Would you if you could: Open VS Conceal Carry - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would you if you could: Open VS Conceal Carry (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:46:42 PM EDT

[#1]

I open carry whenever i am out in public, meaning walking my dog.

If I am going out into stores and the like, I CC for the sake of not being bothered.

In VA you must OC if you go to anywhere that serves alcohol, so I do there as well.

Everyone should SUPPORT OC and those that do, doesn't mean you HAVE to OC yourself.

I think there are tradeoffs and benefits to both sides of the coin, I don't see one as being anymore or anyless sound than the other.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:48:17 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You're an easy target if you open carry.

Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

I'm just wondering when the last time one of these people said, "I took out the OC people first, then headed on to the CCW, then finished up with the unarmed".

Honestly, does your brain really work like that? I

If someone bursts into a room to gun everyone down in sight. Who are they going to shoot first? The guy/gal who clearly is carrying a gun.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:49:45 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're an easy target if you open carry.

Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

I'm just wondering when the last time one of these people said, "I took out the OC people first, then headed on to the CCW, then finished up with the unarmed".

Honestly, does your brain really work like that? I

If someone bursts into a room to gun everyone down in sight. Who are they going to shoot first? The guy/gal who clearly is carrying a gun.

You honestly think someone who is going to mow down a room of people will take inventory first of who has and doesn't have a gun?

Lets be honest, the only place that happens is "gun free zones"

Now, back to reality.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:51:00 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Would you open carry in public if you were allowed to by law? If not, why?

I am allowed to by law. I choose to carry concealed.

Why? Because open carry requires a severely heightened state of situational awareness that I am not guaranteed to be in 100% of the time. You have to be switched on enough not just to notice people, but to notice who is noticing that you're packing. That is a mindset that is FAR beyond the capability of most who carry a gun...even if they have a badge on their chest. The other night I was behind a couple of police officers in the stop 'n rob who were absolutely clueless that I was there or that I was armed...and I was wearing a Beretta t-shirt and a Pistol-Training.com hat. I had no intention of harming them, but had I been so inclined both would have been dead before they could have done anything about it.

Their uniforms and openly carried firearm let me know everything about them from a good distance away before they had any chance to know that I was even around.

They are doubtlessly good guys in general and good cops, but their situational awareness sucked ass. Speaking purely on a tactical level, you will find that most of the switched on armed professionals prefer to carry concealed in most situations. I've met and trained with guys who worked in elite military units where they kill people for a living. When they are not actively killing people they are training to kill people. In their daily life (at home, not in the field) they carried concealed and they didn't run around in a bunch of gear that announced that they were a member of go-fast unit X. This would be what I would refer to as a "clue".

I do occasionally open carry, but it's when I am hunting or on the range or something of that nature. As I go about my daily life I try to stay as low profile as possible.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:52:37 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're an easy target if you open carry.

Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

I'm just wondering when the last time one of these people said, "I took out the OC people first, then headed on to the CCW, then finished up with the unarmed".

Honestly, does your brain really work like that? I

If someone bursts into a room to gun everyone down in sight. Who are they going to shoot first? The guy/gal who clearly is carrying a gun.

You honestly think someone who is going to mow down a room of people will take inventory first of who has and doesn't have a gun?

Lets be honest, the only place that happens is "gun free zones"

Now, back to reality.

You sure about that?

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:53:18 PM EDT

[#6]

One can open carry in Colorado, except Denver county, but no one ever does. I did it once into a Subway with no problem. I would rather conceal but I don't have the permit.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:53:50 PM EDT

[#7]

I OC all the time.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:54:19 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
You honestly think someone who is going to mow down a room of people will take inventory first of who has and doesn't have a gun?

Yes, they will. To assume that active shooters do not do any recon of an area before they open up is foolish. Several have done exactly that. If they see you with the weapon, you'll damn sure be the first person they shoot at.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:55:13 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You honestly think someone who is going to mow down a room of people will take inventory first of who has and doesn't have a gun?

Yes, they will. To assume that active shooters do not do any recon of an area before they open up is foolish. Several have done exactly that. If they see you with the weapon, you'll damn sure be the first person they shoot at.

Or they'll wait five minutes until you leave. Either can be said.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:55:33 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're an easy target if you open carry.

Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

I'm just wondering when the last time one of these people said, "I took out the OC people first, then headed on to the CCW, then finished up with the unarmed".

