In the Marines, the captain looks at his company, salutes, and say's " go get em guy's" In the Army, the lieutenant looks at his platoon, salutes, and say's " go get em guy's"

if he's a real leader, he says follow me. and in combat if he salutes he's a cherry. the only thing i wanna see is the back of his kevlar. and most the time you hear it from a squad leader anyway.

Is the Air Force really "better" than the Marine Corps?  That's subjective.

It is obviously "different", and it's different in a good way!

Quoted: This interservice billy bad-ass rivalry shit is stupid!

No its not.  It's fun and most people that I know in the service enjoy flicking each other shit.  It's always been that way and I hope it always will.   We give each other a hard time because of the town and/or state that we are from, the high school we went to, the college we went to, the car we drive, etc., etc., etc.  People don't need to be so thin-skinned.

By the way, there is a reason that the Air Force wears "powder blue."

USN

Hands down, the AF treats their people 100% percent better.

If the Corps has a dollar, they will spend it 49% on training, 49% on gear, and 1% on the men (with the other 1% going for O stuff like housing, clubs, private pools and marinas)

The air force gets a little more money, and rakes more money off for their troops (and follows through with quality of life decisions that make life better).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That maybe so but the marines don't get attacked by crazy egpytians.   October 23rd, 1983. And "Marines" is capitalized, douche bag. So is "Egyptians".

True, but I've never been an Egyptian.

Quoted: Quoted: This interservice billy bad-ass rivalry shit is stupid! No its not.  It's fun and most people that I know in the service enjoy flicking each other shit.  It's always been that way and I hope it always will.   We give each other a hard time because of the town and/or state that we are from, the high school we went to, the college we went to, the car we drive, etc., etc., etc.  People don't need to be so thin-skinned. USN

+1!

The members of the various branches have always picked on eachother.  This is no place for PC hypersensitivity.

When I first met my wife she was an optician working in the clinic on the Charleston Naval Base.  I'd walk into the clinic and call out, "Ahoy, Rustpickers!" to her coworkers.  They'd reply with a heartfelt, "Damned Zoomie!"  Lots of picking, no hurt feelings or fisticuffs.

Besides, there's something inwardly satisfying about calling a Soldier a Gravel Agitator.

Chair Power.....

yea i deal with the air force a lot- there are a bunch of them who are libs... i have never met a lib Marine...  they seem to get the desk job attitude (wonder why) like someone who would work in a corproate office would get and forget about the big picture out in the field. we have more then a few here doing just that- they're voting Kerry, and think we shouldn't be over in Iraq or even A'stan... Yea I was gonna go in the air force but after thinking for a min I decided I'd rather be a Marine like i've wanted to be and fly for them. I have no probs with the air force- they do their job and they do it well... but i love air force guys talking shit who've never gotten their boots dirty.

the lowest person in the navy is seaman- the hightest admrial
the lowest person in the army is private- the highest general
the lowest person in the air force is airman- the highest general

but the lowest and highest person in the Marines are both called Marine

again, diffrent- the air force does what they do... they do it well... but I'd rather be out in the mud as a Marine....
as for the Marines becomming pussies after Chesty...... just no.... look at our guys over there now...

-Roth

I have spent 22 years combined active and guard and just re-enlisted for 3 more,,,,,in the Air Force.  For those of you who don't know and cannot spell well enough to get into the military it is TWO words, Air Force.   Airman is a proper name, so you capitalize it.  The rest of the military has followed the Marines who decided that a Marine was a proper name.  

I happen to like the Air Force, I have deployed with the Army and the Navy and the Marines.  We have better quarters, nobody doubts that for an instant.  I think the Marines has better NCO's for the most part, they actually train them to take care of their troops, the Air Force trains them to take care of themselves.  This is something I have always objected too. The Navy contains the most bizarre bunch of idiots I have ever seen with the strangest behavior.  That is just my opinion though.

If you need something stolen or broken, the Army is the place to go.  When we worked with them, we had a guy actually bring his large ruck to work so he could steal backpacks from the break area.  They started a drunken fight on the base bus and when they were dropped off in front of their billet the retards stood in the yard and threw bricks at the bus as is drove back by.   I had two Army guys from my career field to work with on our site, one was a 2 year E-5 with ZERO skills, he had got promoted because he "maxed the PT test and had a year of college". The other guy had been in 16 months was an E-4 and had not worked on anything since school.  They were nice guys but utterly useless for anything other than fence patrol.  

Every service has highs and lows.  I happen to think the smartest people are in the Air Force.  At least the Air Force requires some skills in your chosen career field before you get promoted.  I need a guy that can fix a plane,,,,,,not pick it up or jog along with it as it taxis.

