Sure it should be legal.  And while we're at it, let's all eat horse, hit the womenz on the head and drag them off to the cave for some sex, kill the guy who looks at you funny and wear his ear as a necklace or maybe shrink his head and carry it around in a sack, kill the baby born down the street because you didn't sire it, write with a stick in the dirt, or just speak in grunts and nods.  


Edited to add that about a month ago I nearly pummeled some as*hole who was walking his dog without a leash and it attacked my somewhat timid Chesapeake.  I kicked the shite out his dog and he had the balls to yell at me.  He changed his mind about me when I got in his face and he saw I was ready to bust him up.    

Attempting to show your own machisimo, or lack of, through your dog indicates to me you have a little dick and an even smaller brain.

I would much rather we go back in time to the old west era and you show me how tough you are.  

I'll be your huckleberry.  See you at noon.

Um  whats wrong with eating horse?  Its actually quite good.  Nothing like thinly sliced smoked horse meat on white bread with butter!!!

Fighting cats would be wrong, too. Where's the hypocrisy in that? I stop cat fights as much as dog fights. In fact, cat fights are even safe to break up when compared to dog fights.

How about hunting with dogs? These are animals that have been bred and trained for one thing only - to chase after an animal such as a bear or mountain lion and hold it at bay by attacking it and getting themselves hurt or killed until the hunter shows up to kill the quarry. If you don't have a problem with making animals endanger themselves in this manner, but you DO have a problem with dogfighting, then you are a hypocrite.

Don't get me wrong, if was starving and the choice came down to eating old paint or dying, it's horse salami sandwiches.  

But, most people consider a horse to be a majestic animal fit to be worked or ridden, not eaten.  That's for cows.  Why?  I don't know.  Maybe because cows are ugly and horses are pretty.  Maybe because the West wasn't won riding cows.  It's for the same reason we westerners don't eat dogs either.    

Every one of you sad sack cocksuckers who aprove of making animals fight for your enjoyment are gutless pussies who get thier kicks out of cruelty to animals.
I would love to see you fuckheads thrown into a ring with someone like tyson and beaten to death. Literally. Anyone who approves of that has got to be so fucked in the head. I went to a bullfight in mexico a decade ago but didnt realize untill I got there they kill the bull. We left early and I still feel ashamed for going. I like the idea of making dogfights freefire zones. How do you sick fucks treat your families? Lets take a couple of your kids and make them fight the neighbors kids to the death as well to rid your gene pool from the earth. Why dont you guys go public and show us how proud you are about this sick shit.

I think Ernie sized up my thoughts on this matter.

I think I would gone a little further by saying that the local authorities should "stage" these "contests" then bomb the building when everyone is inside just to "take out the trash."

How about we have the owners fight to the death, and let the animals watch??  Works for me.

Dog fighting is disgusting, as are the people who are entertained by it.

I just do not see the connection. If we follow your reasoning, then guard dogs, bomb dogs, working dogs, et al would fall into your example. I am not ragging on you-but am just trying to clarify your position so that I better know what you mean.

I think that the point of holding dogs to a high esteem in our culture stems from the fact that we have bred them to be our servants and companions. They have responded with obedience, love, and friendship. They do jobs that we are ineffective/ill-equipped at doing. They have been trained to protect hearth, home, and family. They have been trained to hunt, to heard, to kill, to protect. It is the kinship between man and dog that provides for a place for dogs in the human heart. Dogs love us regardless of what we make for a living, what kind of car we drive, and what the color of our skin is. I have never had the opportunity of owning a dog in my life, but have been around family and friends enough to know what a dog is and what it means in the context of a family. It just seems that some of the most brave and useful purposes that a dog serves falls into your example (K-9, guard dog, bomb dog, family protector, herd dog, hunting dog, etc...).

Just my $0.02

What were you expecting, a wrestling match? [:\]

Pit Bulls are one of the most perfect animals on Earth.
They are beautiful, athletic beasts.
Their loyalty knows no bounds.
Any of the members here, that own a Pit Bull, will attest to this fact.
I own a Pit.
He's the strongest dog in the world.
He runs faster, farther, and swims better than any field dog.

That being said...
...the reason that these dogs are so magnificent, is that they were bred as FIGHTING DOGS.
They are the product of the breeding of generations of champion fighting dogs.

REAL fighting dogs (not "feces covered", abused dogs) are healthy, happy animals.
They are NOT fought to the death.
They are not unsocialable with other animals, or children.
They LIKE to fight, like Greyhounds like to run, and like Blueticks and good Labs like to hunt.

