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Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:44:38 AM EDT
Great presidents ceased to exist back when politicians stopped getting elected because they cared about the country and its citizens and started getting elected for the pay/retirement benefits and because they had their own personal agendas.

How long ago was that anyway... about 200+ years ago?

When a president puts up a wall along the Mexi-can't border, throws out ALL of the illegals, gives cops the authority to conduct war on KNOWN drug infested neighborhoods/cities, gives the CIA permission to conduct black-ops like assassinations, tells the UN to f**k off, and evens out our trade policy with countries that rape us, I might consider that one to be high on the potential list of greats.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:33:26 AM EDT
The Greatest, certainly not. If he would close the damn borders already his stock would go up a few points.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:42:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
sorry but no.

there have been MUCH better presidents in the past. Bush was definantly better than the alternative but that is about it. On domestic issues and curtailing governement growth he's been as bad or worse than his father.



That makes it sound like Osama made him as a president. By that I mean if it were not for 11th of September, Bush would have no pivitol defining moment as it were. He would have been just another president toiling away at budgets and tax codes.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Not the greatest "ever", but a good one. Far better than the alternatives he ran against.



+1

+2
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:45:44 AM EDT
You'd have to be a simpleton to think him the "greatest."

He's made a lot of mistakes, not the least of which has been spending like a goddamn liberal democrat and failing to address the border problems.

The bottom line is he was a far better choice than the jokers he ran against.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:48:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:
That makes it sound like Osama made him as a president. By that I mean if it were not for 11th of September, Bush would have no pivitol defining moment as it were. He would have been just another president toiling away at budgets and tax codes.



Who's to say how things would have gone had 9/11 not happened.

Would he still have invaded Iraq? Based on the reasons, I can't see why he wouldn't have. The reason existed with or without us being attacked.

Is it possible a lot of the economic decisions made were at least partly based on the condition of our economy as a result of the global war on terrorism (i.e. department of defense spending, homeland security spending, etc)?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:48:44 AM EDT
I am a huge W supporter. Personally, i think he is one of the best we've had. The right choices are not always the most popular & that's what differentiates him from others. Only time will tell if he's "The Greatest" but i have a feeling that 20 years from now the history books will hail him & his policies as monumentual achievments that changed the course of history for the better.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:10:24 PM EDT
He sucks big donkey dicks!!!!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:15:42 PM EDT
I think Ronald Reagan was the best.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:35:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rasanders22:
I believe that he is great and the country would be a lot worse if those liberals had their way. President Bush is my hero and I believe that he is doing a greater good for those Iraquis than anyone else out there.






With due respect...what Koolaid have you been drinking? I disagree 10,000% The ONLY thing I credit Bush for is his stance on gun rights.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:36:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
We need 8 more years of the original GW.

George Washington.



+1
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:37:01 PM EDT
lincoln, reagan, then everyone else.

bush plays a good lesser of two evils, but alone, no way.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:38:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WyattEarp:
I am a huge W supporter. Personally, i think he is one of the best we've had. The right choices are not always the most popular & that's what differentiates him from others. Only time will tell if he's "The Greatest" but i have a feeling that 20 years from now the history books will hail him & his policies as monumentual achievments that changed the course of history for the better.



as a person, I love him. great guy who sticks to his guns, religious, etc.... but president, ehhhhhh
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:39:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
. On domestic issues and curtailing governement growth he's been as bad or worse than his father.



well put......
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:44:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB_Metal:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
We need 8 more years of the original GW.

George Washington.



+1



+2

An amazing man, really could have been King. Walked away from it all. There will never be another.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:55:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 1:56:19 PM EDT by K2QB3]
Originally Posted By shotar:

"I would put him on equal footing with the best ever. He is certainly as great as Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt.. "

I agree with that much, he's at least as great as those guys were.

Teddy was a whole lot better, so was RR, so was JFK.

He's not even in the same league as Jefferson, Washington, Adams, etc.

I don't understand how anybody can call Wilson a great president with a straight face, the wound he knowingly inflicted on the republic is still festering to this day.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:55:43 PM EDT
Worst Republican President in my lifetime.

