Post by MurderSHO45
 [b]I posted a thread along those lines few days ago, of course no one responded cause, hell I don't know, this board is like that.
If your not one of the 50 people who basically live on this board, not many people respond back.[/b]

 MS45, it happens to me time to time, too.[:D]

[/quote]
MurderSHO45, MS45,
you guys are so right that it hurts.
Probably I was one of those not responding and if so I apologize.

When on the board I'm trying to do a better job of reading each new topic and responding to those of interest to me - and those where I have an opinion or at least something to say.

About the only thing I'm able to state in my defense is there were a couple of days I was busy chasing a berserk "HUN" who had stolen a big yellow bulldozer and was headed toward a peaceful settlement.

[:D][:D]

Naw dude not everyone.
The French aren't worthy of your suspicion !

[:D]

 Before we break out the flamethrowers, we need to consider the source.  DEBKA sounds like it was written by the Israeli Propaganda Ministry.  The Saudi royal family has a big problem at home, and needs to focus attention away from themselves.
 As far as Israel goes, they never hesitate to bite the hand that feeds them.  Israel looks out for Israel, which is what the US should be doing.

Flag Waver,

No sure what you mean by "trun". But if you mean gang-up against the U.S., I would disagree:

Where would the rest of the world turn to for handouts?
Where would the oil-rich nations sell their oil?
Who would finance research on an international scale.
Where would the Japanese sell their cars and electronic whizbangs?
Who would bail out the Russian economy?
Who would provide the bulk of the financing for the International Space Program?
Who would provide the bulk of disaster aid?
Where would the Chinese find another sink hole for the cheap junk their slave factories churn out?

This is by no means an exhaustive list, but I think you see what I'm getting at.

Garandman-excellent point. I never thought of that.  Tell me though, why  were the Jews of the Old Testament God's chosen people?  Can you give me some scripture sources?    

No! Don't ask THAT question!  Eric won't respond!  If he does, He'll call you a NAZI!

It's evident to all where Eric's allegiance "lies"!

DaMan

Yes, you're right...guess I was having one of those paraniod moments...hehe...

Uh-oh, the 'struck dog' has barked again!

What happened?  Has your [b][i]Bund[/i][/b] been disbanded? Finally?

Eric The(EasilyBored)Hun[>]:)]

Look at his personal attack above and you'll see what I mean! [:P]

I hate it SO much when the suckers come up to feed!

DaMan

Still waiting to hear about DEBKA (Eric's source)!

Did the PRC really ship combat troops over the border to Afghanistan to fight for Al Quaeda and the Taliban like DEBKA reported?!!!! [:P]

DaMan

mojo:

About this overthrowing the Iranian/Iraqi regimes thing, the US really has a pretty good record of overthrowing foreign governments when it commits military force.  For intance, Mexico, Italy, Japan and Germany (twice!) have been conquored by us.  Maybe Mexico and Italy are not exactly superpowers, but Japan and Germany are formidable foes.  Certainly better than any Muslim army has been since the late fifteenth century.  Western civilization has been walking all over the Muslims since then.  You would be hard pressed to find any conventional wars that Muslims have won against Western powers.  Now I am not saying they have not won guerilla wars, but that is not what we are talking about.  I am talking invading and then letting them sort the mess out.  That was the Russian's mistake in Afghanistan after the easily conquored it; they stayed.  We do not have to.

The only nation I think we have failed to conquor is North Korea, and that was more of a political deicision than anything else.  We have not been that great at trying to overthrow foreigh regimes without using military force (Iraq, Cuba), nor have we been that great at keeping a crappy government in power (Vietnam, Iran).  But when we have used military force and our politicians have had some nads, we have a pretty oustanding eliminating the enemy regime.  Really, we stomped Iraq once and they were much stronger then.  And Iran could not beat Iraq.  Given the weakness in those regimes, I think our chances would be pretty good as long as we fully commit.

Lets give war a chance.

Post from DaMan [sic] -

So you [u]were[/u] the 'struck dog'! I thought as much.

You call me unpatriotic, I call you NAZI! It's all the same, now isn't it, [i][b]bubbi?[/b][/i]

Why? Cause your boyfriend has to leave?

Eric The([i]RuhenSieSich,SchlecterKerl[/i])Hun[>]:)]

No, Eric! I never called you "unpatriotic"!  I think you are simply an "Israel firster".  This means that you place more value on the welfare of Israel than that of the U.S.A.!

Sorry if those words hurt!  But from your comments, they apply!

And yes.... you did call me a NAZI.  Probably out of frustration and for lack of a logical counter arguement.  

