[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who here works at an ammo manufacturer? Let's compare notes!*Wolf, Rem, Win, etc--are you out there (Page 2 of 8)
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Thanks for the info. What exactly would be cause for rejects? Surely they aren't going to be selling squibs or dangerous loads right? They could be rejected based on range of weight, case varnish on the exterior of the case, primer scratches (deep), non-visible annealing iris, no visible primer sealant, large dents, corrosion with "breadth and depth", mis-colored case, or it just plain looks ugly. MOST defects come from the neck and shoulder area––folds/fissures/oil dents. The manual is several dozen pages long that we grade by. |
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Glad you guys are doing that and not me. No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. 
Actually, the machine puts the cartridges on the clips, the operator stacks three clips together and puts them in another machine and presses a button, and that machine shoves them into the cardboard sleeves and conveys them to another operator, who then stacks them in the box, tapes the box shut, and stacks the baox on a pallet. Monotonous drudgery, but pays pretty good. Recently, the "clippered" Xm193 has all had the NATO cross headstamp, which I think is great news for us gunnies. And it has all looked really nice for the past few months. At least the stiff I had the opportunity to QC. About April/May of this year, I would not have bought the stuff. I might actually pony up to retail prices and get some now. |
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XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? I don't know. We do the same thing with M855...at Federal, we deal with it as XM855. Has the green tip and everything. |
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Are the XM193 rejects merely "cosmetic" like I've heard or might they be less reliable? See previous post. None of the "shooter" people at federal buy it, because we would have to pay retail (no seconds on military or XM loads). we get good enough deals on the high end stuff and AE (which is sometimes Xm193, we just ran out of XM193 sleeves and had to put it into AE sleeves that day), so we buy that. |
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Hey ChickenDaddy. What the hell are you doing off work surfing ARFCOM. You do know about the ammo shortage, don't you ?? You should be working 24/7 and be rich by now. I'll bet the Government told you to take off work, didn't they ?  TT LOL. we were supposed to get super bowl sunday off if the Vikings won last night, but we all know how that turned out!
Federal shut down for a week around Christmas (only because all our suppliers shut down and we would have run out of materials), but we really do work 24/7. |
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For sure cosmetic, not sure about the testing LC uses.
Who's getting all the ammo? Well, if it's not in the Federal warehouse, and it's not on the shelves at the retailers, that could only leave ammo whores or with the distributors.What do you make THE MOST of? 9MM American Eagle for civvies, 40 S&W for homeland security, and 223/556 for military and law enforcement; with primers and 22 long rifle on the very top. and to reiterate a previous poster; are rejects cosmetic or did a few rounds fail some function test and they drop the whole lot? |
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Who's getting all the ammo? This. As an FFL, we're still having a bitch of a time getting ammo for our customers. Where the fuck is it all going? If these manufacturers are all running 24/7 like they say, you would think we could at least find more than 1 case of 45 every other week. We can't even get most common calibers as employees at our pricing, so the shortage affects us, too. It all goes out. In fact, we now have customers buying what is considered second and third quality ammo (especially in small rifle) for components or to shoot––ammo we used to not let out to the "civilian" market. So we are cut out of several calibers entirely as employees. Also, as far as our employee ammo benefit––you get the non-gun people working a line, and they don't pull anything like they should, so we have less for us...which is good for you, as you get more ammo then. |
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No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. Depending on whether you get a "gun guy" working the machines that day, depends on the quality of the product. I'm sorry to say that most days, you are getting non-gun guys and girls working these lines. Bu, bu but but but...ammo will teh blow up if you tumble it in soft media 
the stuff we make (9mm soft point in 95 gr) for Royal ordnance/Radway green, overseas (which has no label indicating it is from federal OR US made), is actually tumbled AFTER it passes all the checks, then checked again. If it turns out it was packaged before being tumbled, the entire lot is rejected. it is actually part of the process to be tumbled after it is entirely assembled, or it is "no good" to the customer. interesting, huh? The quality guy says it's shelf life is somehow diminsihed if that part of the process is left out. |
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That would be like working in the US Mint making gold eagles, get to handle and see all the nice merchandise that you can't take home  ESPECIALLY all that great military 556...imagine how the workers at LC feel––they make the majority of the 556/50BMG/7.62x51.