I agree that he is doing a lot for the Iraqis. What about us?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:28:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 3:32:43 PM EDT by Wobblin-Goblin]
Well, let's see how he stacks up against the most recent presidents:

42 Clinton: Inherited a very bad economy, but it was already heading in the right direction when he took office. There were terrorist attacks during his watch that he largely ignored except for lobbing a few missles at empty camps. Clinton gave us the AWB and continued the dismantling of our military that Bush41 started. Bush43 inherited a bad economy that was heading in the wrong direction and faced the worst attack on our soil ever. The economy rebounded pretty well (due to tax cuts) and we have terrorists on the run everywhere. The AWB went away during his watch and we also got junk lawsuit immunity for firearms manufacturers. However, we also got CFR and massive, ultra-massive increases in .gov spending. Our border situation sucks as well. Bush43 wins by TKO in the middle rounds.

41 Bush: Inherited a booming economy and a strong military. During his term, the economy tanked hard and we won a major theater war rather easily. He gave us the '89 Import Ban and tax increases ("Read my lips...") in 1990. Bush43 wins by TKO in the early rounds.

40 Reagan: Inherited an economy in shambles that was going nowhere and our foreign policy was a joke. The military was a wreck as well. During his tenure, he helped the economy rebound into a powerhouse, he rebuilt the military to the point at which it could fight and win a skirmish here and there, not to mention a full-out war after he left office. He gave us tax cuts, FOPA, and a renewed optimism that America really could be great again. His most lasting accomplishment will always be the downfall of the Soviet Union and Communism in general. Reagan40 wins by TKO in the late rounds.

39 Carter: Elected only because the man who held the office two terms before was paranoid and power-hungry. In virtually every measurable criteria he was piss-poor. The country he handed to Reagan 40 was in disarray. Bush43 wins by KO in the first round.

38 Ford: Inherited a country in crisis due to Watergate and its fallout. His two biggest claims to fame are that he was the only president ever to be not elected to either the VP or Pres. posts, and that he pardoned Nixon. He didn't really do much in the short time he held office other than hold the country together. Bush43 wins by TKO in the late rounds.

37 Nixon: Inherited the war in Vietnam and an economy that wasn't doing well. At times he did very well (Linebackers I and II, Cambodia), and at times did exceedingly poorly (price controls, gold standard, Watergate). Opened up relations with Red China, FWIW. In the end, he left office in much-deserved disgrace. Bush43 wins by TKO in the middle rounds.

36 Johnson: Inherited a good economy and a strong foreign policy. He wasted both and threw in the War on Poverty and GCA of '68 to boot. Bush43 wins by KO in the early rounds.

35 Kennedy: A conservative Democrat, he was strong on foreign policy. On many levels, he helped give Americans pride. An assasin's bullet ended his tenure too soon to really tell what kind of president he might have made. Bush43 wins on points.

34 Eisenhower: Inherited the Korean War and a good economy. The war ended early in his first term and the economy chugged along nicely while he held the presidency. Other than the Cold War with the Soviet Union (and the Sputnik satellite), not much threatened the US during his two terms. Bush43 wins on points.

33 Truman: Inherited the end of WWII (and the atomic bomb). He ended WWII convincingly and handled the transition to a peacetime nation well. Historians disagree whether or not his approach to the Korean War was appropriate or not. Bush43 wins on points.

32 Roosevelt: Inherited the Great Depression and led the country through most of WWII. Despite the fact that he tried to turn the economy around by simply spending as much money as possible domestically, it was WWII that actually ended the Great Depression. His persona was "Reaganesque" in that Americans looked to him for pride and comfort, but much of his domestic agenda was nothing short of Socialism. Bush43 win on points.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:32:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By K2QB3:
Originally Posted By shotar:

"I would put him on equal footing with the best ever. He is certainly as great as Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt.. "

I agree with that much, he's at least as great as those guys were.

Teddy was a whole lot better, so was RR, so was JFK.

He's not even in the same league as Jefferson, Washington, Adams, etc.

I don't understand how anybody can call Wilson a great president with a straight face, the wound he knowingly inflicted on the republic is still festering to this day.



Adams gave us the alien sedition act, so, I guess GWB could be on the same level as him
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:45:00 PM EDT
GWB the greatest President? - Not in my opininion. Top 5 maybe but not the greatest. I recently finished an audio lecture series about our founding brothers (Washington, Adams, Franklin, etc). Those guys had some skills. I doubt that they would have run had they been born 200 yrs later as most believed that if you had to "campaign" for the presidency you weren't worthy.

That said, I'm proud to have voted for him twice.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:51:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Well, let's see how he stacks up against the most recent presidents:
32 Roosevelt: Inherited the Great Depression and led the country through most of WWII. Despite the fact that he tried to turn the economy around by simply spending as much money as possible domestically, it was WWII that actually ended the Great Depression. His persona was "Reaganesque" in that Americans looked to him for pride and comfort, but much of his domestic agenda was nothing short of Socialism. Bush43 win on points.