Despite all of the bitching between the services, be it good natured or true dislike for another branch.  The last time I checked every Coasty, Soldier, Airman, Sailor, and Marine saluted the same flag and bleeds the same blood.  Especially, when the Red Cross comes around for a donation.

I’m a brat and have/had relatives in 3 of the 5 branches.  I have seen the same petty bullshit between the units in any one branch.

People are people.

So if you do not STFU you will be transfer to a French unit.

Quoted: Despite all of the bitching between the services, be it good natured or true dislike for another branch.  The last time I checked every Coasty, Soldier, Airman, Sailor, and Marine saluted the same flag and bleeds the same blood.  Especially, when the Red Cross comes around for a donation. I’m a brat and have/had relatives in 3 of the 5 branches.  I have seen the same petty bullshit between the units in any one branch. People are people. So if you do not STFU you will be transfer to a French unit.

bingo- we all talk the shit but when it comes down to it we fight the same baddies....

that being said the Corps is the best

-Roth

Quoted: that being said the Corps is the best -Roth

DOH!  Here we go again!!!

Quoted: He is an imagery analyst

Let me guess, he's at Beale.  I'm currently stationed at Beale and I've got to say Kali isn't nearly as piss ant sissy as I thought it would be.  If anything, the subjects of this state (and especially of the illustrious town of Linda) have very little regard for themselves.  I've almost bounced about 9 subjects off of the hood of my car in the last four months alone.  They just wander around the busy streets as if told to "go play in traffic".  Mostly I feel bad for Kalifornians.  Most that I have encountered seem like broken people.

That being said, I refuse to go to one of the major cities.  I've got some TDYs coming up in San Diego and I sometimes go to Sacramento, so we'll see.

As for the liberalism of the AF, I'd say that maybe 1/8, if that, could be sorted into the liberal pile.  That's pretty good considering that if the AF reflected American society, it would be nearly 1/3.

Quoted: I have respect for the SP's and the PJ's and AF units that actually work with the Army. But for the AF in general that attitide seems to prevail. I lost two good soldiers of mine because of the AF, my compnay lost 5. Why? We cross leveld 8 to another USAR unit that was being mobilized to go guard an AF base. Every one of them said the SP's were great and treated them well, but the rest of the organization treated them like crap. The biggest gripe was that the AF refused to make its own people pony up and pull a few hours duty on the gates, instead only overworking the SP's and the Army guys while the majority on the post worked a 40 hour work week as if nothing had changed.  Note that none of those who were in this unit were MP's or had any more training than the AF could have given its personell in a few hours. We lost 5 of the 8 after that deployment ended. Contrast that with the 39 we cross leveld to a unit that was with the 1st MEF for OIF, actually was part of the drive north, and saw some action. We lost 2 of those 39 when they got back..... because despite the fact that they were in much crappier conditions, they had a real viable mission, were needed, and were treated well. They felt like that mission was worth being called away from home and family for. The guys called to the AF base felt they were there only so the "whiny prima-donnas blue didn't have to stand outside for a few hours" as one of them put it.

So let me get this straight.  You want a finance troop (or equal) to augment the SF of an AF base?  First of all, no.  Typically these folks will qualify with an M-16 every two years, maybe every one year, depending on their job.  Most will never pick up an M-9.  Then, would you like to give this troop some "special training" to bring them to the standard required for them to be qualified to guard the gate?  In addition to their assigned specialty.

The AF is going through this fun little thing called "Force Shaping" right now.  Most career fields are being reduced, with few gaining new accessions during FY 05.  Basically we are tapped out just like the rest of the military.

I'll add more later.  I've gotta go.

As with so many other things in this life, there are pros and cons.  No one can deny the quality of life is better on an Air Force base.  But, when one is up there flying around and getting shot at, can't see much difference.  And, if one is down in hostile areas, you better have it together.  Let's see, being down, probably with something broken, with perhaps one other guy, running around trying to avoid hostiles, and armed only with a small popgun. Or would one rather be with a squad of Marines, trained and equipped for this?   So, while the Air Force lives well, it isn'[t always easy.  Been in the former (on the ground) situation, and was glad to see a squad of Marines pull my sorry ass out of the jungle.  Thanks, guys!

