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Link Posted: 9/23/2022 9:34:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Blue marble infested with humans.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 9:52:49 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Of the some ~20 trillion galaxies within the observable Universe, a whopping 19.962 trillion of them would have no way of even knowing that our home world existed.

Human beings, the only intelligent, advanced civilization known to us, have only been around for a couple of hundred thousand years.

Only the few thousand nearest star systems would know that we’ve become technologically advanced; only those within our home galaxy and slightly outside of it could even know of our existence.
View Quote

This all hinges on distant beings coming here because of us.
Earth is 4.5B years old.
How do we know they didn't visit 546M years ago (even before dinosaurs), take some samples, and leave?

Not to mention, all of that assumes their technology isn't far more advanced than ours. Look what we've done in only the last 100yrs. Where do you think we'll be in another 100? What if they're at like year 2000, in a relative to our technology age?

We're always discovering how little we know about science. To assume something is impossible, at this point, is absurd.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 10:10:47 AM EDT
[#3]
"Pale Blue Dot"
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 10:40:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Space is really big but it's only really big for us. If there is other life out there (and I can't believe that there isn't) and if they have visited Earth then that means they have overcome the problem of the vast distances to travel those vast distances. Given the enormity of the universe or space in general I think it's highly probable that there are other life forms out there far older than us and much more advanced. We just learned to fly in our own atmosphere in the last century, we are infants theoretically.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 10:47:30 AM EDT
[#5]
It looks just like it does up close.  Only smaller.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 11:14:51 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


I imagine the ants sitting in a giant sprawling underground complex. Content with themselves and their obviously grandiose achievements.  

Inside the anthill they are debating if there are ants somewhere else across vast distances. They all conclude no. It would be impossible for an ant to make it anywhere but just a tiny bit farther than they've been able to expand to.

Since they don't all see the other ants coming by their hill it's proof they are alone.

Imagine trying to explain to those idiot ants that there's a place called Australia, and it has ants. And the Earth is a spheroid. And there are humans living here too and they are advanced beyond recognition. They can put ants on board an airplane and take them to Australia if they chose but they don't give a fuck mostly so they don't. And those humans even know that the pin points of light in the sky are other planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies full of the same.

The stupid little ants would just be like "I don boliv et."


You are here.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
We will most likely be long gone before someone has time to notice we even existed.   We are alone.

Nothing but swamp gas and weather balloons.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmKkQsD0/1503605069-20130115-radio-broadcasts-2.jpg


I imagine the ants sitting in a giant sprawling underground complex. Content with themselves and their obviously grandiose achievements.  

Inside the anthill they are debating if there are ants somewhere else across vast distances. They all conclude no. It would be impossible for an ant to make it anywhere but just a tiny bit farther than they've been able to expand to.

Since they don't all see the other ants coming by their hill it's proof they are alone.

Imagine trying to explain to those idiot ants that there's a place called Australia, and it has ants. And the Earth is a spheroid. And there are humans living here too and they are advanced beyond recognition. They can put ants on board an airplane and take them to Australia if they chose but they don't give a fuck mostly so they don't. And those humans even know that the pin points of light in the sky are other planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies full of the same.

The stupid little ants would just be like "I don boliv et."


You are here.


I think you missed the point.  We are not ants.  We are able to understand that life can exist, or could have existed, or may exist at some point in TIME.

The problem is two fold.  Existing at the same time, and covering the distance.  We have not existed long enough cross paths with another life form.  
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 12:04:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Birds are real, though, right?
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
We will most likely be long gone before someone has time to notice we even existed.   We are alone.

Nothing but swamp gas and weather balloons.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmKkQsD0/1503605069-20130115-radio-broadcasts-2.jpg
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Neat.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 12:21:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 12:36:25 PM EDT
[#10]
It's all pretty fascinating how huge everything is outside our world.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 12:37:12 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
If the sun was as big as as a golf ball the nearest star would be about 760 miles away.  

To propel a shuttle sized space ship 1/3rd the speed of light would take all the human energy production on earth for three years.