This dog is "Zebo". He's a champion:
[img]http://www.sporting-dog.com/photos/Zebo.jpg[/img]

I would never fight my dog.
BUT dog fighting in and of itself, is not wrong.
Dogfighting that is conducted, as described in the article is barbaric and cruel.

Over thousands of years, we have domesticated and bred the wolf to become the dogs that guard us, help us hunt for food and provide companionship. Dogs have proved remarkably adaptable and we have even trained them to do some remarkable specialized things for us (drug search, guide dogs, rescue dogs etc. etc.). On top of all this, they exhibit a level of loyalty selflessness we could never aspire to.

The question seems to be, do we sanction the idea that we utilize the abilities and traits of the only animal to have given us so much for so little, so that we warp these enviable characteristics so as to enable them to die (or seriously endanger themselves) simply for our amusement and financial gain.

Not only do I believe the answer to be obvious, I also believe that it is equally obvious that anyone (like Crock and his ilk) who would seriously consider such a question to be seriously flawed – psychologically.

Regarding the bull-fighting: It is a gem of  the Spanish (the same sadistic blood-lust culture that gave us El Inquesicion) that DScott did not get quite right:

Before the Matador (killer) ever shows up, we have the guys on horseback with lances that target the muscles that enable the bull to raise or use its horns. They object is to tire, frustrate and seriously weaken the bull for the next guys. These are the valiant little bastards with darts that penetrate the bull's flesh and stay there, moving around with every action of the bull – slowly bleeding away its strength and resolve. By the time the "killer" turns up, the bull has to be goaded to attack. Once the crowd (who would probably buy tickets to watch a time-lapse of Dachau (sp?) has had its fill, the sword is thust into the base of the brain.

Some people (like that pseudo-tough guy, gay Hemmingway) regard it as poetic!

If I have offended anyone, or any group with this post – Tough shit!

Well, I had to think about my position after reading this, and I think the difference is that guard dogs, working dogs, etc, protect human lives, but fighting dogs and hunting dogs are put into danger for sport. I don't see very much of a difference between saying "go fight that other dog so we can see a good fight" and "go fight that bear so we can catch up to you, shoot him, and have a bearskin rug."

stcyr...
You definately didn't offend me. Just because a culture has deemed cruelty to be a form of entertainment, doesn't make it right. It's the mark of a society that has yet to evolve.

Tapping in to not just a basic, reactionary bloodlust, but the ability to see beyond some primal cromagnon urge, and arrive at humane conclusion based on what is right is what separates us from the historical freaks of our own species(The Romans & the collosium, the Inquisition...the list is miles long).

People who don't comprehend the significance of being cruel to animals are either intellectually lazy, disgustingly self absorbed/self important or just flat out too god damn stupid to grasp the importance of the subject.

I'll go one step further, which being Atheist offers me the freedom to do and say this. The notion that some people express that god gave man animals to do with what he pleases runs the spectrum from being sound in reason to being flat out moronic. Food and work have been reasonable uses of many animals, that is understandable, but to accept any form of cruelty as being a part of "gods word" or "intent" is something only a total blithering idiot would accept. To offer that as justification for any form of animal cruelty is truly the mark of a damn fool.

While I would love to argue this point, and to an extent could, given the times we live in, and the excesses to which people have taken hunting (can we say extinction), for sport, I cannot. There are exceptions, however by and large, bears and the like are no longer hunted for food, and clothing, but predominately for sport, and as such, dogs should not be put in harms way. I think most here will agree with me on this, and if not, you are quite right, it is hypocracy.

I know some people who raise cattle that might disagree with you.  About cows being ugly.  That being said they'd agree that they're also yummy. [;)]

Viper Out

NH2112,

I guess, from my point of view, you hit the nail on the head!

Once upon a time on the frontier, bears and cougars were a real threat and the use of dogs, in the tradittional sense of helping in preserving ourselves was so valid a point that no one would argue. However, few would realistically propose that same arguement today.

Consequently, to use dogs to hunt bears etc. is to take advantage of one animal's protective and hunting instinct to hunt down a more primative animal on our behalf.

And it sure as hell don't sound much like Davy Crockett to me with all the high-tech ordinance available, ATV's and GPS together with every ballistic and optic advances known just so we can "...go fight that bear...and get a bearskin rug." Give me a f*cking break!

I was just making a generalization that I think society thinks cows are ugly as opposed to horses.  

Me?  Cows are kind of cute, but I wouldn't date one.  LOL.

In sum, animal fighting is a base, useless endeavor that only serves to excite primitive bloodlust.  Let's rise above it for we are the stewards of God's helpless creatures.