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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:44:43 PM EDT
[#1]
That will work as well as Land Warrior did.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:45:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
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No matter what you or I think this is what the current Army Chief of Staff fears, this is the driving force behind NATICK developing a new ADVAP(Advaned Armor Piercing) round in 7.62 and why he is pushing out the ICSR on such a fast time frame. My question was, has Milley stated that RATNIK-3 is the reason for the ICSR? |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:49:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, to be fair, that is the most convincing reason presented for this stupid .308 bullshit so far.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Concur. It is quite illogical to think that an urgent program which is meant to field an off-the-shelf 7.62 rifle as quickly as possible, would be motivated by a body armor threat that won't exist for at least 15 years. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:49:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who? Congress chose to side with the Army Chief of Staff. If he has congress on his side what "higher up" is there to stop him? |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:51:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or we could go back to 19O3A3 Springfields and learn to shoot. 
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:59:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will work as well as Land Warrior did. Land Warrior proved the version we used was crap but that the concept was FUCKING AWESOME. And with our tech levels now, we can definitely make it work rather easily and reliably. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:00:27 PM EDT
[#7]
What comp is developing our weapon system? What ties does ACoS have to said company?
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:02:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that means Russia. But, it means Russia now, not 15 years from now. My question was, has Milley stated that RATNIK-3 is the reason for the ICSR? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
No matter what you or I think this is what the current Army Chief of Staff fears, this is the driving force behind NATICK developing a new ADVAP(Advaned Armor Piercing) round in 7.62 and why he is pushing out the ICSR on such a fast time frame. My question was, has Milley stated that RATNIK-3 is the reason for the ICSR? |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:05:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carried Land Warrior in Iraq. It was a huge force multiplier, though cumbersome, not overly reliable, etc. But we were using Gen I, better generations were tested by other units and Rangers/SFOD-D. Stripped of all the gun shit, the commo shit, the latest version does all the bad ass stuff we liked about the 10 lb version and is the size of a Samsung Galaxy 8+, you can stick it on your upper chest on your plate carrier and pull it down whenever you need to know exactly where you and everyone else are. Its a <1 lb piece of equipment that gives every Soldier in leadership positions the dismounted version of the FBCB2/BFT. With that you can always know exactly where you are, you can plot routes, you can tell where all other users are located, you can drop chemlights for whatever (targets, enemy spotted, TRPs for supporting arms, CCPs, etc.). A thousand times better than wrist Garmin or map and compass and protractor. Land Warrior proved the version we used was crap but that the concept was FUCKING AWESOME. And with our tech levels now, we can definitely make it work rather easily and reliably. I have not seen any pictures of dudes using that stuff. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:06:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What comp is developing our weapon system? What ties does ACoS have to said company? It's a open competition to any COTS rifle that requires no modifications and can be delivered by Sept 6, 2017. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:14:09 PM EDT
[#11]
The Russians sure do love to play these games and make crazy claims.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:17:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rangers Ive seen talk about it. Said it sucked. And if it was really tits, that system would have been fast tracked. You'd see Grunts all over using it. I have not seen any pictures of dudes using that stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I carried Land Warrior in Iraq. It was a huge force multiplier, though cumbersome, not overly reliable, etc. But we were using Gen I, better generations were tested by other units and Rangers/SFOD-D. Stripped of all the gun shit, the commo shit, the latest version does all the bad ass stuff we liked about the 10 lb version and is the size of a Samsung Galaxy 8+, you can stick it on your upper chest on your plate carrier and pull it down whenever you need to know exactly where you and everyone else are. Its a <1 lb piece of equipment that gives every Soldier in leadership positions the dismounted version of the FBCB2/BFT. With that you can always know exactly where you are, you can plot routes, you can tell where all other users are located, you can drop chemlights for whatever (targets, enemy spotted, TRPs for supporting arms, CCPs, etc.). A thousand times better than wrist Garmin or map and compass and protractor. Land Warrior proved the version we used was crap but that the concept was FUCKING AWESOME. And with our tech levels now, we can definitely make it work rather easily and reliably. I have not seen any pictures of dudes using that stuff. The Land Warrior was only funded to a certain degree, it was never allowed to grow enough because they cut the funding early on and then let it just die out. The first and second generation were the only ones the Army paid for and the one the Rangers used was either the same one I used (which was made with late 90s tech), or they had the Gen II versions which were only a bit better. The project got canceled but GD kept working on it and I can't find the US version (which I've seen), but here is a pic of the Japanese version of what I'm talking about, of what Land Warrior has basically turned into: 