*gasp* Hello! N.F.A.!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:54:09 PM EDT
I'd rank him in the bottom 3rd.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:02:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
We need 8 more years of the original GW.

George Washington.



+1 Trillion

I am very dissappointed in GWB. He was better than the alternatives, but that's damning him with faint praise.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:04:55 PM EDT
he was waaaay better then Carter.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:31:54 PM EDT
Great Presidents have been few and far between. Out of the 40+ we have had maybe a dozen were great, and the others were mediocre or pathetic.

TR was the last great President we had.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:39:36 PM EDT
lesser of two evils
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:40:21 PM EDT
Best ever?

No.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:40:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
sorry but no.

there have been MUCH better presidents in the past. Bush was definantly better than the alternative but that is about it. On domestic issues and curtailing governement growth he's been as bad or worse than his father.



I agree, without reading further.

Best of the bunch.

My god.

Gore?

Kerry?

If you are going to sit here and tell me they'd be better?

You're out of your fucking mind.

I'm not a GW fan...But, I know bread/butter quotient.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:42:50 PM EDT
I think Thomas Jefferson was the Greatest President, followed by Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:53:27 PM EDT
He's definitely a good one. I don't know about best ever. Each have their own thing to offer (or not).

As a Governor (of our Great State) he signed our CHL (CCW) legislation into law. For that I think he's the best Gov that Texas has had. But then again I'm biased.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:04:03 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:08:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
We need 8 more years of the original GW.

George Washington.


amen
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:32:17 PM EDT


Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
We need 8 more years of the original GW.

George Washington.




You guys crack me up.
Now don't take this wrong because I am totally on your side but

DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK GEORGE WASHINGTON COULD GET ELECETED THESE DAYS?

Not a prayer. Not even if he won another revolution. Well then maybe. Maybe.

Jefferson, Adams nor any of the founding fathers would stand a chance of election to almost any office. That's how far we have gone from the original intent of this country. Hell, if they saw what was going on they'd probably move somewhere else. Even the conservative leaders are socialists, falling all over one another to see how many votes they can buy with the public money and what screwy special interest they can kiss the ass of.

We've been lucky thus far. 2 oceans separate us from most of our enemies. At least those powerful enough to cause us problems. We have had good breeding stock up until the past couple of generations, and a country rich in natural resources - resources we have gone a fair ways to overutilizing to the point we are dependent on other nations for them. We have lost our manufacturing base to the point it is a national security debacle and the trade deficit bleeds a little more of our future every year.

Not all doom and gloom - we are a prosperous and, as yet, strong nation but we are sure heading in the wrong direction and neither GWB, nor anyone like him, is going to be enough to turn this country around.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:38:30 PM EDT
In my opinion Bush or as some call "hero" humm rasanders22, is nothing more than another puppet put in office to make the people feel that they have someone they can blame for. Bush does make a better President than the alternative but who can say they both are controlled by more powerful people in this world.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:40:11 PM EDT
Bush isn't half the man that T.R. was.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:42:38 PM EDT
One of the better Presidents I think would be Ronald Regan, not some daddy's little boy that grew up in Texas with everything not even having to serve his country in the military because daddy said so. (false documents that he ever served)
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:20:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigJoe22:
One of the better Presidents I think would be Ronald Regan, not some daddy's little boy that grew up in Texas with everything not even having to serve his country in the military because daddy said so. (false documents that he ever served)


Dan Rather, is that you?

I would have thought you would have chosen a better board name.

Eric The(What'sTheFrequency,Kenneth?)Hun
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:22:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigJoe22:
One of the better Presidents I think would be Ronald Regan, not some daddy's little boy that grew up in Texas with everything not even having to serve his country in the military because daddy said so. (false documents that he ever served)


We have been infiltrated again.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:33:41 PM EDT
Nope. Who is this Dan Rather anyways? plus I left myself logged in so someone at my work (rasanders22) decided on some fun at my expense. Sorry for the confusion.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:40:29 PM EDT
GWB best pres ever? FUCK NO!!!

Id like to see that idiot laying nest to tookie right now!

Two words-----> Patriot Act

Buck Fush, that puppet is robbing us of our civil liberties and is shitting all over 'that goddamned piece of paper' as he called it, A.K.A the constitution.


