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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:21:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
because they get here, see how good it is, and decide to live here Wonder if that really happens. IIRC, Mohammed Atta was pretty far along into an engineering degree which would have given him a great life here. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:24:58 AM EDT
[#2]
When the U.S. forces went into Afghanistan they found the leaders even had air conditioning for their horses. It surprises me that Bin Laden wasn't killed by his own people for what he did. Guess that shows how popular he is among the lower class/uneducated. The higher ups were enjoying a very good lifestyle from the heroin trade. All they're trying to do is get things back to kind of how they were pre 9/11.
Quoted: And, one or two small attacks would galvanize America, result in more war and more sanctions, which isn't the effect they are looking for. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:27:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
remember the malvo sniper guy??? he had every agency there was looking for him,national guard, everyone.. people were scared shitless, and he shot 10 people i think....only reason he was caught was he decided to start writing letters, and gave a little too much info to the police......... imagine 20 sniper teams like him running loose around the us at once.......... single shot h&r rifle $150.00 bucks........ and a used car...... not much to organize.. it would be a nightmare... Shit, during my military science class - we listened to a LtCol of Marines plan a terrorist attack that involved two cars, two bombs, two rifles, three people, and a few hundred casualties. It wouldn't be hard and I'm surprised that it hasn't happened yet. The only way to prevent it is to make the people that are most likely to do this value their lives. Well, there is no way to ensure 100% prevention, but what you wrote is part of it, and the US has an inherent advantage because you can come from anywhere and assimilate to our culture, and our relative lack of welfare does not make it easy to resist assimilation. Freedom and free markets FTW! Aside from that, we also seem to have good intelligence/security. And we can back that up further with efficient police SWAT teams and distributed armed civilians, making active shooter incidents much higher risk here then in, say, India. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:28:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Because the mexican border would actually be guarded after that. Why do it now when you can wait until we pull out of Iraq and then hit us with several hundred small cells at once to prove to us that our war did nothing? If you think they can't get automatic weapons and bombs here in under a week you are a fool. Where do you think the drugs from the ME go through to get here? The network is already in place. There are countless tunnels under the border. Why do it now when we have a president that bows to Saudi kings, hangs out with despots, and wants to talk to the taliban? Everyone that knows anything knows our national security is a joke and we have only caught the dumb ones that got mouthy or stupid. I hate to think it, but I believe it will happen AFTER Obama leaves office. He's doing them too much good right now weakening our defence to attack us now.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:30:41 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Really, how hard would it be? I'm sure there is not shortage of Muslims willing to get their "heavenly reward", and getting the men and materials into the country is really no problem. 150 people in Iraq got killed in an IED attack, and no one in America bats an eye. If our enemies really wanted to strike at the US, why wouldn't they do resort to this? With America defeated, they could do what they wanted in Iraq/Afghanistan or where else at their leisure. I finished reading Black Hawk Down this morning and at the end of the book, it mentioned that for years after the battle, leaders of Aidid's clan still thought the world's attention was focused on them, as though we were still captivated by their war. Of course, we know that most people forgot about it within weeks. Are our enemies that delusional as well? Do they really thinking killing 150 Muslims in Iraq hurts the American opinion of the war? 'Petty' suicide bombings generally happen IN MUSLIM REGIONS where the 'recruit base' is in the same places the attacks happen... When they come over here, it takes enough planning, coordination, and effort that it's a complete waste if they don't hit a major symbolic target... Also, the aim of AQ attacking the west isn't to 'cause chaos', but rather to make a political statement - a political statement (you should withdraw from the middle east, only isolationisim will protect you from us) that can only be made if *most* of the western target population can't see the attack happening to them.... Finally, the sort of recruit that they use to blow up a shopping mall in Israel isn't the dedicated, trained idealogue that they send against the west, and they might have to send hundreds of them over here, just to get a few dozen explosions (the bombers do reconsider sometimes, to the point where in Iraq they were putting remotes on suicide bombers, so that the 'handler' could detonate if the bomber got cold feet)... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:32:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: I guess the main question would be......what would they use? IEDs elsewhere in the world are using old explosive shells and other surplus /new military explosive products cobbled together to make bombs. Here in the US, with the explosives industry so heavily regulated, it would be very hard if not impossible for the small-or large-scale use of explosive products to make IEDs. Home made chemicals probably wouldn't work too well for this mission. And as far as smuggling them in, this too would be very hard (at least for sustained IED operations) in light of the relatively heavy border/port/customs enforcement. People manage to smuggle cocaine and people across our borders. Al Queda relies on infiltration through legal points of entry..... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:32:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Suicide bombing here in the U.S. would be a waste since support for the wars is damn near non-existent. If they did anything, a surge of support for the war and morale would be high temporarily. If they were to do anything, it would have to be coordinated like numerous bombs at once, or something big like 9/11. They know what they are doing right now since we're losing the wars in the media's minds. The military knows otherwise.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:34:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Give it a few years, Birth rates will go up for them as are's dwindle. We will be over run.  I've never been a grammar Nazi but damn! 
