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Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:39:57 AM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Monster Garage, with that POS Jesse james?
He'll be broke in five years.




didn't he marry someone recently?



Sandra Bullock
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:47:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Some of you guys haven't seen American Chopper? Let me break it down for you:

"Well today Duke Shortdick, the President of XYZ Corporation, needs his ego stroked and a tax write off. So, we've been contracted to design a hard core chopper, complete with company logos plastered all over the thing. Yesterday, we spent the day at XYZ Corporation's manufacturing facility where we fucked off for a day, while irritating the employees who actually work for a living. I got lot of inspiration while I was there. I now know what their company colors are and what their logo looks like.

This will be a true custom themed bike. We're going to craft this one of a kind custom by thumbing through the Custom Chrome catalog and ordering a frame and some fenders. We're going to spend 5 hours and cut out a section of rear fender and weld it back together for a custom look, even though it looks just like the other fender on page 356 when finished. Next, we're gonna order up a motor and tranny from RevTech already assembled and ready to bolt in. Then, we're gonna bend a bunch of roundbar and weld it all over the place. Vinnie is gonna carve some trinkets on the waterjet, and we're going to farm out the paint. No one is as innovative as us.

Since we never really understood planning and scheduling, we're going to build this last minute project in 2 weeks. Our vendors will be expected to bend over backwards for us. If they do, we won't mention who they are. If they don't meet our unrealistic demands, we'll cuss them on national television. I really hate these tight deadlines, but I hate taking steps to correct the problems that cause them even more. Besides, this makes for better TV."


That's about every show, in a nutshell. Oh, and there's yelling and various comments about "My size 12 shoe up your ass".
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:55:42 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
Some of you guys haven't seen American Chopper? Let me break it down for you:

"Well today Duke Shortdick, the President of XYZ Corporation, needs his ego stroked and a tax write off. So, we've been contracted to design a hard core chopper, complete with company logos plastered all over the thing. Yesterday, we spent the day at XYZ Corporation's manufacturing facility where we fucked off for a day, while irritating the employees who actually work for a living. I got lot of inspiration while I was there. I now know what their company colors are and what their logo looks like.

This will be a true custom themed bike. We're going to craft this one of a kind custom by thumbing through the Custom Chrome catalog and ordering a frame and some fenders. We're going to spend 5 hours and cut out a section of rear fender and weld it back together for a custom look, even though it looks just like the other fender on page 356 when finished. Next, we're gonna order up a motor and tranny from RevTech already assembled and ready to bolt in. Mikey will do something mildly amusing.Then, we're gonna bend a bunch of roundbar and weld it all over the place. Vinnie is gonna carve some trinkets on the waterjet, and we're going to farm out the paint. No one is as innovative as us.

Since we never really understood planning and scheduling, we're going to build this last minute project in 2 weeks. Our vendors will be expected to bend over backwards for us. If they do, we won't mention who they are. If they don't meet our unrealistic demands, we'll cuss them on national television. I really hate these tight deadlines, but I hate taking steps to correct the problems that cause them even more. Besides, this makes for better TV."


That's about every show, in a nutshell. Oh, and there's yelling and various comments about "My size 12 shoe up your ass".



ya left out somethin'
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:09:42 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
What kind of fool has his current AND ex-wife working in the same place?

I mean, WTF man?



My guess is that she got some % of the buisness in the divorce and he can't get rid of her without paying big $$ to buy her part.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:16:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Overhauling was the only show I enjoyed watching - Foose did some pretty cool stuff with those rebuilds ...

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:29:48 AM EDT
[#6]
I find myself watching the programs mention above. My take, Boyd has hurt his business by showing all the world how quick his cars are slapped together and the employee hate for building them.

OCC, the production bikes are overpriced and not that cool unless you want the OCC engraved on the side covers. Paul Jr, I like him, his dad doesnt have a clue but he a rich bastard so he done something right. Vinnie and Rick are the metal talents of the show and do good work. Mikey, it a good thing he semi funny, biggest lazy ass Ive seen.

Monster garage, JJames was a hard working SOB, but with his current fame, no longer has to sweat like he use too. Cant understand HOW a convictive felon can have the array of weapons that he has fame really can buy back anything
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:42:29 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
Some of you guys haven't seen American Chopper? Let me break it down for you:



Haha, that was great.    Don't forget the parts where:

1.  They are "so far behind schedule" but they take time out to go golfing, in a balloon ride, skeet shooting or play dodgeball.  If you're behind schedule, why are you playing dodgeball?  