With that little fold down touch screen computer, a Soldier will have his own position laid out on either a topo map or overhead imagery of his AO. He'll get a moving ten digit grid of his location. He'll know where everyone else in the same net is located because their positions will populate on his map. He'll be able to drop an electronic chemlight anywhere and then everyone else can see it. There is no gun camera, there is no Inter/Intra team radio feature. Its all about Situational Awareness and Land Navigation. And those two things are often pretty nifty to have with you, especially if the cost is a couple PAL webbing on the front of your plate carrier. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:22:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russians sure do love to play these games and make crazy claims. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:23:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Land Warrior was only funded to a certain degree, it was never allowed to grow enough because they cut the funding early on and then let it just die out. The first and second generation were the only ones the Army paid for and the one the Rangers used was either the same one I used (which was made with late 90s tech), or they had the Gen II versions which were only a bit better. The project got canceled but GD kept working on it and I can't find the US version (which I've seen), but here is a pic of the Japanese version of what I'm talking about, of what Land Warrior has basically turned into: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/JGSDF.jpg With that little fold down touch screen computer, a Soldier will have his own position laid out on either a topo map or overhead imagery of his AO. He'll get a moving ten digit grid of his location. He'll know where everyone else in the same net is located because their positions will populate on his map. He'll be able to drop an electronic chemlight anywhere and then everyone else can see it. There is no gun camera, there is no Inter/Intra team radio feature. Its all about Situational Awareness and Land Navigation. And those two things are often pretty nifty to have with you, especially if the cost is a couple PAL webbing on the front of your plate carrier. 
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:32:10 PM EDT
[#15]
JDAM proof?
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:33:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait. Are you seriously suggesting that a good piece of equipment would get issued just because it was good? Yeah, about that. The Army doesn't work that way. The Land Warrior was only funded to a certain degree, it was never allowed to grow enough because they cut the funding early on and then let it just die out. The first and second generation were the only ones the Army paid for and the one the Rangers used was either the same one I used (which was made with late 90s tech), or they had the Gen II versions which were only a bit better. The project got canceled but GD kept working on it and I can't find the US version (which I've seen), but here is a pic of the Japanese version of what I'm talking about, of what Land Warrior has basically turned into: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/JGSDF.jpg With that little fold down touch screen computer, a Soldier will have his own position laid out on either a topo map or overhead imagery of his AO. He'll get a moving ten digit grid of his location. He'll know where everyone else in the same net is located because their positions will populate on his map. He'll be able to drop an electronic chemlight anywhere and then everyone else can see it. There is no gun camera, there is no Inter/Intra team radio feature. Its all about Situational Awareness and Land Navigation. And those two things are often pretty nifty to have with you, especially if the cost is a couple PAL webbing on the front of your plate carrier. 
If you were a grunt, especially as a small unit dismounted leader, are you seriously telling me you don't think this is handier and more of a force multiplier than a heavy ass rifle in a heavy ass caliber that only very slightly better defeats enemy body armor compared to M4/M995 combo? |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:36:43 PM EDT
[#17]
What is XM1158?
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:40:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Fake news
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:41:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who? Congress chose to side with the Army Chief of Staff. If he has congress on his side what "higher up" is there to stop him? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
None of this will materialize. Some higher up needs to stop this. Waste of money..... Congress chose to side with the Army Chief of Staff. If he has congress on his side what "higher up" is there to stop him?  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:42:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is XM1158? |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:44:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is XM1158? Supposedly it easily defeats Level IV ceramic armor while also doing excellent terminal performance. It is also supposed to be using a polymer case from what I've heard. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:44:28 PM EDT
[#22]
If I had to fight someone, gunfight or hands, I hope they are wearing all that shit and walk in slow motion, roll around like a turtle on it's back, and can't get basic sight alignment due to the stupid helmet. Plus, lots to grab onto.