Quoted: Quoted: I have respect for the SP's and the PJ's and AF units that actually work with the Army. But for the AF in general that attitide seems to prevail. I lost two good soldiers of mine because of the AF, my compnay lost 5. Why? We cross leveld 8 to another USAR unit that was being mobilized to go guard an AF base. Every one of them said the SP's were great and treated them well, but the rest of the organization treated them like crap. The biggest gripe was that the AF refused to make its own people pony up and pull a few hours duty on the gates, instead only overworking the SP's and the Army guys while the majority on the post worked a 40 hour work week as if nothing had changed.  Note that none of those who were in this unit were MP's or had any more training than the AF could have given its personell in a few hours. We lost 5 of the 8 after that deployment ended. Contrast that with the 39 we cross leveld to a unit that was with the 1st MEF for OIF, actually was part of the drive north, and saw some action. We lost 2 of those 39 when they got back..... because despite the fact that they were in much crappier conditions, they had a real viable mission, were needed, and were treated well. They felt like that mission was worth being called away from home and family for. The guys called to the AF base felt they were there only so the "whiny prima-donnas blue didn't have to stand outside for a few hours" as one of them put it. So let me get this straight.  You want a finance troop (or equal) to augment the SF of an AF base?  First of all, no.  Typically these folks will qualify with an M-16 every two years, maybe every one year, depending on their job.  Most will never pick up an M-9.  Then, would you like to give this troop some "special training" to bring them to the standard required for them to be qualified to guard the gate?  In addition to their assigned specialty.

Well, yes. Most of the troops the Army deployed to guard the AF bases were not MP's. They were not Infantry. I know of at least one Finance company, one QM company, and one Maintenance company.

Yup, clerks and mechanics. Who qualify once a year and 99% of whom had never fired an M-9... just like those AF ones you say are not qualified to do the job.

So instead of ponying up and putting forth the extra effort to do it themselves, they called up NG and USAR.

I guess an Army finance clerk, many of whom are in that job because it is one of the very few where you can have a physical profile that would eliminate you from almost all other Army jobs, is equal to AF SF in thier eyes, I dunno. I can't figure it out.

Marines are part of the Navy. We keep the jarheads seperate 'cause we don't want them touching our stuff.

USN

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have respect for the SP's and the PJ's and AF units that actually work with the Army. But for the AF in general that attitide seems to prevail. I lost two good soldiers of mine because of the AF, my compnay lost 5. Why? We cross leveld 8 to another USAR unit that was being mobilized to go guard an AF base. Every one of them said the SP's were great and treated them well, but the rest of the organization treated them like crap. The biggest gripe was that the AF refused to make its own people pony up and pull a few hours duty on the gates, instead only overworking the SP's and the Army guys while the majority on the post worked a 40 hour work week as if nothing had changed.  Note that none of those who were in this unit were MP's or had any more training than the AF could have given its personell in a few hours. We lost 5 of the 8 after that deployment ended. Contrast that with the 39 we cross leveld to a unit that was with the 1st MEF for OIF, actually was part of the drive north, and saw some action. We lost 2 of those 39 when they got back..... because despite the fact that they were in much crappier conditions, they had a real viable mission, were needed, and were treated well. They felt like that mission was worth being called away from home and family for. The guys called to the AF base felt they were there only so the "whiny prima-donnas blue didn't have to stand outside for a few hours" as one of them put it. So let me get this straight.  You want [an AF] finance troop (or equal) to augment the SF of an AF base?  First of all, no.  Typically these folks will qualify with an M-16 every two years, maybe every one year, depending on their job.  Most will never pick up an M-9.  Then, would you like to give this troop some "special training" to bring them to the standard required for them to be qualified to guard the gate?  In addition to their assigned specialty. Well, yes. the troops the Army deployed to guard the AF bases were not MP's. They were not Infantry. I know of at least one Finance company, one QM company, and one Maintenance company. Yup, clerks and mechanics. Who qualify once a year and 99% of whom had never fired an M-9... just like those AF ones you say are not qualified to do the job. So instead of ponying up and putting forth the extra effort to do it themselves, they called up NG and USAR. I guess an Army finance clerk, many of whom are in that job because it is one of the very few where you can have a physical profile that would eliminate you from almost all other Army jobs, is equal to AF SF in thier eyes, I dunno. I can't figure it out.

I wasn't reading you right and you weren't reading me right, but we are both in agreement.  I thought you were saying that the Army was sending cops to the AF bases.  So you're saying that the Army is sending finance & other types of troops to AF bases?  That's just plain the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.  I'll do some research on this one, maybe poll some of the Army guys when I come on base next time.

Quoted: Marines are part of the Navy. We keep the jarheads seperate 'cause we don't want them touching our stuff. USN

Oh boy.  Here goes the thread.

INCOMING!!!

For those who seem to think the AF always has it easy and safe:
SSgt Dustin Peters

This guy was a 2T1, Transportation guy, as am I. I have several friends from here at Barksdale who are there right now, with the 494th Expeditionary Truck Co, running gun trucks for convoy escorts. We're coming up in the rotation to go. Now I have the utmost respect for anyone, regardless of branch of service, who does their part, no matter how seemingly small it may be. But for those on here who wish to bash the Air Force, especially those who have never served a day in their life, you are cordially invited to SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!Or better yet, join up. Then what you say may carry some weight.