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:35:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Really, how hard would it be? I'm sure there is not shortage of Muslims willing to get their "heavenly reward", and getting the men and materials into the country is really no problem. 150 people in Iraq got killed in an IED attack, and no one in America bats an eye. If our enemies really wanted to strike at the US, why wouldn't they do resort to this? With America defeated, they could do what they wanted in Iraq/Afghanistan or where else at their leisure. I finished reading Black Hawk Down this morning and at the end of the book, it mentioned that for years after the battle, leaders of Aidid's clan still thought the world's attention was focused on them, as though we were still captivated by their war. Of course, we know that most people forgot about it within weeks. Are our enemies that delusional as well? Do they really thinking killing 150 Muslims in Iraq hurts the American opinion of the war? 'Petty' suicide bombings generally happen IN MUSLIM REGIONS where the 'recruit base' is in the same places the attacks happen... When they come over here, it takes enough planning, coordination, and effort that it's a complete waste if they don't hit a major symbolic target... Also, the aim of AQ attacking the west isn't to 'cause chaos', but rather to make a political statement - a political statement (you should withdraw from the middle east, only isolationisim will protect you from us) that can only be made if *most* of the western target population can't see the attack happening to them.... Finally, the sort of recruit that they use to blow up a shopping mall in Israel isn't the dedicated, trained idealogue that they send against the west, and they might have to send hundreds of them over here, just to get a few dozen explosions (the bombers do reconsider sometimes, to the point where in Iraq they were putting remotes on suicide bombers, so that the 'handler' could detonate if the bomber got cold feet)... Well damn, I agree with you on something.  |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:35:37 AM EDT
[#10]
I was thinking of a more liberal area with plenty of gun control to prevent people from defending themselves, ie. NYC or maybe Hollyweird. A couple of guys indiscriminately mowing people down and blowing shit up during rush hour while DURKA DURKA'ing would certainly make a big impression, particularly since the majority of Americans expect the police and .gov to prevent such things from happening or at least swoop in to save them if it does. Look at the fear elicited by maniacs in the past - The D.C. sniper, Columbine, VT, the North Hollywood shootout - it's some scary shit to think what a few cases of sudden Jihad syndrome could accomplish.
Quoted: Quoted: This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. perhaps they'd be out gunned if they were in TX. minus the explosives part. unless if you cuold shoot their explosives as a reactive target.  |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:36:56 AM EDT
[#11]
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A few beers and some wild sex with some females over here and maybe they will start thinkin our country ain't so bad  Mohammed Atta was a regular at a strip club near the flight school he attended before 11SEPT2001. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:36:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I think they realize that once stateside civilians start being targeted, even the soccer moms will have no problem opening a can of whoop ass in the middle east. If we are no longer safe in America, all hell will break loose in the sandbox. The generals will finally be allowed to truly destroy that region and congress will go along with it because that is what America will demand. Pretty much... Although the leadership won't admit it to the rank-and-file, 9/11 was 'too much', and they see how rather than inspiring isolationism, it inspired us to come over there & knock some heads.... They do not need more fronts opened in this war... The method behind AQ's madness, is the same 'idea' that inspired the Japs to bomb Pearl... Hit them hard enough, and they will crawl back home & hide behind their borders, leaving us free to do as we wish... AQ's leadership knows that attacking 'soft' targets will get them a major ass-kicking - there won't *be* a peace movement over here to speak of, if they start bombing schools & malls - there will be a bunch of pissed off Americans who don't care HOW we win the war, just so long as we WIN and they DIE... See the difference in how we viewed the Japs vs Germans in WWII... AQ does NOT want to be on the receiving end of that.