2.  Paul Sr. yells at everyone to clean up the shop.  It happens at least once a show.



Our vendors will be expected to bend over backwards for us. If they do, we won't mention who they are. If they don't meet our unrealistic demands, we'll cuss them on national television. "



The OCC idiots really tick me off when they do this.   It's never their fault that one of their vendors provided the wrong part.  

"The frame they sent us for the Gillette bike is too small; it was supposed to be a 1" frame.  Now we can't do anything on the bike because they screwed up the frame."  (whose job is it to tell the frame builder what size to use???  Hmmm???)

"The front end on the Gillette bike is too short."  (see above)

"The gas tank for the I, Robot bike is too short."  (see above)

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:49:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Having been into street rods for many years, I knew Boyd was a mixed bag.....but watching how he operates I would never do business with him. I dont care for his boydster "look" anyhow.

I watch "Trucks", because it is about building, Stacey manages to show how and why things are done without making the show about himself.


NH

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:22:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Trucks kicks ass, he shows quite a lot of unique and inspirational stuff.

The Sgt Rock truck with it's massive Rockwell axles is going to be awesome, basically a rough and ready to go nearly monster truck.      The thing is going to be more awesome than the original Bigfoot.   The damn tires on the Sgt Rock truck are effing huge, Stacey's choice of axle shows his sort of mentality and knows he needs something with enough meat to both turn and stop those massive tires.    Hydraulic steering to boot.

Good fucking luck trying to high center that Sgt Rock truck, it looks like it's approach angle is gonna be like 70 degrees on the front but I'm not sure what is gonna be done with the front bumper.


The Copperhead build was my all time favorite Trucks episode, awesome truck.     Been watching it for about as long as it has been on TV and my only complaint is that it can take a LONG time before you see projects come together because they really take their time to build them, I think it took over a year for Copperhead and the Bronco to come together.


I also kinda like the new Extreme 4x4 because they have done SO much within only 5-6 episodes, built an offroad Jeep from the ground up, have revived a Jeep, are currently building a baja truck on an old Ford Ranger and are quite a ways into it, and they have a Suburban tow project coming together with a Banks twin turbo GM Diesel.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:00:58 AM EDT
[#10]
trucks is the only decent show.

american chopper = ricer bikes with same frame/engine combo.
coddington - asshole superiority complex, shitty work-ethic, cookie-cutting hot rods

a reality show with forced performance in mckinney, tx or the martin brothers would be millions of  times more entertaining. and you would probably learn a thing or 2.

i think i'll stick to top gear, 5th gear, and adult swim.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:46:04 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
Some of you guys haven't seen American Chopper? Let me break it down for you:

"Well today Duke Shortdick, the President of XYZ Corporation, needs his ego stroked and a tax write off. So, we've been contracted to design a hard core chopper, complete with company logos plastered all over the thing. Yesterday, we spent the day at XYZ Corporation's manufacturing facility where we fucked off for a day, while irritating the employees who actually work for a living. I got lot of inspiration while I was there. I now know what their company colors are and what their logo looks like.

This will be a true custom themed bike. We're going to craft this one of a kind custom by thumbing through the Custom Chrome catalog and ordering a frame and some fenders. We're going to spend 5 hours and cut out a section of rear fender and weld it back together for a custom look, even though it looks just like the other fender on page 356 when finished. Next, we're gonna order up a motor and tranny from RevTech already assembled and ready to bolt in. Then, we're gonna bend a bunch of roundbar and weld it all over the place. Vinnie is gonna carve some trinkets on the waterjet, and we're going to farm out the paint. No one is as innovative as us.

Since we never really understood planning and scheduling, we're going to build this last minute project in 2 weeks. Our vendors will be expected to bend over backwards for us. If they do, we won't mention who they are. If they don't meet our unrealistic demands, we'll cuss them on national television. I really hate these tight deadlines, but I hate taking steps to correct the problems that cause them even more. Besides, this makes for better TV."


That's about every show, in a nutshell. Oh, and there's yelling and various comments about "My size 12 shoe up your ass".




+1 That is it EXACTLY!!!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:50:26 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
I find myself watching the programs mention above. My take, Boyd has hurt his business by showing all the world how quick his cars are slapped together and the employee hate for building them.

OCC, the production bikes are overpriced and not that cool unless you want the OCC engraved on the side covers. Paul Jr, I like him, his dad doesnt have a clue but he a rich bastard so he done something right. Vinnie and Rick are the metal talents of the show and do good work. Mikey, it a good thing he semi funny, biggest lazy ass Ive seen.

