Waco Siege 20 Years Ago Remember - Page 3

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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:58:25 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If Waco happened today from 2001-2008 I'm quite certain Janet Reno would of been fired and faced criminal charges. It's amazing how much she got away with back in the 90s.

FIFY

I hope you don't really believe that.

Posted: 2/16/2013 9:05:48 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So why was Delta,DEVGRU, and the SAS there "pulling triggers"?

Never heard of devgru & SAS being there (were they even called DEVGRU at the time? Don't think so) pretty sure there were just some delta types there as advisors or something.

Delta Force was at Waco.

Commanders of Delta, Brig. General Pete Schumacher and COL Gerald Boykin to take a look at the situation and give their expert opinion on how to deal with it.

There by Delta reluctantly came in and their commanders offered an opinion that was couched in careful language that said, “… This isn’t our fight, but if it were, we would simply cut the head off the snake, (Kill Koresh and his lieutenants) and the other folks would just come out…” General Schumacher appears on video tape during his visit to Mt. Carmel in March of 1993 to observe the conditions at Mt Carmel. Delta was “ordered” to Waco by the President and that seemed to satisfy the General.

Similarly, James B. Francis, commissioner of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said "it is clear" that members of the Delta Force were on the scene. Initial reports indicated that three members were present, but Francis said he is now being told that as many as 10 were there.

"There is some evidence that might indicate that they were more than observers," Francis said. "It is fuzzy as to what their role was."

Posted: 2/16/2013 9:08:42 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
If Waco happened today I'm quite certain Janet Reno would of been fired and faced criminal charges. It's amazing how much she got away with back in the 90s.

this is a joke Right?

Posted: 2/16/2013 9:12:05 AM EDT

[#4]

The gov't says we have a bullying problem in schools...when they are the biggest bullies of them all...and they don't call you names or shove you around, they just kill your family.

Posted: 2/16/2013 10:30:06 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So why was Delta,DEVGRU, and the SAS there "pulling triggers"?

Never heard of devgru & SAS being there (were they even called DEVGRU at the time? Don't think so) pretty sure there were just some delta types there as advisors or something.

Delta Force was at Waco.

Commanders of Delta, Brig. General Pete Schumacher and COL Gerald Boykin to take a look at the situation and give their expert opinion on how to deal with it.

There by Delta reluctantly came in and their commanders offered an opinion that was couched in careful language that said, “… This isn’t our fight, but if it were, we would simply cut the head off the snake, (Kill Koresh and his lieutenants) and the other folks would just come out…” General Schumacher appears on video tape during his visit to Mt. Carmel in March of 1993 to observe the conditions at Mt Carmel. Delta was “ordered” to Waco by the President and that seemed to satisfy the General.

Similarly, James B. Francis, commissioner of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said "it is clear" that members of the Delta Force were on the scene. Initial reports indicated that three members were present, but Francis said he is now being told that as many as 10 were there.

"There is some evidence that might indicate that they were more than observers," Francis said. "It is fuzzy as to what their role was."

http://copsproductions.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/081-00126.jpg

It amazes me that there are "Conservative" radio talk show hosts that gargle Gerry Boykin's balls on a regular basis that go on and on and on about the Constitution.

Posted: 2/16/2013 10:37:53 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So why was Delta,DEVGRU, and the SAS there "pulling triggers"?

Never heard of devgru & SAS being there (were they even called DEVGRU at the time? Don't think so) pretty sure there were just some delta types there as advisors or something.

Delta was there alright. Delta's involvement has been highly minimized and at first the Clinton/Reno justice department denied the presence of any DOD personnel on site. My personal belief backed up by circumstantial evidence is Delta led an assault into the compound the day it burned down.

Why?

You would have to ask Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, or Wesley Clark why they were there. The combat application group aka Deltas presence at Waco is a fact already in evidence however. The whys I can't answer.

JTF-6. It loomed much larger back then after the end of the Cold War, and there was a lot of work done by the mil. on the border pulling triggers under joint supervision between DEA and the CoC of those units and individuals chopped out for drug interdiction missions (which I don't have a problem with-at all). BTW, SF is still on the border from what I understand.

CAG may have been there, but I have a hard time believing they were doing anything other than observing or advising. I could be wrong

There is an FBI agent who said they were there "pulling triggers".

This is correct. I believe Delta members made an assault on the compound. There are many bits and pieces of evidence that support this conclusion. Most of you are probably aware of them. There was a large number of Delta soldiers that left the Army shortly after the Waco siege. Many of these were the same soldiers that participated in the Battle of Mogadishu the previous year. Now they all own training academies on large parcels of land and enjoy generous government training contracts. What convinced me was hearing that one of these former Delta trooper who is well known in the training community state that he paid for his several thousand acre ranch in the 90's with money he earned from a single days work. His words were to the effect, "It was a very long day". I know a 20 year Army retirement isn't generous enough to pay off a several thousand acre property. Contracting pays big bucks but not that big especially in the mid 90's. So how did so many former Delta troopers get suddenly 6 or 7 figure windfalls? Add that to the evidence already out there from FBI agents, FLIR footage(Most of the FLIR experts that testified have since mysteriously died), etc. and it points pretty strongly in that direction.

I thought the Battle of Mogadishu took place in October of 1993?

Posted: 2/16/2013 10:41:53 AM EDT

[#7]

Mainstream media prob wouldn't even cover this today, just sweep it under the rug.

