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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why are shotguns/carbines better for home defense? (Page 2 of 7)

Posted: 10/8/2005 1:03:46 AM EDT

[#1]

As a condo-dweller, AR15. Besides, why settle for less

.

Posted: 10/8/2005 4:48:38 AM EDT

[#2]

OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

Posted: 10/8/2005 4:57:39 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Here's my ideal home defense weapon:

+1 Shotguns, carbines, and rifles at too long. Handgun is the best non-NFA weapon. But best overall is SBR.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:01:11 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Check out Ol' Painless' "Box o' Truth" on drywall. pistols go straight through the house and rifle rounds(depending on the size) tumble way too fucking much for security in firing. A shotgun will go into a person and not through the entire neighborhood.

Actually IIRC the Box O Truth results contradicted the FBI materials test and rounds like the 5.56 demonstrated greater penetration of drywall than the 9mm.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:03:37 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I think the focus here is centered more on the death bringing capabilities of a chosen weapon and less the practical application of using said weapon. Obviously a longgun is a better choice for killing people, but is it a better choice when mobility is an issue and you may need a free hand for opening doors and carrying children?

There's a lot of decisions that go into picking the correct weapon for home defense.

Well as far as terminal ballistics (lethality) I use either Hydra Shocks or Golden Sabers and pretty much any JHP defensive round is gonna be pretty lethal. As for portability my dedicated nightstand gun is a MP5K PDW so it is pretty portable.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:07:30 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

I dunno. Might ask SWAT teams that do entries with with long guns all the time.

If you think that an M-4 type AR is too long for manuvering indoors, then, I really
don't know what to say other than I think you are wrong.

I have no diffficulty at all moving with my Bushy, and, with the M3 light on it, it's just dandy
for HD. Much rather have it than my pistola, or my shotgun.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:08:37 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

That's easy.

You get some professional training.

Try Thunder Ranch. You will learn lots of stuff that you never knew.

And, as Clint Smith wisely says, "The purpose of a pistol is to fight your way to the rifle you should have never laid down."

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:09:57 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

use a different strategy:

rather than going after / hunting throughout your house for the BG, ~~lay in ambush (no manuevering hallways, etc.)~~ call the police.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:11:41 AM EDT

[#9]

Also, to answer the questions raised about the Box O'Truth, I believe that results I have noted could best be summed up as follows:

Any round that will effectively STOP a bad guy, will also penetrate several walls.

Therefore, be careful to hit your target and not miss.

The easiest way for me to always hit my target is to use a magazine fed AR15 carbine. I can hit what I aim at.

That's the facts.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:12:50 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

With practice.

After hurricane Andrew we pulled neighborhood security in Homestead. Most guys were rolling AR-15s and shotguns and I was carrying a HK G3 rifle. About as big of a boat of a rifle as a FAL. And on occassion we did have to go inside and take people out of homes that we KNEW didn't belong in them.

If I had it to do over I'd have chosen something smaller like a AR15 or maybe a MP5 but I was younger back then with less experience and envisioned taking on looters who would be hiding behind cars and shooting at us (this was less than 6 months after the Rodney King LA riots and that was the scenario I imagined).

That said nobody had any appreciable difficulty inside with long arms in terms of manuevring. I'm just glad nobody had to fire 5.56 or .308 inside the house. I'd later learn those rounds can be kinda loud.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:25:41 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
don't handguns have all the stopping power you would need?

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:28:45 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
For indoors high capacity pistol caliber carbine.

Higher magazine capacity and longer sight radius than a handgun.

Lower discharge, recoil and less flash and smoke than a rifle or shotgun fired indoors.

Negligible recoil and muzzle blast allows rapid target acquisition and follow up shots as well as the ability to engage multiple targets in rapid succession.

All the reasons most guys like to run into buildings full of bad guys with something like the HK MP5.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:37:04 AM EDT

[#13]

"Handgun victims are usually incapacitated, shotgun victims are usually DOA"

I use an SKS for my home defense gun. If I run out of ammo I have a really nasty club

!

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:05:23 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
For indoors high capacity pistol caliber carbine.

Higher magazine capacity and longer sight radius than a handgun.

Lower discharge, recoil and less flash and smoke than a rifle or shotgun fired indoors.

Negligible recoil and muzzle blast allows rapid target acquisition and follow up shots as well as the ability to engage multiple targets in rapid succession.

All the reasons most guys like to run into buildings full of bad guys with something like the HK MP5.

