A lot better happen November 2014



 

I deal with fatca as a portion of my duties at work.  The US govt is broke, and are chasing down every dime from every US citizen everywhere in the world.  That is what fatca comes down to.

And if you think other nations will tell the US to suck a dick then think again.  Most of them JUMPED at the realization that they could do the same to their citizens, and they already have.

I.E. fill this out and hand it in, along with your ID, so we know your citizenship and can tax you accordingly.

Just look up forms W-9 and W-8IMY and W-8BEN on the IRS website to see the forms.

late April Fool's Day thread is late.

lol, tell that to Saddam and Gaddafi

Okay, I'll play. What's to prevent the USD from eventually going to zero? Are you saying the Fed could print an unlimited amount of FRN's forever w/o the USD eventually becoming worthless? I fail to see how the intertwining of global economies would prevent this, especially with many countries already moving away from the USD (China and Russia come to mind first).
Tomac

I don't think it will affect US dollar, but it'll have a huge impact on any US individual who wants to open an account overseas.
I can foresee a FATCA reporting charge on any account owned by US citizens, or they might just refuse to allow you to have an account as it's too much hassle.
(It's really hard to see how this whole thing can be cost-effective, the internal administrative cost has got to be huge)

I can only about what this means for NZ. It is nothing to do with the government per-se, it impacts banks and financial organisations.

The banks here are between a rock and a hard place. All this extra reporting costs money (which they can't really recover), but the US government have said it will freeze funds of those banks in the USA (or transiting through,as it often does) as punishment for non-compliance. Also the NZ banks are not allowed (under NZ law) to report this information to the US Government. So the banks want the the law changed, to be allowed to pass this info.

"The Government has stressed the law changes to override New Zealanders' privacy protections will affect only expat Americans.  Those affected could include high-profile New Zealanders in entertainment, sports and business who have previously lived in the US. Under US law, any Kiwi who has a green card, or US residency, is liable to pay tax in the US, even if they have not lived there for decades. Likewise, any New Zealander born to an American parent is a default US citizen and required to pay tax there, even if they have never left New Zealand."

American tax grab may target Kiwis

3Q 2015 is my concern... take with a grain of salt.  

The Free-Market, it always wins.


The things that have to happen to make OUR Dollar go to zero would leave US in a state of Anarchy & WE haven't given up on OUR Constitution, yet.


Anytime Government gets out of control economically, WE suffer, but, eventually, demand an end to the insanity...eventually


The current Money manipulation falls into the category, 'Well, if everyone's doing it...'


OUR Dollar sets the Pricing of everything, Globally.


China & Russia are in desperation mode, they have major social & economic problems and are Communist Ideologues.


I think the People will pick Freedom every time.


OUR 'Leadership' has chosen a proven path to Failure, that contradicts all WE stand for, so it's normal for US to be ridiculed, doubted and mocked; It doesn't mean the End is near.


I can't say you're wrong, but I can't see anyone in the near future replacing the American Consumer or Dollar





 

The" dollar" is worth so little now that it can't "crash".
In any case, you will be required by law to accept "dollars" in payment and to pay taxes in "dollars" so long as FedGov exists.

lol wat?

"Document that Guarantees" freedom.  ROLF.   Sir, the notion that a piece of paper guarantees anyting is magical thinking.   The only thing that guarnanttees anyting  is force or the threat of force.  That applies to freedom most of all.  The limits are tyranny are exactly right up to what people will accept w/o using force against the government's (law) enforcers.  

There is some value to constitutionalism in that it is a sort of moral standard that is held up that can be pointed to, a social convention that gives moral credibility to those who protest tyrannical laws or lawlessness, but ultimately, tyranny only stops where it meets real force.

Secondly, we are far from teh only nation that has a document that "guarantees" freedom.  Most nations have some sort of document enshrining rights.  Point of fact, even mao's china and the USSR had constitutions that guaranteed the right to demonstrate, protest, freedom of press etc etc.   The one glaring exception was that these document did NOT guarantee an individual right to bear arms.  Are you seeing the connectino here?