We have been brainwashed by 100 years of science fiction to think we can go star trekking across the universe but it ain't gonna happen.
View Quote
This.
In all these threads there are many assertions of "There must be" advanced alien civilizations who "Will have" the ability to travel FTL.
Not true.
There are no "Musts".
Only "Maybes", and a lot of uninformed speculation.
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
We are only now realizing the existential threat posed by even relatively small asteroids. Our first attempt to "deflect" one comes this week, as the Globalized trade structure that has only existed for 3/4 of a century starts unraveling and the world(and this forum) is filled with apocalyptic leaders and plotters.
Within a century we ourselves may no longer be a global civilization.
Look at the Kardashev scale and ask yourself how will humanity ever unify enough to harness the complete output of the sun?
How long would it take for a civilization to develop, finance and implement an interstellar probe, much less a fleet of Von Neumann machines that would eventually span multiple solar systems in the local area. Centuries? Millennia? With the lifespan of a sentient being only likely to be measured in a century or two? Then for the Machines to spread beyond a few hundred light years would take an epoch.
All meat ages, senesces and dies. Cultures wax and wane.
The Speed of Light is a motherfucker.
"
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 12:53:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This all hinges on distant beings coming here because of us.
Earth is 4.5B years old.
How do we know they didn't visit 546M years ago (even before dinosaurs), take some samples, and leave?
View Quote

Whose to say they didn't drop the rock on the dinosaurs to wipe them out.   There is a ton of sci-fi about less than friendly aliens who sweep the stars looking to eliminate future competition


Link Posted: 9/23/2022 2:07:46 PM EDT
[#13]
There are lots of ways to detect planets. If you are an alien looking at Earth, and you want to know something about Earth besides is approximate size, mass, and orbit... well you gotta actually image the planet instead of observing the planets various gravitational effects on the local star.

Aliens could measure Earth's atmosphere if their view of the Solar System is such that the Earth would eclipse the Sun (somewhat edge on view to the solar system orbital disc). You look at the subtle light changes as the Earth passes in front of the Sun that are generated by the light passing through our atmosphere. That would tell Aliens about likely habitability, inference of life, and even industrial activity based on our atmo's chemical makeup.

If you want more than that, or don't have that edge on view, you gotta image directly. That is a tall order. Imagine trying to see Venus mid-day. You have to hold up your thumb over the sun and squint real hard, right? (Remember the need for that thumb). Same problem when looking at tiny dim planets around sun-like stars. Except now it is a 500 million times farther away (in the case of Sirius).

It is going to take a gargantuan space telescope with a second gargantuan occulter (basically a shade flying in precise formation to blot out our sun like your thumb, but not blot the Earth) to directly image a planet like Earth around a star like the Sun. Also the aliens gotta be close... maybe Sirius (which is on our doorstep, galactically speaking), but probably not the other examples.

If the aliens were really curious about Earth specifically, they could build a gravitational lens telescope using their own star as the massive lens to bend light. This would be super expensive with insane optical and computational needs and a very very very specific observing target because the telescope and its occulter satellite would have to move around the star at great distances (100s of AUs) to change its target.

If we ever discover a planet where we need actual pictures of the planets landmasses etc, a gravitational lens telescope in the Kuiper Belt is probably the only way we can do it, but it will probably cost a few or 10s of billions of dollars, and it will take over a decade from launch to first light (unless we use nuclear rockets).
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 2:46:28 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Aliens could measure Earth's atmosphere if their view of the Solar System is such that the Earth would eclipse the Sun (somewhat edge on view to the solar system orbital disc). You look at the subtle light changes as the Earth passes in front of the Sun that are generated by the light passing through our atmosphere. That would tell Aliens about likely habitability, inference of life, and even industrial activity based on our atmo's chemical makeup.
View Quote


And depending on how far away they are looking from, we might not even exist yet.  Anyone looking at Earth from outside the solar system is looking at the past.

Crazy stuff.  Thanks for the comments everyone.  
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 2:47:07 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
This.
In all these threads there are many assertions of "There must be" advanced alien civilizations who "Will have" the ability to travel FTL.
Not true.
There are no "Musts".
Only "Maybes", and a lot of uninformed speculation.
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
We are only now realizing the existential threat posed by even relatively small asteroids. Our first attempt to "deflect" one comes this week, as the Globalized trade structure that has only existed for 3/4 of a century starts unraveling and the world(and this forum) is filled with apocalyptic leaders and plotters.
Within a century we ourselves may no longer be a global civilization.
Look at the Kardashev scale and ask yourself how will humanity ever unify enough to harness the complete output of the sun?
How long would it take for a civilization to develop, finance and implement an interstellar probe, much less a fleet of Von Neumann machines that would eventually span multiple solar systems in the local area. Centuries? Millennia? With the lifespan of a sentient being only likely to be measured in a century or two? Then for the Machines to spread beyond a few hundred light years would take an epoch.
All meat ages, senesces and dies. Cultures wax and wane.
The Speed of Light is a motherfucker.
"
View Quote



Very good perspective!
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#16]
The assumption all of these scientards make is dealing with a civilization that is only a few hundred years older than ours, and they would have interest in what we are doing.  