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:37:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. I still think what happened in Mumbai will happen here. I don't care how squared away a police force is; an attack like that would result in the same numbers here: 200+/- killed, 300+/- injured. An attack like that only 'works' if you have a significant hostile Muslim population, and a hostile Muslim nation on a land-border.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:38:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Al Queda relies on infiltration through legal points of entry..... If they had a good plan that required use of illegal immigration, I suspect they would use it. I doubt they rule anything out. My understanding is that Hezbollah smuggled in illegally here, however they have acted more like organized crime than like terrorists. That too, could change. Although I expect them to continue to enjoy the profits from their activities so much that they continue them . . . |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:41:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: If I remember correctly, didn't those moslem bastards from 9/11 do the strip club thing before hand? Trained strike teams don't grow on trees... Those guys were the AQ version of special-ops... IIRC, they were here for YEARS... Wasting that sort of a team on soft-target small-scale attacks isn't the way it goes.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:42:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Would you agree that it is because the non rank and file members are not really religious fanatics as much as they claim as opposed to them being drug merchants of one of the largest drug producing regions of the world?Quoted: I think they realize that once stateside civilians start being targeted, even the soccer moms will have no problem opening a can of whoop ass in the middle east. If we are no longer safe in America, all hell will break loose in the sandbox. The generals will finally be allowed to truly destroy that region and congress will go along with it because that is what America will demand. Pretty much... Although the leadership won't admit it to the rank-and-file, 9/11 was 'too much', and they see how rather than inspiring isolationism, it inspired us to come over there & knock some heads.... They do not need more fronts opened in this war... The method behind AQ's madness, is the same 'idea' that inspired the Japs to bomb Pearl... Hit them hard enough, and they will crawl back home & hide behind their borders, leaving us free to do as we wish... AQ's leadership knows that attacking 'soft' targets will get them a major ass-kicking - there won't *be* a peace movement over here to speak of, if they start bombing schools & malls - there will be a bunch of pissed off Americans who don't care HOW we win the war, just so long as we WIN and they DIE... See the difference in how we viewed the Japs vs Germans in WWII... AQ does NOT want to be on the receiving end of that.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:43:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I guess the main question would be......what would they use? IEDs elsewhere in the world are using old explosive shells and other surplus /new military explosive products cobbled together to make bombs. Here in the US, with the explosives industry so heavily regulated, it would be very hard if not impossible for the small-or large-scale use of explosive products to make IEDs. Home made chemicals probably wouldn't work too well for this mission. And as far as smuggling them in, this too would be very hard (at least for sustained IED operations) in light of the relatively heavy border/port/customs enforcement. Home made explosives work very well. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:44:47 AM EDT
[#18]
A few years ago there was a student at a University (I want to say Oklahoma) that blew himself outside a stadium while a football game was going on. His intentions were to blow himself up while in the stands but he screwed up. The story was buried quickly.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:45:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. I still think what happened in Mumbai will happen here. I don't care how squared away a police force is; an attack like that would result in the same numbers here: 200+/- killed, 300+/- injured. An attack like that only 'works' if you have a significant hostile Muslim population, and a hostile Muslim nation on a land-border.... I don't see why you think that. It makes it easier to pull off, sure, but an attack like that "works" if the body count is high. That can be achieved even without " a significant hostile Muslim population, and a hostile Muslim nation on a land-border....". Now, Al Quada may not see it as worthwhile to conduct in the US, but others do (and already have planned and even carried out such attacks). It doesn't take huge resources or a large number of people to pull it off. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:47:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Most of the footsoldiers are or were 'believers'....Quoted: Would you agree that it is because the non rank and file members are not really religious fanatics as much as they claim as opposed to them being drug merchants of one of the largest drug producing regions of the world?Quoted: I think they realize that once stateside civilians start being targeted, even the soccer moms will have no problem opening a can of whoop ass in the middle east. If we are no longer safe in America, all hell will break loose in the sandbox. The generals will finally be allowed to truly destroy that region and congress will go along with it because that is what America will demand. Pretty much... Although the leadership won't admit it to the rank-and-file, 9/11 was 'too much', and they see how rather than inspiring isolationism, it inspired us to come over there & knock some heads.... They do not need more fronts opened in this war... The method behind AQ's madness, is the same 'idea' that inspired the Japs to bomb Pearl... Hit them hard enough, and they will crawl back home & hide behind their borders, leaving us free to do as we wish... AQ's leadership knows that attacking 'soft' targets will get them a major ass-kicking - there won't *be* a peace movement over here to speak of, if they start bombing schools & malls - there will be a bunch of pissed off Americans who don't care HOW we win the war, just so long as we WIN and they DIE... See the difference in how we viewed the Japs vs Germans in WWII... AQ does NOT want to be on the receiving end of that.... The leadership? Not devout/fanatical in reality, just power-hungry... Islam is a tool they can use to enhance their own personal power (the end goal of OBL, is to get the 'Saudi' out of Saudi Arabia, and install himself on the throne).... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:48:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. I still think what happened in Mumbai will happen here. I don't care how squared away a police force is; an attack like that would result in the same numbers here: 200+/- killed, 300+/- injured. I disagree. From a tactical perspective, Indian cops were very poorly armed, and had minimal training for this sort of thing. Over here, Every little PD has a SWAT team, patrol rifles, active shooter training, etc. Plus, 37 states have shall issue CCW. Strategically, Several teams of people require lots of communication, coordination, etc. Somebodies gonna talk, and it's probably gonna get stopped before it starts. We probably came within a few days of stopping 9/11, and a major attack Mumbai style would take many more people, with many more chances of a leak. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:48:28 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Really, how hard would it be? I'm sure there is not shortage of Muslims willing to get their "heavenly reward", and getting the men and materials into the country is really no problem. 150 people in Iraq got killed in an IED attack, and no one in America bats an eye. If our enemies really wanted to strike at the US, why wouldn't they do resort to this? With America defeated, they could do what they wanted in Iraq/Afghanistan or where else at their leisure.
I finished reading Black Hawk Down this morning and at the end of the book, it mentioned that for years after the battle, leaders of Aidid's clan still thought the world's attention was focused on them, as though we were still captivated by their war. Of course, we know that most people forgot about it within weeks. Are our enemies that delusional as well? Do they really thinking killing 150 Muslims in Iraq hurts the American opinion of the war? There was a muslim college student who blew himself up in a parking lot. He was going to suicide bomb his university's football game, but couldn't get into the game and detonated in the parking lot instead. The feds have nabbed a number of would-be bombers before they could pull off their plans. And I'd consider flying airliners into buildings to be both suicidal and a bombing. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:48:50 AM EDT
[#23]
So you have a legit US citizen buy 4 WASRs and 40 mags. You get 4 guys with 10 mags each and turn them loose in a shopping mall. How many people would die before the attack is stopped? All they would need is one legit citizen to buy the stuff, and then 4 trigger pullers that don't even have to be trained or even speak english. Total outlay of under $5000 tops. They are not doing it because the resulting backlash would probably get them personally killed. They don't care how many muslims die for them, as long as they can live on and stay in power while the heroin money pours in.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:49:30 AM EDT
[#24]
this morning is Dallas Tx the man that tried to blow this building up in downtown dallas is going to court.
they are here they simply suck at what they do,. 
this is the man.. 
