What calibre round has killed more people than any other???? I and many Say 7.62x54R. - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What calibre round has killed more people than any other???? I and many Say 7.62x54R. (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 4/17/2005 11:32:22 AM EDT

[#1]

Just remember how many Countries have chambered handguns and sub-guns in 9x19mm and just how many wars it's been used in. It's been around for over 100 years(1902 IIRC) so it's had plenty of time to rack up a good body count.

Posted: 4/17/2005 11:34:22 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Just remember how many Countries have chambered handguns and sub-guns in 9x19mm and just how many wars it's been used in. It's been around for over 100 years(1902 IIRC) so it's had plenty of time to rack up a good body count.

Submachine guns effectively missed WWI were millions were mown down by rifle calibre machine guns.

ANdy

Posted: 4/17/2005 11:41:08 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it would be a toss up between Russian 7.62x54R and Mauser 7.92mm.

There are alot of AK-47's out there in the world, but they were not around for the two world wars.

No, but the round the AK fires was around for at least the second World War, possibly the first.

Heheh, not quite.

Anyways the M43 76239 was indeed used in the last weeks of WWII in Europe being fired from the early early prototypes of the SKS. Its true but almost hard to believe.

Posted: 4/17/2005 11:44:53 AM EDT

[#4]

The correct answer to your specific question is the 7.62 caliber round. It is the most common caliber but coming in MANY different configurations:

7.62 x 54 Russian
7.62 x 63 - 30.06
7.62 x 51 NATO
7.62x39 Russian

There are a few others that would fit in the 7.62 caliber like the Russian
pistol round... I bet that has killed ALOT of Russians !

LB

Posted: 4/17/2005 11:46:19 AM EDT

[#5]

7.62x54R & 7.62x25 (7.63 Mauser) have killed plenty. Both in combat & against "enemies of the state".
7.62x54R has been in continual use since 1891 thru some serious conflicts. Bolt action Mosins, belt & mag fed MGs, & semiauto sniper rifles.
7.62x25/7.63Mauser has been around almost as long. The basic cartridge has been around since 1893 in the Borshardt <sp???> pistol, then loaded hotter for the 1896 Mauser that was used all over the world, esp China. The USSR made tons of TT-33 pistols & millions of PPSh41 & PPS-43 subguns during WW2. PRC & N Korea also used it for their burpguns.

8x57 & .303 rank right up there with with 7.62x54R.

Posted: 4/17/2005 11:56:56 AM EDT

[#6]

7.62 x 54 Russian
.303 British
8mm Mauser

Probably in that order…

Millions killed by each. All in service for 50+ years during 2 world wars, colonial wars, civil wars, revolutions ect… 7.62 x 54 Russian still in service.

.22 LR that is joke, not even close, silly… this is one of those stupid gun myths that simply will not die the death it deserves.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:01:09 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

.223 A-Team

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:01:41 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Anybody died from a .45 GAP round yet?

No, but the round itself is on suicide watch...

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:19:18 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
.303 British,

7.92mm German,

7.62x39 Russian.

British and German MG's killed by the hundreds of thousands in the trenches during WWI, and those rounds had been in service since the turn of the Century and iserved throught WWII. The .303 also did great execution in Korea and on to the end of the 1950's. It also served on both sides in the various Indo-Pakistani wars till the present.

7.62x39 Russian has been killing people world wide since 1947 and must have reacked up many millions by now.

ANdy

Yep!!!!

7.92 killed bushels of Russians in WWII, via MG34 and MG42.

These MG's slaughtered wholesale in the WWI (Vickers and MG08) - During Christmas, MG crews on each side played songs with them.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:24:07 PM EDT

[#10]

No the SKS is the Samozaryadnyi Karabin Sistemi Simonova Obrazets 1945, it was desighned by Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov, NOT Federov, Federov desighned the SVT, and AVT series, none of which were considered avtomats the first avtomat was the Avtomat Kalashnikova Obrazets 1947 also called the AK-47 which was desighned by Mikial Kalashnikov....

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:25:59 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
has to be 762x39 all those crappy countries constantly fighting each other.

+1

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:31:26 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it would be a toss up between Russian 7.62x54R and Mauser 7.92mm.

