With the multiple posts concerning police enforcement, I give you Peel's Nine Principles - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - With the multiple posts concerning police enforcement, I give you Peel's Nine Principles (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 3/12/2006 9:40:47 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I am very confused....... I am a LEO and a ex fultime now part time soldier....
What do I call myself

Not sure, but I think you're some of the best America has to offer. Thank you for your service.

Posted: 3/12/2006 10:40:52 AM EDT

[#2]

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Go back and read #7. Then tell me why cops insist on calling people like me "civilians."
Isn't it true also that the military is the public and the public is the military. I guess we should just delete the word "civilian" from our vocabulary since it appears to offend someone.

Go back and read #1. Then tell me why they spend so much time and effort writing 7-mph-over speeding tickets. I don't imagine that Sir Robert Peel envisioned thousand of cars speeding on a roadway when he wrote his reforms in the early 1800's or he would have included traffic control.

Go back and read #4. Then tell me why every po-dunk town has a SWAT team, or as close to one as they can afford. Let you wife or child be taken hostage and you will wish that the local police had more than three untrained cops with .38 specials.... who were probably supposed to be out writing citations anyway, for people going 2 mph over the speed limit or eating donuts.......

Re #1: That is the PROPER use of the word civilian: Everybody who is not in the military. The police are civilians.

I guess it depends on whos definition you go by:

ci·vil·ian ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-vlyn)
n.
A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police.
A specialist in Roman or civil law.
adj.
Of or relating to civilians or civil life; nonmilitary: civilian clothes; a civilian career.

Modern Police agencies are para-military in structure. Are they not in fact "Armed Forces"

Modern Police are not subject to the UCMJ. Therefore, they are civilians.

Thank You.

I might add that Modern Police belong to some form of Public Employee's Union.

Posted: 3/12/2006 11:02:23 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Updated for present times:

1. The basic mission for which the police exist is to provide revenue for the the government, to gradually use different methods to erode the Bill of Rights, and to provide a class of citizen with more rights then the average civilian.

2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the whim of the police officer.

3. Police could care less about the respect of the public.

4. The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force caught on camera, if there is no video evidence the physical force never happened.

5. Police provide different service to the law depending if you are another police officer, work for the government, are rich or famous, or just a regular "civilian".

6. Police use physical force when they want, only if the force is videotaped will there be a problem.

7. Police are a protected class of citizen, and simple "civilians" can't understand or take care of themselves.

8. Police view everyone who is not a police officer as a criminal: unless you are rich, famous, or a member of the government.

9. The police are inefficient.

Hey, this was a fairly civil, non-insulting discussion. Why don't you leave the cop hating somewhere else?

Either that or jock the fuck up and show us how it's done.

Posted: 3/12/2006 2:19:33 PM EDT

[#4]

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Let you wife or child be taken hostage and you will wish that the local police had more than three untrained cops with .38 specials.....

If my wife or child are held hostage, get out of the way, I'll go in myself and get them. I have over 1K hours of counterstrike, I can clear a room like nobodys business. "Counter terrorists win biotches!"

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Luke 11:21

21"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his goods are in peace."

Dont think I have anything to worry about.

Posted: 3/12/2006 2:29:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Peel wrote his principles based on the times, most of them are still relevant, but some have to be taken in context of the times.

Civilians in my mind are anyone who is not an agent of the government.

I am still a professional soldier albeit a guardsman now, and with my full-time government (criminal justice agency) job I am still an agent and extension of the court.

You as an individual are charged with protection of yourself and loved ones.
I am charged with the safety of the public at large, placing me in a class that has duties above those of the average citizen. Does that mean above the law, no just responsible for more than my own safety.

Posted: 3/12/2006 4:45:16 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Bwahahahahahhh!!!!! You've obviously been smoking some of the evidence.

Not at all, but I see that you made no substantive response to my points, either.

Posted: 3/12/2006 5:04:21 PM EDT

[#7]

9. The police are inefficient.

Except when it comes to overtime.

Posted: 3/13/2006 3:11:24 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

9. The police are inefficient.

Except when it comes to overtime.

Thats pretty regulated, actually.

Posted: 3/13/2006 3:41:18 AM EDT

[#9]

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Absolutely! Without crime, they have no income, their existence is based on crime. Yes, it is a sad truth but, it is the truth, nonetheless.

Crime is never going to go away; there is always someone willing to fill the void created by the arrest of criminals.

So you're saying if the crime rate drops below 2% or so, people will forgo college or a great job to take up the slack of committing crimes to keep the numbers up?

I find that a little hard to swallow.

TXL

Posted: 3/13/2006 3:42:34 AM EDT

[#10]

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Absolutely! Without crime, they have no income, their existence is based on crime. Yes, it is a sad truth but, it is the truth, nonetheless.

Crime is never going to go away; there is always someone willing to fill the void created by the arrest of criminals.

So you're saying if the crime rate drops below 2% or so, people will forgo college or a great job to take up the slack of committing crimes to keep the numbers up?

I find that a little hard to swallow.

TXL

What I find hard to beleive is that the crime rate will ever drop below 2%.

Posted: 3/13/2006 3:48:41 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
So you're saying if the crime rate drops below 2% or so, people will forgo college or a great job to take up the slack of committing crimes to keep the numbers up?

I find that a little hard to swallow.

TXL

There will always be some ne'er-do-well who sees criminal activity as his/her ticket to fame and fortune. Society will never be without this type of person, no matter how well the economy is doing. The state of the economy has nothing to do with it anyways, because these aren't the type of folks who generally hold down a regular 9-5 job. Having a job and responsibility would tie them down too much.