I have come to this conclusion myself I have recently purchased an HK 94 that will be replacing the 870 next to the bed once I get the Surfire forearm for it. I just finished mounting the Aimpoint and zeroing to the Irons. I feel this will be the best. Concusion and muzzle blast in an enclosed area just seems to be a major issue to me. With the Peltor tacs and the 94 I feel Im in good shape to defend my home and with precision shots if need be.

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:19:19 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

I have come to this conclusion myself I have recently purchased an HK 94 that will be replacing the 870 next to the bed once I get the Surfire forearm for it. I just finished mounting the Aimpoint and zeroing to the Irons. I feel this will be the best. Concusion and muzzle blast in an enclosed area just seems to be a major issue to me. With the Peltor tacs and the 94 I feel Im in good shape to defend my home and with precision shots if need be.

Before you spend about $400 on a surefire MP5 forearm consider buying a Streamlight M3. Mounts for the MP5/94 are about $20 and the M3 is about $175. You can then use that M3 on any handgun with a rail or on any other weapon you buy a M3 mount for. For $20 a pop you can put M3 mounts on your 870 and AR15. You can then walk the M3 light from firearm to firearm depending on need.

I found it to be a lot more versatile and makes more sense than $400 dedicated sure fire forearms, especially when they are going on $300 shotguns. Another advantage to the M3 is the mount is stationary so on a pump (Remington or Mossberg) you don't get the strobe effect from racking a handguard with a light on it.

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:31:32 AM EDT

[#16]

Shotgun, tritium sights and a light.
Loaded with #1 buck and a side saddle with alternatives including less than lethal.

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:34:28 AM EDT

[#17]

Something like this would be pretty good.

www.huntercustoms.com/photos/other_9by23_large_2.jpg

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:38:32 AM EDT

[#18]

I have a two-level strategy, depending on what seems to be going on. If it's a bump in the night or mildly suspicious noise (is there someone there at all?), I'll grab a pistol (currently a 92FS with Gold Dot HPs) to investigate. That's because it's faster and easier to maneuver around with and harder to get taken away from me. For the same reason, I'd also grab it if the threat was immediately at hand, such as someone at the bedroom door or trying to break into the bedroom window. If while investigating I find a more serious threat then I anticipated, or the pistol is just keeping them at bay, I'd fall back to the AR.

OTOH, if it sounds like a more serious threat (multiple people, potentially armed), I'll grab the AR (16" with Q3131), hunker down, and let them come to me. I'd try to call the police too, and I wouldn't go out looking for them for at least several minutes.

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:41:50 AM EDT

[#19]

I really like a two fold approach. Large menacing dog, and an AR. That way, I have time to call the Police and bunker down.....

Posted: 10/8/2005 11:25:20 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I really like a two fold approach. Large menacing dog, and an AR. That way, I have time to call the Police and bunker down.....

tinypic.com/efjgc0.jpg

Ok, but is he a good shot...?

Posted: 10/8/2005 11:28:14 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I really like a two fold approach. Large menacing dog, and an AR. That way, I have time to call the Police and bunker down.....

tinypic.com/efjgc0.jpg

Ok, but is he a good shot...?

She is more of a target holder really....I'm not that good a shot, so I figure it would help if the dog holds the bad guy on the ground...

Although she has perfect aim--every time she jumps up, she catches me in the nuts

Posted: 10/8/2005 11:31:55 AM EDT

[#22]

Claymores on trip wires around the 'perimeter' seem to stop them for ever making it inside the house, so the issue is mute.

Of course, having to get a new dog every other day is a real PITA.

Posted: 10/8/2005 12:03:30 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I have come to this conclusion myself I have recently purchased an HK 94 that will be replacing the 870 next to the bed once I get the Surfire forearm for it. I just finished mounting the Aimpoint and zeroing to the Irons. I feel this will be the best. Concusion and muzzle blast in an enclosed area just seems to be a major issue to me. With the Peltor tacs and the 94 I feel Im in good shape to defend my home and with precision shots if need be.

Before you spend about $400 on a surefire MP5 forearm consider buying a Streamlight M3. Mounts for the MP5/94 are about $20 and the M3 is about $175. You can then use that M3 on any handgun with a rail or on any other weapon you buy a M3 mount for. For $20 a pop you can put M3 mounts on your 870 and AR15. You can then walk the M3 light from firearm to firearm depending on need.

I found it to be a lot more versatile and makes more sense than $400 dedicated sure fire forearms, especially when they are going on $300 shotguns. Another advantage to the M3 is the mount is stationary so on a pump (Remington or Mossberg) you don't get the strobe effect from racking a handguard with a light on it.