There are alot of AK-47's out there in the world, but they were not around for the two world wars.

No, but the round the AK fires was around for at least the second World War, possibly the first.

I might be wrong, but I didn't think the 7.62x39 was introduced until the AK47 was developed. I thought that was in 1947.
I still think the 7.62x39 would be a likely winner for the most used round in combat worldwide.
Then again, the 30.06 has killed a hell of a lot of enemy troops between the 1903's, the P14, the M1 and the Browning MG's.

Federov Avtomat otherwise known as the SKS.

Yup. Like I said when I edited my previous post, 7.62x39mm was used in WWII.

The SKS was used in combat in WWII? I thought it was still in the test phase in 44.

Yes it saw some limited field trials during the closeing days of World War 2, it got rave reviews whch was probably part of the reason it was later adopted in 1945, creating the first model SKS, the SKS-45, though I'm not sure if the War was over yet at that point in 1945, at anycase because of the testing 7.62x39 WAS tecnicly a World War 2 cartridge although it would have seen very limited use....

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:33:32 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
No the SKS is the Samozaryadnyi Karabin Sistemi Simonova Obrazets 1945, it was desighned by Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov, NOT Federov, Federov desighned the SVT, and AVT series, none of which were considered avtomats the first avtomat was the Avtomat Kalashnikova Obrazets 1947 also called the AK-47 which was desighned by Mikial Kalashnikov....

Tokarev is responsible for the SVT & AVT.....Federov designed the first "assault rifle" back in 1916 using the 6.5x50 Japanese round instead of the standard Russian 7.62x54R for controllability.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:37:59 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
.22 LR that is joke, not even close, silly… this is one of those stupid gun myths that simply will not die the death it deserves.

Sez you.

I will stick to my assertion until proven otherwise.

Furthermore, I would venture to guess that in the American Civil War, there were more deaths by cavalry sword than any single caliber of rifle bullet.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:38:51 PM EDT

[#15]

.58 ball: (civil war) ?
.45: afghan, boer, zulu (British Martini), WWI, WWII, Vietnam

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:40:25 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Furthermore, I would venture to guess that in the American Civil War, there were more deaths by cavalry sword than any single caliber of rifle bullet.

Actually no, blades wounds accounted for something like .03 percent of wounds according to a survey of surgeons after the civil war. That number included bayonets and swords.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:41:56 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Furthermore, I would venture to guess that in the American Civil War, there were more deaths by cavalry sword than any single caliber of rifle bullet.

Actually no, blades wounds accounted for something like .03 percent of wounds according to a survey of surgeons after the civil war. That number included bayonets and swords.

But not surgeon's scalpels or saws..............

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:42:09 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Furthermore, I would venture to guess that in the American Civil War, there were more deaths by cavalry sword than any single caliber of rifle bullet.

Actually no, blades wounds accounted for something like .03 percent of wounds according to a survey of surgeons after the civil war. That number included bayonets and swords.

Damn you and your facts! F'in n00bs, when will you learn that facts have no place here at ARFCOM, least of all GD!

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:44:11 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it would be a toss up between Russian 7.62x54R and Mauser 7.92mm.

There are alot of AK-47's out there in the world, but they were not around for the two world wars.

No, but the round the AK fires was around for at least the second World War, possibly the first.

I might be wrong, but I didn't think the 7.62x39 was introduced until the AK47 was developed. I thought that was in 1947.
I still think the 7.62x39 would be a likely winner for the most used round in combat worldwide.
Then again, the 30.06 has killed a hell of a lot of enemy troops between the 1903's, the P14, the M1 and the Browning MG's.

7.62x39mm was introduced for the SKS, which was adopted before the AK.
I believe the cartridge was introduced in 1943, but I doubt it saw any combat in the Big One.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:46:43 PM EDT

[#20]

I would say no doubt 7.62x55R Soviet, 7.92x57 Mauser, .30 M1906, .303 British....

I seriously doubt that all the deaths since WW2 with the 76239 round would equal either of the two world wars worst year....... I'd say the soviet full power round is king, just cause they used it for a loooooong time, in more platforms than the other rounds, and against everyone including themselves.