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:51:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Blowing up a guy near a FOB in Iraq doesn't get an A10 sending you a hot steel rain. Planning an attack that kills american civilians does.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:51:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Wait around. They've busted a few idiots on bombing shooting plots. But they unsuccesfully bombed the trade center and got that right later. No, it'll be one of our own 'disenfranchised' groups down the road linked to an international group. Drug cartel + reconquista + Al Quida, Gangs + black panther/islam + Al quida. Plenty of impoverised people anxious to strike at the man.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:52:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
A few years ago there was a student at a University (I want to say Oklahoma) that blew himself outside a stadium while a football game was going on. His intentions were to blow himself up while in the stands but he screwed up. The story was buried quickly. Yep he blew himself up outside of the 2005 OU Kansas State game. He had apparently tried to get a hold of ammonium nitrate, but couldn't, and made TATP in his apartment instead. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:53:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. I still think what happened in Mumbai will happen here. I don't care how squared away a police force is; an attack like that would result in the same numbers here: 200+/- killed, 300+/- injured. An attack like that only 'works' if you have a significant hostile Muslim population, and a hostile Muslim nation on a land-border.... I don't see why you think that. It makes it easier to pull off, sure, but an attack like that "works" if the body count is high. That can be achieved even without " a significant hostile Muslim population, and a hostile Muslim nation on a land-border....". Now, Al Quada may not see it as worthwhile to conduct in the US, but others do (and already have planned and even carried out such attacks). It doesn't take huge resources or a large number of people to pull it off. It takes huge resources to train for, prepare, and dispatch your team from 'over there' to 'over here' without getting caught... And it *is* more manpower-intensive than a bombing attack.... It happens 'over there' because the localized conflict provides a way to do it without the huge logistical issues that ocur trying to do it here... You need a sympathetic population to help you (eg, exploiting the Muslim-Hindu conflict in India - a conflict that doesn't have an equivalent counterpart here), you need to be able to move people & weapons, and you need a minimum amount of distance between handlers (ISI) and the strike team.... You will notice that these sorts of attacks ONLY happen in areas where the conditions I posted exist.... AQ attacks the west exclusively with bombs aimed at political, military, economic, and transportation targets..... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:53:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: this morning is Dallas Tx the man that tried to blow this building up in downtown dallas is going to court. they are here they simply suck at what they do,. http://www.adevarul.ro/editor_files/dallas%20bomb%20plot.jpg this is the man.. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/09-09/0925smadimug.jpg Like I said, the ones caught are either wannabes or "true believers". The ones that actually kill people are planned out by intelligent people that know you don't have to be fancy. Last time it was just some guys with boxcutters, a fake bomb, and enough training to fly a plane into a building. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:53:41 AM EDT
[#30]
I wouldn't count it out ...
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:56:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I disagree. From a tactical perspective, Indian cops were very poorly armed, and had minimal training for this sort of thing. Over here, Every little PD has a SWAT team, patrol rifles, active shooter training, etc. Plus, 37 states have shall issue CCW. Strategically, Several teams of people require lots of communication, coordination, etc. Somebodies gonna talk, and it's probably gonna get stopped before it starts. We probably came within a few days of stopping 9/11, and a major attack Mumbai style would take many more people, with many more chances of a leak. The DC sniper was a two man team. Columbine was a two "man" team as well. Mumbai was done by men that operated in pairs, almost independently once the operation began. A half dozen guys could do a hell of a lot of damage. It isn't exactly rocket science to pull such a thing off. Granted, our police are much more capable, and our population armed. Active shooter events face much more risk here. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:56:25 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: this morning is Dallas Tx the man that tried to blow this building up in downtown dallas is going to court. they are here they simply suck at what they do,. http://www.adevarul.ro/editor_files/dallas%20bomb%20plot.jpg this is the man.. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/09-09/0925smadimug.jpg And most of those guys, are wanna-bes.... Which is why they suck so bad, and why they get caught... 'Ameteur Hour' terrorisim = FBI nails your ass to the wall, selling you plastic-explosives made of play-doh, and video-taping you trying to plant them.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:56:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Al Quida IS a drug cartel. Wait around. They've busted a few idiots on bombing shooting plots. But they unsuccesfully bombed the trade center and got that right later. No, it'll be one of our own 'disenfranchised' groups down the road linked to an international group. Drug cartel + reconquista + Al Quida, Gangs + black panther/islam + Al quida. Plenty of impoverised people anxious to strike at the man. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:57:23 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