Are the lines running full steam ahead?No. Only the most common calibers (they have priority). We actually have run the 45ACP packaging line only twice in the last two weeks (my shift). However, the GOAL is to have all machines running 100%.I would say that the JIT lines (make brass), bullet assembly lines, washers, ovens, and loaders are all there except for break downs and staffing. Packaging and non-common calibers vary. Primer insertion is 75%. primer lines full speed. We need a surplus so pricing can come down a bit |
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Thanks for some of the insight ChickenDaddy. So someone somewhere is ordering M193 ammo which is good for us - XM193. And you say that you are cranking it out as fast as you can. Guess it's going to the .gov and LEO groups first to fulfill those contracts and then to distributors. So it would seem that this is why a caliber like .45 ACP isn't such a common run vs 9mm, .40, and 5.56. Edited to say you answered this above while I was typing. |
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ChickenDaddy, In a large production facility like this, how is the powder dispensed into each brass cartridge? Is it by volume or is each powder charge weighed individually for each cartridge? Thanks!  Comes to each station in 45-60 pound cannisters. Operator feeds it into the machine from an elevated gravity bin. The metering device is huge, old and complex––too much to get into here. Metered by volume, run through a scale as a completed cartridge, checked by ballistics to ensure pressures and accuracy are within range, adjusted and checked again...all by range. Slightly different than hand loading at home. |
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Who's getting all the ammo? This. As an FFL, we're still having a bitch of a time getting ammo for our customers. Where the fuck is it all going? If these manufacturers are all running 24/7 like they say, you would think we could at least find more than 1 case of 45 every other week. So OP, is your plant running 24/7?? Yup. |
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Why did you stop making Fed 210 LR primers? Don't know...but if I ever make it into a marketing job, I'll remember to get back to you!No, no. Don't deny it, I haven't seen any in a looooooooonnnnng time. 1000 for my Arisaka would last the rest of my life. I don't want to have to work up another load with CCIs, etc. |
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I agree100%.
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Free samples ?
for QC purposes? yeah, thats it, QC . yes please!  Yes and of HST .40 and .45 ammunition in particular.  I just bought 10 boxes of that .40 HST today, the guy ahead of me grabbed the full case...
On a more serious note, Federal needs to go ahead and jump on the 6.8 SPC bandwagon. Ditto for Winchester. |
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How about some photos? Its like better then the best porn. Sorry––maybe I can find some pics of rounds that have been QC'ed, but no cameras are allowed in the plant. Imagine if some idiot set off a flash on a camera and activated all the anti-explosion and fire safety devices. that whole section of the plant would be shut down for days. then you'd REALLY be seeing an ammo shortage. |
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OK, another question for you since you're the only ammo guy willing to speak. What kind of training do you have to work there? Do you just need a high school education or are they looking for someone with more education, mechanical experience, etc? Do they provide most of the training there onsite? Maintenance guys the only ones that know the tricks to keep the machines going? Is there any smoking allowed anywhere at the production facility? |
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The company I work for supplies ATK with all it's aluminum for Blazer ammo in Lewiston, ID. Visited their plant in Lewiston several years ago. Great bunch of guys. Took us jet boating on the Snake River.
I've been trying to get freebies out of them for a long time. They come through every once in awhile.
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OK, another question for you since you're the only ammo guy willing to speak. What kind of training do you have to work there? Do you just need a high school education or are they looking for someone with more education, mechanical experience, etc? High school ed and pass an entrance exam––which has math, english, spatial relationships, psychology and mechanical aptitude portions. Pass a BATFE check. Mechanical aptitude is KEY for production,;management positions they like to see production XP and a degree or many years XP. We have several ex-UPS managers in management right now, which i think is telling about the direction Federal (under ATK) is headed. Federal does a lot less hiring from the floor for supervision than in the past. We have a lot of ex-concrete /constructionworkers and twenty something year olds (all who know everything, just like I did when i was in that age category). I think they look positively upon military XP. However, when i interviewed, they did not think my hand loading XP applied much to the factory work, and I basically told then they were wrong. And i was right––it really does apply. Do they provide most of the training there onsite? Supposed to, but that's not reality. Hopefully you get a good trainer or pick things up. production workers are supposed to be able to keep their machines going and adjusted to a point––spend too much time on something and you are required to call maintenence. Maintenance guys the only ones that know the tricks to keep the machines going? Is there any smoking allowed anywhere at the production facility? Yes, smoking is allowed right outside several plant and production entrances, in little smoke shacks. They even have electric lighters, since you are not allowed to have lighters on your person. |
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The company I work for supplies ATK with all it's aluminum for Blazer ammo in Lewiston, ID. Visited their plant in Lewiston several years ago. Great bunch of guys. Took us jet boating on the Snake River. I've been trying to get freebies out of them for a long time. They come through every once in awhile. I'd really like to tour Lewiston some day. Was it pretty modern? |
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OK, another question for you since you're the only ammo guy willing to speak. What kind of training do you have to work there? Do you just need a high school education or are they looking for someone with more education, mechanical experience, etc? Do they provide most of the training there onsite? Maintenance guys the only ones that know the tricks to keep the machines going? Is there any smoking allowed anywhere at the production facility? LOL...I would refuse to hire anyone that asked that at an interview...especially if it were at an ammo plant.