Flame suit on...

Quoted: For quality of life, the Air Force is better than the Marines. Nobody can argue otherwise. At least nobody who has ever served in the USMC and been on an AF base. Funny thing is, all those AF chicks get real squirmy when the Marines show up. They like a little knuckle dragger in a man.

Sir, it isn't the "knuckle dragging" that gets 'em!    

Quoted: For those who seem to think the AF always has it easy and safe: SSgt Dustin Peters This guy was a 2T1, Transportation guy, as am I. I have several friends from here at Barksdale who are there right now, with the 494th Expeditionary Truck Co, running gun trucks for convoy escorts. We're coming up in the rotation to go. Now I have the utmost respect for anyone, regardless of branch of service, who does their part, no matter how seemingly small it may be. But for those on here who wish to bash the Air Force, especially those who have never served a day in their life, you are cordially invited to SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!Or better yet, join up. Then what you say may carry some weight. Flame suit on...

Most of the dudes talkin in this thread are veterans I think. Just trying to save you the embarassment of calling folks out.

As you will notice, those that rant the most about the AF sucking, are typically serving a hitch as a fry cook at McDonald's and not much else.  One of our fellow members, a buddy of mine and an Air Force member was damn near smoked at BIAP in a rocket attack. Hell they killed a green beret at the damned BX at BIAP.  No place is safe in that part of the world and everybody goes including the Air Force.

Quoted: I wasn't reading you right and you weren't reading me right, but we are both in agreement.  I thought you were saying that the Army was sending cops to the AF bases.  So you're saying that the Army is sending finance & other types of troops to AF bases?  That's just plain the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.  I'll do some research on this one, maybe poll some of the Army guys when I come on base next time.

Here are some links........

146th Signal Battalion provided AF security for 18 months:
www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=6180
www.ngb.army.mil/onguard/32/05/article.asp?aid=1226

Edwards AFB guarded by 1/144th Field Artillery, nut much use for the big guns there:

www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2003/2003-archive-ang_support.html

Ellsworth AFB guarded by the 65th Maintenance Company:
www2.acc.af.mil/accnews/feb03/03041.html


There are more examples but I don't have time to dig em up now.


Note that last link, they recieved 5 days training before they went on the gates.... thats what I heard from my guys who went also. There is no reason why if an Army mechanic can do the job after 5 days that and AF anything can do it after 8 or 10

Quoted: xxxx : we have the same jobs...it'm telling you you would rather be here than the marines xxxx : marines and army guys that are here say that all the time xxxx : our way of life is just better.....they deploy and sleep in the sand and we go to the same place and stay in hotels, we sit in offices drinking coffee and they get shot at and die Not knocking any AF guys here, just my friends take on my decision to join the Marines Edit: he is an imagery analyst

There is no arguing that the air force has better accomadations in general than the other services. There is no arguing that it's a less physically demanding service than the others in general. There is no arguing that the air force has more of a '9 to 5' mentality than the other services. For someone who wants all the benefits of military service without the mud and sweat associated with ground pounding, the air force is an excellent choice. (PJs and combat controllers are obvious exceptions to this.)

Some of us, however, were looking for something less 'corperate' when we enlisted. I'm proud of what I did, in large part because it wasn't easy or comfortable. I wasn't looking for the easist job when I decided to enlist. To each their own.

Quoted: Marines are part of the Navy. We keep the jarheads seperate 'cause we don't want them touching our stuff. USN

And take them on cruises so you have dance partners!

Quoted: photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=141&iGalleryUnq=399&iImageUnq=30737

I'd have to be honest and say that each of those would appeal to or at least not be a problem for me.  

As for the subject, can't say I have any actual animosity towards any of the four branches. But I have used the interservice rivallry to be a bit of a prick.

Didn't get the title of a book from a former 82nd Lady. So she got razzed with "if you want reliable, ask a Marine". And I asked one Sgt Brutus the same question to add a little salt to the wound.

Also the short skinny on a convo about contributing to Robert Young Pelton's The World's Most Dangerous Places. Personally getting info about SERE School...inspired a joke about betraying The U.S. and going Benedict Arnold to hang with the SERE School Cadre.