A few years ago there was a student at a University (I want to say Oklahoma) that blew himself outside a stadium while a football game was going on. His intentions were to blow himself up while in the stands but he screwed up. The story was buried quickly. I remember that one. I wonder if the media even used the "M" word? There was a sudden jihad syndrome incident in SC, I think? Muslim with a SUV plowed through a bunch of people. I'm sure they'e working on something bigger than 9/11, combined with their new allies in the WH doing their part to destroy the USA from within. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:58:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I guess the main question would be......what would they use? IEDs elsewhere in the world are using old explosive shells and other surplus /new military explosive products cobbled together to make bombs. Here in the US, with the explosives industry so heavily regulated, it would be very hard if not impossible for the small-or large-scale use of explosive products to make IEDs. Home made chemicals probably wouldn't work too well for this mission. And as far as smuggling them in, this too would be very hard (at least for sustained IED operations) in light of the relatively heavy border/port/customs enforcement. How hard is it to walk over the Mexican border with a backpack full of hand grenades and C-4? Shit, they could just buy the grenades and explosives in Mexico, no need to get it through customs at all. You CAN buy commercial explosives, it just involves a huge paper trail that leads back to you. I'm guessing if you're going to blow yourself up in the process, you're not going to care about that though. Home-made explosives are EASY to make. You can even get the same performance as military explosives if you make the right formulas and keep your batches consistent. Only issue is that most of them are unstable as fuck (meaning you stand a good chance of blowing yourself up making a batch) and it's difficult to make it in bulk quantities without someone catching on. They COULD do an IED campaign, but not a sustained one, and the bombs wouldn't be nearly as big or effective as the IED's they make over in the sandbox where they wire together a couple artillery rounds, mortar shells, and C4 with some detcord. But they COULD wreck a lot of havoc and kill a lot of people, especially if they combined the bombs with chemical weapons. Chlorine gas, ricin, sarin, phosgene, all fairly easy to make. And I KNOW the dirka-dirkas know how to make them, because an FBI buddy of mine gave me a translated manual instructing them on how to do just that (complete with praises to allah every other sentence.). Set off a few small bombs at the exits to a shopping mall to panic people (and prevent escape), then set off chemical bombs to gas people while you run around in a gas mask shooting people and screaming praises to allah. Voila, instant massacre, hundreds dead, huge media circus, and your terrorist organization gets big publicity points again. Or they could easily do a Beslan and do all that shit there, except with children as hostages. Even bigger media circus. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:59:34 AM EDT
[#36]
THey have caught quite a few would be's that we know about i would guess there is prob more that we havent heard about. Usally at least for the u.s they want big spectaclar events with high casualtys stuff like car bombs isnt worth their time.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:59:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Blowing up a guy near a FOB in Iraq doesn't get an A10 sending you a hot steel rain. Planning an attack that kills american civilians does. More accurately... Blowing up a FOB in Iraq gets a MQ-9 looking to force-feed you a Hellfire... Blowing up a US School gets an M1A2 platoon on your sponsor's palace lawn.... They can hide from the Air Force forever (well, some of them can... others go 'boom' on a pretty regular basis)... But that video of Saddam being hauled out of that hole, and the one that followed with him swinging from a rope... THAT is still present on some people's minds... They do NOT want to see any more 'regime change' in the countries they wish to eventually rule... And attacking soft targets = public support for multiple invasions... Again.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:00:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Because we have terrorist bug lights in the Middle East and Asia.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:01:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: I guess the main question would be......what would they use? IEDs elsewhere in the world are using old explosive shells and other surplus /new military explosive products cobbled together to make bombs. Here in the US, with the explosives industry so heavily regulated, it would be very hard if not impossible for the small-or large-scale use of explosive products to make IEDs. Home made chemicals probably wouldn't work too well for this mission. And as far as smuggling them in, this too would be very hard (at least for sustained IED operations) in light of the relatively heavy border/port/customs enforcement. How hard is it to walk over the Mexican border with a backpack full of hand grenades and C-4? Shit, they could just buy the grenades and explosives in Mexico, no need to get it through customs at all. You CAN buy commercial explosives, it just involves a huge paper