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Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:38:25 AM EDT
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Further, your contention that this is a little worse than the flu is just way the fuck off. When is that last time they were burning bodies in the street in India due to a flu outbreak? We actually don't give the flu enough respect as a society, but COVID is easily 5x as bad and its killed nearly 600K despite all the transmission controls in place. Whether you want to look at the medical literature (I do) or care for COVID patients first hand (I do), this isn't "just the flu."
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My girlfriend is a nurse and would 100% agree with you by the way.  

I look at it that India's strain is an unusual strain like the 1918 flu.  But for most of us it was just another thing you can catch.  

I know two people who legitimately died from COVID.  Thing is after a year or so I know at least 20 people who experienced either mild to no symptoms (like me), or were sick for a few days and got over it.

I also know we are in a brave new world where it's with us forever and will probably be added to the yearly flu shot.

I still ain't gettin' the shot until it's been around for a few years and is proven not to have long-term adverse effects.  That's it.  No argument necessary there no matter how bad the disease is or how good the vaccine is.  I will not trust it for at least a few years.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:39:04 AM EDT
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So are you telling us to "SHUT IT DOWN"?
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So are you telling us to "SHUT IT DOWN"?

Actually I'm saying the exact OPPOSITE! Open everything, encourage everyone to vaccinate, put EMTs in front of every bar with drink tickets and a sign that says "FREE SHOT WITH YOUR COVID SHOT!"


Prove to me THAT isn't true and I'll go along with more of their suggestions.

Public health, vaccination, and herd immunity are corollaries to the tragedy of the commons where an individual's action affects others. That's why schools can require a measles shot.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:42:50 AM EDT
And I keep reading article after article that the worst outbreaks and/or resurgences occur in the places with the tightest lockdowns.

Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:43:36 AM EDT
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"Died from" or "died after they had it"? Seems like the same discrepancy that was used in counting COVID deaths. Some people had it when they died, some people died from it yet there was no distinction in the reporting.
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Very, very, very much this.

Every once in a while the halo slips a bit on one of our angels and they tell a whopper.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:45:17 AM EDT
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What about the 99.9% of people who received the vaccine and didn’t die? Should we shut down all vaccinations for .1%?
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How about not trying to make them mandatory, or coercing big business to try and do it for you?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:45:28 AM EDT
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The under reporting of adverse events is for mild shit like slight fever, rash, etc.
Deaths are more likely to be over reported. Also, plenty of people died after being vaccinated but not from the vaccine, just like a lot of people died with COVID and not of COVID.
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Exactly right. Why can't the standard for "dying WITH covid" be the same as "dying WITH vaccine"?

Our medical overlord here in Illinois specifically said anyone who dies and is covid positive is a covid death. Anyone who had a positive test within 60 days counts as a covid death. The question was brought up regarding a motorcycle crash. Dude had previously tested positive for covid. He was a covid death. As far as I know George Floyd was a covid death.

However, covid fear-mongering is the left's game so their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:46:35 AM EDT
Having a friend watch his father die in front of him because of the "vaccine", it gets a nope from me.  

Anyone with an ounce of logical thinking should be able to put the pieces together.  Rushed vaccines with minimal testing time.  Governments pausing uses of various vaccines due to to many bad side effects and potential deaths and you should see that the "vaccines" aren't ready for use.  Very few healthy people died from covid.  a lot more healthy people are dying from the "vaccines".
I'll take my chances with covid.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:47:27 AM EDT
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New virus with a ~99.5% survivability rate - eh, no big deal.

New vaccine with a 99.997% (and probably higher) survivability rate - WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE - DON'T TAKE THE EVIL VACCINE!!!!
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Or take it if you want to, but don't force/shame/buy anyone into getting it
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:49:26 AM EDT
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"Prove to me THAT isn't true and I'll go along with more of their suggestions."


Public health, vaccination, and herd immunity are corollaries to the tragedy of the commons where an individual's action affects others. That's why schools can require a measles shot.
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What I asked for was proof that those in charge aren't simply in it for themselves. If you can prove that these publicly funded parasites telling us what to do actually care about us, then they might have my ear.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:49:37 AM EDT
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Rocks have killed more people than my gun.  Same with electricity, sand, dogs, balloons, gravity, water, garage doors, plants, carbon monoxide, the sea, fish hooks, darkness, etc.
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What if you have milsurps dating back to the 1860's?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:49:38 AM EDT
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Would love to have that on a bumper snicker.