Thanks for the Advice I will look into that. I recently purchased the Surfire Forend for my 870 and i have a freind who has some of the forends for the 94's for sale without the light module. Was wondering if the light module out of my 870 foearm would work in the Mp5 forearm?
I think I can get the forearm for a pretty decent deal.

Posted: 10/8/2005 12:34:16 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Marlin 1894c in .357 makes a great 'home gun' … If a lever action rifle was good enough to protect your homestead for John Wayne it's good enough for anyone!

ANdy

Speaking personally, I use an AR to defend the homestead.......Pilgrim.

The hell you do!

ANdy

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:20:00 PM EDT

[#25]

Okay, not everyone has access to an SBR or SBS. I definately do not have access to a real AR of any sort. I can't afford taking a big name class, either.

I do have a Remington 870 for home defense. Its 38.5" and will soon be 36.5" when I get a new stock. Is 36.5" an OK size?

I thought that someone here would know how to handle longguns indoors. Should I ask in another forum?

What about putting the stock under the armpit?

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:29:40 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Before you spend about $400 on a surefire MP5 forearm consider buying a Streamlight M3. Mounts for the MP5/94 are about $20 and the M3 is about $175. You can then use that M3 on any handgun with a rail or on any other weapon you buy a M3 mount for. For $20 a pop you can put M3 mounts on your 870 and AR15. You can then walk the M3 light from firearm to firearm depending on need.

I found it to be a lot more versatile and makes more sense than $400 dedicated sure fire forearms, especially when they are going on $300 shotguns. Another advantage to the M3 is the mount is stationary so on a pump (Remington or Mossberg) you don't get the strobe effect from racking a handguard with a light on it.

I love my Streamlight M3. I wouldn't trade it for any surefire.

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:31:37 PM EDT

[#27]

I pick a carbine for the ability to penetrate body armor and the rapid incapacitation compared to handgun rounds.

It's unlikely i will ever be the victim of a random home burglary. Its significantly more likely that I would be targeted by certain groups of people who i have adversly impacted economically in my prior assignment.

If NLR, La eme, Pen1 ever show up at my pad they will have the numbers and initiative. An handguonly would put me way behind their ooda loop. My 75lb early waning system and M4 carbine offer a greater chance of survival than a handgun.

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:41:22 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Okay, not everyone has access to an SBR or SBS. I definately do not have access to a real AR of any sort. I can't afford taking a big name class, either.

I do have a Remington 870 for home defense. Its 38.5" and will soon be 36.5" when I get a new stock. Is 36.5" an OK size?

I thought that someone here would know how to handle longguns indoors. Should I ask in another forum?

What about putting the stock under the armpit?

What do you specificly mean by "Handle a long gun indoors"?

It's not that hard. Just takes practice. You absolutely need a light system. The M3 is a good option. It's light and, [provides plenty illum. If you don't have one, hope you can get to the lights, 'casue you have a daylight weapon.

I was taught to advance with the barrell down, and, then, when entering a room, pick a side to go to and, snap the weapon up, You will want to practice weapons retention drills...Barell strikes, and, that sort of thing.

The class doesn't need to be big name, but, take a class. LEarning how to do somthing
that can potentially cost you your life is not best learned on the internet. Getting training to use your tools is not only a good idea, but, IMO, a moral responsiblity if you own a firearm.
If you can afford a weapon and, ammo, you can afford training.

Oh, if you are going to use a shotty, make sure you pattern that sucker. You will want to know how your weapon patterns at the projected engagment ranges you might find yourself at. When the BG is coming though the door is NOT the time to find out your weapon throws the pellets high and right.

You are asking a really general question. You might want to be more specific.

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:44:35 PM EDT

[#29]

Gotta go with the 12ga and 00 buck. about 15 ea 32 cal balls per round makes close count and the face is a helluva lot easier to hit with the shot pattern. Vests don't matter!! No overpenetration problems and no wounded to deal with.

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:48:19 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Gotta go with the 12ga and 00 buck. about 15 ea 32 cal balls per round makes close count and the face is a helluva lot easier to hit with the shot pattern. Vests don't matter!! No overpenetration problems and no wounded to deal with.

What?

Try nine .32 cal balls and a vest WILL stop them. Over penetration is ALWAYS an issue depending on your backstop.

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:49:35 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Its significantly more likely that I would be targeted by certain groups of people who i have adversly impacted economically in my prior assignment.

Classic.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:04:34 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

I dunno. Might ask SWAT teams that do entries with with long guns all the time.

If you think that an M-4 type AR is too long for manuvering indoors, then, I really
don't know what to say other than I think you are wrong.

I have no diffficulty at all moving with my Bushy, and, with the M3 light on it, it's just dandy
for HD. Much rather have it than my pistola, or my shotgun.

