It might if it was correct, which it isn't.  Precious metal bulls screamed "conspiracy" for decades when their assets didn't perform.  But if this all-powerful cartel was able to keep the price of metals down, why aren't they doing it now?



Oh, and by the way, that site also has this:

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/911lies.html



Can you say TROOTHER?

Didn't catch this the first-time.
Why can't the dollar crash? I do agree that we will bring down everyone else if we fail.

Maybe I've got it wrong.
From my chair, the two TARPs, Cap and Trade, the massive public Medical bill, and now the "Jobs" (spendulous II) bill will bankrupt this country. Who will bail us out? The Chinese? They want their money back. Soon, our rating will fall from AAA and then the money will get real expensive.
I did not vote for any of this crap. Do you?

Please convince me that I am wrong
Tell me how all of this massive spending will help

Seems like my wife and I are only a handful who yell at the TV

Because there is more to the dollar than simple economics.  The dollar is more geopolitics than currency.  



One of the reasons we "printed" upwards of $2T is so that we devalued the treasuries held by other nations to keep them from selling them (knowing they would get ~$0.50 on the dollar for their investment).  I agree that we are massively over-leveraged.  Should we fail?  Yes... will we?  Nope.  I think there will be a re-adjustment, but the dollar will survive - probably as the world's singular currency.  THAT is their endgame.  



On this we agree.



The massive spending will not help, but neither will it hurt the dollar.  The last year has been the setup to the endgame where the dollar takes the stage as the world's singular currency.  In order to do that, we have to use our influence on foreign markets to crash their currencies without quite crashing our own.



I lost my voice doing that, so, I got rid of the TV.  

I won't go to the grocery store with gold.  I will sell one ounce of gold for $10,000 of paper money and take that to the grocery store to buy my onions.

I would rather own an oz of gold I paid $1000 for than own that $1000 and only be able to purchase $100 worth of groceries with it.

So they're wrong about 911 automatically assumes they're wrong about gold and silver?

I could post many more links explaining even better about the prices being manipulated if you'd like.

Please, post all sorts of links claiming a suuper sekrit conspiracy to manipulate the price of gold and silver.  Just because it's on the interweb, doesn't mean it's true.

And who is going to give you $10k of paper money for 1 ounce of gold? I certainly wouldn't.  Better question... who here HAS $10k of actual paper money?  That's what I thought.  I think your plan has flaws.

James Talmage Stevens (the Family Preparedness Guide guy) interviewed someone who was selling precious metals - especially gold - on his podcast.  PM guy is, of course, recommending buying gold for TEOTWAWKI.



At one point, Stevens asks the question: so, how would you use gold in this situation?

PM guy says, "I don't know."








Unfortunately, I'm not kidding.  (October 24th show - he was interviewing Patrick Gorman of "Hard Money Watch.")

Anyway ––- of all the commodities, gold and silver are the only ones that haven't been adjusted for inflation.

Why do you think that is?

Because they are primarily investment vehicles more so than commodities like wheat, non-precious metals, energy sources, etc.





Gold and silver did nothing for two decades because the prices crashed, burning a lot of investors.  The stock market was giving us outstanding returns.  Inflation was low (and gold/silver was viewed primarily as a way to hedge against hyperinflation, not 2-3% inflation.)  



So most rational investors decided to invest in something that was giving them 10% return/year and was easily to buy/sell over something giving them 0%, which required storage, was somewhat harder to buy/sell, and had a much larger spread.  Duh.



Now the dynamic is changing, people aren't sure of the financial stability of the banks, in some cases the government, people are worried about high inflation again, so what goes up?  Gold and silver.  



It's called the free market.

The free market for gold/silver is broken.

Even though you're a PM bear, you'd do yourself a favor by watching these two videos.

Disclaimer: These two videos was created by a company that sells gold and silver. You're probably going to say to yourself –– "OMG!! They're only interest is selling their products!!1!"

When you're ready to have an open mind:

click here

and here

How is the free market "broken"?  Oh, that's right, the people selling you gold and silver are telling you it is, right.  (And they are also expensive compared to APMEX.  So they are soaking you too.)