Tucker Carlson Shatters Media Silence  Why are thousands of people dying from Covid Vaccine?

Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two  that's an average of 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23. We don't have numbers past that, we're not quite up to date. But we can assume that another 360 people have died in the 12 days since. That is a total of 3,722 deaths. Almost four thousand people died after getting the COVID vaccines. The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that  perhaps vastly higher.
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The data we just cited come from the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System  VAERS  which is managed by the CDC and the FDA. VARES has received a lot of criticism over the years, some of it founded. Some critics have argued for a long time that VARES undercounts vaccine injuries. A report submitted to the Department of Health and Human Services in 2010 concluded that "fewer than one percent of vaccine adverse events are reported" by the VARES system. Fewer than one percent. So what is the real number of people who apparently have been killed or injured by the vaccine? Well, we don't know that number. Nobody does, and we're not going to speculate about it. But it's clear that what is happening now, for whatever reason, is not even close to normal. It's not even close to what we've seen in previous years with previous vaccines.
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Every flu season, we give influenza shots to more than 160 million Americans. Every year, a relatively small number of people seem to die after getting those shots. To be precise, in 2019, that number was 203 people. The year before, it was 119. In 2017, a total of 85 people died from the flu shot.
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3,362 is more people than died on 9/11 (a little over 2,900), and people will not stop dying from the shot.

So, get the vaccine?  From me that'd be a NOPE, NOPE, and NOPE.


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LMFAO. Ah the simple folk of GD. Always entertaining.

Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:49:52 AM EDT
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Quoted:
New virus with a ~99.5% survivability rate - eh, no big deal.

New vaccine with a 99.997% (and probably higher) survivability rate - WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE - DON'T TAKE THE EVIL VACCINE!!!!
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The survivability rate from covid is way higher than 99.5% for people that wouldn't have died catching any other viral infection because they are fat unhealthy slobs.
Not everyone will be exposed to or get covid.  When they mandate vaccines EVERYONE is exposed to the risk.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:53:06 AM EDT
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I look at it that India's strain is an unusual strain like the 1918 flu.  But for most of us it was just another thing you can catch.
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I look at it that India's strain is an unusual strain like the 1918 flu.  But for most of us it was just another thing you can catch.

India's strain isn't that different, and it is coming here.  Like 1918, you get new strains by having uncontrolled replication of the virus in huge populations. Vaccination stops this.

I also know we are in a brave new world where it's with us forever and will probably be added to the yearly flu shot.

Maybe, but I don't think it will be in yearly shots because COVID just doesn't have the antigenically distinct number of strains vs flu nor does COVID mutate like flu in terms of the immune system's ability to recognize (antigenic drift). Possible there will be a booster, but I don't think there will be an ongoing need for yearly boosters.

Different viruses behave differently.

Read that book I recommended, The Great Influenza, by Barry. Or have your girl read it... she'll love it.

I still ain't gettin' the shot until it's been around for a few years and is proven not to have long-term adverse effects.  That's it.  No argument necessary there no matter how bad the disease is or how good the vaccine is.  I will not trust it for at least a few years.

If that is your outlook fine, but your absolutist view is not really a logically take or relative risk. People suck at analyzing relative risk, the vast majority, smart people.... that's why we have a small number of people who do it professionally (for example, insurance actuaries, epidemiologists, etc).

It's all math in the end and then you interpret the math including the unknowns and make a judgment call.