I forgive you! You are my friend!  [:P]

DaMan

PS - Shouldn't a moderator be above petty arguements with the board "peons"? And "name calling"?  Isn't that beneath your dignity? [:P]  

Hey, I like Israel too, Daman, but I like America more...but I like Israel more than Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Syria, the PA, and any other terror-backing - pro Arab, anti USA mf's...the reason I have this opinion is because in all the time I have been alive, I have NEVER seen Israelis hijack airplanes or bomb airports, buildings etc, to achieve their political goals.



[beer]

The article that was the main subject of this thread seems like total BS to me.  I think that it is highly unlikely that Saudi would ally itself with the likes of Saddam.  First, such an act would alienate the U.S., Saudi's major supplier of arms.  Secondly, Saudi would be destined to be out-gunned by Iraq's army regardless.

I DO believe that Saudi wants the U.S. troops out.  They desperately want to end the consensus in the middle east that they are U.S. pawns.  This reputation has caused many in their country to gravitate towards radical islam.  Saudi simply knows (and so do its enemies) that if push comes to shove it can count on the U.S. to bring in troops at a moment's notice to defend it from external threats.  The more immediate concern to Saudi's leaders is the possibilty of domestic unrest.

Saudi may not be a friend of the U.S.,  but they always act to serve their own purposes.  Just ask yourself if you would put yourself under Saddam's power.

Unfortunately I heard very late last night (CNN) that a meeting Of Iran and Iraq diplomats had taken place.
Discussions spoken of included putting aside the little war between the two a few years ago.

That's 'cause it is! DEBKA is totally BoguS (capital BS)

5subslr5, you're also usually full of **it, but you may be on to something with your last post.  There are some strange things going on in the Moslem world!

An alliance of Iraq and Iran is not out of the question!

Also, it is quite possible that many Al Qaeda members slipped quietly from the area of Herat into Iran. But the US doesn't want to touch this hot potato right now!

DaMan

raf, I know you mean well, but 5subslr5, Eric, RikWriter, and the rest I disagree with occasionlly .... can defend themselves. If they can't..... they better learn!  Or at least they should stop spouting their crap and speak fact!

DaMan

Why should he stop now?  That's been his MO for years...

Thank you, thank you very much !

Guess this mean I still have "room for improvement."

Actually I don't feel the same way about most of your posts.  This may be because, if I recall correctly, you were my first supporter back when I strongly questioned as to whether the Saudi's were our ally.

I'll start immediately looking for posts where "you're also usually full of **it."

[X]

If those who can't "take it" SHUN ME, then so be it!  I'm not here to make new friends!

As you can see from the post above, RikWriter, my favorite "queer lover" [:P], has already posted his support for me!

Damn it's great to be loved!  DaMan [:P]

Please do! When I'm proven wrong, I will admit it!

Dog's sniffing on my trail bring my senses into keen focus!

DaMan

Post from DaMan [sic] -

Boyfriend's still not back, huh?

Well, I guess whatever it takes to get you through the night....

Eric The(JustNotMyCupOfTea)Hun[>]:)]

Eric..... cute! How about DEBKA? They your cup of tea?  DaMan

D. Man,
if you hear any sniffing sounds back there it won't be me.

I've seen a very few folks here work themselves into a position where they almost have to disagree....and maybe a few who feel they must always agree.  (Although in neither case not necessarily with me.)

I too call em as I see em but I have been trying to do so without offense where possible.

So damn stealthy I didn't even hear the engine noise !
(Eric, you got new mufflers on that thing ??)

[:D]

No but YOU'LL DO FINE! [:P] DaMan

Eric what's the problem with DEBKA?  Can't you address that question?

[img]http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/07/images/site_images/DryBones-Main_Picture.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/17/images/site_images/DryBones-Main_Picture.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/01/images/site_images/DryBones-Main_Picture.gif[/img]

Eric The(FanOfIsrael)Hun[>]:)]

I hate when things break down into beating on the less PC of us!  Can't we all just get along!?!?  

I believe that if we stop all wars and hug our neighbors more, the world would be a happier place.  Atleast if we didn't have any [bad] neighbors. (Excluding Indians, they are the only ones over there with any sense!)

[removed racial slur - Paul]

Thank-you,Eric! Most of us knew where you where coming from before, but now you've confirmed it!
The "Dry Bones" stuff is directly from Israel!

DaMan

PS - AMERICA FIRST!  

Minman72,
these two been at it so long this is just their way of saying hello.

In the case of E. T. Hun, he was an American Hun until his conversion to an Israeli Hun but he still claims to love America so I guess he's now a Hun of American origin who is also an Israeli Hun.  Think maybe he's at least a dual Hun and might even be a triple.

Or something like that.