Honestly, does your brain really work like that? I

If someone bursts into a room to gun everyone down in sight. Who are they going to shoot first? The guy/gal who clearly is carrying a gun.

I don't know about you, but if someone bursts into the room mowing people down I'm clearing leather too with my IWB.

disclaimer: unless for some unbelievable reason I'm in a room full of liberals. Very unlikely to happen though. But if it did, I'd exit stage right unless I had no choice.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:55:57 PM EDT

[#11]

Most folks, Like JW777 stated, suck at situational awareness. That said, I'd carry concealed for a very practical reason. OC tends t make you an idiot magnet. I'm just not that desperate for attention.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:56:50 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Or they'll wait five minutes until you leave. Either can be said.

Yes, it's possible that they'll wait until you leave. Open carry DOES act as a deterrent to SOME criminals...but not all. The ones who are not deterred by the sight of your weapon are the dangerous motherfuckers whom you are going to have to shoot to stop...only now they know you're armed and they can wait for an opening.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:57:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You honestly think someone who is going to mow down a room of people will take inventory first of who has and doesn't have a gun?

Yes, they will. To assume that active shooters do not do any recon of an area before they open up is foolish. Several have done exactly that. If they see you with the weapon, you'll damn sure be the first person they shoot at.

acceptable.

but, you act as if "mass shootings" are a common place and that is the reason to not open carry? i would venture to say your common street mugging, where criminals are looking for easy targets would be a reason TO open carry.

both have cons and pros. I don't see why people openly dismiss open carry. it has its advantages and its disadvantages.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:58:15 PM EDT

[#14]

I can and do open carry at times. Dress attire for work is a polo tucked in and slacks, hard to conceal in that. I usually untuck and cover it up if running errands after work.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:58:23 PM EDT

[#15]

I support open carry but wouldn't even if it became legal where I live. Why? With CC I keep those that would do me harm as ignorant as possible. The less info they have, the better off I am.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:58:24 PM EDT

[#16]

I am pretty observant and have asked several people what they were carrying (that is, people carrying concealed), and they initially acted shocked, then told me...

In one case, it wasn't very hard...the M-Frames, Blackwater hat prominently displayed on the dash, 5.11 pants, and baggy Hawaiian shirt kinda gave it away.

OTOH, I have open carried right past 2 police officers in a small, crowded restaurant, my pistol mere feet from them and in plain view, and they never looked up.

I would say that at least 70% of the general population does not notice when I open carry.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:59:04 PM EDT

[#17]

There are times for CC, and I'd carry conceled at those times. But I'd honestly rather open carry for the convenience of it, instead of fumbling around with a coat or shirt, drop my hand to the butt of the gun and have it ready to rock.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:59:26 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Most folks, Like JW777 stated, suck at situational awareness. That siad, I'd carry concealed for a very practical reason. OC tends t make you an idiot magnet. I'm just not that desperate for attention.

Projection?

I don't OC for attention.

I do when it is comfortable or when it is the law.

Would it be better to leave my firearm in a car when I go out to eat in Virginia or would it be better to open carry, since concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol is illegal.

Posted: 6/14/2009 5:59:58 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I support open carry but wouldn't even if it became legal where I live. Why? With CC I keep those that would do me harm as ignorant as possible. The less info they have, the better off I am.

Several "incidents" at truck stops late at night, in several states, that would have otherwise been draw down stories to post in GD, were avoided simply by me open carrying a G19+X300 in a Raven holster.

edit: and looking like the total badass that I am

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:01:26 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Or they'll wait five minutes until you leave. Either can be said.

Yes, it's possible that they'll wait until you leave. Open carry DOES act as a deterrent to SOME criminals...but not all. The ones who are not deterred by the sight of your weapon are the dangerous motherfuckers whom you are going to have to shoot to stop...only now they know you're armed and they can wait for an opening.

It's the age old question regarding open carrying, some say it's a deterrent and it is to some, others say it makes you a target, and it can from some.

From open carrying for a couple of years, all I can say is make sure you have good situational awareness, and buy yourself a quality retention holster that you're very well practiced on. Learn proper weapon retention, and invest in a karambit. When I train, I am open carrying for the most part, unless i'm practicing concealed drawing. It doesn't make much sense for me to train with a pistol on my hip in the open like most people do, and then shove one down my pants under my shirt, does it? Train how youd fight, this is how i'd fight.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:01:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

There are times for CC, and I'd carry conceled at those times. But I'd honestly rather open carry for the convenience of it, instead of fumbling around with a coat or shirt, drop my hand to the butt of the gun and have it ready to rock.