If you think there is no level of risk of some disease, its negative effects, and your chance of getting it that you would judge that risk a better bet than the best vaccine with the best effectiveness and safety profile just because it hasn't been around for "a few years" then I suggest you are grossly overweighting the unknown late onset complication risk of vaccine despite everything we know about long term risk of all other vaccines... which is that there is almost no example of long term late onset complications because vaccines are made to generate an immediate and short lived reaction whereby the immune system "trains" itself without the body having to suffer infection.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:53:35 AM EDT
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I understand you haven't been vaccinated and don't have any personal experience with it, but we were all given a multi page document covering the vaccines status under the emergency use authorization.  Trump was pushing the the Covid vaccines under operation Warp Speed for months all over the news.  It's not like people don't understand it was rushed and pushed as fast as possible.
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Most people have no clue.  They think if the doctor can give it to them it's safe.  I have to listen to my inlaws talk about how safe it is because it's been approved to be used.  When I try to explain to the them that it's approved for emergency use and not FDA approved they look at me like a I have a 3rd eye.
I have no problem if you want to get it.  But white knighting telling others they should get it is on the level of Democrats trying to run peoples lives.  
If you get the vaccine and I don't what do you care?  You're vaccinated right, you can't get it from me correct?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:58:02 AM EDT
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What I asked for was proof that those in charge aren't simply in it for themselves. If you can prove that these publicly funded parasites telling us what to do actually care about us, then they might have my ear.
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Quoted:


"Prove to me THAT isn't true and I'll go along with more of their suggestions."


Public health, vaccination, and herd immunity are corollaries to the tragedy of the commons where an individual's action affects others. That's why schools can require a measles shot.


What I asked for was proof that those in charge aren't simply in it for themselves. If you can prove that these publicly funded parasites telling us what to do actually care about us, then they might have my ear.

I can't prove that. I also can't prove that your garden gnomes don't come alive at night to broadcast your location to anal probing aliens.

What I can do is balance healthy skepticism with the medical evidence. Epidemiology has broadly understood concepts and vaccination is a key tool. We have gobs of evidence about these vaccines and this disease. Vaccines are a good thing, especially here. We've pulled off the medical equivalent of the Apollo Project.

Some people think the moon landings were a hoax. I probably cannot change their minds either.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:58:41 AM EDT
I hadn't realized Tucker Carlson was a FUCKING MORON. I'm surprised his brain is functioning enough to power a cardiovascular system.

If this what his clinically dead brain is capable of, we don't want him on our side.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:59:14 AM EDT
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And I keep reading article after article that the worst outbreaks and/or resurgences occur in the places with the tightest lockdowns.

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Correlation v. causation.  It could be that both the tightest lockdowns and worst outbreaks are caused by a common factor, such as high population density.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 11:59:17 AM EDT
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People still haven't realized that they can choose not to get one and leave those alone that want to. Just like those who don't want a gun don't have to buy one but...
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People that don't want it have realized that.  The people that want it haven't and need to shut the fuck up about it and leave the people that don't want it alone.
The problem is governments and businesses are going to force you to take it.  The businesses/employers won't hold you down and jab the needle in your arm, but they will fire you for not taking it.  
They will not leave you alone if you don't want to take it.  That's why so many are against this.  Having papers to show you have the vaccine?  countless states and countries coming up with "passports".  We were told for 4 years trump was a nazi, but now we have democrats and leftist governments across the global chomping at the bit to introduce Nazi/Soviet style travel documents.  
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:00:35 PM EDT
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India's strain isn't that different, and it is coming here.  Like 1918, you get new strains by having uncontrolled replication of the virus in huge populations. Vaccination stops this.


Maybe, but I don't think it will be in yearly shots because COVID just doesn't have the antigenically distinct number of strains vs flu nor does COVID mutate like flu in terms of the immune system's ability to recognize (antigenic drift). Possible there will be a booster, but I don't think there will be an ongoing need for yearly boosters.

Different viruses behave differently.

Read that book I recommended, The Great Influenza, by Barry. Or have your girl read it... she'll love it.


If that is your outlook fine, but your absolutist view is not really a logically take or relative risk. People suck at analyzing relative risk, the vast majority, smart people.... that's why we have a small number of people who do it professionally (for example, insurance actuaries, epidemiologists, etc).

It's all math in the end and then you interpret the math including the unknowns and make a judgment call.