Snide little prick!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:42:24 PM EDT
Lot's of November babies lately....
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:33:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By BigJoe22:
One of the better Presidents I think would be Ronald Regan, not some daddy's little boy that grew up in Texas with everything not even having to serve his country in the military because daddy said so. (false documents that he ever served)


We have been infiltrated again.



BigJoe22 is a conservative christian. I know because I work with him. He likes to repeat what he hears other say, expecially one guy who thinks Germany bombed pearl harbor.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:35:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidHayter:
GWB best pres ever? FUCK NO!!!

Id like to see that idiot laying nest to tookie right now!

Two words-----> Patriot Act

Buck Fush, that puppet is robbing us of our civil liberties and is shitting all over 'that goddamned piece of paper' as he called it, A.K.A the constitution.


Snide little prick!



Why I dont agree with the patriot act or his views on border security, he doesnt deserve to die over it. And thansk for flagging this site on the SS computers.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:54:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidHayter:
GWB best pres ever? FUCK NO!!!

Id like to see that idiot laying nest to tookie right now!

Two words-----> Patriot Act

Buck Fush, that puppet is robbing us of our civil liberties and is shitting all over 'that goddamned piece of paper' as he called it, A.K.A the constitution.


Snide little prick!


Son, IF I were you, and Thank God I'm not, I would certainly 'edit' out those asinine sentiments of yours before the Mods awaken this morning!

I've been appointed to represent two criminal defendants in federal court for threatening the life of the President (both, strangely, threatened Jimmy Carter) and what they were alleged to have said doesn't differ much from what you just wrote!

A word to the wise, m'boy.

Eric The(BTW,BothWoundUpAtTheFederalMentalHospital­InSpringfield)Hun
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:56:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:39:51 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]

personal attacks removed[/

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 2:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 2:24:17 PM EDT by JB_Metal]

Originally Posted By badhand1:
He sucks big donkey dicks!!!!



LOL

+10,000

PS: Can I be taken to Federal Court for saying "+10,000" to this???!?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:52:59 PM EDT
Not even close.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:06:27 PM EDT
Yes. The best in MY lifetime so far!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:31:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
sorry but no.

there have been MUCH better presidents in the past. Bush was definantly better than the alternative but that is about it. On domestic issues and curtailing governement growth he's been as bad or worse than his father.



+1000
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:00:25 PM EDT

Jorge Bush:

Second worst president ever.

#1 FDR. Total communist. No ifs ands or butts. Consciously provoked and pretended not to anticipate Pearl Harbor to justify entering the biggest and most destructive war in history to placate his kosher masters and Communist comrades. It remains to be seen whether he effectively sold our entire civilization to the Traditional Enemy. He tried his darndest, though.

#2 Jorge Bush. Where does one start, or end. If you think he or any of these "neo-conservative" ex-commie Kosher clowns now posing as conservatives are conservative at all, you need to put the crack pipe down. Their apparent support for the 2nd amendment is merely an act of prudence. Thankfully, we gun owners are a potent electoral check on this post-American "America," and Bush would ban em all if he could afford it. Let's not forget the ban Bush Sr, enacted or W's pledge to renew the GD'd CRIME BILL that cost Clinton a friendly congress in 94.

which brings us to

#3 Taco Bill. Walking piece of dog shit on a stick. As the US slides deeper and deeper into hyper corruption and socio-political insanity a'la Hollywood (aka lil' Tel Aviv), Clinton was likely the first of many clown presidents in an America so rotten to the core, so subordinated to Israeli interests that the only 'man' complacent enough to smile and thumbs-up our civilization into third-world status this rapidly is a cocaine addict. Look who followed...

--------

Before you guys give me any shit for calling Bush for the surreal, evil puppet he is, make no mistake: I watched two of my comrades die in his war for Israeli hegemony. Whether we like it or not the Republican party is now enemy occupied territory, and some of us are not content to sit, grin, and clap simply cause we wish it weren't so.

Jorge W Bush: 2ND WORSE PRES EVER.

Too bad he's so stinking rich. Unlike the rest of us, he'll never have to bump elbows with the murderous, revolutionary Mexican slime he has flooded this country with, under the watch of a Homeland Security (what the fuck is the military supposed to be?!) chief who holds dual citizenship in an aggressive country that owns our media, owns our politicians, has taken more money from us than any other, yet still has killed our men in uniform time and again with impunity.

Go ahead and delete my post but first, copy it to your HD and see if you can refute it at home. Sorry bubs, you can't!
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