If these guys really thought that the price of gold and silver were artificially low, they wouldn't be setting up websites.  They'd be buying the hell out of gold and silver.

Wow.

First: Just because someone is selling a certain product, doesn't mean they're "just trying to sell you their crap". Read my disclaimer above. Ever thought that they're selling gold and silver because that's what their expertise is in?

Second: I've never bought from GoldSilver.com –– so I'm not being "soaked". Yes, APMEX is the place to buy online. I have read Mike Maloney's book, and have realized he's one the smartest individuals when it comes to the history of money, PM's and the potential for PM's to increase and why they will increase. I recommend his book to even the most bearish on gold and silver because they'll do an about-face after reading it.

Third: Your last comment "If these guys really thought that the price of gold and silver were artificially low, they wouldn't be setting up websites.  They'd be buying the hell out of gold and silver."....  is so non-thought provoking and non-original, I chuckled. If you really, really think about this one, you'll figure it out on your own.

They're selling it to you because they're trying to make money.  And plugging the "only gold is real money, it can never go down, it's a new paradigm" line to you, just like real estate brokers, stock brokers, etc.  



You need to stop listening to people trying to sell you the product and think for yourself.  







Oh brother, one of Kiyosaki's men?  Kiyosaki is a fraud.  I wouldn't trust anyone associated with that buffoon.



Again - here is a guy trying to sell you a product, which will generate him a nice profit margin.  Why should you trust anything he says?



There are smarter people out there who know about the history of money and gold.  Try Peter Bernstein, for instance.  Or the speakers at the Cato Monetary Conference who have these weird things called PhDs.  




Say I have a gold coin.  I'm telling you "the value of this gold coin is going to double by next year."  So - why in God's name would I want to sell it to you?  I'd be better off keeping it and selling it next year.  I'd be even better off getting all the loans I could, buying gold while it was "cheap", and then selling it next year and making a very tidy profit.



Investors do this all the time.



You believe gold is going up.  Are you selling your coins?  



Put down the gold kool-aid, son.

So you couldn't figure out my third point on your own??

This is so basic I shouldn't have to explain... here goes anyway because I'm such a nice guy.

PM dealers like Mike Maloney and others that present a strong case that silver and gold are going to exponentially increase in price have probably stored/stock-piled scores or even hundreds of oz of gold and thousands of oz of silver.

Since they are dealers, they continue to get inventory week after week.

At some point you can only save so much.

They now have the luxury of selling their NEW inventory of PM's for a profit.

This means not only do they have a 'savings' of gold and silver, they can continue to make money in their trade.

[Are you with me thus far?]

Let's use a convenience store owner as an example. With your logic, since the owner of the gas station/convenience store wants to sell you gas, food, oil for your car, etc.–– they must be scamming you and you shouldn't trust them because they're only trying to make a profit, and the products they sell must all be fraud !

Also by your "logic", they shouldn't be selling any of these items because they're so essential. They should be hoarding all of their products for themselves!

So back to our original argument, it's public record that there is PM price manipulation read about it here.

I don't expect you to read it because of a rigid mindset but someone who is tracking this thread will.

LOL.  Whatever, guy.  You keep drinking the Kool-Aid, don't blame me when you lose your shirt when the bubble collapses, as all bubbles have and will.

It's all good.

Still waiting for an answer to this question...

You mean "worthless fiat money"?

Just want to hear what person he thinks is going to hand him $10k for an ounce of gold.  Hell, I won't even hand over $1k for an ounce.

Clearly you are in with the Federal Reserve, the Gnomes of Zurich, the Bavarian Illuminati, and the Sultans of Swing.

Clearly..

So grab your ammo stockpile and little red wagon, head over to the community marketplace, and trade a few bullets for a couple cans of beans. All kinds of peasants there, swapping everything for everything, you'll fit right in.

I'll try to stop by on my way home from buying the grocery store and the county it sits in from the neighboring warlord...for real money.