I have spent 22 years combined active and guard and just re-enlisted for 3 more,,,,,in the Air Force. For those of you who don't know and cannot spell well enough to get into the military it is TWO words, Air Force. Airman is a proper name, so you capitalize it. The rest of the military has followed the Marines who decided that a Marine was a proper name. I happen to like the Air Force, I have deployed with the Army and the Navy and the Marines. We have better quarters, nobody doubts that for an instant. I think the Marines has better NCO's for the most part, they actually train them to take care of their troops, the Air Force trains them to take care of themselves. This is something I have always objected too. The Navy contains the most bizarre bunch of idiots I have ever seen with the strangest behavior. That is just my opinion though. If you need something stolen or broken, the Army is the place to go. When we worked with them, we had a guy actually bring his large ruck to work so he could steal backpacks from the break area. They started a drunken fight on the base bus and when they were dropped off in front of their billet the retards stood in the yard and threw bricks at the bus as is drove back by. I had two Army guys from my career field to work with on our site, one was a 2 year E-5 with ZERO skills, he had got promoted because he "maxed the PT test and had a year of college". The other guy had been in 16 months was an E-4 and had not worked on anything since school. They were nice guys but utterly useless for anything other than fence patrol. Every service has highs and lows. I happen to think the smartest people are in the Air Force. At least the Air Force requires some skills in your chosen career field before you get promoted. I need a guy that can fix a plane,,,,,,not pick it up or jog along with it as it taxis.

As a former USAF Security Police NCO I would agree with the above.  I worked and went to service schools with all our sister services.  I would rank the quality of manpower/material as follows:
1. USAF
2. Marines
3. Coast Guard
4. USN
5. Army

As far as how the troops behaved, I would rank the USN dead last.  They really produced some bazarre individuals.  Their petty officers also were in the habit of disiplining their men with their fists.
The army people were much better behaved than the Navy men, but you were not dealing with Einsteins.  The Navy too had a real huge gulf between their officers and enlisted men.  Naval officers really looked at their men as animals.  This is info that I gathered from my active duty service time dating 1980-84.  It could be different now.

Quoted: Quoted: So let me get this straight.  You want a finance troop (or equal) to augment the SF of an AF base?  First of all, no.  Typically these folks will qualify with an M-16 every two years, maybe every one year, depending on their job.  Most will never pick up an M-9.  Then, would you like to give this troop some "special training" to bring them to the standard required for them to be qualified to guard the gate?  In addition to their assigned specialty. Well, yes. Most of the troops the Army deployed to guard the AF bases were not MP's. They were not Infantry. I know of at least one Finance company, one QM company, and one Maintenance company. Yup, clerks and mechanics. Who qualify once a year and 99% of whom had never fired an M-9... just like those AF ones you say are not qualified to do the job.

My experience is 10+ years old, but the above info about USAF weapons qualification is in error, and I can assure you that the Army clerks and mechanics were not "just like those AF ones".  

Unless you're an SP or PJ or something like that, you get the following:
- 4 hours in basic in a classroom being told how not to shoot yourself or the person next to you.  A few days later you go to a range, fire a few rounds to zero then fire 40 rounds to qualify.
- Before deploying on an overseas assignment, you will get a 1 day class where you spend the morning being told how to take the M16 apart and put it back together.  You lube the rifle then go to lunch.  After lunch you go to the range, fire a few rounds to zero the rifle then fire 40 to qualify.  After everybody fires you clean the rifle and go home.

And that's it.  If your not an SP or anything then the only malfunction clearance drill you're taught is to raise your hand and wait for soembody to come and clear it for you.  The ranges are only 25 yards long and you only fire at static paper targets.  I was in the AirForce for 7 years and I went to the range only twice and fired less than 100 rounds through the M16 and received no training in other weapons.   Some units were designated as mobility units and they got more training, but not much more.

As for the politics of people in the Air Force, I was disgusted at the number of liberals I met.  Worst case example was my last NCOIC who did nothing but gush on and on about how wonderful and talented Babs is and told everybody who would listen that Hillary was the best role model for a woman that she'd ever seen.  

Most of the junior enlisted people I worked with went into the Air Force because the factory in their home town wasn't hiring and they needed to get a job somewhere and they figured AF would be the easiest.  They spent 18+ years with their factory-working, union-member fathers and grandfathers telling them that "so long as there's a Democrat in office they'll never go hungry."  Most of them were apolitical and  didn't want to take even a few minutes to think about any sort of issues.  For most people the Air Force is a 9-5 job with a dress code that is more strict than other 9-5 jobs.  In other branches you get deployed and come face to face with reality.  Most of the senior NCOs I worked with seemed competent and tended to be conservative, but many of them also put in for reirement as soon as Clinton was elected.  Most of the other NCOs I worked with were the same as the junior enlisted except that they had more time in.  

