Quoted: I'll say flat out, Ar15s are second in importance to my job, which is being destroyed by illegal immigrants. I have enough AR15s and ammo for me, my kids, and my grand kids and I am not giving them up.

As bad as Zumbo - I got mine, you get yours. The 2nd isn't about AR15s or Winchester 94s or Remmy 1100s - some people will never get it.

Quoted: I'll say flat out, Ar15s are second in importance to my job, which is being destroyed by illegal immigrants.  I stayed home last election in protest.  I'll vote for Paul or Tancredo in the primary and when they loose I'll stay home again for the general. I have enough AR15s and ammo for me, my kids, and my grand kids and I am not giving them up. How many of you wrote your congressmen or sent bricks on my behalf.  If we get another ban too bad for those of you that did not help me out on my issue. If you want my vote you better turn your GOP around. P.S. I have already written my congresswoman about HR1022

Be careful ...they will prevent us from leaving these "bad" guns when we pass...and the dems are more likely to do it.

fred

Quoted: Quoted: I'll say flat out, Ar15s are second in importance to my job, which is being destroyed by illegal immigrants. As bad as Zumbo - I got mine, you get yours. The 2nd isn't about AR15s or Winchester 94s or Remmy 1100s - some people will never get it.

I know good and well what it is about but our country is being ruined on many fronts and burring our heads in the sand will do no good -- with or without our Arms.  

Its passed time to exercise our 2nd Amendment right to rout D.C. but were all to effiminent to do it

I say you capitulators are like Zumbo.  You want your hobby black rifles but other than that your happy with the socialist communist fascist state that is growing up around us. " Just let me keep my toys and I'll be happy"

We know one thing, the election was not about the economy.  Enjoy the stress of war and it's afterglow.  Not much you can do about it.  It's the pendulum of public sentiment.  Unless we can get another Iwo Jima picture but alas all we've gotten so far is Abu Ghraib.

The public is a sucker for sentiment and the media gives it to them.  It's all about how you feel.  Even Lincoln was famous for saying "most folks are about as happy as they make up their mind to be."

No, Feinstein et al will never give up on the AWB or further gun bans.  True believers, and so are we.  It's a lifelong struggle.

I thought it was silly to watch the Republican party get further and further from my conservative views and yet continue to approve of this.  If enough people had the balls to tell them to shove it, maybe they would get the point and come back to the right.

But, most likely, people will continue to vote for them and they will continue to represent our values less every year.

The Republicans DID need to be sent a lesson.  Unfortunately we sent it in the wrong way and they didn't understand it.  So now it will have to be done again.

The message should be that we're tired of the same old RINO's and will not continue to vote for Republicans just because they're slightly to the right of the liberal democrat candidate.  As long as we do that Republican party will continue moving further and further left.   Right now they see no negatives to doing that, they'll bring more moderates and pro-war liberals into the fold and since they'll stay slightly to the left of the D then we'll continue voting for them.

Does anyone here REALLY want to have to choose between Hillary and Giuliani?  Those are the kinds of choices we'll get time and time again if we don't force the Republicans back to toeing the conservative line.

To answer the obvious question ahead of time, no I didn't stay home in the last election and I didn't vote for Democrats or third party.  All the R's in my district, with the exception of McCain (who wasn't running) don't need to be sent a message, they already "get it".

And I predicted new gun bans too, it's why I have several new guns, boxes of magazines and many new, and full, ammo cans.

Quoted: I say you capitulators are like Zumbo.  You want your hobby black rifles but other than that your happy with the socialist communist fascist state that is growing up around us. " Just let me keep my toys and I'll be happy"

True communism/socialism can't begin without first banning/confiscating weapons from the general population. History has showed us this time and again. Until then just consider everything they do as a diversion from the real goal.
Blame the "government should do everything (gimme healthcare, gimme food, gimme something, protect my job) for me" crowd for the pissant socialists crap we have now.  

Quoted: Quoted: Like back in the November time frame? I think I'll do some searching on threads and get some names of members who thought it was silly for us to worry about it. Do you still feel the same way? Do you own a gun? Do you care? that's right! CREATE DISSENT! Start fighting amongst ourselves! It's EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED!! LET THE FINGER POINTING GAME BEGIN!!!!!!!!!

If the mistakes are not pointed out the ASSHATS will never learn.  They should be shamed and humiliated in public for supporting the gun grabbers.

I wish they would just Ban all guns already so we can start trading Bullets.

I hope another AWB doesn't pass, but we will see.


Nathan

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like back in the November time frame? I think I'll do some searching on threads and get some names of members who thought it was silly for us to worry about it. Do you still feel the same way? Do you own a gun? Do you care? that's right! CREATE DISSENT! Start fighting amongst ourselves! It's EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED!! LET THE FINGER POINTING GAME BEGIN!!!!!!!!! If the mistakes are not pointed out the ASSHATS will never learn.  They should be shamed and humiliated in public for supporting the gun grabbers.

And anyone who makes the mistake of voting for someone who is spending out of control and doing nothing about the invader labor problem should be shamed and humiliated in public for supporting invader labor and unrestricted spending.

Quoted: Quoted: Like back in the November time frame? I think I'll do some searching on threads and get some names of members who thought it was silly for us to worry about it. Do you still feel the same way? Do you own a gun? Do you care? Jesus Christ. This woman does this shit every few years. It's her pet cause. Even if we had kept control of both houses, it would have been introduced. It will fail this year just as it has in the past. Probably won't make it out of committee.

yup

Quoted: And anyone who makes the mistake of voting for someone who is spending out of control and doing nothing about the invader labor problem should be shamed and humiliated in public for supporting invader labor and unrestricted spending.