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:47:45 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

The .50Smurf

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:47:46 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
.303 British,

7.92mm German,

7.62x39 Russian.

British and German MG's killed by the hundreds of thousands in the trenches during WWI, and those rounds had been in service since the turn of the Century and iserved throught WWII. The .303 also did great execution in Korea and on to the end of the 1950's. It also served on both sides in the various Indo-Pakistani wars till the present.

7.62x39 Russian has been killing people world wide since 1947 and must have reacked up many millions by now.

ANdy

I dont think .303 is even in the feild of play here, no offense.

I take it you don't read much military history them…

ANdy

I'm with Andy.
Look at all those pics of the Afghani guerillas from the Soviet Occupation.
What rifles do you think they had?
A good ol' .303 Brit

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:49:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Furthermore, I would venture to guess that in the American Civil War, there were more deaths by cavalry sword than any single caliber of rifle bullet.

Actually no, blades wounds accounted for something like .03 percent of wounds according to a survey of surgeons after the civil war. That number included bayonets and swords.

Damn you and your ~~facts~~ allegations! F'in n00bs, when will you learn that you must supply links to support allegations, without that it isnt a facts, and have no place here at ARFCOM, least of all GD!

FIXT!

Posted: 4/17/2005 12:54:25 PM EDT

[#24]

105 or 155 mm. You didn't say rifle rounds.

Posted: 4/17/2005 1:23:31 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

7.5x54mm M1929C
5.56 Type Fr
7.65x22mm Longue
8x50R Lebel

see a pattern ?

Posted: 4/17/2005 1:29:52 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

7.5x54mm M1929C
5.56 Type Fr
7.65x22mm Longue
8x50R Lebel

see a pattern ?

I'm sure those rounds have done plenty of killing in 3ed world shitholes like Algeria, etc in the hands of the French Foreign Legion....

Posted: 4/17/2005 1:41:29 PM EDT

[#27]

I'm voting 8mm Mauser.

WWI, huge casualties.

Spanish Civil War, same.

WWII, holocaust, eastern and western fronts.

Since WWII, lots of skirmishes and insurrections that still use it in MG's and lots of Mausers still being used.

Posted: 4/17/2005 1:43:46 PM EDT

[#28]

Then again, the 30.06 has killed a hell of a lot of enemy troops between the 1903's, the P14, the M1 and the Browning MG's.

The British pattern 14 rifle was chambered for .303 british. The M1917 US rifle was in .30'06.

Posted: 4/17/2005 2:18:09 PM EDT

[#29]

7.62x39 , let me clear some thing up. it was known as the m43 cartridge, and it was used for the SKS carbine. And yes, for the record it did see action in WWII. And it was not "limited" action. It saw action as the russians were driving out the germans from russia during the beloruss campaign, and it was also used heavily in the battle for berlin. and millions of rounds were made in 1945. But it is not the most prolific killer, that goes tho either the 7.62x54r or the mauser 7x57.

Posted: 4/17/2005 2:24:34 PM EDT

[#30]

I'll go with 8mm Mauser as well.

Remember, in both WWI and WWII, the Germans not only killed an enormous number of Russians, but they did the bulk of the fighting on the Western Front as well. Also, the Nazis killed many non-combatants during the war, even if you don't count those who died in concentration camps.

My second choice would be 7.62x39, mainly in civil wars and use against civilians in communist and other shitty countries.

Posted: 4/17/2005 2:52:10 PM EDT

[#31]

maybe .22lr for civilian deaths, lots of accidental shootings by .22s

Posted: 4/17/2005 2:55:59 PM EDT

[#32]

I think I read sometime ago it was speculated to be the 9mm. The Nazis killed something like 40 million people. It makes sense that the 9mm was responsible for many of those. But who really knows for sure?

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:37:29 PM EDT

[#33]

The M43. More people have died in combat since WWII than during WWII. And there are 20 million AK's out there. Name any other gun that is even close in numbers.

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:39:53 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
.22LR

ETA: By a country mile!

Maybe civvie murders, but look how many Americans are killed every year, not even as many as the GI's who died on D-Day. War weapons will rule over the .22.

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:43:48 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

.45 GAP?