If you think there is no level of risk of some disease, its negative effects, and your chance of getting it that you would judge that risk a better bet than the best vaccine with the best effectiveness and safety profile just because it hasn't been around for "a few years" then I suggest you are grossly overweighting the unknown late onset complication risk of vaccine despite everything we know about long term risk of all other vaccines... which is that there is almost no example of long term late onset complications because vaccines are made to generate an immediate and short lived reaction whereby the immune system "trains" itself without the body having to suffer infection.
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I look at it that India's strain is an unusual strain like the 1918 flu.  But for most of us it was just another thing you can catch.

India's strain isn't that different, and it is coming here.  Like 1918, you get new strains by having uncontrolled replication of the virus in huge populations. Vaccination stops this.

I also know we are in a brave new world where it's with us forever and will probably be added to the yearly flu shot.

Maybe, but I don't think it will be in yearly shots because COVID just doesn't have the antigenically distinct number of strains vs flu nor does COVID mutate like flu in terms of the immune system's ability to recognize (antigenic drift). Possible there will be a booster, but I don't think there will be an ongoing need for yearly boosters.

Different viruses behave differently.

Read that book I recommended, The Great Influenza, by Barry. Or have your girl read it... she'll love it.

I still ain't gettin' the shot until it's been around for a few years and is proven not to have long-term adverse effects.  That's it.  No argument necessary there no matter how bad the disease is or how good the vaccine is.  I will not trust it for at least a few years.

If that is your outlook fine, but your absolutist view is not really a logically take or relative risk. People suck at analyzing relative risk, the vast majority, smart people.... that's why we have a small number of people who do it professionally (for example, insurance actuaries, epidemiologists, etc).

It's all math in the end and then you interpret the math including the unknowns and make a judgment call.

If you think there is no level of risk of some disease, its negative effects, and your chance of getting it that you would judge that risk a better bet than the best vaccine with the best effectiveness and safety profile just because it hasn't been around for "a few years" then I suggest you are grossly overweighting the unknown late onset complication risk of vaccine despite everything we know about long term risk of all other vaccines... which is that there is almost no example of long term late onset complications because vaccines are made to generate an immediate and short lived reaction whereby the immune system "trains" itself without the body having to suffer infection.

Please point to all the previously used mRNA vaccines and vaccines using only part of the viral signature.

This is unchartered territory and we don't know where it goes.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:00:55 PM EDT
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...Very few healthy people died from covid.  a lot more healthy people are dying from the "vaccines"....
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Let's see some actual numbers to support that claim.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:01:03 PM EDT
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If you think there is no level of risk of some disease, its negative effects, and your chance of getting it that you would judge that risk a better bet than the best vaccine with the best effectiveness and safety profile just because it hasn't been around for "a few years" then I suggest you are grossly overweighting the unknown late onset complication risk of vaccine despite everything we know about long term risk of all other vaccines... which is that there is almost no example of long term late onset complications because vaccines are made to generate an immediate and short lived reaction whereby the immune system "trains" itself without the body having to suffer infection.
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And  yet, a couple of the vaccines have already shown to produce sometimes fatal blood clots, a complication bad enough that some countries pulled them from use.  What else is going to show up?  We just don't know.  And that's why I prefer to refrain, at least for the time being, thank you.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:02:42 PM EDT
The fact that people are taking the vaccine outrages me!

I'll take to social media and engage in a heated debate with people I don't know in hopes of changing their minds!

What's wrong with you! Gawdamn it!
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:03:21 PM EDT
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 We were told for 4 years trump was a nazi, but now we have democrats and leftist governments across the global chomping at the bit to introduce Nazi/Soviet style travel documents.  
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You just won the gawddamned internet.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:06:54 PM EDT
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People that don't want it have realized that.
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People that don't want it have realized that.

You are posting in a thread that shows that isn't case, that people who don't want the vaccine have a desire to have their decision validated and positions adopted by others. What is there to gain I ask you?

Those who support the vaccine naturally understand that the total benefit of people being vaccinated is greater than the sum of individual benefits, so everyone wins by encouraging others.

governments across the global chomping at the bit to introduce Nazi/Soviet style travel documents.  