Most every work place these days is a non-smoking facility, unless you at a casino, bar or whorehouse. Go outside and freeze! 
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One thing I forgot about the .mil rounds––we make the SCAR load in 556 and 762, the bullets are made in house. All become SCAR rounds and are sent to various .mil and government agencies.
the brown tipped training round (frangible and non toxic) is out sourced (bullet) and assembled in-house. |
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The company I work for supplies ATK with all it's aluminum for Blazer ammo in Lewiston, ID. Visited their plant in Lewiston several years ago. Great bunch of guys. Took us jet boating on the Snake River. I've been trying to get freebies out of them for a long time. They come through every once in awhile. I'd really like to tour Lewiston some day. Was it pretty modern? Chicken, Our tour was about 10 years ago. The machines were all older looking best I remember but they have gotten new tooling since being there. They tooks us to the machines that ran aluminum. It was interesting to see that little slug of al. turn into a .45 shell casing. The QC Dept. was state of the art. That's where they showed me the "Vault". Damn near any modern rifle or pistol you could imagine was in that vault. They pulled out a MP5 and let me shoot it in full auto.
It was a great trip. Told them when I was there people would pay good money to tour the factory........they didn't think much about it.
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Quoted: Quoted: OK, another question for you since you're the only ammo guy willing to speak. What kind of training do you have to work there? Do you just need a high school education or are they looking for someone with more education, mechanical experience, etc? Do they provide most of the training there onsite? Maintenance guys the only ones that know the tricks to keep the machines going? Is there any smoking allowed anywhere at the production facility? LOL...I would refuse to hire anyone that asked that at an interview...especially if it were at an ammo plant. Most every work place these days is a non-smoking facility, unless you at a casino, bar or whorehouse. Go outside and freeze! Which is why I asked. Knowing that they have lots of stuff that can blow up I wondered if they even had a smoking spot outside. Not having lighters just like BATFE requires. |
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XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? This is an common point of contention when XM193 is discussed, do you have any answers to this? Quoted:
One thing I forgot about the .mil rounds––we make the SCAR load in 556 and 762, the bullets are made in house. All become SCAR rounds and are sent to various .mil and government agencies. the brown tipped training round (frangible and non toxic) is out sourced (bullet) and assembled in-house. What are these? Are these labeled as FN ammunition? Projectile type and weight? |
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Quoted: Interesting. Now this is the stuff I like to read in GD.No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. Depending on whether you get a "gun guy" working the machines that day, depends on the quality of the product. I'm sorry to say that most days, you are getting non-gun guys and girls working these lines. It's nice to get the "inside scoop". |
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Quoted: Quoted: No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. Depending on whether you get a "gun guy" working the machines that day, depends on the quality of the product. I'm sorry to say that most days, you are getting non-gun guys and girls working these lines. Bu, bu but but but...ammo will teh blow up if you tumble it in soft media Ok, I got a question...... I have seen first hand a primer go off from having a round "thrown back in the bin". It's happened more than once on our range (our dept probably goes through at least a million rounds a year). I've also seen a write up on this exact thing in on of the gun rags not too long ago. So, how often does this happen at work? |
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When are you guys gonna surplus more of that 95 grain 9mm softpoint? it's my favorite. that's the RORG load for the UK. Heads rolled every time you see it surplussed. I just missed out on snagging some this week, it was gone from the semployee store in half an hour. (at least what was on the shelf that day. We have limits per day on how many boxes we can buy). |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? IDK about foreign militaries or our own, but the .gov buys a metric shit ton of M193 for various groups, agencies and units. Could be where alot of it is coming from. |
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I work as a waiter, a few weeks back i had a bunch of guys from the Radford Army Arsenal Plant, Which I think is ATK. Anyways, I asked them what they do and they said work lathes. Do they make small arms rounds on lathes or is that the big boy stuff? Sorry––only thing I know about Radford is that ATK manages it. |