trail that leads back to you. I'm guessing if you're going to blow yourself up in the process, you're not going to care about that though. Home-made explosives are EASY to make. You can even get the same performance as military explosives if you make the right formulas and keep your batches consistent. Only issue is that most of them are unstable as fuck (meaning you stand a good chance of blowing yourself up making a batch) and it's difficult to make it in bulk quantities without someone catching on. They COULD do an IED campaign, but not a sustained one, and the bombs wouldn't be nearly as big or effective as the IED's they make over in the sandbox where they wire together a couple artillery rounds, mortar shells, and C4 with some detcord. But they COULD wreck a lot of havoc and kill a lot of people, especially if they combined the bombs with chemical weapons. Chlorine gas, ricin, sarin, phosgene, all fairly easy to make. And I KNOW the dirka-dirkas know how to make them, because an FBI buddy of mine gave me a translated manual instructing them on how to do just that (complete with praises to allah every other sentence.). Set off a few small bombs at the exits to a shopping mall to panic people (and prevent escape), then set off chemical bombs to gas people while you run around in a gas mask shooting people and screaming praises to allah. Voila, instant massacre, hundreds dead, huge media circus, and your terrorist organization gets big publicity points again. Or they could easily do a Beslan and do all that shit there, except with children as hostages. Even bigger media circus. Except as myself and (can't believe we agree at least 90% in this thread) Dave have stated, pulling that crap would get the FULL force of the US armed forces coming down on you. None of this pussyfooting around like we are doing now, real shock and awe. Nobody wants the US coming after them with everything. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:02:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Maybe the typical US Muslim isn't as eager to kill innocent Americans as you thought? I don't have much faith that .gov could detect or stop a well thought out plan. Nobody's concerned with the "typical" muslim going jihad any more than they're worried about the typical white dude going OKC . But when damn near 100% of global terror is committed by people who claim to do it in the name of one religion in particular, that one religion is going to get the attention it deserves....and for good reason. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:02:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. I avoid shopping malls in general, but I absolutely steer clear of them during the Holidays. It wouldn't even have to happen in a big city. Small to medium size city, mall food court at noon on the Friday after Thanksgiving, couple of guys with AKs and some pipe bombs.... I shudder to think of it and wonder why it hasn't happened yet. Actually, it would probably be better (from the terrorists perspective) to do this in a small to medium size city. Right now, a lot of people think "Well, I don't live in NYC, so it's not going to happen to me". This would make everyone everywhere scared shitless. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:05:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
It takes huge resources to train for, prepare, and dispatch your team from 'over there' to 'over here' without getting caught... And it *is* more manpower-intensive than a bombing attack.... It happens 'over there' because the localized conflict provides a way to do it without the huge logistical issues that ocur trying to do it here... You need a sympathetic population to help you (eg, exploiting the Muslim-Hindu conflict in India - a conflict that doesn't have an equivalent counterpart here), you need to be able to move people & weapons, and you need a minimum amount of distance between handlers (ISI) and the strike team.... You will notice that these sorts of attacks ONLY happen in areas where the conditions I posted exist.... AQ attacks the west exclusively with bombs aimed at political, military, economic, and transportation targets..... I don't agree. We have had idiot high school kids carry out such attacks. We have had lone loons carry out such attacks. It ain't rocket science. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:06:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
because they get here, see how good it is, and decide to live here Two words. Strip clubs. ;) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:06:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I disagree. From a tactical perspective, Indian cops were very poorly armed, and had minimal training for this sort of thing. Over here, Every little PD has a SWAT team, patrol rifles, active shooter training, etc. Plus, 37 states have shall issue CCW. Strategically, Several teams of people require lots of communication, coordination, etc. Somebodies gonna talk, and it's probably gonna get stopped before it starts. We probably came within a few days of stopping 9/11, and a major attack Mumbai style would take many more people, with many more chances of a leak. The DC sniper was a two man team. Columbine was a two "man" team as well. Mumbai was done by men that operated in pairs, almost independently once the operation began. A half dozen guys could do a hell of a lot of damage. It isn't exactly rocket science to pull such a thing off. Granted, our police are much more capable, and our population armed. Active shooter events face much more risk here. IMHO the Mumbai type attack could be the blueprint for attacks to come... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:08:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Dave, please. Just END your sentences. There's no need to leave it "hanging"...