Monster garage, JJames was a hard working SOB, but with his current fame, no longer has to sweat like he use too. Cant understand HOW a convictive felon can have the array of weapons that he has fame really can buy back anything




- What weapons?

I saw him and Kid Rock shooting Ar15's in the desert but those belonged to the Mexican Police.
I saw him firing the Mini-gun into the supra but it belongs to Mr. Dillon.

Outside of that I would be highly interested to see his other pieces if he even owns anything himself. He shot that Ar like a complete novice and had ot have assistance from the police in closing the bolt.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:35:12 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I find myself watching the programs mention above. My take, Boyd has hurt his business by showing all the world how quick his cars are slapped together and the employee hate for building them.

OCC, the production bikes are overpriced and not that cool unless you want the OCC engraved on the side covers. Paul Jr, I like him, his dad doesnt have a clue but he a rich bastard so he done something right. Vinnie and Rick are the metal talents of the show and do good work. Mikey, it a good thing he semi funny, biggest lazy ass Ive seen.

Monster garage, JJames was a hard working SOB, but with his current fame, no longer has to sweat like he use too. Cant understand HOW a convictive felon can have the array of weapons that he has fame really can buy back anything




- What weapons?

I saw him and Kid Rock shooting Ar15's in the desert but those belonged to the Mexican Police.
I saw him firing the Mini-gun into the supra but it belongs to Mr. Dillon.

Outside of that I would be highly interested to see his other pieces if he even owns anything himself. He shot that Ar like a complete novice and had ot have assistance from the police in closing the bolt.



IIRc, he in one episode went shooting with some police officers where he brought his own weapons.  a gold .50AE Desert Eagle, and some sort of special edition S&W Revolver.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:00:56 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
after watching them assemble, rarely build,



but yet, if someone on this board says, "I built my own AR15"........everybody calls that a "build". mating a upper to a lower and  maybe attaching  some useless fluff accesories to it,  is not a build.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:15:50 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:



- What weapons?





last night program he was shooting his 50 cal (bought before CA ban them was stated) NXS optics

Also he made comments like, I like guns they are fun to shoot and they can pray my gun from my cold dead hands, so ya I think he has  a collection.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:24:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Never was impressed with American Hotrod.

A lot of the theme bikes from OCC are ok, but my favorite is the POW-MIA bike.  The bike was ok, but thought the way Justin Barnes did the graphics on it was just aww inspiring, I still get teary eyed thinking of it.

OCC MIA/POW Bike

Not a good pic, the show shows the smaller details better.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:55:59 PM EDT
[#17]
The POW bike was cool, agreed, the paint was incredible.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:20:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Will be on the OCC show the 28 or 29th of this month. We flew an American flag up to the shop in a Chinook while they were building two bikes for the Fisher House Foundation. Will make a complete post about it later this month with pics.


Aviator
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:13:02 AM EDT
[#19]
My fav is the Overhaulin Corvettte. That was smooth. Anyone see the T-bird last nite?

M4-AK
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:41:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Jesse James isn't a convicted felon. Sounds like he has been arrested for juvenile stuff a long time ago.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:49:03 AM EDT
[#21]
He must have been thinking of the old west Jesse James.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:51:59 AM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Some of you guys haven't seen American Chopper? Let me break it down for you:

"Well today Duke Shortdick, the President of XYZ Corporation, needs his ego stroked and a tax write off. So, we've been contracted to design a hard core chopper, complete with company logos plastered all over the thing. Yesterday, we spent the day at XYZ Corporation's manufacturing facility where we fucked off for a day, while irritating the employees who actually work for a living. I got lot of inspiration while I was there. I now know what their company colors are and what their logo looks like.

This will be a true custom themed bike. We're going to craft this one of a kind custom by thumbing through the Custom Chrome catalog and ordering a frame and some fenders. We're going to spend 5 hours and cut out a section of rear fender and weld it back together for a custom look, even though it looks just like the other fender on page 356 when finished. Next, we're gonna order up a motor and tranny from RevTech already assembled and ready to bolt in. Mikey will do something mildly amusing.Then, we're gonna bend a bunch of roundbar and weld it all over the place. Vinnie is gonna carve some trinkets on the waterjet, and we're going to farm out the paint. No one is as innovative as us.

Since we never really understood planning and scheduling, we're going to build this last minute project in 2 weeks. Our vendors will be expected to bend over backwards for us. If they do, we won't mention who they are. If they don't meet our unrealistic demands, we'll cuss them on national television. I really hate these tight deadlines, but I hate taking steps to correct the problems that cause them even more. Besides, this makes for better TV."