Posted: 3/13/2006 4:09:57 AM EDT

[#12]

Tickets for going 7 mph over the speed limit?

I damn sure hope so. I don't want someone driving 37 mph down my street, or 27 in a school zone, or 62 on the Loop with its uncontrolled access and many lights.

If you think it is acceptable to drive 7 mph over the limit, then you ought not to be driving because you lack maturity and self control.

I want to cops writing tickets for speeding, running stop signs, and unsafe lane changes. Otherwise the roads will be even less safe than they are now.

If you insist on speeding, I hope that not only do you get ticketed, but that you also get tonked when you smart-off to the cop, and that your Mom's dog gets shot when they go to your parents' house to search your basement room.

Posted: 3/13/2006 4:16:01 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Tickets for going 7 mph over the speed limit?

I damn sure hope so. I don't want someone driving 37 mph down my street, or 27 in a school zone, or 62 on the Loop with its uncontrolled access and many lights.

If you think it is acceptable to drive 7 mph over the limit, then you ought not to be driving because you lack maturity and self control.

I want to cops writing tickets for speeding, running stop signs, and unsafe lane changes. Otherwise the roads will be even less safe than they are now.

If you insist on speeding, I hope that not only do you get ticketed, but that you also get tonked when you smart-off to the cop, and that your Mom's dog gets shot when they go to your parents' house to search your basement room.

Posted: 3/13/2006 4:20:05 AM EDT

[#14]

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As for tickets, its probably most likely due to the residents of that area requesting that level of enforcement..

That was pretty funny.

I haven't read past page one but, this is absolutly true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mr. and Mrs. Smith are on the block watch program and officers in their home ownwers association. They constantly bitch and moan about speeders in their development. Take a wild guess on where the chief will set up stationary radar and expect enforcement.

Posted: 3/13/2006 5:14:07 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Civilians in my mind are anyone who is not an agent of the government.

And that's how the government prefers that you think.

Except the government is supposed to work for us, not us for it.

But Heinlein had the truth of it, some time ago:

In a mature society, "civil servant" is semantically equal to "civil master."

Apparently, ours has reached the level of "mature."

Posted: 3/13/2006 5:23:43 AM EDT

[#16]

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I don't understand the issue surronding the term civilian.
It illustrates an "us vs. them" mentality.

Re-read Peel's Rule #7:

7. Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

Instead, today we get "Let the authorities handle it. You're not qualified." Because we're just civilians, and they're the only ones professional enough to handle a Glock .40.

It also has to do with the militarized mindset that the term "civilian" indicates. Police are not supposed to be a paramilitary force, because it brings with it a mindset toward interaction and use of force that is antithetical to good police procedure.

Some more on Sir Robert Peel:

The Metropolitan Police Act established the principles that shaped modern English policing. First, the primary means of policing was conspicuous patrolling by uniformed police officers. Second, command and control were to be maintained through a centralised, pseudo-military organisational structure. The first Commissioners were Charles Rowan (an ex-Colonel) and Richard Mayne (a Barrister). They insisted that the prevention of crime was the first object of the police force. Third, police were to be patient, impersonal, and professional. Finally, the authority of the English constable derived from three official sources - the crown, the law, and the consent and co-operation of the citizenry. Peel established nine principles for his policing, which are still followed today.

www.dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/peel/laworder/police.htm

Gee, internet pundits, the first profesional police force was a "quasi-military organization"........... With an Army Colonel and a Lawyer as Commisioners.

Posted: 3/13/2006 6:09:10 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Tickets for going 7 mph over the speed limit?

I damn sure hope so. I don't want someone driving 37 mph down my street, or 27 in a school zone, or 62 on the Loop with its uncontrolled access and many lights.

If you think it is acceptable to drive 7 mph over the limit, then you ought not to be driving because you lack maturity and self control.

I want to cops writing tickets for speeding, running stop signs, and unsafe lane changes. Otherwise the roads will be even less safe than they are now.

If you insist on speeding, I hope that not only do you get ticketed, but that you also get tonked when you smart-off to the cop, and that your Mom's dog gets shot when they go to your parents' house to search your basement room.

WOW, does not really sound too much like your name sake. Might want to re-register as someone who is more in line with your way of thinking. Chairman Mao perhaps?

Posted: 3/13/2006 6:16:00 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Tickets for going 7 mph over the speed limit?

I damn sure hope so. I don't want someone driving 37 mph down my street, or 27 in a school zone, or 62 on the Loop with its uncontrolled access and many lights.

If you think it is acceptable to drive 7 mph over the limit, then you ought not to be driving because you lack maturity and self control.

I want to cops writing tickets for speeding, running stop signs, and unsafe lane changes. Otherwise the roads will be even less safe than they are now.

If you insist on speeding, I hope that not only do you get ticketed, but that you also get tonked when you smart-off to the cop, and that your Mom's dog gets shot when they go to your parents' house to search your basement room.

WOW, does not really sound too much like your name sake. Might want to re-register as someone who is more in line with your way of thinking. Chairman Mao perhaps?

So we should do away with all traffic laws and just let everyone drive like they want?

Posted: 3/13/2006 6:32:02 AM EDT

[#19]

I thought a civilian was anyone that didn't ride a Harley Davidson. And I thought the job of the Police was to show up after a crime was committed, investigate and track down the perpetrators.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - With the multiple posts concerning police enforcement, I give you Peel's Nine Principles (Page 2 of 2)

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