It's very simple, you have 4-8 guys with you. If you are one person, you have to take a hand off your longgun to operate a door lift or move something, the result is you can no longer operate a weapon mounted light or fire as effectively, and you don't have three buddies to shoot someone who pops out. Yes, you can clear a house with a rifle, and it is not exceedingly difficult, but i would want at least a second or third person with me.

Also when clearing small spaces like closets or bathrooms, most of the time they will transition to a pistol.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:05:27 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I have a two-level strategy, depending on what seems to be going on. If it's a bump in the night or mildly suspicious noise (is there someone there at all?), I'll grab a pistol (currently a 92FS with Gold Dot HPs) to investigate. That's because it's faster and easier to maneuver around with and harder to get taken away from me. For the same reason, I'd also grab it if the threat was immediately at hand, such as someone at the bedroom door or trying to break into the bedroom window. If while investigating I find a more serious threat then I anticipated, or the pistol is just keeping them at bay, I'd fall back to the AR.

OTOH, if it sounds like a more serious threat (multiple people, potentially armed), I'll grab the AR (16" with Q3131), hunker down, and let them come to me. I'd try to call the police too, and I wouldn't go out looking for them for at least several minutes.

This is the right idea.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:06:57 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Gotta go with the 12ga and 00 buck. about 15 ea 32 cal balls per round makes close count and the face is a helluva lot easier to hit with the shot pattern. Vests don't matter!! No overpenetration problems and no wounded to deal with.

See?

This is what I meant by not trying to learn about somthing that might cost you your life on the interweb.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:10:33 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.

That is contrary to the body of research on the issue.

Research? Who the hell listens to empirical facts!?

We just act based on ignorance, heresay, Guns & Ammo articles and what some guy who knows a dude who used to be a Ninja Seal has to say about terminal ballistics and self-defense.

Geesh, didn't you know that?

FBI????????????????????

olyarms.com/?page=223articles

Ammo selection is still important.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:11:39 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Gotta go with the 12ga and 00 buck. about 15 ea 32 cal balls per round makes close count and the face is a helluva lot easier to hit with the shot pattern. Vests don't matter!! No overpenetration problems and no wounded to deal with.

See?

This is what I meant by not trying to learn about somthing that might cost you your life on the interweb.

See my post up above regarding this chicken scratch.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:14:10 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Gotta go with the 12ga and 00 buck. about 15 ea 32 cal balls per round makes close count and the face is a helluva lot easier to hit with the shot pattern. Vests don't matter!! No overpenetration problems and no wounded to deal with.

See?

This is what I meant by not trying to learn about somthing that might cost you your life on the interweb.

Exactly.

The unknowing, spouting "facts' that they do not know.

Anyone that thinks a shotgun makes it "helluva lot easier to hit with the shot pattern" doesn't know what they are talking about. See:

www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

There is a reason Thunder Ranch costs over a thousand dollars for a course.

It's because it's worth it.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:15:16 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK, so how does one effectively manuever a long-gun indoors?

I dunno. Might ask SWAT teams that do entries with with long guns all the time.

If you think that an M-4 type AR is too long for manuvering indoors, then, I really
don't know what to say other than I think you are wrong.

I have no diffficulty at all moving with my Bushy, and, with the M3 light on it, it's just dandy
for HD. Much rather have it than my pistola, or my shotgun.

It's very simple, you have 4-8 guys with you. If you are one person, you have to take a hand off your longgun to operate a door lift or move something, the result is you can no longer operate a weapon mounted light or fire as effectively, and you don't have three buddies to shoot someone who pops out. Yes, you can clear a house with a rifle, and it is not exceedingly difficult, but i would want at least a second or third person with me.

Also when clearing small spaces like closets or bathrooms, most of the time they will transition to a pistol.

Well, of course having people along is a great idea. Personally, my backup will be my wife, who knows what she is doing, but, I can't depend on having her.

Point well taken on the transition, which I'd probably do if I had both weapons ready and on me. My personal philosiphy is that I can envision having time to grab one weapon, so, make it the most effective one possible, which, IMO, is my AR. If I'm clearing a closet, or what have you, I'll just click the light to constant on and, utilize the AR one handed. Not all that hard to do really. I'm certainly not going to go with a pistol over my AR becasue of clearing a few closets.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:23:16 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Okay, not everyone has access to an SBR or SBS. I definately do not have access to a real AR of any sort. I can't afford taking a big name class, either.

I do have a Remington 870 for home defense. Its 38.5" and will soon be 36.5" when I get a new stock. Is 36.5" an OK size?