I was in communications and spent 18 months at a NATO assignment working with Soldiers and Sailors who supposedly had the same job description as me, but they had received much better training.  If you're in the field or on a ship then you need everybody to know as much as possible about their equipment and be able to fill as many roles as possible because you can't just call in a specialist when a difficult problem comes up.  Working with Army and Navy personnel made me much better at mine but eventually led to trouble because I was a lot less willing to put up with substandard performance when I went back to a regular AF assignment.  

Yah, and the CHAir Force sends it's Officers to die instead of the enlisted. But which one will you have more pride in serving in?... Once a Marine always a Marine, you would be part a a brotherhood that is time tested and Honored. Do what you want, Opinions are like A$$holes, everyone has one, some even have two.

Again with the bitching about guarding an air base.  I notice several things from you whining ladies, first is that none of your ever guarded an air base, second is that NONE of you ever actually talked to anyone who actually did the job.

We had some of the local Army guard guys at ours for a while, it was short term they liked the job and the billets and the augmentee chicks they got to hump.  Most folks in semi-useless careers like persco and supply get to pull gate-guard duty as well.  If you work on planes and the planes deploy, you are not there to guard shit, you go with the planes.  If you are in CE, you are most likely gone anyway and if you are a security forces guy you are probably gone as well.

Quoted: Quoted: I retired from the Air Force after 24 years in 2000. Think about this: In the Marines, the captain looks at his company, salutes, and say's " go get em guy's" In the Army, the lieutenant looks at his platoon, salutes, and say's " go get em guy's" In the Air Force, the airman looks at the Captain getting into his plane, salutes, and says "go get em sir!" Now you tell me who's got it wrong!!!!! archer2 In the Navy, the Captain (REAL Captain, you know, of a SHIP) looks at his crew, returns their salute, and say's "LETS get 'em guys"

Fucking A right.  He's right with you on the bridge or CIC.  He takes the hit right along with the Seaman manning his station next him.

Navy officers, at least those at sea, don't sit in some CP in the rear.  They stand with their men and PERSONALLY lead them into battle.

Quoted: Fucking A right.  He's right with you on the bridge or CIC.  He takes the hit right along with the Seaman manning his station next him. Navy officers, at least those at sea, don't sit in some CP in the rear.  They stand with their men and PERSONALLY lead them into battle.

Some reason, I would think that outside of the teams and SBUs, there is not allot of leading into battle any more for the Navy.  They may however tell them to push the button.

Quoted: Quoted: Thus why I dislike SOOO many of the AirForce peopel I have met. It amazes me how you can serve in ANY branch of the military, and come out thinking like a liberal. I have NEVER seen a liberal Marine, and I'm pretty sure I've never met a Navy or Amry liberal... You might check this person's voting record while a member of the US Senate... John Herschel Glenn, Jr. (Colonel, USMC, Ret.)

You also might want to check out:

John Forbes Kerry (Lieutenant, USN)
James Earle Carter (Lieutenant, USN)

In the Navy, the Captain (REAL Captain, you know, of a SHIP) looks at his crew, returns their salute, and say's "LETS get 'em guys"

Is that before or after they say the chant to acknowledge they were the nation's 2nd service to go to sea.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So let me get this straight.  You want a finance troop (or equal) to augment the SF of an AF base?  First of all, no.  Typically these folks will qualify with an M-16 every two years, maybe every one year, depending on their job.  Most will never pick up an M-9.  Then, would you like to give this troop some "special training" to bring them to the standard required for them to be qualified to guard the gate?  In addition to their assigned specialty. Well, yes. Most of the troops the Army deployed to guard the AF bases were not MP's. They were not Infantry. I know of at least one Finance company, one QM company, and one Maintenance company. Yup, clerks and mechanics. Who qualify once a year and 99% of whom had never fired an M-9... just like those AF ones you say are not qualified to do the job. My experience is 10+ years old, but the above info about USAF weapons qualification is in error, and I can assure you that the Army clerks and mechanics were not "just like those AF ones".   Unless you're an SP or PJ or something like that, you get the following: - 4 hours in basic in a classroom being told how not to shoot yourself or the person next to you.  A few days later you go to a range, fire a few rounds to zero then fire 40 rounds to qualify. - Before deploying on an overseas assignment, you will get a 1 day class where you spend the morning being told how to take the M16 apart and put it back together.  You lube the rifle then go to lunch.  After lunch you go to the range, fire a few rounds to zero the rifle then fire 40 to qualify.  After everybody fires you clean the rifle and go home. And that's it.  If your not an SP or anything then the only malfunction clearance drill you're taught is to raise your hand and wait for soembody to come and clear it for you.  The ranges are only 25 yards long and you only fire at static paper targets.  I was in the AirForce for 7 years and I went to the range only twice and fired less than 100 rounds through the M16 and received no training in other weapons.   Some units were designated as mobility units and they got more training, but not much more. As for the politics of people in the Air Force, I was disgusted at the number of liberals I met.  Worst case example was my last NCOIC who did nothing but gush on and on about how wonderful and talented Babs is and told everybody who would listen that Hillary was the best role model for a woman that she'd ever seen.   Most of the junior enlisted people I worked with went into the Air Force because the factory in their home town wasn't hiring and they needed to get a job somewhere and they figured AF would be the easiest.  They spent 18+ years with their factory-working, union-member fathers and grandfathers telling them that "so long as there's a Democrat in office they'll never go hungry."  Most of them were apolitical and  didn't want to take even a few minutes to think about any sort of issues.  For most people the Air Force is a 9-5 job with a dress code that is more strict than other 9-5 jobs.  In other branches you get deployed and come face to face with reality.  Most of the senior NCOs I worked with seemed competent and tended to be conservative, but many of them also put in for reirement as soon as Clinton was elected.  Most of the other NCOs I worked with were the same as the junior enlisted except that they had more time in.   I was in communications and spent 18 months at a NATO assignment working with Soldiers and Sailors who supposedly had the same job description as me, but they had received much better training.  If you're in the field or on a ship then you need everybody to know as much as possible about their equipment and be able to fill as many roles as possible because you can't just call in a specialist when a difficult problem comes up.  Working with Army and Navy personnel made me much better at mine but eventually led to trouble because I was a lot less willing to put up with substandard performance when I went back to a regular AF assignment.