There are a huge number of countries that require proof of certain vaccinations to enter. Try going to a bunch of desirable countries without proof of your Yellow Fever vaccination if you've traveled through Yellow Fever endemic areas. They won't let you in. Proof of vaccination to attend school has been legal and the norm for ages. This is nothing new, and nothing Nazi. It's common sense public health and plenty of people frothing at the mouth over the idea of having to show proof of COVID vaccination would not hesitate (or have not hesitated!) to get required vaccines to travel.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:10:12 PM EDT
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I can't prove that. I also can't prove that your garden gnomes don't come alive at night to broadcast your location to anal probing aliens.

What I can do is balance healthy skepticism with the medical evidence. Epidemiology has broadly understood concepts and vaccination is a key tool. We have gobs of evidence about these vaccines and this disease. Vaccines are a good thing, especially here. We've pulled off the medical equivalent of the Apollo Project.

Some people think the moon landings were a hoax. I probably cannot change their minds either.
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Balance is fine. Since you were taking about the Nazi references earlier, what did the scientists of that Era think of Eugenics?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:11:17 PM EDT
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Sounds suspiciously like "Arbeit macht frei".  Maybe we should put a sign above all vaccination outlets "Vaccination makes free."
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Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:11:38 PM EDT
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There are a huge number of countries that require proof of certain vaccinations to enter. Try going to a bunch of desirable countries without proof of your Yellow Fever vaccination if you've traveled through Yellow Fever endemic areas. They won't let you in. Proof of vaccination to attend school has been legal and the norm for ages. This is nothing new, and nothing Nazi. It's common sense public health and plenty of people frothing at the mouth over the idea of having to show proof of COVID vaccination would not hesitate (or have not hesitated!) to get required vaccines to travel.
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When you need to show your vax card to shop at Walmart,  you will see his point, though.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:12:00 PM EDT
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People still haven't realized that they can choose not to get one and leave those alone that want to. Just like those who don't want a gun don't have to buy one but...
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What about the people that choose to get one then won't leave those alone that don't want to?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:12:01 PM EDT
The numbers are only what’s being reported, mainly people who died right after getting it or within a few days, nursing home patients under care, etc. People who died weeks later from heart attacks and strokes, not counted. This is not even factoring in long term health problems causes by the “vaccine” which they’ll deny to no end. Better to just abstain and try to be healthy. Get your heart right with God and have no fear.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:14:21 PM EDT
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When you need to show your vax card to shop at Walmart,  you will see his point, though.
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There are a huge number of countries that require proof of certain vaccinations to enter. Try going to a bunch of desirable countries without proof of your Yellow Fever vaccination if you've traveled through Yellow Fever endemic areas. They won't let you in. Proof of vaccination to attend school has been legal and the norm for ages. This is nothing new, and nothing Nazi. It's common sense public health and plenty of people frothing at the mouth over the idea of having to show proof of COVID vaccination would not hesitate (or have not hesitated!) to get required vaccines to travel.


When you need to show your vax card to shop at Walmart,  you will see his point, though.

Nobody is going to require a vax card to shop at Walmart. Nobody respectable is proposing this because it isn't justified. Hyperbolic hysteria doesn't not strengthen your point.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:15:02 PM EDT
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Your Vaccine Has Killed More People Than My Gun
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No, MY vaccine killed no one. That is a proper comparison.  You are trying to compare ONE gun to all vaccines, kinda like what the libs say about ONE guns that is used to kill someone.  

And oh, cool, another loser anti-vax thread.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:15:06 PM EDT
Jesus H Fucking Christ.

Correlation is not causation.

Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:15:34 PM EDT
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I can't prove that. I also can't prove that your garden gnomes don't come alive at night to broadcast your location to anal probing aliens.

What I can do is balance healthy skepticism with the medical evidence. Epidemiology has broadly understood concepts and vaccination is a key tool. We have gobs of evidence about these vaccines and this disease. Vaccines are a good thing, especially here. We've pulled off the medical equivalent of the Apollo Project.