We did some basic grapling in armor and helmets. It was not cool...an opponent can manhandle you as you are covered in shit to grab. The only meaningful advantage was that you were hard to hurt with body blows and you could use your helmet as a weapon...to a point. F That. Less is more. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:44:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote History |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:45:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fake news The ICSR? No, it's very real and happening. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:46:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol if you think Trump is going to stop the Army from procuring a new rifle when the Chief of Staff got before congress and basically said "we need this or soldiers will die!". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol if you think Trump is going to stop the Army from procuring a new rifle when the Chief of Staff got before congress and basically said "we need this or soldiers will die!".  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:47:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm skeptical the Russians can field those in any realistic numbers. 5.56 is still a better choice IMO. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:48:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:55:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep laughing, but the ICSR is a real thing and begins in 9 days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep laughing, but the ICSR is a real thing and begins in 9 days. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:56:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep laughing, but the ICSR is a real thing and begins in 9 days. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:00:03 PM EDT
[#30]
We will never have a conventional war with Russia, so what's the point?
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:03:58 PM EDT
[#31]
That stuff the Russians are proposing are just mock ups, bad ones at that. No doubt they will try and field something in the coming years, but we're talking a few decades. That being said the Russians certainly are trying to think outside the box, with their T-14 using an unmanned turret and packing a lot of tech that other designs don't have. The Russians are finally throwing cold war designs to the wayside which is something to be concerned with. We won't go to war with Russia, but they will export these systems.
But somehow I don't think going to a decades old cartridge which many here with experience seem to think is inefficient is the right way to go. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:04:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or we could go back to 19O3A3 Springfields and learn to shoot. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:08:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, that. No, this is just vaporware at some Russian expo where they stole all the design stuff from other western vaporware demos. The ICSR is to defeat body armor, specifically Russian. But Milley isn't about common sense. He's about creating an national security emergency to generate funding for a force that got reliant on its GWOT money a bit too much. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:09:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Call of Duty is really popular in Russia?
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:17:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And the Army decides to stay with the M4. LOL The fact that Phase I only plans to fire 210 rounds, and Phase II plans to fire 25k-35k in 7 rifles says a lot about how badly they want this to be done in a timely manner. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:18:42 PM EDT
[#36]
So they're going to wear full faced helmets in 120 degree ME conditions?
How big will the wagon be they have to pull behind them that carries the car batteries and AC window unit?? 
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:19:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russians are reading old Dale Brown books!!! |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:23:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It may be insanity, but it is happening! |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:23:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Buck Rodgers had shit like that, plus he had laser guns and friggin twiggy
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:24:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right after the XM-8 We'll know more soon, Phase I begins in 9 days. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:29:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One can hope, but all evidence points to this being a done deal and happening this time. The fact that Phase I only plans to fire 210 rounds, and Phase II plans to fire 25k-35k in 7 rifles says a lot about how badly they want this to be done in a timely manner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And the Army decides to stay with the M4. LOL The fact that Phase I only plans to fire 210 rounds, and Phase II plans to fire 25k-35k in 7 rifles says a lot about how badly they want this to be done in a timely manner. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:32:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is based on your Goverment testing experience? But don't just blow this one off yet, everything points to this happening. I believe a lot of these same arguments were said about the MHS and look where we are with that. The XM17 is being issued out to the 101st in November. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:32:36 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:33:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buck Rodgers had shit like that, plus he had laser guns and friggin twiggy And it's Rogers. And Twiki... |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:44:03 PM EDT
[#45]
lol
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Posted: 8/28/2017 9:00:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Erin Grey is much sexier than Twiggy. And it's Rogers. And Twiki... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Buck Rodgers had shit like that, plus he had laser guns and friggin twiggy And it's Rogers. And Twiki...  SUCK MY BALLS feat. TWIKI |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 9:10:35 PM EDT
[#47]
What round for Spartans?
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Posted: 8/28/2017 9:13:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote History7.62 XM1158 clearly.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 9:19:10 PM EDT
[#49]
They can probably afford to make a few dozen of them.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 9:23:22 PM EDT
[#50]
If this is actually the reason why then Milley is fucking retarded.
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