Aside from internet kewl points, what do I get for a picture of 10k stacks of US currency, sitting atop a muddy 6721? Serious, bro, you want to ask personal questions about people's finances, you ought to be willing to put up something of value yourself. What you got to trade?

Sorry, not interested in bricks of .22 LR, or a stash of toilet paper, I need to see some real value to make a deal worth my time. How much real ammo you got?

Yep, you are a tool.    I'm not sure what kind of collapse you think you're preparing for, but you might want to take a look at Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and so forth... then get back to me about currency and things used in trade by warlords.  You also probably wouldn't last 10 seconds in a negotiation with a real "warlord..."  They didn't get where they are by posting on the internet.  



It was a rhetorical question.  I would sincerely hope that anyone with that kind of money wouldn't be posting about it on the internet - you, apparently, aren't that smart... it would probably take me a day of reading your posts to figure out who you really are.  If I can do it - so can a bad guy.  You might have $10k in cash - most do not... would you trade it for an ounce of gold?  Like I said, I won't even trade $1k of cash for an ounce of gold.  You like to come into these threads and brag about how rich you are - or how rich you are getting.  I am going to laugh my ass off when the .gov decides to take your gold - AGAIN.  I'm sure you'll present us with all manner of bravado suggesting that the 6721 is for that... but that ain't the truth - and deep down, you know it.    

Why is your 6721 muddy?  I wouldn't brag about NOT cleaning mud off of a gun on a gun forum.  



Enough.  If the part in blue were true, you would not be buying gold right now.  Nope, you're the kind of person who would have bought .com stock in the 90's or tried to flip a house in ~2005.  This is no different.  It's just a different bandwagon that caught your eye.  

When your gold runs out (and it will because you won't get nearly what you think you will for it - or it will be taken from you by force by one of those warlords you think you'll be doing business with), what are YOU going to have left?  Do you have the skill to make things with your hands and barter with we peasants?  In the kind of collapse where the dollar disappears into wheelbarrows, you're going to need that kind of skill more than you will your stash of gold.  Again... look at various other nations that have collapsed completely or are very nearly in anarchy.  

*shrug* if you think it'll work out for you, keep doing what you're doing - I really don't care.  The dollar is not going away anytime soon.  Besides, I never said I DIDN'T have any gold - I just am not buying it at this outrageous price.  I only buy things I don't mind being stuck with if I'm wrong.  Little gold coins - ha!  get real.  You really can't swim in them like Scrooge McDuck.  Now... quality jewelry (that I get at an outrageously good deal) for the wife?  Maybe.  

He probably threw it down a driveway

Interesting conversation you guys got going.
Just wanted to point out, definitely not any kind of threat, but it only takes one of those 22 rounds to separate you from all your gold...
I'm a PM sceptic. I look at it this way:
Where am I investing my riches? In things with real value: My faith, anything that will provide for my family's well-being and defense, anything that increases my ability to provide for that family (skills, education, etc...).
Can an argument be made that PM's can do all of that. Mostly, especially in the current economic model.
But I am concerned about the NEXT economic model too.

Remember when lowers and AR's were so expensive last year? Where are they now, some below pre-election prices?
Why did the price go up? Increased demand limited supply. People were worried about future availability (should still be, but that's another thread...)
Why are they less expensive now? Demand has slacked. Due to saturation (units sold to people who want them) and economic pressures, etc...
Now let's look at gold.
Why is gold increasing in value? Is/will there be less supply? Nope, they have plenty and are mining more all the time.  There is increased demand though. Why this increased demand? SPECULATION.

What happens to speculative commodities? They eventually crash. Think of the real estate boom/bust. Same thing is very likely to happen to gold IMHO.
Admit it, gold has very little intrinsic value outside of it's place as an investment tool. You can shelter your family in real estate, you can eat those pork bellies.
Both those commodities that have true intrinsic value have been speculated up and come back down, how is gold going to magically avoid that cycle? I can't see it.