Unfortunately, the replacements voted in will do all the above AND want your guns. I'm definitely not smart enough to know what the answer is, but I have enough brains to know it ain't the new group in charge. I'm starting to seriously doubt that any true conservative can get elected on a national basis.

Quoted: Quoted: I say you capitulators are like Zumbo.  You want your hobby black rifles but other than that your happy with the socialist communist fascist state that is growing up around us. " Just let me keep my toys and I'll be happy" True communism/socialism can't begin without first banning/confiscating weapons from the general population. History has showed us this time and again. Until then just consider everything they do as a diversion from the real goal. Blame the "government should do everything (gimme healthcare, gimme food, gimme something, protect my job) for me" crowd for the pissant socialists crap we have now.

You don't need to preach the second amendment to me brother--I'm locked and loaded.   But they're gonna get their totalitarian state despite our guns cause we don't have the souls of free men anymore.  Anyone too scared to stand on principle has only themselves to blame.

Quoted: I didn't say they would "sort it out" I said they would overturn the AWB that everyone's talking about. The previous bans and actions do not have the scope of the proposed ban, a ban that would effectively outlaw an entire class of weapons. Weapons that have been legal to make, sell, transport, and buy for many years. It's going to be difficult to ban these weapons when they have been accepted as normal for so long.

You clearly haven't been reading any court opinions or following any of this stuff for the last 70 years. The majority view at the Circuit Court of Appeals level is that Congress can pass any damn law it likes regarding firearms and it doesn't matter because you have no individual right to bear arms.

Only one circuit (the 5th Circuit) has said that there is an individual right to bear arms - and it is subject to "reasonable restrictions" which at least one judge writing a concurring opinion thought included the 1994 AWB as a reasonable restrictions. He called Emerson's ownership of a Beretta M9, Springfield M1A, M1 carbine, and a 12ga a "military style arsenal." that was "clearly not protected." This from a judge (Parker) who DID find an individual right. Not only that but the finding of an individual right was in dicta - which means that it is not binding precedent.

I have no doubt that our Supreme Court would overturn this ban as unconstitutional.

Let me throw out just one problem for you - name a test that the Supreme Court can use to invalidate this legislation; but that doesn't invalidate any other federal firearms law. Tell me which five Justices are going to go along with that test.

The Supreme Court has absolutely zero interest in taking a 2A case because it is a lose-lose deal for them. If they say it is a collective right and can be regulated on a rational basis test, they have just ignored the 90% of the American populace who believe it is an individual right (this includes about 20% who actually support gun bans but still believe it is an individual right). Not only that; but the best legal minds out there haven't been able to come up with a justification of the collective rights argument that would sway a second-grade child. A collective rights decision is basically the Supreme Court saying "Let's get it on!" to millions of armed gun owners who share the same view as the majority of the American populace.

On the other hand, if the Second is an individual right, even one with "reasonable restrictions" then it can't be regulated on a rational basis (like Congress has been doing for the last 50 years). The Supreme Court is not going to overturn 50 years worth of federal law that the public has already accepted. Conservative justices are especially not going to do it because the whole point of a conservative is that they don't favor drastic, major change. So if the Supreme Court declares an individual right, then they also have to give lower courts a test they can use to determine whether a law is constitutional or not. They want that test to be as clear as possible so they can continue to avoid all the sticky issues raised by 2A cases.

So write me a clear test that invalidates H.R. 1022; but doesn't invalidate any other major federal firearms law. Make sure it doesn't open a can of worms somewhere else either. Finally make sure it can withstand thousands of lawyers twisting it in every way possible to get an edge for their client Ricky the corner thug; but it still reaches a favorable result when a good citizen is caught up by it.

Of course, none of this even gets into the individual biases of the current slate of Justices, several of whom plain don't like guns anyway and have no problem with gun bans. Short version - I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a Supreme Court decision to save us if this passes.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I say you capitulators are like Zumbo.  You want your hobby black rifles but other than that your happy with the socialist communist fascist state that is growing up around us. " Just let me keep my toys and I'll be happy" True communism/socialism can't begin without first banning/confiscating weapons from the general population. History has showed us this time and again. Until then just consider everything they do as a diversion from the real goal. Blame the "government should do everything (gimme healthcare, gimme food, gimme something, protect my job) for me" crowd for the pissant socialists crap we have now.   You don't need to preach the second amendment to me brother--I'm locked and loaded.   But they're gonna get their totalitarian state despite our guns cause we don't have the souls of free men anymore.  Anyone too scared to stand on principle has only themselves to blame.

Unfortunately, there's seems to be some truth in that statement. I still stand by my opinion the 2nd is more important than a lot of this other crap going on.

Quoted: Quoted: And anyone who makes the mistake of voting for someone who is spending out of control and doing nothing about the invader labor problem should be shamed and humiliated in public for supporting invader labor and unrestricted spending. Unfortunately, the replacements voted in will do all the above AND want your guns. I'm definitely not smart enough to know what the answer is, but I have enough brains to know it ain't the new group in charge. I'm starting to seriously doubt that any true conservative can get elected on a national basis.

I think they could get elected, but they won't put them on a ticket unless they have to.  Maybe I'm just too optimistic.

Quoted: I'm not worried. Even on the off chance that it passed the House, Senate and President's desk, I think the courts would strike it down. If not, the Dems and turncoat Repubs would be voted out and cooler heads would prevail.

That may be the funniest thing I have read in years… not a chance the courts will strike it down, they did not strike down the 94 ban.

Even if the Dems and turncoat Repubs are voted out gun control legislation is never repealed.

I wasn't too worried about it a year ago.  Then bush shit his pants,  basically handed the country to the democrats by abandoning his base and ignoring the borders and now we're in the shit. up to our ears.