Anybody who is going to CC and doesn't actively do drills for drawing their concealed weapon is a fool. You don't want to be fumbling around with your weapon when someone is about to shoot you.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:02:45 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
but, you act as if "mass shootings" are a common place and that is the reason to not open carry?

They are more common than they should be, but that's not the main reason. Active shooters are one reason. Unwanted attention from law enforcement and security people is another reason. The hardcore motherfuckers who aren't scared of your display of a weapon are another reason. Etc.

i would venture to say your common street mugging, where criminals are looking for easy targets would be a reason TO open carry.

I've said this many times. There are 3 types of criminals:

1. Those who will see your gun and decide not to fuck with you
2. Those who will see your gun and then wait and see whether or not you are switched on enough to use it
3. Those who aren't scared of your gun or the fact that you'll shoot them

You never know which type of scumbag you are going to be dealing with. If I have to take chances, I'd rather take them with level 1 bad guys.

both have cons and pros. I don't see why people openly dismiss open carry. it has its advantages and its disadvantages.

I've said many times that each method has advantages and disadvantages...but it's equally true that many people are not really grasping the drawbacks to open carry. They see them on a list but do not grasp the significance of them.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:04:21 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
You're an easy target if you open carry.

Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

Because a BG is going to prefer to attack an obviously carrying target over one that is no obvious threat.

I still don't understand that reasoning behind making yourself look "weak" and an easy mark.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:04:55 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I am pretty observant and have asked several people what they were carrying (that is, people carrying concealed), and they initially acted shocked, then told me...

In one case, it wasn't very hard...the M-Frames, Blackwater hat prominently displayed on the dash, 5.11 pants, and baggy Hawaiian shirt kinda gave it away.

OTOH, I have open carried right past 2 police officers in a small, crowded restaurant, my pistol mere feet from them and in plain view, and they never looked up.

I would say that at least 70% of the general population does not notice when I open carry.

100% true.

Example: I was openly carrying while on a trip one time, and I stopped to get gas. A dude pulled up beside me and started fueling up. He stood there for a good 4 minutes before he noticed that I had a handgun on my hip. Then he was scared shitless. I've been in lines talking to people 3 feet away and they completely missed the fact that I was carrying a handgun openly.

We call them "sheeple" for a reason.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:05:49 PM EDT

[#25]

Open most of the time. Concealed when concealment advantage outweighs ease of access advantage.

Most of the time, I think ease of access is more important than concealment. Unfortunately, I live in Texas. It's concealed or nothing for me.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:06:04 PM EDT

[#26]

Depends. We talking open carry of anything? If so, then open - and I'll be OCing my M4gery on its 3-point sling.

We can already OC handguns here in OH. As others have said, it is good for convenience - can run out to check the mail without needing to cover up, etc.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:07:00 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You're an easy target if you open carry.
Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

Because a BG is going to prefer to attack an obviously carrying target over one that is no obvious threat.

I still don't understand that reasoning behind making yourself look "weak" and an easy mark.

If someone targets you, being concealed or not, you're fucked if they already have their weapon drawn on you. They got the drop on you, might as well just do what they say and give them your wallet. However, people who were OC have had this happen and lost their gun. At least if you are concealed all you might lose is your wallet.
And many criminals plan and recon before committing crimes.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:08:05 PM EDT

[#28]

Yes - Sometimes.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:09:03 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're an easy target if you open carry.

Concealed carry is better because the bad guy may attack someone else since you don't seem like a threat and you can dispatch him.

Because a BG is going to prefer to attack an obviously carrying target over one that is no obvious threat.

I still don't understand that reasoning behind making yourself look "weak" and an easy mark.

If someone targets you, being concealed or not, you're fucked. They got the drop on you, might as well just do what they say and give them your wallet. However, people have had this happen and lost their gun. At least if you are concealed all you might lose is your wallet.

And many criminals plan and recon before committing crimes.

Which is why an open show of force by law enforcement or military personnel on partrol automatically draws every BG in the area. How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

Any other strawman you wanna toss out there?

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:14:11 PM EDT

[#30]

No, I like the element of surprise

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:14:20 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

There are a lot of cops who died at the end of their own issued weapon. The development of retention holsters and the increase in DT/weapon retention training in departments grew from that fact.

"Straw man"????

I think not.

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:14:35 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Concealed.

And IBTSS.