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:50:38 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
My guess would be 7.62x39

followed by Mauser 7.92 or the russian 7.62x54r. Is their anyway to fact check this? 5.56 and 9mm might be off in the distance somewhere, but I got to thinking of this a while ago and thought it would make an interesting discussion,

I'd go with 7.92 or one of the other Great War/WWII cartridges. We have never seen the same prolonged level of bloodshed since.

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:55:30 PM EDT

[#37]

Vito113 really got me thinking about .303 British but I still say 1. 7.62x54R or /2. 7.62x39 and /3. .303

ETA: I am suprised that noone has (stupidly) tried to make a case for 5.56.

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:59:35 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

I would think the .50 AE.
Think about it only on a very select few platforms and hard as hell to find.

For the most deaths I would thing the old lead ball's in the early wars. Those lead balls killed millions of Native Americans (Indans). If memory serves me well I think it was between .45 and .60 cal, most common being around .50 Cal.

So .50 Lead ball black powder.

Posted: 4/17/2005 3:59:46 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
The M43. More people have died in combat since WWII than during WWII. And there are 20 million AK's out there. Name any other gun that is even close in numbers.

There were some 100 millon Mausers made, the AK ain't close, yet.

BTW, I would not be surprised if Izhmash has made close to 20 million AK's itself. So your figure is a way low.

Edit:

Oh yeah, I will go with 8mm Mauser as #1:

users.erols.com/hyattg/usmcguns/max0815s.htm

Posted: 4/17/2005 4:08:26 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What caliber round has never killed anyone?

I would think the .50 AE.
Think about it only on a very select few platforms and hard as hell to find.

For the most deaths I would thing the old lead ball's in the early wars. Those lead balls killed millions of Native Americans (Indans). If memory serves me well I think it was between .45 and .60 cal, most common being around .50 Cal.

So .50 Lead ball black powder.

You remember a while back someone posted a darwin awards thread about the idiot who tried to rob a Guns and Leather store??? Supposedly one of the store employees opened up with a DE in .50AE. I couldn't find the press article but said moron was supposedly hit in the neighborhood of 30+ times by 6-8 people including a umiformed cop in the shop prior to his shift as well as employees and patrons.

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:31:55 PM EDT

[#41]

30.06

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:38:48 PM EDT

[#42]

.22LR, I'm serious!!! It's been around longer than ALL modern pistol and rifle cartridges, People get shot with one or shoot themselves by accident, don't think they are hurt that bad so they treat themselves at home, Meanwhile they develop gangrene or slowly bleed to death internally!!!

I Shit you not, this came from a medical Doctor who learned it medical school, the .22LR has killed more people intentionally or not than all other calibers combined around the world!!

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:39:57 PM EDT

[#43]

8mm/7.92 claiber. Millions killed in WWI with the Maxim MG08. Spanish civil war thousands more. Then the Germans used the same caliber in WWII with the MG34 & 42 killing millions more. The Arabs and Turks also used the cartridge combined with the Israelis in the eary years of their independence. I cannot think of any other that has killed in the millions.

The 7.62x39 has fought in many conflicts and revolutions/insurrections, but none that will add up to the millions killed in the great wars.

My .02

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:51:03 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
8mm/7.92 claiber. Millions killed in WWI with the Maxim MG08. Spanish civil war thousands more. Then the Germans used the same caliber in WWII with the MG34 & 42 killing millions more. The Arabs and Turks also used the cartridge combined with the Israelis in the eary years of their independence. I cannot think of any other that has killed in the millions.

The 7.62x39 has fought in many conflicts and revolutions/insurrections, but none that will add up to the millions killed in the great wars.

My .02

Romania, cambodia, Vietnam, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Shit Africa in general, the former Yugoslavia, Czechloslovakia, and more S. Aerican conflicts than I can count, as well as the middle east. That does not add up to millions?

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:53:10 PM EDT

[#45]

come on folks time to get real. WW1 and 2 killed how many russians and germans alone? It's one of those 30 caliber full power rounds. period. get away from teh 9mm and Intermediate 30 caliber rounds, they pale in comparison.

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:55:28 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Anybody died from a .45 GAP round yet?

Probably not and probably never will.