[:D]

[removed racial slur from quote - Paul]

Hmmmm, let's see what Forbes Magazine's website says about DEBKA.com:

[size=4]Debkafile[/size=4]
[b]www.debka.com[/b]

This Jerusalem-based site has achieved recent notoriety for its tip-sheet-like reports from the war zone. Run by two self described 'experienced' foreign correspondents, the site offers commentary and analysis of global events, especially from the Middle East. Caution: Most of the information is attributed to unidentified sources. But Debkafile has been ahead of the pack often enough to suggest that the reporting is good. Some of it is frightening, like a recent report that bin Laden has 100 or so "lone wolves" operating under deep cover inside the U.S. and abroad waiting to carry out preprogrammed missions.

BEST: The archives.

WORST: Amateurish design.

Article located at:[url]www.forbes.com/bow/b2c/review.jhtml?id=6117[/url]

Hey, DaMan, I didn't know Forbes was a Jewish name! Did you?

For those serious enough to take the time, here is what DEBKA says about itself:[url]http://www.debka.com/About_us/body_about_us.html[/url]

Pretty strong credentials, I'd say. And isn't it strange how all their enemies seem to be on the far left?

Eric The(OrFromTheWeirdRight!)Hun[>]:)]

imposter, mojo

I'm not going back to Korea or Vietnam - too many wrong things to even consider.

However, starting with the Soviet war with the Afghans we seem to be getting the hang of 'managing' wars.  In the afghan/Soviet war the CIA did a pretty fine job of fighting a 'proxy' war against the Soviets.

In the current conflict with Afghanistan we've again successfully fought mostly a proxy war.

I try to come from any position where the objective is achieved and American lives are saved.

We might give some thought as to how we might fight a proxy war against say Iran.  We told Saddam that he could invade Kuwait and the dumb-ass believed us.  Maybe this time we tell him he can invade Iran and we'll help him.  Course after the wet-work is over........

More and more these days I visit our old and wise friend "Mack E. Avelli."

Attain the objective - save American lives.

I firmly believe that this "jihad" is in reality going to turn into a world-wide fiasco.

I have long thought that every major item produced by a US company..for export should have a "special bug" placed in it. this bug could be in  one of several possible types, either a self destructive or fubar type mechanism.

this would enable the US to basically shutdown any equipment in the world at the drop of a hat in case of a major problem.

I live in OK and we produce some MAJOR oil field equipment for decks, containment stations and montitoring. the middle east..all of Russia..south America...Asia...would be crippled if we needed it to be..without even dropping a bomb.


that whole region will be toast in a couple of years.

Strong, strong praise. And from a HUN !

[:D]

Paul,
what was the Russian Op ??

Oh, Eric!  You've got me convinced!

And DEBKA's report of troops from the PRC crossing into Aghanistan to help out the Al Quaeda and Taliban?  DEBKA got the exclussive scoop on that one! [:P]  Wonder how they got all those Chinese troops back out without someone in the real media getting wind of it?

Could it be that DEBKA was/is full of **it?!! [:P]

And for DEBKA being on the right and those who don't go along with DEBKA's agenda being on the left?  Give me a break!

DEBKA's agenda is ISRAEL FIRST.  It is easy to understand why they would have such an agenda..... they are Israeli citizens living in Jerusalem!

I'm a US citizen living in the USA ..... my agenda is AMERICA FIRST!  The interests of MY country have priority.

DaMan

I just have no memory of this particular incident.
The Soviet Union did not allow their populace to own copiers but were dumb enough to purchase copiers from us and let us do the service.

No wonder they lost the cold war !

Of course DuhMan is attempting to muddy the waters by questioning Debka...as if Debka were the only source for this.
The fact is, the Saudis make it abundantly clear to our military personell that they are not wanted.  I have a friend stationed over there who is a general's aide, and he is constantly telling me how even American generals are treated like shit by the Saudis.
They don't want us there, they give money to our enemies, and they are not our allies.  We would be better off without them.

Rik,
agreed and especially the part about "they are not our allies."

At present the world needs their oil.

What should we do ?

I should also ask who we would be better off without ?  The ruling gang or..........??

DikRider, look at your statement above.  If you substituted "our military technology" for "money" in the above sentence, what country would that describe?  Give you a hint:  That country would never give "our money away".  They keep "our money" and profit by selling "our military technology to our enemies".  Some ally, huh?

DaMan

PS - And DikRider, I sure would appreciate another source besides DEBKA reporting on the "secret agreements' between Iran, Iraq, and Saudi.  But then again, it might be SO secret, that only DEBKA's un-named inside sources know about it.  You know, like the way they knew hoards of Chinese had entered Afghanistan to fight for the Al Quaeda and then just disappeared as quickly as they came! [:P]

DaMan, now could that country be_________??