Posted: 2/16/2013 10:55:10 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Mainstream media prob wouldn't even cover this today, just sweep it under the rug.

Everyone involved would be a fucking hero.

"The Domestic Terrorist Organization was brought down due to valiant efforts on the parts of military and police cooperation"

Then most on arfcom would cheer because "We got them terrorists now!" and "they deserved it for shooting at the cops!"

Posted: 2/16/2013 10:56:55 AM EDT

[#9]

From what I've seen, the Arfcom policy is that any govt story is 100% true.

Anyone who questions it is an idiot, moron, etc., etc..

Posted: 2/16/2013 11:02:21 AM EDT

[#10]

Paging Pato?..Pato where are you??

Posted: 2/16/2013 11:17:12 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ignoring all of the other acts of the BATFE and the FBI, Waco was a prime example of how driving the public relations message will sway the overwhelming majority of Americans.

1. Koresh became a "cult" leader. Most people don't know that they were an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists that had been around for almost 50 years in that place. He was the current preacher in charge. Ignore the word "cult" and think about the government raiding the Seventh Day Adventists. Doesn't sound so scary, does it?

2. Koresh was running a meth lab. The BATFE told this story to get military assistance (which would be otherwise illegal). The only drugs at the place were from a lab that they found on the property years before and reported to the local law enforcement.

3. They were stockpiling ammo and guns to repel an invasion. In reality, they had an FFL and maintained inventory to sell at gun shows.

4. Koresh was molesting young girls. Whether moral or not, the local sheriff found that the relationships were with marriage and parental consent, legal in Texas.

America remembers Koresh as a cult leader and child molester.

Can you show me evidence there was ever any drugs or evidence of drugs ever on the property?
Can you show me evidence there was ever any sort of sexual misconduct of any kind lawful or unlawful?

I don't think you will be able to.

I think you missed his point...

Posted: 2/16/2013 12:01:07 PM EDT

[#12]

I thought the Battle of Mogadishu took place in October of 1993?

It did and Task Force Ranger was removed from the theater shortly afterwards. The Waco assault/fire occurred over 6 months later on April 19th, 1994.

Posted: 2/16/2013 12:23:28 PM EDT

[#13]

Gun control enforcement. Just shows you what to expect; if you don't give them up, the government will burn your family to death.

Posted: 2/16/2013 12:24:38 PM EDT

[#14]

did know mutch of the Waco, just watched the you tuibe video.... now I am just pissed off....

Posted: 2/16/2013 12:29:09 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Gun control enforcement. Just shows you what to expect; if you don't give them up, the government will burn your family to death.

Because guns are dangerous, we kick in doors and shoot people in the face.

Posted: 2/16/2013 12:40:38 PM EDT

[#16]

I was driving from Temple to Cleburne the day of raid. I saw the smoke but didn't know what the significance of it was until I got home.

Posted: 2/16/2013 12:48:26 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
From what I've seen, the Arfcom policy is that any govt story is 100% true.

Anyone who questions it is an idiot, moron, etc., etc..

Unfortunately this.

Quoted:
Gun control enforcement. Just shows you what to expect; if you don't give them up, the government will burn your family to death.

This is what we have to look forward to. When it gets to be that time, gonna have to be pro active.

Posted: 2/16/2013 1:23:18 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

I thought the Battle of Mogadishu took place in October of 1993?

It did and Task Force Ranger was removed from the theater shortly afterwards. The Waco assault/fire occurred over 6 months later on April 19th, 1994.

No, the year was 1993.

Posted: 2/16/2013 1:26:52 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

I thought the Battle of Mogadishu took place in October of 1993?

It did and Task Force Ranger was removed from the theater shortly afterwards. The Waco assault/fire occurred over 6 months later on April 19th, 1994.

Try 2/28/93 through 4/19/93.

So yeah, your theory.....not so much.

Posted: 2/16/2013 1:27:19 PM EDT

[#20]

And you have this piece of shit that was there for both Ruby Ridge and Waco...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

Posted: 2/16/2013 1:30:19 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

This is correct. I believe Delta members made an assault on the compound. There are many bits and pieces of evidence that support this conclusion. Most of you are probably aware of them. There was a large number of Delta soldiers that left the Army shortly after the Waco siege. Many of these were the same soldiers that participated in the Battle of Mogadishu the previous year. Now they all own training academies on large parcels of land and enjoy generous government training contracts. What convinced me was hearing that one of these former Delta trooper who is well known in the training community state that he paid for his several thousand acre ranch in the 90's with money he earned from a single days work. His words were to the effect, "It was a very long day". I know a 20 year Army retirement isn't generous enough to pay off a several thousand acre property. Contracting pays big bucks but not that big especially in the mid 90's. So how did so many former Delta troopers get suddenly 6 or 7 figure windfalls? Add that to the evidence already out there from FBI agents, FLIR footage(Most of the FLIR experts that testified have since mysteriously died), etc. and it points pretty strongly in that direction.

No, I'm asking why would they 'assault' the compound before setting fire to it? Do you know what assault means in military terms?

If they were there, I can see them firing their weapons in support of the other federal agents, but actually assaulting the compound? No.

Or, maybe they had to infiltrate to recover the amulet of the illuminati before torching the place!!!!

ETA: I'll also add that you guys need to understand where you're getting info from and ask the question, why?
It doesn't take much to get a guy to go on camera and talk about cool-guy stuff like they're an expert with inside info. It makes them feel important.