The universe has been around a long long time.  

What about a civilization that is 1000 years older?  Or 1 million years older?  Or even 1 billion years older.  

On the Kardashev scale the earth rates a zero.  There is literally nothing a type 2 or 3 civilization would want from us.   A type 1 civilization is us in about 200 years.  A type 1 civ can move about their solar system fairly freely but cannot yet cross vast distances between star systems. Think The Expanse novels.  

A type 2 would be like Star Fleet.  A type 3 would be the Empire in Star Wars.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 3:37:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
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I disagree. We don't even know whether or not there was or is life, much less complex life, on several other potentially habitable bodies in our own solar system. We know nothing of the galaxy.

Yea we are inferring the presence of many tidally locked planets around flaring red dwarfs, so we think there must be many planets. But what do we know about sun like stars?

The answer to the Great Filter of the Fermi Paradox is not proven to be the rarity of complex or intelligent life. We don't know that! Long lived space faring, might be more detectable if we believe that there are not insurmountable technological barriers, but that is a double assumption.

Even with JWST we have only gained the most rudimentary ability to potentially detect habilitiliy or suggestions of life on a handful of mostly low likelihood planets.

We can't yet readily detect Earth-like planets in habitable zones around Earth like stars very well, so we can only infer their frequency based on our detections around M and some K dwarfs.  How many Earth massed planets around G type stars have we found in habitable zones? We know nothing.

The only thing we have found is the suggestion of planets being common and an apparent absence of obvious type II megastructures as we can conceive of them... so far.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 6:57:39 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Modern physics is wrong and it is all built on the attempts to not disprove Einstein's theories.
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There have been innumerable attempts all of which failed because the reason his theories are called theories and not hypotheses of conjectures is because not a single person has ever one time observed data which is inconsistent with them despite over 100 years of effort in that direction and the incessant yammering of ignorants to the contrary. Basically, you just don't understand the definition of a scientific theory and you don't understand any of Einstein's work. If it's wrong, tell me how the GPS in your phone manages to work. If Einstein weren't correct then it wouldn't work at all after only a couple minutes of being online.

Tell your science teachers how big a disservice they've done you.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:02:03 PM EDT
[#19]
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It's big, but it's dumb. Earth is by many orders of magnitude possessive of more complexity than anything in the observed universe. Sagan is a pontificating blowhard who appeals to small minds.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:17:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I disagree. We don't even know whether or not there was or is life, much less complex life, on several other potentially habitable bodies in our own solar system. We know nothing of the galaxy.

Yea we are inferring the presence of many tidally locked planets around flaring red dwarfs, so we think there must be many planets. But what do we know about sun like stars?

The answer to the Great Filter of the Fermi Paradox is not proven to be the rarity of complex or intelligent life. We don't know that! Long lived space faring, might be more detectable if we believe that there are not insurmountable technological barriers, but that is a double assumption.

Even with JWST we have only gained the most rudimentary ability to potentially detect habilitiliy or suggestions of life on a handful of mostly low likelihood planets.

We can't yet readily detect Earth-like planets in habitable zones around Earth like stars very well, so we can only infer their frequency based on our detections around M and some K dwarfs.  How many Earth massed planets around G type stars have we found in habitable zones? We know nothing.

The only thing we have found is the suggestion of planets being common and an apparent absence of obvious type II megastructures as we can conceive of them... so far.
View Quote



We have no idea if there is life elsewhere.  We have only one data point.

We don't know what it takes to turn Chemistry into Biology.  We don't know if it takes ten factors or a million factors.  All we do know is that it is so complex that after decades of research we can't do it in a laboratory.

Another thing we know is that everywhere we look it seems that the universe is a hostile environment to life as we know it.

We like to think there is life elsewhere for two reasons:

First is that we have all been brainwashed with Science Fiction to believe that it exist elsewhere.

We also think that since it happen here then it must be common elsewhere.  That could be a false assumption because if the universe if finite then there will unique things in it.  Life could be unique to earth.

Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:18:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:

It's big, but it's dumb. Earth is by many orders of magnitude possessive of more complexity than anything in the observed universe. Sagan is a pontificating blowhard who appeals to small minds.
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Quoted:

It's big, but it's dumb. Earth is by many orders of magnitude possessive of more complexity than anything in the observed universe. Sagan is a pontificating blowhard who appeals to small minds.


What did he say that bothers you?

Do you think there are no other planets with complex life out there, anywhere, anytime?

Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:21:43 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
Google the Drake Equation.
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LOL.

Not this again.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:24:03 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Just a random set of cartouche on the DHD
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Indeed.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:27:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Can we have your liver then?
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:28:29 PM EDT
[#25]
It’s entirely possible that:

(1) by the time anybody out there discovers us, we’ll be long gone
(2) anybody that would be interested in us was gone before we became interesting
(3) we’re so far from anyone in the humongous vastness of space, that nobody will ever find us
(4) traversing interstellar distances is an intractable problem

What is almost infinitely less probable?

That anyone that is interesting is interstellar-capable and finds us in the nano-eyeblink of town that we have been here.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:29:02 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I always find it funny when people pretend to know what is “impossible” in a universe that contains trillions upon trillions or stars and planets. Like since we can’t do it here they can’t either.
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Almost as absurd as “if I can imagine it, it must be possible and someone out there must be doing it right now.”
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:33:54 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
Google the Drake Equation.
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Google the definition of assumption.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:38:25 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm guessing pretty damn small.
I m not even sure what it would take to pinpoint our sun from across the universe.

Our galaxy isn't even that big. Pretty average.
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 7:52:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Warp speed Mr Sulu
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 8:00:08 PM EDT
[#30]
I believe there are many life forms out there. Some intelligent too but the distance issue is our protection buffer zone. Any lifeform that can beat the distance issue has advanced so fucking far they would seem like gods to us and would probably have a hands off approach.

They might intervene if we decide to exterminate ourselves. I guess if Putin starts slinging nukes we may see something.

ETA

Military Can''t Explain These UFOs at US & Russian Nuclear Weapons Sites



Link Posted: 9/23/2022 9:46:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 9/23/2022 9:55:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Watch light bend in the blower…
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 3:17:15 AM EDT
[#33]
night bump
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 5:37:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This.
In all these threads there are many assertions of "There must be" advanced alien civilizations who "Will have" the ability to travel FTL.
Not true.
There are no "Musts".
Only "Maybes", and a lot of uninformed speculation.
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
We are only now realizing the existential threat posed by even relatively small asteroids. Our first attempt to "deflect" one comes this week, as the Globalized trade structure that has only existed for 3/4 of a century starts unraveling and the world(and this forum) is filled with apocalyptic leaders and plotters.
Within a century we ourselves may no longer be a global civilization.
Look at the Kardashev scale and ask yourself how will humanity ever unify enough to harness the complete output of the sun?
How long would it take for a civilization to develop, finance and implement an interstellar probe, much less a fleet of Von Neumann machines that would eventually span multiple solar systems in the local area. Centuries? Millennia? With the lifespan of a sentient being only likely to be measured in a century or two? Then for the Machines to spread beyond a few hundred light years would take an epoch.
All meat ages, senesces and dies. Cultures wax and wane.
The Speed of Light is a motherfucker.
"
View Quote


I find it hilarious that you say that one must not make statements of absolutes and make your own statements of absolutes to dismiss them. Misinformed speculation indeed sir. Top shelf.
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 6:40:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Look at a picture of our Galaxy. Important detail is stars are closer towards the center of the galaxy. More towards the center and technology more like are own would work for interstellar travel since the distances involved are much less. Einstein theory works from the point of view of a observer never seeing a object move faster then the speed of light. If a object moves toward you faster then light it will get to you before any light that reflects off of it. Of course Einstein formula going to go all loopy your measuring the wrong details in that situation.
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 8:58:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Bunch of Astrophysicists in here still hiding in their mom's basement
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 9:06:02 AM EDT
[#37]
"From across the universe", Earth likely looks just like the exoplanets we have detected.

"A planet of x mass, orbiting a star of y mass at z distance, which appears to have an atmosphere composed of N,O2,CO2 and appears to have liquid H2O on its surface. May be habitable, but who the fuck knows; it's way the fuck over yonder..."

Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:11:12 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
"From across the universe", Earth likely looks just like the exoplanets we have detected.

"A planet of x mass, orbiting a star of y mass at z distance, which appears to have an atmosphere composed of N,O2,CO2 and appears to have liquid H2O on its surface. May be habitable, but who the fuck knows; it's way the fuck over yonder..."