Yeah, 5subslr5, the same country as entered into the following agreement with the US:

[size=4]Memorandum of Agreement between Israel and the United States[/size=4]
(April 21, 1988)

[i][b]The results of much discussion, and separated from the Middle East peace process disagreements, Israel and the U.S. signed simultaneously in Jerusalem and Washington the following memorandum regarding joint political, security and economic cooperation. Israel was highly pleased to be considered as "a major non-NATO ally of the United States." The agreement established a comprehensive framework for continued consultation and cooperation and appointed a number of officials to meet regularly for joint discussions of current issues. The agreement was one of the most comprehensive ever signed between the two countries and marked a major turning point in their relations, in spite of ongoing differences of opinion on the peace process. Text:[/b][/i]

[b]Preamble[/b]

The parties to this Memorandum of Agreement reaffirm the close relationship between Israel and the United States of America, based upon common goals, interests, and values; welcome the achievements made in strategic, economic, industrial and technological cooperation; recognize the mutual benefits of the Israel-United States Free Trade Agreement; take note of United States economic and security assistance to Israel; and note that Israel is currently designated, for the purposes of Section 1105 of the 1987 National Defense Authorization Act, as a major non-NATO ally of the United States. The parties wish to enhance their relationship through the establishment of a comprehensive framework for continued consultation and cooperation and have reached the following agreements in order to achieve this aim.

[b]Article I[/b]

Israel and the United States recognize the value of their unique dialogue and agree to continue frequent consultations and periodic meetings between the president and the prime minister, between the secretary of state and the minister of foreign affairs, between the secretary of defense and the minister of defense, and between other Cabinet-level officials. In these meetings, international and bilateral issues of immediate and significant concern to both countries will be discussed as appropriate.

[b]Article II[/b]

A. The director general of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the undersecretary of state for political affairs will meet regularly, for a Joint Political Consultation (JPQ to discuss a wide range of international issues of mutual interest with a view toward increasing their mutual understanding and appreciation of these issues.

B. The United States Agency for International Development and Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Division of International Cooperation (Mashav) meet periodically to coordinate and facilitate, as appropriate, programs of cooperative assistance to developing countries.

- continued -

[b]Article III[/b]

Israel and the United States reaffirm the importance of the following Israeli-U.S. Joint Groups:

A. The Joint Political Military Group (JPMG) is the forum in which the two states discuss and implement, pursuant to existing arrangements, joint cooperative efforts such as combined planning, joint exercises, and logistics. The JPMG also discusses current political-military issues of mutual strategic concern.

1. The JPMG is a binational, interagency group co-chaired by the director general of the Israeli Ministry of Defense and the U.S. assistant secretary of state for politico-military affairs.

2. The JPMG normally meets biannually, alternating between Israel and the United States.

B. The Joint Security Assistance Planning Group (JSAP) is the forum in which the two states review Israel's requests for security assistance in light of current threat assessments and U.S. budgetary capabilities, and agree upon proposed levels of security assistance. The JSAP also discusses issues related to security assistance, such as industrial and technological cooperation, as well as issues related to Israel's inclusion among those countries currently designated as major non-NATO allies of the United States for the purpose of cooperative research and development under Section 1105 of the 1987 National Defense Authorization Act.

1. The JSAP is a binational, interagency group co-chaired by the director general of the Ministry of Defense and the undersecretary of state for security assistance, science and technology.

2. The JSAP currently meets annually, in Washington, D.C.

C. The Joint Economic Development Group (JEDG) is the forum which discusses developments in Israel's economy. With a view to stimulating economic growth and self-reliance, the JEDG exchanges views on Israeli economic policy planning, stabilization efforts, and structural reform. The JEDG also evaluates Israel's requests for U.S. economic assistance.

1. The JEDG is a binational, interagency group co-chaired by the director general of the Ministry of Finance and the undersecretary of state for economic affairs. The group includes private U.S. and Israeli economists invited by their respective countries.

2. The JEDG currently meets biannually, alternating between the United States and Israel.

[b]Article IV[/b]

This Memorandum of Agreement does not derogate from any existing agreements or undertakings between the two states nor in any way prejudices the rights and obligations of either state under the Charter of the United Nations or under international law. In accordance with the above, the parties reaffirm their aspirations to live in peace with all countries. This agreement shall come into effect upon signature, shall be valid for an initial period of five years, and shall thereafter be renewed for additional periods of five years unless either party notifies the other prior to the expiration of a five-year period that it wishes to terminate the agreement.

DONE at Jerusalem and at Washington, in duplicate, in the English language, the fourth day of Iyar, 5748, the twenty-first of April, 1988.

FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL:
Yitzhak Shamir
Prime Minister of Israel

FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
Ronald Reagan
President of the U.S.A."

From the Israeli Minstry of Foreign Affiars: [url]http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/home.asp[/url]

Eric The(Historical)Hun[>]:)]