ETA: I think you're going to find that it is almost always situational.

A guy out west on a ranch or hunting in rugged open terrain? OC is not big deal and no one will give him a second glance.

A guy in the produce aisle at WAL-MART in a city with tons of non-gun people who get very edgy at the mere sight of a gun? Not such a great idea, unless you like talking to the police a lot.

More OC being practiced would help break the mindset the media has implanted into the masses.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:16:06 PM EDT

[#33]

I wish we had the option of oc here in Texas. I would mostly CC, but it would be nice if I need to run somewhere real quick without having to to make sure I've got on the right clothes to conceal.

If you're carrying a gun, you should be mentally switched on at all times. It should be no different if you CC or OC. The gun isn't a magic talisman that just because you have it bad stuff wont happen. Your situational awareness should erase any thoughts of, "easy target".

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:16:23 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Out in the sticks, sure. Around town, I'd stick with concealed. Or I would if the State of Florida would send me my damn permit, and then legalize open carry.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

+1

Out in the woods or whatever, open carry would be one situation I think it would be a good idea. However, being among people like in a town/city, it isn't wise to advertise to the bad guys that you are armed.

I'll never understand this train of thought.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:16:56 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I support open carry but wouldn't even if it became legal where I live. Why? With CC I keep those that would do me harm as ignorant as possible. The less info they have, the better off I am.

Several "incidents" at truck stops late at night, in several states, that would have otherwise been draw down stories to post in GD, were avoided simply by me open carrying a G19+X300 in a Raven holster.

To each their own. I can't think of an instance when I was CC'ing that OC'ing would've made the difference. In fact, I've had zero situations where either was truly necessary.

As a rule, I strive to blend in, I generally dress and act to be unremarkable, and OC'ing does not support this.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:17:23 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

There are a lot of cops who died at the end of their own issued weapon. The development of retention holsters and the increase in DT/weapon retention training in departments grew from that fact.

"Straw man"????

I think not.

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

Define "a lot". 1 out of 1,000,000?

Yeah... horrible odds that.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:17:40 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

There are a lot of cops who died at the end of their own issued weapon. The development of retention holsters and the increase in DT/weapon retention training in departments grew from that fact.

"Straw man"????

I think not.

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

Yeah, I was going to say, plenty of them.

My understanding is that this is part of the reason why some firearms have magazine safeties.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:18:19 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

I train quite frequently in weapon retention, and do carry in a retention holster. Grabbing my gun, unless i'm sleeping will prove fatal very fast for the person doing the grabbing. I will however agree that a lot of OCers do not train in weapon retention, and I cringe at the thought of an open top leather holster located on the SOB in the open.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:19:27 PM EDT

[#39]

It is legal here in PA, but there's no way I would do it. Too many hassles with libtards and the Police.

I concealed carry all the time.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:20:36 PM EDT

[#40]

I have had a CHL almost since the things started in Texas. I would OC out in the country when I visit my friends ranch. He has a few pieces of land you have to drive on public roads to go between. I would CC most of the time.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:21:32 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Define "a lot". 1 out of 1,000,000?

Yeah... horrible odds that.

Hey, if you wanna play the odds, why bother with the gun at all? Odds are that you won't have to draw it. Why bother loading it? Odds are that you won't have to shoot it...merely pulling the gun scares most bad guys away....

When you're on the ground getting your head smashed in you no longer give a damn about the stats.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:21:35 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Concealed.

And IBTSS.

ETA: I think you're going to find that it is almost always situational.

A guy out west on a ranch or hunting in rugged open terrain? OC is not big deal and no one will give him a second glance.

A guy in the produce aisle at WAL-MART in a city with tons of non-gun people who get very edgy at the mere sight of a gun? Not such a great idea, unless you like talking to the police a lot.

More OC being practiced would help break the mindset the media has implanted into the masses.

This.

Why is it so hard to understand? During the Colonial and Westward expansion eras, OC was the order of the day. It was considered cowardly and dishonest to carry concealed.

Now, alarmist types say it's bad tactics despite having ZERO stats or logic to back up the assertion other than "you'll be targeted first" or "you'll scare the sheep" bullshit.

Leave it as an individual choice. Respect the equal Rights of others. Between CCW types and OC types, the more of us there are the less the criminal element can easily victimize anyone.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:22:41 PM EDT

[#43]

No-never

Because open carry is legal in AZ, and I don't want to. When I see someone carrying I laugh to myself and wonder what he did not be able to gat a carry concealed permit.