Remember: The officer:enlisted ratio in AF combat arms is exactly opposite of the rest of the services, as the officers (pilots & navigators/mission-commanders) are the majority of those who actually do the fighting, and the VAST majority of AF enlisted are non-combat support troops...

If you look at the Army you will probably find the same level of combat proficiency (maybe a LITTLE better) in Army non-combat-arms units as your average group of AF enlisted folks...

The AF just takes the heat because they have the largest tail-to-tooth ratio of any service...

Think about it: Why spend the money teaching bomb-hangers, accountants & jet mechanics to play infantry? The AF doesn't operate from 'forward' bases, and the nearest your average enlisted Airman is gonna get to combat is playing Desert Combat or X-box...

Quoted: Quoted: Fucking A right.  He's right with you on the bridge or CIC.  He takes the hit right along with the Seaman manning his station next him. Navy officers, at least those at sea, don't sit in some CP in the rear.  They stand with their men and PERSONALLY lead them into battle. Some reason, I would think that outside of the teams and SBUs, there is not allot of leading into battle any more for the Navy.  They may however tell them to push the button.

Untill we have to deal with China....

Quoted: In the Navy, the Captain (REAL Captain, you know, of a SHIP) looks at his crew, returns their salute, and say's "LETS get 'em guys" Is that before or after they say the chant to acknowledge they were the nation's 2nd service to go to sea.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thus why I dislike SOOO many of the AirForce peopel I have met. It amazes me how you can serve in ANY branch of the military, and come out thinking like a liberal. I have NEVER seen a liberal Marine, and I'm pretty sure I've never met a Navy or Amry liberal... You might check this person's voting record while a member of the US Senate... John Herschel Glenn, Jr. (Colonel, USMC, Ret.) You also might want to check out: John Forbes Kerry (Lieutenant, USN) James Earle Carter (Lieutenant, USN)

Also:

Charles B. Rangel (USA)
Robert Kerry (USN)
Jon Corzine (USMC)
Tom Harkin (USN)
Ernest F. Hollings (USA)
Daniel K. Inouye (USA)
James M. Jeffords (USN)
Edward M. Kennedy (USA)
Frank R. Lautenberg (USA)

Quoted: Some reason, I would think that outside of the teams and SBUs, there is not allot of leading into battle any more for the Navy.  They may however tell them to push the button.

Yeah, tell the guys on the Stark that. And the guys on Princeton. And the guys on Cole. Or maybe just me, and I can show you my combat action ribbon. I've been shot at many times, by missles, small arms and antiaircraft guns; I've been stuck in minefields and boarded hostile shipping. I don't think you really know of what you speak. Unless you are just yanking my chain.

All I have to say is this, name which branch of the service can launch an aircraft from the Missouri or Louisiana, fly non-stop,to the target, put steel on target, and fly home all in the same day? The Air Force can. If you can take pride in living in shitty conditions where after awhile you develop boils, your teeth loosen and you also have fleas, be proud there Army guy, if youre a gyreene and like living in your own shit go for it, if youre a swabbbie and like hot bunking thats cool. But Im in the AF where I will at least have a tent and a cot and lukewarm food without bugs in it 3 times a week. If you're happy in whatever branch youre in or were in so be it. We all chose our branch and we all have to live with it. If you think AF guys are snobby, thats fine, it does take a hell of alot of smarts to fix an F22 radar. But never fear we do have retards in our own branch, theyre called services and supply. Theyre our own special children.