Thirdly, in fact, the US government is woefully tyrannical or it is woefully inadequate at protecting our rights from violations by the state/local governments, or it creates incentives for the states to violate our rights (ie federal WOD grants).    
-NSA siezing ALL of your electronic/phone network records.  
-asset forefiture
-guilty till proven innocent if you have a few grand in cash
-IRS has long been deemed to be exempt from 4th amendment restrictions
-can be setn to prison as a felon for carrying a gun in many places
-can be stopped and hassled just for carrying a gun and made to prove your innocence.
-are effectively banned from owning machine guns
-are banned from owning all manner of weapons in various localities
-made to pay "taxes" to exercise cetain second amendent rights
-born into massive state debt
-cops can simply say they smell MJ or that their dog signaled and circumvent your 4th amendment rights arbitrarily
-cops can detain you, search you, shoot you in a limitless number of circumstances all in the name of officer safety
-don't even get me starterd on the absolute lack of constitutional protections in "family court." (not that I've ever been there myself)
-theoretically can be dissappeared w/o trial etc per the patriao act/NDAA
-are prohibited from starting all sort of capitolistic ventures by government barriers to entry (eg annual distilation license of hundreds of thousands of dollars/year).
-even the ordinary hourly wage earner has funds extorted from his paycheck
-has 25% of the worlds' incarcirated population (w/ 5% total pop) due mostly to a war on people for posessing a fucking plant that is less troublesome than alchahol
-every fucking small town force and state and federal bureacracy now has a swat team.
-non voluntary participation in SS, obama care etc etc

If you think this is freedom, I am so sad for you sir.


As to the rest of the world:
the dollar is not freedom to the rest of the world, it is slavery.  Our gov wants to run massive deficits perpetually.  As such, they force the rest of the world to sell/buy oil in USD or we invade the county.  Of course, millions of people have died in Iraq as a result of the invasion, hardly any of them actually being saddam's forces, insuragents, or terrorists.  The vast majority being random civilians who were "collateral" damage of violence, admittely sometiems just intersectarian violence, and the rest dying for incidental lack of medical care for appendicidus etc or from cholera etc.   I'm pretty sure if they were polled, they would rather the US have not invaded.

I'm not necessarily arguing for a gold standard or anyting.  Just that we should not abuse our privlidge as issuer of the WRC, that we should enitce others to use our dollar in internatinoal settlement by being fiscally responsible rather than by forcing them to use it at the barrel of a gun.

To another poster:
I dont' think we direclty force people to settle other interational debt in USD, but it is used as such since everyone has it and needs it and it is a good unit of account (stable).

Re OP:
OP, as others have sttated, the only thing that can cause the dollar to "collapse" will be if it it is repuditated for use in internatinoal oil/trade settlement and/or when the Fed becomes the ONLY buyer at bond auctions, at which point we would go the way of argentina.  This thing you speak of is just nickle & dime bullshit in the grander scheme, an attempt to wring out some more revenue.  This will NOT have a significant impact on the dollar's use as WRC

the pound is to date the only one that hasn't failed, that is more than 100 yrs old.

I see what you did there Will.

Fruitcake thread just continues to get fruitier...

It'saTARP.jpg?

In preparation for this inevitable collapse I have asked my employer to pay me in Canadian Tire Money aka CTM.
They said they will forward my request to HR first.

Not believing in OUR Constitution would explain the disconnect you describe, you point out many of the Conspiratorial talking points.



A minority are acting as 'Tyrants', so it's up to WE the People to fire them and correct their wrongs; The Majority have not experienced what you describe.

Radio/Television personalities dramatize much of what you described in order to get US to 'tune in tomorrow' & get the Emotional Debate started all over again.



The Political Pimps are failing, not OUR Constitution, so, please, appreciate it, instead of doubting what it stands for.

WE have a duty to Participate in OUR System, and hold the 'Traitors to the Constitution' accountable; too many Citizens choose not to & that's OUR Problem to solve.



Since you seem to think America has become the World's Villain, which Country has a better system of Government you'd like to adopt?
 

well before I go all postal ans stuff. I'll need to see where this was presented in the Senate, and passed and signed by bone head.

I keep up on things and haven't ever heard a word about this so....

enlighten me.

If they have US presence and are in American markets or anywhere the USA has pull and reach...Quite a lot. This is a shake down of people smart enough to have money out of this country. Uncle is desperate to keep spending.

Pimp smack.

While many do not foresee this as a threat to our everyday lives I strongly plea for you to research this bill and understand that this could become the end of our dollar as we know it.  I understand that majority believes since our real estate has rebounded and the stock markets at all-time highs. This is giving us a false high. Our economy is currently in a historical dangerous place and could collapse at any time. Although I will explain why I believe this bill will be the reason for the collapse of the American Dollar.

We all can remember the 2008 disaster and how many thousands of dollars we lost in our 401ks along with many losing their homes and jobs. Our national debt has risen so much and our spending is so out of control we could never repay our debt. There is coming a time where America will not be able to pay the interest of the loans we have. The United Stated is spending $200 million every hour of every day including weekends and holidays. The United stated has more debt than any other country in the world and we have more debt that the European union combine.