Some people think the moon landings were a hoax. I probably cannot change their minds either.
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Listen, Mr. Soapbox, I don't care what your argument is.  If you are in medicine, then you know that patient autonomy is a bedrock principle.  You cannot and should not be forcing people to be vaccinated who have serious reservations about taking it.  The math makes no difference to the patient who dies or develops ascending paralysis after vaccination.  Furthermore, stop calling it a vaccine.  It is gene therapy, plain and simple, and nobody I know has discussed what happens to the mRNA once in the cell and exposed to possible reverse transcriptases.  If you think you are at high risk of death or morbidity from COVID, then take the vaccines.  That is your choice, embrace it.  Leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:15:56 PM EDT
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No, MY vaccine killed no one. That is a proper comparison.  You are trying to compare ONE gun to all vaccines, kinda like what the libs say about ONE guns that is used to kill someone.  
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Your Vaccine Has Killed More People Than My Gun


No, MY vaccine killed no one. That is a proper comparison.  You are trying to compare ONE gun to all vaccines, kinda like what the libs say about ONE guns that is used to kill someone.  

YEP
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:16:52 PM EDT
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Correlation v. causation.  It could be that both the tightest lockdowns and worst outbreaks are caused by a common factor, such as high population density.
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Or maybe human factors make stopping the transmission impossible.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:17:48 PM EDT
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Nobody is going to require a vax card to shop at Walmart. Nobody respectable is proposing this because it isn't justified. Hyperbolic hysteria doesn't not strengthen your point.
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There are a huge number of countries that require proof of certain vaccinations to enter. Try going to a bunch of desirable countries without proof of your Yellow Fever vaccination if you've traveled through Yellow Fever endemic areas. They won't let you in. Proof of vaccination to attend school has been legal and the norm for ages. This is nothing new, and nothing Nazi. It's common sense public health and plenty of people frothing at the mouth over the idea of having to show proof of COVID vaccination would not hesitate (or have not hesitated!) to get required vaccines to travel.


When you need to show your vax card to shop at Walmart,  you will see his point, though.

Nobody is going to require a vax card to shop at Walmart. Nobody respectable is proposing this because it isn't justified. Hyperbolic hysteria doesn't not strengthen your point.



Don't be so sure it won't happen.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:21:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:23:03 PM EDT
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Or maybe human factors make stopping the transmission impossible.
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Correlation v. causation.  It could be that both the tightest lockdowns and worst outbreaks are caused by a common factor, such as high population density.

Or maybe human factors make stopping the transmission impossible.

I strongly believe that is true.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:25:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:26:27 PM EDT
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People still haven't realized that they can choose not to get one and leave those alone that want to. Just like those who don't want a gun don't have to buy one but...
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You got that backwards.

It should read, "People still haven't realized that they can choose to get one and leave those alone that don't want to."

It's the pushing of people to get a cvax which is manifesting the resistance, not the other way around. Your post is a great example of the perversion of thought processes in the world today.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:27:45 PM EDT
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There is distinction in the data once you dive in. As it turns out, the vast majority of people died With COVID actually did die Of COVID related complications (respiratory failure/pneumonia/other sepsis organ dysfunction). 580K deaths for 35 million cases, or about 1,700 deaths per 100K for COVID. And remember most of those 35M didn't die but many more than 580K did get sick, suffer, and some are disabled. The reason the numbers aren't higher is all of those painful restrictions to limit transmission.

Is it so for people died after vaccine? 3362 died of the nearly 150 MILLION people who have gotten the vaccine over the last 6 months? That's 2 per 100K, but was it due to vaccine? How many people out of 150 million are expected to die anyway? Yes many got it recently, but remember also that the vaccine was most focused on the old and unhealthy as priority early recipients. Statistically you expect an annual death rate of 800 per 100K in the US per year for all causes.

Vaccine then death: 2 per 100K most of which were likely not vaccine related.
COVID then death: 1700 per 100K most of which were due to COVID.

The vaccine has saves an incredibly high multiple of lives vs lost... and the vaccine will make the restrictions go away.
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"Died from" or "died after they had it"? Seems like the same discrepancy that was used in counting COVID deaths. Some people had it when they died, some people died from it yet there was no distinction in the reporting.

There is distinction in the data once you dive in. As it turns out, the vast majority of people died With COVID actually did die Of COVID related complications (respiratory failure/pneumonia/other sepsis organ dysfunction). 580K deaths for 35 million cases, or about 1,700 deaths per 100K for COVID. And remember most of those 35M didn't die but many more than 580K did get sick, suffer, and some are disabled. The reason the numbers aren't higher is all of those painful restrictions to limit transmission.