AB

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:22:57 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

There are a lot of cops who died at the end of their own issued weapon. The development of retention holsters and the increase in DT/weapon retention training in departments grew from that fact.

"Straw man"????

I think not.

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

If the idea of attacking someone you know is armed was the ultimate deterrent, then the Old West would have been VERY peaceful.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:23:30 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Concealed.

And IBTSS.

ETA: I think you're going to find that it is almost always situational.

A guy out west on a ranch or hunting in rugged open terrain? OC is not big deal and no one will give him a second glance.

A guy in the produce aisle at WAL-MART in a city with tons of non-gun people who get very edgy at the mere sight of a gun? Not such a great idea, unless you like talking to the police a lot.

More OC being practiced would help break the mindset the media has implanted into the masses.

This.

Why is it so hard to understand? During the Colonial and Westward expansion eras, OC was the order of the day. It was considered cowardly and dishonest to carry concealed.

Now, alarmist types say it's bad tactics despite having ZERO stats or logic to back up the assertion other than "you'll be targeted first" or "you'll scare the sheep" bullshit.

Leave it as an individual choice. Respect the equal Rights of others. Between CCW types and OC types, the more of us there are the less the criminal element can easily victimize anyone.

The plethora of police reports of people OC'ing that had their firearm stolen or used against them is all the proof I need.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:24:05 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

There are a lot of cops who died at the end of their own issued weapon. The development of retention holsters and the increase in DT/weapon retention training in departments grew from that fact.

"Straw man"????

I think not.

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

If the idea of attacking someone you know is armed was the ultimate deterrent, then the Old West would have been VERY peaceful.

Actually, the Old West was very peaceful. Statistically.

Stories told to the people back East made it sound different...those stories persist.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:24:57 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

The plethora of police reports of people OC'ing that had their firearm stolen or used against them is all the proof I need.

I need more information...such as the actual reports, what type of firearms, what type of training they had, and how attentive they were.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:25:24 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Define "a lot". 1 out of 1,000,000?

Yeah... horrible odds that.

Hey, if you wanna play the odds, why bother with the gun at all? Odds are that you won't have to draw it. Why bother loading it? Odds are that you won't have to shoot it...merely pulling the gun scares most bad guys away....

When you're on the ground getting your head smashed in you no longer give a damn about the stats.

If I'm at that point, then I need my pistol NOW... Not trying to fumble around for a deep cover or iwb rig for it.

My Blackhawk CQC is just fine with the active retention and there is nothing special about retention training that requires a "superman" cop badge.

Odds are that BGs seeing 1 in 10 civvies running around with openly carried firearms are gonna piss off and head for NYC or some other easy pickings.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:25:58 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many cops lose their firearms when a BG "gets the drop on them"?

There are a lot of cops who died at the end of their own issued weapon. The development of retention holsters and the increase in DT/weapon retention training in departments grew from that fact.

"Straw man"????

I think not.

I don't see many open carriers who have ANY DT/weapon retention training, and I have yet to see one open carrying in day to day life in a level III retention holster. This would be another "clue".

If the idea of attacking someone you know is armed was the ultimate deterrent, then the Old West would have been VERY peaceful.

It was a lot more peaceful than John Wayne and Clint Eastwood made it out to be.

Posted: 6/14/2009 6:30:21 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Now, alarmist types say it's bad tactics despite having ZERO stats or logic to back up the assertion other than "you'll be targeted first" or "you'll scare the sheep" bullshit.

Zero stats? Zero logic?

Atlanta courthouse, March 11, 2005. Inmate overpowers a baliff, shoots her with her own weapon, then proceeds to kill three other people trying to make his escape.

An NYPD cadet was attacked on the subway by a dude who wanted to steal his gun so he could use it to rob a bank. The guy tried to bash the cadet's head in with a baseball bat.

The FBI says that out of the 612 officers killed by criminals on duty, 52 were killed with their own weapons. That's a 8.4967320261437908496732026143791% chance looking just at officers killed...that doesn't even begin to account for the number of attempted weapon snatches that were unsuccessful.

Zero stats? Zero logic?

Only if you aren't paying any attention.

Leave it as an individual choice.

I don't recall ever calling for the outlaw of open carry. I would stridently oppose any effort to do that in Virginia...but that doesn't make it a smart choice for most people in most situations.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would you if you could: Open VS Conceal Carry (Page 2 of 3)

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