View Quote


Except we have yet to find a planet that matches those parameters: similar mass, similar star, similar temps, and known atmo with those chems.
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:18:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Look at a picture of our Galaxy. Important detail is stars are closer towards the center of the galaxy. More towards the center and technology more like are own would work for interstellar travel since the distances involved are much less. Einstein theory works from the point of view of a observer never seeing a object move faster then the speed of light. If a object moves toward you faster then light it will get to you before any light that reflects off of it. Of course Einstein formula going to go all loopy your measuring the wrong details in that situation.
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OMG!  Whose galaxy?  Are you an alien?
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:27:15 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
If you go straight long enough you'll end up where you were.
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Probably not.

Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:27:38 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:34:15 AM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
!MESSAGE BEGINS

We made a mistake. That is the simple, undeniable truth of the matter, however painful it might be. The flaw was not in our Observatories, for those machines were as perfect as we could make, and they showed us only the unfiltered light of truth. The flaw was not in the Predictor, for it is a device of pure, infallible logic, turning raw data into meaningful information without the taint of emotion or bias. No, the flaw was within us, the Orchestrators of this disaster, the sentients who thought themselves beyond such failings. We are responsible.

It began a short while ago, as these things are measured, less than 66 Deeli ago, though I suspect our systems of measure will mean very little by the time anyone receives this transmission. We detected faint radio signals from a blossoming intelligence 214 Deelis outward from the Galactic Core, as photons travel. At first crude and unstructured, these leaking broadcasts quickly grew in complexity and strength, as did the messages they carried. Through our Observatories we watched a world of strife and violence, populated by a barbaric race of short-lived, fast breeding vermin. They were brutal and uncultured things which stabbed and shot and burned each other with no regard for life or purpose. Even their concepts of Art spoke of conflict and pain. They divided themselves according to some bizarre cultural patterns and set their every industry to cause of death.

They terrified us, but we were older and wiser and so very far away, so we did not fret. Then we watched them split the atom and breach the heavens within the breadth of one of their single, short generations, and we began to worry. When they began actively transmitting messages and greetings into space, we felt fear and horror. Their transmissions promised peace and camaraderie to any who were listening, but we had watched them for too long to buy into such transparent deceptions. They knew we were out here, and they were coming for us.

The Orchestrators consulted the Predictor, and the output was dire. They would multiply and grow and flood out of their home system like some uncountable tide of Devourer worms, consuming all that lay in their path. It might take 68 Deelis, but they would destroy us if left unchecked. With aching carapaces we decided to act, and sealed our fate.

The Gift of Mercy was 84 strides long with a mouth 2/4 that in diameter, filled with many 44 weights of machinery, fuel, and ballast. It would push itself up to 2/8th of light speed with its onboard fuel, and then begin to consume interstellar Primary Element 2/2 to feed its unlimited acceleration. It would be traveling at nearly light speed when it hit. They would never see it coming. Its launch was a day of mourning, celebration, and reflection. The horror of the act we had committed weighted heavily upon us all; the necessity of our crime did little to comfort us.

The Gift had barely cleared the outer cometary halo when the mistake was realized, but it was too late. The Gift could not be caught, could not be recalled or diverted from its path. The architects and work crews, horrified at the awful power of the thing upon which they labored, had quietly self-terminated in droves, walking unshielded into radiation zones, neglecting proper null pressure safety or simply ceasing their nutrient consumption until their metabolic functions stopped. The appalling cost in lives had forced the Orchestrators to streamline the Gift’s design and construction. There had been no time for the design or implementation of anything beyond the simple, massive engines and the stabilizing systems. We could only watch in shame and horror as the light of genocide faded into infrared against the distant void.

They grew, and they changed, in a handful of lifetimes they abolished war, abandoned their violent tendencies and turned themselves to the grand purposes of life and Art. We watched them remake first themselves, and then their world. Their frail, soft bodies gave way to gleaming metals and plastics, they unified their people through an omnipresent communications grid and produced Art of such power and emotion, the likes of which the Galaxy has never seen before. Or again, because of us.

They converted their home world into a paradise (by their standards) and many 106s of them poured out into the surrounding system with a rapidity and vigor that we could only envy. With bodies built to survive every environment from the day lit surface of their innermost world, to the atmosphere of their largest gas giant and the cold void in-between, they set out to sculpt their system into something beautiful. At first we thought them simple miners, stripping the rocky planets and moons for vital resources, but then we began to see the purpose to their constructions, the artworks carved into every surface, and traced across the system in glittering lights and dancing fusion trails. And still, our terrible Gift approached.