Is it so for people died after vaccine? 3362 died of the nearly 150 MILLION people who have gotten the vaccine over the last 6 months? That's 2 per 100K, but was it due to vaccine? How many people out of 150 million are expected to die anyway? Yes many got it recently, but remember also that the vaccine was most focused on the old and unhealthy as priority early recipients. Statistically you expect an annual death rate of 800 per 100K in the US per year for all causes.

Vaccine then death: 2 per 100K most of which were likely not vaccine related.
COVID then death: 1700 per 100K most of which were due to COVID.

The vaccine has saves an incredibly high multiple of lives vs lost... and the vaccine will make the restrictions go away.



The vaccine doesn't even make covid go away.  The most vaccinated places in the world are seeing spikes.  I don't believe that restrictions had an effect.  There were spikes that corelated with stay orders.  This is all bullshit.  Not that covid isn't real, but it's not what they are telling us.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:28:21 PM EDT
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Please point to all the previously used mRNA vaccines and vaccines using only part of the viral signature.

This is unchartered territory and we don't know where it goes.
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Let's see what happens next cold/flu season.  It could be very bad for the faxxed.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:30:50 PM EDT
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You cannot and should not be forcing people to be vaccinated who have serious reservations about taking it.
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You cannot and should not be forcing people to be vaccinated who have serious reservations about taking it.

I agree, as this has only EUA. We do compel people to get other vaccinations some exceptions allowed.

The math makes no difference to the patient who dies or develops ascending paralysis after vaccination.

Absolutely. If you have a 1 in a million side effect, that 1 person experiences the full awfulness of it. The other 999,999 don't.

Furthermore, stop calling it a vaccine.  It is gene therapy, plain and simple,

Vaccines produce acquired immunity. That is what the COVID mRNA vaccines do. They "train" the immune system to attack a surface protein found on SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19). Some of the other vaccines out there are inactivated SARS-CoV-2 virus, or just proteins from the virus.

Gene therapy involves genetic MODIFICATIONs of the patient's cells. That does NOT happen with mRNA vaccines.

mRNA does not homologously recombine with DNA - the change from DNA (Thymidine) to RNA (Uracil) prevents the proper hydrogen bonding from occurring. Moreover, RNA translation occurs in the cytoplasm and the rough ER, not in the nucleus where the DNA is!

mRNA vaccines DO NOT modify DNA.

Now if you want to have a conversation about DNA viral vector vaccines and potential unintended recombination, we can, but we can also talk about how most of our DNA is inactive viral remnants.

and nobody I know has discussed what happens to the mRNA once in the cell and exposed to possible reverse transcriptases.

What if pigs suddenly fly for some inexplicable reason? Will change the adverse effects?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:34:06 PM EDT
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"even the worst persecution starts with something seemingly innocent"
has absolutely nothing to do with vaccination! Further, your contention that this is a little worse than the flu is just way the fuck off. When is that last time they were burning bodies in the street in India due to a flu outbreak? We actually don't give the flu enough respect as a society, but COVID is easily 5x as bad and its killed nearly 600K despite all the transmission controls in place. Whether you want to look at the medical literature (I do) or care for COVID patients first hand (I do), this isn't "just the flu."

As far as vaccines. How do you think we got rid of Smallpox? Almost eliminated Measles, Polio, etc... vaccines that are mandated. (COVID vaccine isn't)

Vaccination shouldn't be political, but even 100 years ago there were antivaxxers raging against smallpox vaccination.

We don't give the smallpox vaccine anymore because the disease is extinct.
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India has terrible sanitation and care standards, as you know.  Your use of term "anti-vaxxers" tells me what I need to know.  You just made it political.  The argument that we should just all accept the "vaccine" without question and just believe the system has our best interest in mind it stupid.  I do not believe in the lock downs and I do not believe that healthy people, who are not elderly, need the "vaccine".  I also do not believe ANYTHING that is in the news.  I don't know why people think that there is anything they can report in a factual way.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:34:16 PM EDT
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The vaccine doesn't even make covid go away.  The most vaccinated places in the world are seeing spikes.
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Bullshit. All the data I've seen shows decreased infection rates in the vaccinated groups. We do see some increase in cases in non-vaccinated persons as restrictions are eased early as vaccination is still proceeding into lower risk populations. We see that in CO where it is now ages 20-60 who are the primary hospital cases because those over 60 are mostly vaccinated. Until vaccination, it was the old people in the hospital. Relaxing restrictions makes sense as you vaccinate your highest risk groups and won't overwhelm the healthcare system. Continued encouragement of vaccination also makes sense.