I know most feel like we are enjoying an economic recovery although we are about to be faced with a real disaster. The American Dollar is the world’s reserve currency. It is what banks around the world hold in reserve against their loans. China is already phasing out the dollar as its reserve currency due to their belief that the dollar is a risk of collapse. Russia is also about to phase out the dollar and start their own reserve as well.  Our dollar can and will fall it is just a matter of when. Soon the American dollar will not be the world’s reserve currency.

The only reason we have not had a collapse yet is because we have the capability to print money. We can only keep print the money as long as the American dollar remains the world reserve currency. The IMF issued a report on a possible replacement for the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. The IMF is calling for a new “Global currency”. This is why this HR 2847 is very important to understand. FACTA stands for Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act. Starting July 1, 2014 it will force all worldwide banks to comply with the IRS if they have any transactions in the American Dollar. Meaning almost all banks worldwide will have to comply with the regulations that are forced upon them, since the American dollar is the world reserve currency. For these banks to comply they will spend countless amounts of money to track and taxing their transactions which could cause them to get rid of the American customers.

I foresee banks and countries across our globe to move away from the American dollar. I foresee more currency agreements between countries that no longer will be back by the American dollar. This can cause the American dollar to collapse. I know you believe this cannot happen here in America. Just look around it is happening already and there are signs everywhere that shows this is extremely possible. I believe this is still a year or so away. Although when it comes there is no more warnings it will happen overnight.

Who can't spell Mayans.

So what if the rest of the world is running deficits?  It is their own currency and their own problem?  They, not having the  WRC, are not in a position to fuck over the rest of the world by selling off the futures of their unborn w/ their deficits.  

If all we did was abuse the dollar by running deficts that wouldn't be so bad aginst the rest of the world.  What really makes it vile is using force to maintain the petro dollar.  Our rulers would rather cause a humanitarian disaster in other nations than not be able to pay back lobbiest w/ pork and bribe voters w/ the wealth of the unborn, all so they can maintin their individual positions of power.

If america.gov led by example, by respeciting the limits of the constitution being fiscally responsible so that every nation would WANT to use and hold our dollar that the dollar would be a force of freedom the world around.  Currently the dollar WRC system is slavery, not freedom for the rest of the world, and slavery to our own unborn.

Yeah, I'm not saying that our constitution, or constitutionalism is to  blame.  I do think that things would be worse w/o a constitution and the underlying anglo-american culture that led to it.   This traditionally made rulers at least seek to have an appearance of legality in what they did rather than just ruling by fiat.  Of course, now our rulers act as if any of their whims could not be but constitutional (Peloci: "Are you serious?  Are you serious?")

The fact is that our constution has been powerless to stop what has become the largest most powerful government the world has ever seen.  It is also a fact that the federal government, though not so evil and destructive as some regimes like stalin etc, has been a destructive force the world around for large parts of the last ca 200 years, going back to the trail of tears, civil war (not that the CSA was better), indian wars and bananna wars (on behalf of the united fruit co).  Why don't you read Chesty Puller's book about the bananna wars.  

If you want to say, "well the constitution didn't fail, we did..."  that if fine, but that is semantics.  Fact is that the constitution, though it enshrines many of our nobler values, has not stopped the growth of government any more than carrying a hankerchief w/ Benny Hinn's sweat has stopped cancer.
ETA:

Yes, the IMF is esseittially a american institution and it controld the western international wire transfer system, forget what that is called, but it is a single point of control over international flows of money.

I have strongly considered your plea and strongly decided to strongly laugh as strongly as I did before.

Sir,
many of us understand how much of the rest of the world is struggling to get out from under the dollar, all the bilateral trade agreements of the BRICS etc.  Also, how russia is trying to set up a new internatinoal wire system, and how the east is hoarding gold and so forth.  We understand how if the rest of the world is not compelled to use the USD and buy bonds at actuaion that could lead to a massive budget crisis that would severly disrupt our economy since so much of it is dependent on federal spending.  

What we don't understand is how forcing foreign banks to either spend lots of money to host US expat's accounts or to rather decline holding account for american's is that big of a deal in the larger context of the petro dollar system?

Yes, it is just someitng else that will piss the rest of the world off and be odious to them, but in the greater scheme of things this is just nickle and diming BS.

August 2015

If the dollar does crash, it will certainly not be because of FATCA.

sorry to hijack, some selections from the '36 USSR Constitution:

Article 48. Citizens of the USSR have the right to take part in the management and administration of state and public affairs and in the discussion and adoption of laws and measures of All-Union and local significance....