They had less than 22 Deeli to see it, following so closely on the tail of its own light. In that time, oh so brief even by their fleeting lives, more than 1010 sentients prepared for death. Lovers exchanged last words, separated by worlds and the tyranny of light speed. Their planetside engineers worked frantically to build sufficient transmission infrastructure to upload the countless masses with the necessary neural modifications, while those above dumped lifetimes of music and literature from their databanks to make room for passengers. Those lacking the required hardware or the time to acquire it consigned themselves to death, lashed out in fear and pain, or simply went about their lives as best they could under the circumstances.

The Gift arrived suddenly, the light of its impact visible in our skies, shining bright and cruel even to the unaugmented ocular receptor. We watched and we wept for our victims, dead so many Deelis before the light of their doom had even reached us. Many 64s of those who had been directly or even tangentially involved in the creation of the Gift sealed their spiracles with paste as a final penance for the small roles they had played in this atrocity. The light dimmed, the dust cleared, and our Observatories refocused upon the place where their shining blue world had once hung in the void, and found only dust and the pale gleam of an orphaned moon, wrapped in a thin, burning wisp of atmosphere that had once belonged to its parent.

Radiation and relativistic shrapnel had wiped out much of the inner system, and continent sized chunks of molten rock carried screaming ghosts outward at interstellar escape velocities, damned to wander the great void for an eternity. The damage was apocalyptic, but not complete, from the shadows of the outer worlds, tiny points of light emerged, thousands of fusion trails of single ships and world ships and everything in between, many 106s of survivors in flesh and steel and memory banks, ready to rebuild. For a few moments we felt relief, even joy, and we were filled with the hope that their culture and Art would survive the terrible blow we had dealt them. Then came the message, tightly focused at our star, transmitted simultaneously by hundreds of their ships.

“We know you are out there, and we are coming for you.”

!MESSAGE ENDS
43
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OMG! Thank you!
I’ve been trying to find this for many years but I could never remember enough detail to successfully search for it.
Your post made me happy today! ??
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:35:20 AM EDT
[#43]
All of a sudden a God man seems plausible
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 11:43:05 AM EDT
[#44]
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I think you missed the point.  We are not ants.  We are able to understand that life can exist, or could have existed, or may exist at some point in TIME.

The problem is two fold.  Existing at the same time, and covering the distance.  We have not existed long enough cross paths with another life form.  
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We will most likely be long gone before someone has time to notice we even existed.   We are alone.

Nothing but swamp gas and weather balloons.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmKkQsD0/1503605069-20130115-radio-broadcasts-2.jpg


I imagine the ants sitting in a giant sprawling underground complex. Content with themselves and their obviously grandiose achievements.  

Inside the anthill they are debating if there are ants somewhere else across vast distances. They all conclude no. It would be impossible for an ant to make it anywhere but just a tiny bit farther than they've been able to expand to.

Since they don't all see the other ants coming by their hill it's proof they are alone.

Imagine trying to explain to those idiot ants that there's a place called Australia, and it has ants. And the Earth is a spheroid. And there are humans living here too and they are advanced beyond recognition. They can put ants on board an airplane and take them to Australia if they chose but they don't give a fuck mostly so they don't. And those humans even know that the pin points of light in the sky are other planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies full of the same.

The stupid little ants would just be like "I don boliv et."


You are here.


I think you missed the point.  We are not ants.  We are able to understand that life can exist, or could have existed, or may exist at some point in TIME.

The problem is two fold.  Existing at the same time, and covering the distance.  We have not existed long enough cross paths with another life form.  


Your brain as mighty as it may be is fully capable of being incapable of understanding the totality of existence.

Do you have any real understanding of concepts of 5 (or higher) dimensions and the possibilities?

ANY workaround for speed of light limits to travel makes the conundrum of simultaneous existence, travel and even time itself moot.

You got it all figured out though. I can't tell you anything you don't already know.
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 12:03:08 PM EDT
[#45]
actually, I believe that our universe is just a bit of energy in the electron cloud of an atom.
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 12:12:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Your brain as mighty as it may be is fully capable of being incapable of understanding the totality of existence.

Do you have any real understanding of concepts of 5 (or higher) dimensions and the possibilities?

ANY workaround for speed of light limits to travel makes the conundrum of simultaneous existence, travel and even time itself moot.