But you are welcome to provide some legitimate sources backing your claim.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:36:17 PM EDT
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The first people to get the vaccine were elderly people in nursing homes. Most were ready to die in the next year or two anyway.

Some of you anti vaccination crowd are as insane as the triple masking wearing DUMBocrats. If you have ever better to Africa or India even before Covid you had a shit load of vaccines before you could travel there.
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I don't think you've been to either country.  I have been to some 26 countries as of now and I have not have to have a single vaccine to go to any of them.  Zero.  I have been to India, several countries in Africa, several in SA, and several in Asia, among others.  None require vaccines for anyone coming from the US.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:37:03 PM EDT
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Listen, Mr. Soapbox, I don't care what your argument is.  If you are in medicine, then you know that patient autonomy is a bedrock principle.  You cannot and should not be forcing people to be vaccinated who have serious reservations about taking it.  The math makes no difference to the patient who dies or develops ascending paralysis after vaccination.  Furthermore, stop calling it a vaccine.  It is gene therapy, plain and simple, and nobody I know has discussed what happens to the mRNA once in the cell and exposed to possible reverse transcriptases.  If you think you are at high risk of death or morbidity from COVID, then take the vaccines.  That is your choice, embrace it.  Leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
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Your newsletter, may I subscribe to it?
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:37:48 PM EDT
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Don't be so sure it won't happen.
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There are a huge number of countries that require proof of certain vaccinations to enter. Try going to a bunch of desirable countries without proof of your Yellow Fever vaccination if you've traveled through Yellow Fever endemic areas. They won't let you in. Proof of vaccination to attend school has been legal and the norm for ages. This is nothing new, and nothing Nazi. It's common sense public health and plenty of people frothing at the mouth over the idea of having to show proof of COVID vaccination would not hesitate (or have not hesitated!) to get required vaccines to travel.


When you need to show your vax card to shop at Walmart,  you will see his point, though.

Nobody is going to require a vax card to shop at Walmart. Nobody respectable is proposing this because it isn't justified. Hyperbolic hysteria doesn't not strengthen your point.



Don't be so sure it won't happen.
This, they elected a fucking potato for president, I wouldn't be shocked by anything they do.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:41:50 PM EDT
With regard to India, I fully believe there is a genetic component to how lethal the virus is.  I firmly believe the Chinese were and are working on a DNA-based biological weapon that targets specific ethniciities.  I have heard, and don't know how true it is, that Hispanic and African-American victims of COVID are really hit HARD.  I know of only two people who died:  both Hispanic.  White people I've talked to mostly had mild cases--not 100%, but if you had to generalize...

And get this:  COVID is just the first Chicom attempt at "accidentally" releasing a genetically-targeted virus.  I will be proven right.
Link Posted: 5/7/2021 12:42:03 PM EDT
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Don't be so sure it won't happen.
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There are a huge number of countries that require proof of certain vaccinations to enter. Try going to a bunch of desirable countries without proof of your Yellow Fever vaccination if you've traveled through Yellow Fever endemic areas. They won't let you in. Proof of vaccination to attend school has been legal and the norm for ages. This is nothing new, and nothing Nazi. It's common sense public health and plenty of people frothing at the mouth over the idea of having to show proof of COVID vaccination would not hesitate (or have not hesitated!) to get required vaccines to travel.


When you need to show your vax card to shop at Walmart,  you will see his point, though.

Nobody is going to require a vax card to shop at Walmart. Nobody respectable is proposing this because it isn't justified. Hyperbolic hysteria doesn't not strengthen your point.



Don't be so sure it won't happen.

Oh I'm pretty fucking sure. You are less so. What's your point? If that is the direction things go, it is gonna be a different conversation.
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