Article 50. In accordance with the interests of the people and in order to strengthen and develop the socialist system, citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly, meetings, street processions and demonstrations.
Exercise of these political freedoms is ensured by putting public buildings...

Article 51. In accordance with the aims of building communism, citizens of the USSR have the right to associate in public organisations that promote their political activity and initiative and satisfaction of their various interests...

Article 52. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda ...

Article 54. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed inviolability of the person. No one may be arrested except by a court decision or on the warrant of a procurator.

Article 55. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed inviolability of the home. No one may, without lawful grounds, enter a home against the will of those residing in it.

Article 56. The privacy of citizens, and of their correspondence, telephone conversations, and telegraphic communications is protected by law.

Article 57. Respect for the individual and protection of the rights and freedoms of citizens are the duty of all state bodies...

Article 58. Citizens of the USSR have the right to lodge a complaint against the actions of officials, state bodies and public bodies...


I'm not going to spoon feed you anymore copypasta, but if you google you will find similar sentiments in the constitutions of communist china, vietnam, and myrian other oppressive regimes.  

The difference b/t them and us is not that we have a constitution, though it was sort of originally our idea.   The difference is that we have a cultural heritage of the rule of law and limits on government powers going back to he magna carta and beyond, which were hard fought for by men who put their blood and treasure on the line used violence against the king's (law) enforcers.  And, that we have the second amendment, which frankly shoudl be its own entire section of the document b/t the constitution and the billl of rights, or should infact be a preamble to the constitution b/c when the formalities of law and the shame of the enforcers fail, only force can meet tyranny.

Yeah, if it does then it's merely the straw that breaks the camel's back and not especially significant otherwise.  I will predict that the USA will either restart QE this year or the Federal Reserve will simply start funding the Federal Government on the down-low and be done with it in perpetuity.

The cheerleaders for recovery are ignoring the unemployment/workforce participation issues- and that fantasy ignores even Keynesian economics and is straight out of progressive la-la land.

Neat?

You obviously hate freedom and are likely a government plant (maybe a ficus benjamina).

simple answer is NO

FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:

Go look up FATCA and FBAR- if you are a US citizens, resident, visa holder, etc., you have to comply with the IRS worldwide....  Moreover, this is dictating laws to sovereign nations that those nations banks must comply with in that nation IE New Zealand or Germany, Singapore, China, etc.  Its flight tax.  Cicero fucked around with the same thing.  

Now, if you are a US expatriate, and have to comply with this can you afford the accountant, the lawyer, the BS, the flights to a place to acquire such services, and do those added costs help your business?  

They did not help mine, and I am done.  Either the US government realizes its idiocy which is a fat chance, the world realizes that with the NSA the US Government wants to control those nations banks and banking also, or US expatriates renounce and the US and US businesses that need English speaking businessmen and women the world over start suffering.  Sure, tourist visas can be had for some time till everyone figures out being from the US is considered Toxic in Finance, Software, Banking, ETC.  Destroy itself.

Ignorant fellow Americans would do well to read this post...

The banks will likely not want to bother w/ the costs of compliance to US demans except for very large accounts that don't have lots of activity and so will jettison these accounts unless said account holders jettison their citizenship, many of whom, like canadian border babies or Kiwi w/ US dad's, will do so w/o hesitation if it becomes a problem.

If you could carry a gun in NZ, I would try like hell to move there.

I really screwed up I meant that this post by young-kiwi really needs to be read.  The other posts had alot of truth(s) to it too, though .    

why don't you go back and edit out the post where you quoted that entire long converstaion b/t me & glockO to keep the thread from getting too busy.  Just click edit and delete everyting and type "nevermind" or someing.

WE can debate things all day long and hopefully learn something.



Your statements to prove yourself correct have been well noted.
Now why don't you take down this picture Mocking OUR Heroes, and show some respect.



There are a million other examples you could have picked & this was a very poor choice to prove a point.
 

were the troops putting down insurrections in latin america on behalf of the united fruit company in the early 20th century "heros,?" objectively speaking anyway, regardless of the nobel intentinos of the man who enlisted?

I think it is nobel to volunteer to protect one's homeland.  I dont' think its nobel when our rulers abuse that service and send them off in wars for reasons other than to defend our nation from actual martial threat, or that are reckless and cause human suffering all out of proportion to the good that they do.

I think that most men who volunteered adn ended up gonig to iraq were fundementally good people.  But, IMO iraq and the world at large was better off before hand.  Watch "iraq a decade of hell" to understand the costs of the war over there.  it cost a lot more than some money and ca 5k US service men.  
The picture speaks of the irony of going in to "liberate" a place but destroying it in the process, similar to this.