That's about every show, in a nutshell. Oh, and there's yelling and various comments about "My size 12 shoe up your ass".



ya left out somethin'


+1.  
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:53:03 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
Some of you guys haven't seen American Chopper? Let me break it down for you:

"Well today Duke Shortdick, the President of XYZ Corporation, needs his ego stroked and a tax write off. So, we've been contracted to design a hard core chopper, complete with company logos plastered all over the thing. Yesterday, we spent the day at XYZ Corporation's manufacturing facility where we fucked off for a day, while irritating the employees who actually work for a living. I got lot of inspiration while I was there. I now know what their company colors are and what their logo looks like.

This will be a true custom themed bike. We're going to craft this one of a kind custom by thumbing through the Custom Chrome catalog and ordering a frame and some fenders. We're going to spend 5 hours and cut out a section of rear fender and weld it back together for a custom look, even though it looks just like the other fender on page 356 when finished. Next, we're gonna order up a motor and tranny from RevTech already assembled and ready to bolt in. Then, we're gonna bend a bunch of roundbar and weld it all over the place. Vinnie is gonna carve some trinkets on the waterjet, and we're going to farm out the paint. No one is as innovative as us.

Since we never really understood planning and scheduling, we're going to build this last minute project in 2 weeks. Our vendors will be expected to bend over backwards for us. If they do, we won't mention who they are. If they don't meet our unrealistic demands, we'll cuss them on national television. I really hate these tight deadlines, but I hate taking steps to correct the problems that cause them even more. Besides, this makes for better TV."


That's about every show, in a nutshell. Oh, and there's yelling and various comments about "My size 12 shoe up your ass".


No, Subnet, the 12 shoe remarks are funny!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:53:41 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:
Overhauling was the only show I enjoyed watching - Foose did some pretty cool stuff with those rebuilds ...



Yeah. and they pulled some pretty neat scams on the owners of the cars.  
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:00:25 AM EDT
[#25]


Quoted:
I have no idea who either guy is.




Foose builds some of the best cars in the world, such as the Grand Master:











One of his finest works.

Personally, however, I wouldn't own a car like that. My car would get driven, not garaged.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:04:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Anybody see last nite's episode. Great looking Mustang, maybe his best work. Also Roid Coddingtons exes Charley and Mike were on the show.

M4-AK
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:56:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Just sent TRUCKS TV/Stacey David a link to this thread.  I think he would enjoy reading this.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:59:25 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
Just sent TRUCKS TV/Stacey David a link to this thread.  I think he would enjoy reading this.



Stacey David is, in my opinion, putting on the best auto themed show on television. I watch Trucks every chance I get. And I don't even really like trucks.

But you learn stuff from Stacey. Lots of stuff.

And any man who would mount dual M2's in the back of a giant pickup on steroids is the kind of guy I could buy a beer for.

And I don't drink....
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:05:07 AM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:
Anybody see last nite's episode. Great looking Mustang, maybe his best work. Also Roid Coddingtons exes Charley and Mike were on the show.

M4-AK



EDITED TO SAY. Did anyone see Overhaulin last nite, not American Hot Roid.....
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:23:42 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
Overhauling was the only show I enjoyed watching - Foose did some pretty cool stuff with those rebuilds ...




+1

It's still on and foose is a true customizer, and actually has tallent
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:04:02 AM EDT
[#32]
But they don't have the hot chick on overhaulin anymore


Trucks is still near the top but my new favorite auto show is "Top Gear"
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:57:40 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:


Trucks is still near the top but my new favorite auto show is "Top Gear"


x a million!

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:57:59 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
But they don't have the hot chick on overhaulin anymore


Trucks is still near the top but my new favorite auto show is "Top Gear"




I never got the hots for Courtney Hansen...

M4-AK
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:58:45 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But they don't have the hot chick on overhaulin anymore


Trucks is still near the top but my new favorite auto show is "Top Gear"




I never got the hots for Courtney Hansen...

M4-AK


Are we going to need a BOTD warning on this thread to prove you gay?


Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:32:54 PM EDT
[#36]
I like that Chrissy Albice from Nopi Tuners. Now that's a cool chick.

M4-AK
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:43:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Anybody see Fooose holding the Boyd cutout in the paint booth window to scare Charlie?

Priceless

M4-AK
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:48:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:56:42 AM EDT
[#39]
"Alex, I'll take Boyd Coddington is a Sandy Mangina for $100"



Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:03:00 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:34:17 AM EDT
[#41]
When starting the brand new engine, Foose's guys turned it over to get oil pressure. Then they kicked on the fuel pump and started the engine. Foose made the comment that they never had an engine that didn't start the first time.