I thought that someone here would know how to handle longguns indoors. Should I ask in another forum?

What about putting the stock under the armpit?

www.ftatv.com/ These guys come highly reccomended

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:24:39 PM EDT

[#40]

I agree there's no substitute for real training at all, but by listening to those of you who do know and, thankfully, you taking the time to admonish incorrect posts, we can learn here too. Thanks.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:35:25 PM EDT

[#41]

To anyone who thinks a longarm is a better choice for clearing a house, I challenge you to start in your room and methodically clear your house with your longarm. Then try it with a handgun.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:38:05 PM EDT

[#42]

I dont know about using an M3 on a longgun. Those lights are ok on a pistol, but I dont care for them on a longgun. Also, if you stand even the most remote chance of taking the gun outside, you'll see the light is lacking. Personally, I stick with with atleast 125 lumen light setups on my longguns.

When it comes to clearing with a longgun, its more about taking your time and working the angles of the house to your advantage than anything else. If you know someone is in your home and you have no need to move through the home (retrieve kids/infirmed family members), I would suggest you fall back to a safe room, get on the phone to 911, and hold what you got. Clearing a building by yourself isn't the smartest thing and there is a reason peolpe that do it all the time (military/police) don't get in solo.

When it comes to transitioning to a secondary while doing a clear, this might be an option if you arent worried about getting surprised in the middle of your transition. Personally I dont plan on transitioning unless I encounter a failure with my primary weapon. In a team context, transitioning to clear something like a closet is foolish and I dont know of many that actually engage in this practice. Normally, you'll have one person open the door, while a second person armed with a longgun clears the space. Also on this note, most entry teams that I know, send their first guy in with a long gun, not a pistol.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:38:20 PM EDT

[#43]

hey, we haven't had one of these in like a week!

tag

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:46:08 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
To anyone who thinks a longarm is a better choice for clearing a house, I challenge you to start in your room and methodically clear your house with your longarm. Then try it with a handgun.

I've practiced doing it with my AR, my shotty and, my pistol and, I can do it with my AR just fine. The whole point of this wasn't what's superior to clear a house with, it was about the best choice for HD situations, which, IMO, is the AR, hands down.

If you feel better doing it with a pistol then, that would be the right choice for you.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:47:52 PM EDT

[#45]

Too many people are equating home defense with having to clear your own structure. As I pointed out before, this isnt the best course of action when you know someone is inside.

Posted: 10/8/2005 3:50:57 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
I dont know about using an M3 on a longgun. Those lights are ok on a pistol, but I dont care for them on a longgun. Also, if you stand even the most remote chance of taking the gun outside, you'll see the light is lacking. Personally, I stick with with atleast 125 lumen light setups on my longguns.

I really like mine. It works like a champ. Also isn't as clunky as a Surefire.

Point taken on going outside, but, I don't feel that's a most likely COA
in most scenerios I can imagine myself in.

Posted: 10/8/2005 4:13:24 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
To anyone who thinks a longarm is a better choice for clearing a house, I challenge you to start in your room and methodically clear your house with your longarm. Then try it with a handgun.

I'm not sure I'll be taking advice from people who talking about "clearing" a house with one person

Like someone else already pointed out, this discussion is NOT about "clearing" a house, but about home defense in general.

But, even if you knew what you are talking about - I refer you back to the picture of my SBR.

Posted: 10/8/2005 4:22:19 PM EDT

[#48]

I don't see what the hell is so hard for you guys to figure out about home defense.

Land mines in the front yard, concertina wire on the front porch, backed up by Claymores on trip wires, and a couple of vicious dogs. I have never even had to test the stopping power of my M-79 grenade launcher.

Posted: 10/8/2005 4:28:36 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
To anyone who thinks a longarm is a better choice for clearing a house, I challenge you to start in your room and methodically clear your house with your longarm. Then try it with a handgun.

No offense, arfarf.

But reading stuff like this depresses me.

Do you really believe that those of us on this board do not know any more about the subject of firearms use in defense than this? Do you really think we are that stupid?

I don't mind people asking questions when they really want to learn. But replies like this one depress me.

Do we never make any progress on this board? Does the average Joe never learn anything?

There are a few people on this board that actually know what they are talking about. Too bad that they are often drowned out by ninjas that just say anything that pops into their head.

Bad answers are not only "wrong". They can get someone killed.

Posted: 10/8/2005 4:30:51 PM EDT

[#50]

Pistol is more convenient to have on hand. But frankly, I'd want a compact shotgun or carbine for firepower, ammo capacity, and a more stable platform for more accurate shots.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why are shotguns/carbines better for home defense? (Page 2 of 7)

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