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:58:58 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
come on folks time to get real. WW1 and 2 killed how many russians and germans alone? It's one of those 30 caliber full power rounds. period. get away from teh 9mm and Intermediate 30 caliber rounds, they pale in comparison.

Did you read my last posts????? I would still say 54R but I beleive the 7.62x39 has probably killed more than the Mauser.

WWII 1. Russians=20,000,000+ just as many killed by Russian rounds as Mauser rounds. Also this figure does not include Stalins purges.
2. Germans=6,000,00 includes the ones captured that never came home from Russia.

Posted: 4/17/2005 5:59:29 PM EDT

[#48]

8mm mauser or the 7.62x54r. Just think of wwI(trenches/machineguns) and wwII(street fighting/executions).

I dont see a case made of rthe .303 just look at how little it is around today for one thing. After wwII it is non existant for the guerilla fighters except in Afghanistan.

Posted: 4/17/2005 6:02:05 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
8mm mauser or the 7.62x54r. Just think of wwI(trenches/machineguns) and wwII(street fighting/executions).

I dont see a case made of rthe .303 just look at how little it is around today for one thing. After wwII it is non existant for the guerilla fighters except in Afghanistan.

The Brits had Army and Marine ground units in WWII they used variants of the Enfield and Bren.

Posted: 4/17/2005 6:16:21 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Furthermore, I would venture to guess that in the American Civil War, there were more deaths by cavalry sword than any single caliber of rifle bullet.

Actually no, blades wounds accounted for something like .03 percent of wounds according to a survey of surgeons after the civil war. That number included bayonets and swords.

Damn you and your ~~facts~~ allegations! F'in n00bs, when will you learn that you must supply links to support allegations, without that it isnt a facts, and have no place here at ARFCOM, least of all GD!

FIXT!

You may actually want to take up reading than, it is pretty easy to find how little wounds are caused by them. You will have to look at the following books such as "Dirty Little Secrets of War," "How to Make War, "On Infantry, first addition," "On infantry, revised addition," "Bayonet Battles," and "On Killing."

Hell a quick google search without doing allot of reading yields this

"Point!"

The bayonet does not rate highly as a cause of wounds and death in comparison to other battlefield weapons. Napoleon’s own surgeon-general claimed that "for every bayonet-wound he treated there were a hundred caused by small arms or artillery fire." (22) One source gives sabre and bayonet wound statistics as 15-20 per cent before 1850 and only 4-6 per cent after 1860. (23) Similarly Puysegar is recorded as stating that one should "just go to the hospital and … see how few men have been wounded by cold steel as opposed to firearms." (24) And Duffy quotes Corvisier as giving bayonet wound statistics as only 2.4 per cent. (25) Statistics from the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 give two and a half percent as the overall casualty rate for spears, swords and bayonets. (26)

Byron Farwell, in his work on the pre World War I British Army, Mr Kipling’s Army, presents the following:

"The halberd was carried by sergeants until 1830, but the weapon most favoured was the pike, or rather its less efficient modern equivalent, the bayonet, which replaced it about 1700. When, during the First Sikh War, at the battle of Sobraon (10 February 1846), it was reported to General Sir Hugh Gough that the artillery was running short of ammunition, he exclaimed, ‘Thank God! Then I’ll be at them with the bayonet!’ This faith in the most primitive and least efficacious of available weapons persisted into the First World War and beyond. The bayonet is more intimidating than lethal; comparatively few have ever been killed by it." (27)

Wintringham offers a glimpse of the frequency of bayonet casualties during the First World War in stating that they were so rare no separate statistical records were maintained. Bayonet wounds treated were inclusive to the 1.02 per cent miscellaneous casualties and accidents. (28)

Statistics from the American Civil War state that over three months of action near Richmond, characterized by above average rates of hand-to-hand combat, casualty ratios for the Union Army were significantly in favour of projectile wounds. While over 32,000 men received treatment for bullet wounds, only thirty-seven were treated for bayonet thrusts. An observer from the same period confirmed that the wounds evident on the dead were in similar proportion. The damage inflicted during "bayonet assault" was most often executed by bullets.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What calibre round has killed more people than any other???? I and many Say 7.62x54R. (Page 2 of 4)

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