You must be trying to be dramatic... It makes my head hurt to read your posts... I want to read what you have to say, but I'm just skipping over your posts now... Just a pet peeve. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:08:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess the main question would be......what would they use? IEDs elsewhere in the world are using old explosive shells and other surplus /new military explosive products cobbled together to make bombs. Here in the US, with the explosives industry so heavily regulated, it would be very hard if not impossible for the small-or large-scale use of explosive products to make IEDs. Home made chemicals probably wouldn't work too well for this mission. And as far as smuggling them in, this too would be very hard (at least for sustained IED operations) in light of the relatively heavy border/port/customs enforcement. How hard is it to walk over the Mexican border with a backpack full of hand grenades and C-4? Shit, they could just buy the grenades and explosives in Mexico, no need to get it through customs at all. You CAN buy commercial explosives, it just involves a huge paper trail that leads back to you. I'm guessing if you're going to blow yourself up in the process, you're not going to care about that though. Home-made explosives are EASY to make. You can even get the same performance as military explosives if you make the right formulas and keep your batches consistent. Only issue is that most of them are unstable as fuck (meaning you stand a good chance of blowing yourself up making a batch) and it's difficult to make it in bulk quantities without someone catching on. They COULD do an IED campaign, but not a sustained one, and the bombs wouldn't be nearly as big or effective as the IED's they make over in the sandbox where they wire together a couple artillery rounds, mortar shells, and C4 with some detcord. But they COULD wreck a lot of havoc and kill a lot of people, especially if they combined the bombs with chemical weapons. Chlorine gas, ricin, sarin, phosgene, all fairly easy to make. And I KNOW the dirka-dirkas know how to make them, because an FBI buddy of mine gave me a translated manual instructing them on how to do just that (complete with praises to allah every other sentence.). Set off a few small bombs at the exits to a shopping mall to panic people (and prevent escape), then set off chemical bombs to gas people while you run around in a gas mask shooting people and screaming praises to allah. Voila, instant massacre, hundreds dead, huge media circus, and your terrorist organization gets big publicity points again. Or they could easily do a Beslan and do all that shit there, except with children as hostages. Even bigger media circus. Except as myself and (can't believe we agree at least 90% in this thread) Dave have stated, pulling that crap would get the FULL force of the US armed forces coming down on you. None of this pussyfooting around like we are doing now, real shock and awe. Nobody wants the US coming after them with everything. Yep... 'Start in Lebanon, Iraq & Afganistan, meet for pizza & beer on the Syrian/Iranian border', and goddamn don't let the Marines get there first.... Is NOT a plan those folks want to see support for.... Their suicide campaign in Iraq was made possible by the fact that we were ONLY in Iraq and A-stan, and support could be funneled in from Syria and Iran... It would be MUCH harder for them to resist an all out 'house-cleaning' of terror-sponsoring leadership.... Piss us off to the point where we treat them like the Axis in WWII? Nah, they're not that stupid.... |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:10:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This has always bothered me as well. Even a few guys with AK's and explosives in the middle of a large metropolitan area could wreak havoc. The public would be absolutely terrified. I still think what happened in Mumbai will happen here. I don't care how squared away a police force is; an attack like that would result in the same numbers here: 200+/- killed, 300+/- injured. Possible, but also quite possible police or even civilians would end it (or part of it, taking out some teams) very quickly. The odds are against that. Let's say they are 1000 people at a busy mall on the weekend. And let's assume 1% are carrying a gun (either CCW or off duty police.) So that is 10 good guys in the mall with guns. The size of an average mall near me is 1mm sq ft of leasing area (more if you factor in the walkways and open areas.) So pretend the guns are evenly spread out, that is 1 good guy per 100,000 feet of retail space, OR 1 good guy for every two football fields. Even with 10 good guys in the mall with guns, half of them are going to exfil alone or with their loved ones. I'd guess that 1 or 2 would never even know about the attack until after they left. So that leaves 3 good guys that might stand up to the attacking force. 3 guys with handguns and little training vs 3+ guys with rifles, armor, and some semblence of a gameplan between them. Maybe they'd be able to take one bad guy down, maybe. Police response time to the mall would probably be in the 5 minute range, with a tactical response time much longer. Police, if they knew what was going on, would make entrance immediatly so lets figure another 5-10 minutes before they get to the bad guys. So the question is, how many innocents could be slain in 10-15 minutes. |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:10:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
And most of those guys, are wanna-bes.... Which is why they suck so bad, and why they get caught... 'Ameteur Hour' terrorisim = FBI nails your ass to the wall, selling you plastic-explosives made of play-doh, and video-taping you trying to plant them.... Cho was a clown who couldn't "score" with a hired escort, how many people did he kill with just a pistol and no help or logistics trail whatsoever? |
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:11:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Takes much bigger balls to do it here. Balls they don't have.
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:13:19 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
[Except as myself and (can't believe we agree at least 90% in this thread) Dave have stated, pulling that crap would get the FULL force of the US armed forces coming down on you. None of this pussyfooting around like we are doing now, real shock and awe. Nobody wants the US coming after them with everything. Two words: President Obama. |
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