You got it all figured out though. I can't tell you anything you don't already know.
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
We will most likely be long gone before someone has time to notice we even existed.   We are alone.

Nothing but swamp gas and weather balloons.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmKkQsD0/1503605069-20130115-radio-broadcasts-2.jpg


I imagine the ants sitting in a giant sprawling underground complex. Content with themselves and their obviously grandiose achievements.  

Inside the anthill they are debating if there are ants somewhere else across vast distances. They all conclude no. It would be impossible for an ant to make it anywhere but just a tiny bit farther than they've been able to expand to.

Since they don't all see the other ants coming by their hill it's proof they are alone.

Imagine trying to explain to those idiot ants that there's a place called Australia, and it has ants. And the Earth is a spheroid. And there are humans living here too and they are advanced beyond recognition. They can put ants on board an airplane and take them to Australia if they chose but they don't give a fuck mostly so they don't. And those humans even know that the pin points of light in the sky are other planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies full of the same.

The stupid little ants would just be like "I don boliv et."


You are here.


I think you missed the point.  We are not ants.  We are able to understand that life can exist, or could have existed, or may exist at some point in TIME.

The problem is two fold.  Existing at the same time, and covering the distance.  We have not existed long enough cross paths with another life form.  


Your brain as mighty as it may be is fully capable of being incapable of understanding the totality of existence.

Do you have any real understanding of concepts of 5 (or higher) dimensions and the possibilities?

ANY workaround for speed of light limits to travel makes the conundrum of simultaneous existence, travel and even time itself moot.

You got it all figured out though. I can't tell you anything you don't already know.


Why so snarky?  Nothing I said is wrong, nothing you said was wrong.

Yet both your post end with snarky comments.  Thanks for posting.   Have a wonderful weekend!  
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 12:12:47 PM EDT
[#47]
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I find it hilarious that you say that one must not make statements of absolutes and make your own statements of absolutes to dismiss them. Misinformed speculation indeed sir. Top shelf.
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This.
In all these threads there are many assertions of "There must be" advanced alien civilizations who "Will have" the ability to travel FTL.
Not true.
There are no "Musts".
Only "Maybes", and a lot of uninformed speculation.
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
We are only now realizing the existential threat posed by even relatively small asteroids. Our first attempt to "deflect" one comes this week, as the Globalized trade structure that has only existed for 3/4 of a century starts unraveling and the world(and this forum) is filled with apocalyptic leaders and plotters.
Within a century we ourselves may no longer be a global civilization.
Look at the Kardashev scale and ask yourself how will humanity ever unify enough to harness the complete output of the sun?
How long would it take for a civilization to develop, finance and implement an interstellar probe, much less a fleet of Von Neumann machines that would eventually span multiple solar systems in the local area. Centuries? Millennia? With the lifespan of a sentient being only likely to be measured in a century or two? Then for the Machines to spread beyond a few hundred light years would take an epoch.
All meat ages, senesces and dies. Cultures wax and wane.
The Speed of Light is a motherfucker.
"


I find it hilarious that you say that one must not make statements of absolutes and make your own statements of absolutes to dismiss them. Misinformed speculation indeed sir. Top shelf.
Actually mine are stated as likelihoods based on the Principle of Parsimony, AKA Occam's Razor.
My POV is simply based on what we understand about mass and energy via the century old, constantly challenged and validated Theory of Relativity and observational data from the last 50 years of astronomy.
These indicate that interstellar travel would be a millennial long effort by a very advanced technical civilization that was unified beyond Human conception for generational efforts.
That outcome is constrained by our biological understanding of evolution, that indicates upper limits for a biological organism's lifespan in an environment of background radiation.
Astronomy shows that vast swathes of a galaxy are brutally inimical to living organisms and even manufactured technology, as they are filled with ferocious radiation, micro meteors and hopeless gravity wells.
Sci-fi space travel is almost all based on hand waving explanations of technological advances that imply mastery of Fundamental forces of the universe: the ability to control gravity, eliminate momentum, deflect all radiation and get around the fact that at the speed of light, the lightest particle will have infinite mass(which is why light, being massless sets the speed limit). All this...done cheaply enough to send out for pure science research and exploration, then colonization.

As we understand the universe now(imperfectly to be sure...but rather consistently) these technologies are past the "speculation" realm and firmly into "fantasy".
Also note that when/if Einstein's theory are supplanted by a deeper understanding it's not likely he'll be shown to be wrong...just as Einstein did not show Newton to wrong, he deepened and extended our understanding from local effects to interstellar ones.