As an acitve duty USN aircraft maintainer, Air Force Airmen seem less skilled  on the maintenance side of the house than USN/USMC personel.

When we work on a jet engine, we work the entire bastard and are trained as such. The USAF Airmen that I have worked with are only trained on certain sections ( intake, turbine, bybass, fuel delivery)  The same is true for the electricians and comm/nav guys.

I do work first hand with a LCPL who just picked up CPL and he is the hardest working guy I've ever met. I'll work with my Marine brothers anyday.

BTW, I'll email pictures back from the flight deck. I deploy Sunday.

Shit, Here I go wasting my 300th post..............

My earlier post was intended to be a funny ha ha.....some took it WAY too serious!

All the services have different jobs and ways of looking at things. Each relies on the other at one time or another whether you want to acknowledge it or not. WE ARE A BROTHERHOOD! All service members.....Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and yes even our Coast Guard brethern! We VOLUNTARILY chose which branch to go into for whatever reason. THEY WERE OUR REASONS not someone elses! Get over it, salute smartly, about face and press on.

Just another attempt at humor to relate the differences of a simple term in the different services:

If you ask the Marines to secure a building, they will send in a fire team, post sentries on each corner and provide a room to room search. Once concluded, they will determine the building SECURE.

If you ask the Navy to secure a building, they will go in, turn off all the lights and lock the door on the way out. Now it's SECURE.

If you ask the Air Force to secure a building, they will take out a five year lease with an option to buy it. Now it is SECURE.


Don't get too wrapped up in this .....it aint worth it


JMHO

archer2

One thing I noticed about the selection of guys with the word "Garand" in their screen name.  They do a lot of complaining about other services and conditions on deployments.  YET, they do not deploy anyplace other than the local KFC for another batch of greasy wings and fries.  

Quoted: Quoted: Fucking A right.  He's right with you on the bridge or CIC.  He takes the hit right along with the Seaman manning his station next him. Navy officers, at least those at sea, don't sit in some CP in the rear.  They stand with their men and PERSONALLY lead them into battle. Some reason, I would think that outside of the teams and SBUs, there is not allot of leading into battle any more for the Navy.  They may however tell them to push the button.

For some reason, I think you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Even in peacetime, sailors at sea have some of the most fucking hazardous jobs in the nation.  One of my instructors (a Lieutenant at the time) at Surface Warfare Officers School was awarded the Navy & Marine Corps Medal for rescuing some of his men from a boiler room fire on USS Constellation.  And he had the burns to prove it.

You guys in the Army and Marines are hogging all the news because we have a limited land war now.

As someone else said, when China decides to start making noise in its corner of the world, it will be the Navy doing the fighting and the dying, and not just the airdales.

Quoted: Marines are part of the Navy. We keep the jarheads seperate 'cause we don't want them touching our stuff. USN

Yes the Marines are a department of the Navy that would be the MENS deparment.

U.S.M.C.

Quoted: When we work on a jet engine, we work the entire bastard and are trained as such. The USAF Airmen that I have worked with are only trained on certain sections ( intake, turbine, bybass, fuel delivery)  The same is true for the electricians and comm/nav guys.

Exactly my experience as a 'comm guy'.  

Quoted: xxxx : we have the same jobs...it'm telling you you would rather be here than the marines xxxx : marines and army guys that are here say that all the time xxxx : our way of life is just better.....they deploy and sleep in the sand and we go to the same place and stay in hotels, we sit in offices drinking coffee and they get shot at and die Not knocking any AF guys here, just my friends take on my decision to join the Marines Edit: he is an imagery analyst

Tell that to Hawkin who is in the Air Force and over in Iraq right now protecting convoys.

He's obviously on crack or heroin..

There is no way in hell I would consider lowering myself to the USAF. Note to any USAF types.. Not an insault just personal opinion

They do however have better living arangments in their dorms.

They have better chicks than the WM's. But that can be taken advantage of by all branches

I signed up as infantry so I wasn't expectin a rose garden (old add) if I was and wanted a real easy job I'd have been a flyboy. As I sit here now with one good knee and a 40% disability rating I can honestly say still that the only other thing I would consider if I had to do it all over again would be the Army. And for the only reason I could go Ranger and jumpschool


BTW: When somebody picks the branch with hte lowest physical standards what do you expect? They want things easy.