On AHR they showed Duane drilling and tapping a hole for the water temp sensor. He drilled the hole after the engine was assembled and set in the body. Can't imagine how many aluminum chips are in the coolant system now.  

That's a big difference in quality and craftsmanship. If i was going to spend 75,000 on a car I know who it would go to.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:35:50 AM EDT
[#42]
The first American Chopper/OCC show I watched was the Commanche bike and I fell in love with the bike and the show at that point. The show has indeed become formulaic since then, but some of the bikes are still pretty cool and do have some custom fabrication (Paulie's own Web Bike comes to mind).

American Hot Rod never really bit me like AC did, but the 2 guys I liked on the show ended up leaving to work with Foose. I saw Charlie painting on an episode of Rides where chip was customizing something  (Caddy vehicles?) and he said something about how he 'used to be employed by another shop' and then 2 months later the AHR show with him leaving was on. The recent Overhaulin build that had Charlie on it also showed Mike manning a CAM machine for a brief second but didn't say anything about him. Beetle Bailey (don't remember his real name) was also on that episode of Overhaulin, the cut hat and lip ring are a dead giveaway.

I like Chip Foose. I like his work, I love his drawings (I'd pay good money to fill a wall full of his drawings, he's really an artist), and his work ethic and attitude (especially on a high pressure show like Overhaulin') are second to none.

I've only seen a couple episodes of Trucks and the host kinda struck me as weird, and the show seemed to be constantly peddling $product_of_the_week, but it is more of a DIY show than a hour long drama like American Chopper/American Hot Rod. I like Extreme 4x4, partially cause the chick is hot and partially cause I recognized the guy from an episode of Monster Garage (which I still like). Monster house is pretty cool, too, even if Steve does piss off a few homeowners along the way. (and it beats the crap out of Trading Spaces, which I admit I did used to watch, but only for the bad designs).

Then again, I work nights and don't get to watch as much of this stuff as I used to. Damn I need TiVO.

ETA: Top Gear is awesome. Their website for the BBC has had some past episodes on it and I've caught bits and pieces that have now been aired on Discovery. Gotta love british humo(u)r coupled with car fanatics.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:58:26 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:
From what I've gathered from a brief search. (google, kids)

Foose worked for Coddington at Hot Rods by Boyd, when that business went bankrupt, Foose left and took some of the best people with him to start his own shop.

So, wah-wah-wah, Butthurt Boyd thinks somebody screwed him over. I hate that show, and that other one where the two hack bike builders yell at each other.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:49:34 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
Trucks kicks ass, he shows quite a lot of unique and inspirational stuff.

The Sgt Rock truck with it's massive Rockwell axles is going to be awesome, basically a rough and ready to go nearly monster truck.      The thing is going to be more awesome than the original Bigfoot.   The damn tires on the Sgt Rock truck are effing huge, Stacey's choice of axle shows his sort of mentality and knows he needs something with enough meat to both turn and stop those massive tires.    Hydraulic steering to boot.

Good fucking luck trying to high center that Sgt Rock truck, it looks like it's approach angle is gonna be like 70 degrees on the front but I'm not sure what is gonna be done with the front bumper.


The Copperhead build was my all time favorite Trucks episode, awesome truck.     Been watching it for about as long as it has been on TV and my only complaint is that it can take a LONG time before you see projects come together because they really take their time to build them, I think it took over a year for Copperhead and the Bronco to come together.


I also kinda like the new Extreme 4x4 because they have done SO much within only 5-6 episodes, built an offroad Jeep from the ground up, have revived a Jeep, are currently building a baja truck on an old Ford Ranger and are quite a ways into it, and they have a Suburban tow project coming together with a Banks twin turbo GM Diesel.



All saved on one of my Tivo's :)

-d
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:54:20 AM EDT
[#45]
If any of your are in the Socal area, stop by his shop. He has to garages near me, went to both of them. You can take a peek at what he's done and what is working on. They do have a part of one of the garages that you can't see in at all. It is for his secret projects.

-d
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:19:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Chip caught Boyd and Paul senior from AmChop in bed
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:33:00 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm really not into billet rods and choppers...rats are where its at...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:50:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Not really knowing anything about Chip Foose but hearing the name "Boyd" while I was growing up after watching these shows the reason why they had a falling out is obvious.

Chip has WAAAYYYY too much talent to work under a guy like Boyd.

You could only IMAGINE the sparks that would fly on a daily basis when Foose has all these idea's and talent while boyd would be trying his hardest to keep him under his thumb cause you know boyd would never let anyone run free, even someone as talented as Foose.
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