Link Posted: 9/24/2022 1:48:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Anyone who observes our solar system would take one look at it and say that it's broke dick. We have this 4th planet that looks like the atmosphere was stipped away and the surface is covered with plasma burns. We have an asteriod belt that used to be a planet, and then, we inexplicably have this gas giant out there that doesn't belong anywhere that a normal planet would be, and the ones beyond it have been pushed to the outer reaches of the system.  

To a casual observer, Jupiter looks like a failed star that crashed into our system and gave off a huge cloud of water vapor as it expired. Venus flipped on it's own axis and is rotating backwards in flames. For some odd reason, the thrid planet, terra, seems to have survived the original cataclysm only to be overloaded and intent on it's own self destruction.

The lizard people are still pissed we showed up here, and the ship that dropped us off, and promised they would return, was probably destroyed in the cataclysm along with whatever might be left of our once home planet.

Or, maybe something else. Who knows?

Link Posted: 9/24/2022 2:02:58 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:
Look at a picture of our Galaxy. Important detail is stars are closer towards the center of the galaxy. More towards the center and technology more like are own would work for interstellar travel since the distances involved are much less. Einstein theory works from the point of view of a observer never seeing a object move faster then the speed of light. If a object moves toward you faster then light it will get to you before any light that reflects off of it. Of course Einstein formula going to go all loopy your measuring the wrong details in that situation.
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There are stars moving away from us at faster than the speed of light. It's ok and doesn't violate relativity because space is expanding. Stuff within the Hubble sphere is not moving away faster than the speed of light. stuff outside the Hubble sphere is. Very weird.
Link Posted: 9/24/2022 2:32:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This.
In all these threads there are many assertions of "There must be" advanced alien civilizations who "Will have" the ability to travel FTL.
Not true.
There are no "Musts".
Only "Maybes", and a lot of uninformed speculation.
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
We are only now realizing the existential threat posed by even relatively small asteroids. Our first attempt to "deflect" one comes this week, as the Globalized trade structure that has only existed for 3/4 of a century starts unraveling and the world(and this forum) is filled with apocalyptic leaders and plotters.
Within a century we ourselves may no longer be a global civilization.
Look at the Kardashev scale and ask yourself how will humanity ever unify enough to harness the complete output of the sun?
How long would it take for a civilization to develop, finance and implement an interstellar probe, much less a fleet of Von Neumann machines that would eventually span multiple solar systems in the local area. Centuries? Millennia? With the lifespan of a sentient being only likely to be measured in a century or two? Then for the Machines to spread beyond a few hundred light years would take an epoch.
All meat ages, senesces and dies. Cultures wax and wane.
The Speed of Light is a motherfucker.
"
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If the sun was as big as as a golf ball the nearest star would be about 760 miles away.  

To propel a shuttle sized space ship 1/3rd the speed of light would take all the human energy production on earth for three years.

We have been brainwashed by 100 years of science fiction to think we can go star trekking across the universe but it ain't gonna happen.
This.
In all these threads there are many assertions of "There must be" advanced alien civilizations who "Will have" the ability to travel FTL.
Not true.
There are no "Musts".
Only "Maybes", and a lot of uninformed speculation.
The simplest and most likely outcome is that complex life is rare, intelligent life is orders of magnitude more rare, and that very long lived space faring civilizations rarest of all.
We are only now realizing the existential threat posed by even relatively small asteroids. Our first attempt to "deflect" one comes this week, as the Globalized trade structure that has only existed for 3/4 of a century starts unraveling and the world(and this forum) is filled with apocalyptic leaders and plotters.
Within a century we ourselves may no longer be a global civilization.
Look at the Kardashev scale and ask yourself how will humanity ever unify enough to harness the complete output of the sun?
How long would it take for a civilization to develop, finance and implement an interstellar probe, much less a fleet of Von Neumann machines that would eventually span multiple solar systems in the local area. Centuries? Millennia? With the lifespan of a sentient being only likely to be measured in a century or two? Then for the Machines to spread beyond a few hundred light years would take an epoch.
All meat ages, senesces and dies. Cultures wax and wane.
The Speed of Light is a motherfucker.
"
These. Remember the picture on 1st page showing how far radio transmissions have traveled since the first broadcast (approx 200 light years)?  Nowhere even on the scale of our own galaxy. Now let's put that into scale

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