Where can gold be most useful? Think in historic terms. Jews and other persecuted peoples kept much of their wealth in things other than coin of the realm because they didn't know when the next pogrom might come and they'd have to bug out to the next country where the current coin was worthless.
It was a barterable escape tool. Still may be good for that IF you can get out and there is another country that is stable. But don't expect to get the speculative prices for it. Refugees are not on the winning side of the barter relationship.

Again, do what you are lead to do. It is your money to spend after all. Just make sure whatever you do is based on sound economic principle. Speculation has shown itself to be a loser every time.

Well, I am not speculating. I don't have the inclination, nor the resources to get play the market. But if I did, I would.

I do however, watch the news, listen to Talk Radio, and occasionally watch some entertainment on TV. From my perspective, our Country is headed in the wrong direction.
Can anyone on this thread support what the elected officials are doing? _______.  
Politics aside, can anyone tell me that the massive printing of dollars is good? _________.
I will ask again, Is the endless printing of money good for the dollar, and/or the country? ____________.
Too many dollars chasing too few goods equals?____________.

As the OP asks, which currency will be safe?

It has been agreed that the world is deeply intertwined with the US. Also, the US is not the only country printing money. Given that, if the dollar gets devalued, or may I say, collapses, then wouldn't other currencies follow?_________.

Some say that gold is in a bubble. Is it because too many are in and no where to go? ________.
If the answer is yes, then wouldn't the dollar be in a bubble also?__________.
Why are central banks exchanging dollars for other currencies and accumulating gold? __________.

History has proven that gold has never been worth zero. It has always been used in some form of barter. In a SHTF scenario - whether it be the monetary collapse of the world, nuclear
holocaust, or my wife taking everything including the grass, some stash of PMs should have a better chance of surviving. One must remember, that all electronic communication can fail. When there is a run on the banks, how will one be able to withdraw physical money? Even if there are no communications, who's going to allow you to withdraw your own money? Cash in your stocks? Hopefully, none of the sky is falling scenarios come into play. I hope.

Some are stockpiling food for when it hits the fan. We got whacked by Hurricane Iniki - a Cat-V hurricane which wasted most of us. I am not only stocking the shelves for such a situation, but also because when inflation hits, and we will have the food at yesterday's prices. Oh, by the way, no electricity, no gas, no banks, rotten food, and talk about price gouging (hyperinflation). It's a good thing that we had (past-tense) a close-knit society.

I am trying to cover the bases for my family, protect the homestead, maximize our savings, and retirement efforts. (again) I have heard that  there is talk of shifting retirement accounts into the General Fund for raiding just like Social Security. Can anyone guarantee that this is speculation and/or that it won't happen? ________________.

Until then, the ol' nest egg will contain the essentials that most of us value. PMs are part of a well balanced portfolio. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
I love this country and we need to take her back before it's too late.

yeah, somewhere I vaguely recall pilots during WWII would carry gold coins or rings for barter, bribery, escape?
Someone else may have  better history than I.

I've been trying to track this down for a while.  Many sites that sell gold claim that pilots carried them - everything from WW1 French pilots carrying them for good luck, to American pilots during the First Gulf War carrying Sovereigns (!).  If someone can find a primary source, I'd love to hear about it.

All curriencies are fake.  So, if it gets bad enough that the dollar collapses, everything else, whether pegged directly to the dollar or not, goes with it.  And when everything falls, where will you want your money?  In the U.S.  So in my studied opinion, there is not alternative to holding money in the U.S., because we will be the only place left to be if there is a collapse.  The other world can take advantage of our being sick and a little slow, but they cannot survive if we die.

In the end:
We are free, they are not.
We have lots of good farmland and fresh, they do not.
We have lots of rivers, freeways and ports, they do not.
We are not filled with tribal and ethnic hatred, they are.

Sure, you can find a few countries that are the exception to these points (Canada maybe), but there are not many, and they are small, and they are, in the end, insignificant.

So feel blessed, you live in the U.S. of A.  So your only option is to fight to make America better.

Very very true.

The only currency that has never been disowned by the issuing government would be a good start.

Try to spend Marks, Lira, or Francs.