[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Video of a guy consistently making his Sig P320 discharge not touching the trigger (Page 3 of 3)
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Quoted: The screw is just allowing for an easier demonstration of the gun firing without full engagement of the trigger. It's just 1mm. Quoted: Quoted: My Xten has been relegated to being a range only gun at this point due to the issues. However, if you have to introduce and extra part (RE- a frigging screw) into the picture to create a malfunction, you really haven't proven anything. The screw is just allowing for an easier demonstration of the gun firing without full engagement of the trigger. It's just 1mm. I think he did this in metric just because Americans don’t know that system and it makes it sound smaller. That’s 0.040”. In mechanical terms that’s horseshoes and hand grenades levels of precision. And that isn’t total trigger pull, that’s pull past the wall. Additionally it’s measured at some random spot on the frame and some random spot on the trigger by some soyjak with his Harbor Freight digital calipers. It means nothing. Pistols with the trigger pulled, past the wall, can fire… because that’s what they are supposed to do. |
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Quoted: Lol omg. Quoted: Quoted: No he didn’t. He inserted the screw to depress the trigger—he said so himself. Lol omg. What’s so funny? He said in the video the screw was a proxy for his finger and thus depressed the trigger. The only issue is how far and what effect that actually has which really is not well determined by a random screw. |
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Quoted: So? The trigger is pulled past the wall by whatever means, finger or screw. Striker is in the slide, sear is in the frame. When sear engagement < slide/frame clearance manipulating the slide will discharge the pistol. All this proves is a P320 will fire with the trigger pulled. A gun should not fire while in a holster. However, this seems to be happening with the P320 for whatever reason. We have reports from legitimate agencies and even videos of it occurring. The question remains: Why don't we hear of the same thing occurring with a Glock, or [insert any other handgun here]? Certainly the Glocks have been out much longer, used much more and in much larger quantities than the P320. So why are we getting these reports with the P320 and not the Glock? Is it a 'vast right-wing conspiracy' against SIG? |
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Quoted: I don't expect a gun to fire in a holster. Which is the context for this entire discussion. Quoted: Quoted: Why has it never been a problem until now? It isn’t a problem now. It isn’t even surprising. It’s exactly what you would expect to happen. I don't expect a gun to fire in a holster. Which is the context for this entire discussion. What does his demonstration have to do with pistols firing in the holster? Is there a screw in the holster holding the trigger back past the wall “less than a MILLIMETER!”? I think the P320 is a dangerous turd of a gun, but can’t see how this explains a pistol firing in the holster unless something is pulling the trigger that far… at which point something was already pulling the trigger and probably just fired the pistol anyway. |
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Quoted: What’s so funny? He said in the video the screw was a proxy for his finger and thus depressed the trigger. The only issue is how far and what effect that actually has which really is not well determined by a random screw. I'm not going in circles with you. We can only go by what he says. But I'm way past that. If this is how all striker guns work I want to know why there appears to be a unique problem with the 320. |
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Quoted: What does his demonstration have to do with pistols firing in the holster? Is there a screw in the holster holding the trigger back past the wall “less than a MILLIMETER!”? I think the P320 is a dangerous turd of a gun, but can’t see how this explains a pistol firing in the holster unless something is pulling the trigger that far… at which point something was already pulling the trigger and probably just fired the pistol anyway. If nothing else I learned something new about striker fired guns. |
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Quoted: ...and you could say the same about the early issue with the P320 drop test, right? A gun should not fire while in a holster. However, this seems to be happening with the P320 for whatever reason. We have reports from legitimate agencies and even videos of it occurring. The question remains: Why don't we hear of the same thing occurring with a Glock, or [insert any other handgun here]? Certainly the Glocks have been out much longer, used much more and in much larger quantities than the P320. So why are we getting these reports with the P320 and not the Glock? Is it a 'vast right-wing conspiracy' against SIG? Quoted: Quoted: So? The trigger is pulled past the wall by whatever means, finger or screw. Striker is in the slide, sear is in the frame. When sear engagement < slide/frame clearance manipulating the slide will discharge the pistol. All this proves is a P320 will fire with the trigger pulled. A gun should not fire while in a holster. However, this seems to be happening with the P320 for whatever reason. We have reports from legitimate agencies and even videos of it occurring. The question remains: Why don't we hear of the same thing occurring with a Glock, or [insert any other handgun here]? Certainly the Glocks have been out much longer, used much more and in much larger quantities than the P320. So why are we getting these reports with the P320 and not the Glock? Is it a 'vast right-wing conspiracy' against SIG? Well, the reason you don’t hear about that with other pistols is because the P320 in particular is an unsafe piece of shit and those other pistols are not. That’s not because if you pull the trigger almost all the way and then wiggle the slide you can make it fire. That’s not particular to the P320. |
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Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOMQOtOQoPk I don't know anything about the new Sigs. I use an old Sig P220 and a Sig P226. I don't know if the unwanted discharges are from a bad design, or bad manufacturing tolerances or a combination; and then finally is this just occasional discharges by a few handguns are is it a wide systemic issue. When an item is mass produced there are always variations in tolerances, form and fit, and there always needs to be good quality control inspections of items (components and fully assembled) to insure they all meet manufacturing quality specifications. It is very alarming to see this happening, and it seems to point to an insufficient amount of testing or insufficient test coverage by Sig. It definitely warrants a design review and a recall. It may also warrant an entire review of quality control processes. When something is engineered, there is normally a safety factor engineered into it. (For example the maximum load on a bridge might be 50 tons, however the bridge will have a safety factor of 30 percent where the bridge can actually withstand a load of 65 tons) That dudes crazy. Sig will kill him. |
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The only thing I can add is that I watched the video frame by frame and saw the muzzle flash, but there was zero slide movement. Did he address why they slide didn't slide? I know he was holding on to it, but I've witnessed someone shooting with their thumb up behind the slide, and it hit his thumb with enough force to give him a pretty good sprain. It was purple for weeks. I didn't watch the whole video, so maybe I just missed it. ETA......I'm not calling the video a fake. I imagine you'd have to be an idiot to fake such a thing and risk being sued. |
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Quoted: The only thing I can add is that I watched the video frame by frame and saw the muzzle flash, but there was zero slide movement. Did he address why they slide didn't slide? I know he was holding on to it, but I've witnessed someone shooting with their thumb up behind the slide, and it hit his thumb with enough force to give him a pretty good sprain. It was purple for weeks. I didn't watch the whole video, so maybe I just missed it. ETA......I'm not calling the video a fake. I imagine you'd have to be an idiot to fake such a thing and risk being sued. It’s a primed case. No bullet, no powder. Another clever mechanical trick is that on locked-breech pistols if you put your thumb directly on the back of the slide it doesn’t cycle because it forces the slide and frame to recoil together. It never unlocks, the slide never gains velocity independent of the frame, and you’re left with a fired case still in the chamber and no damage to your thumb. It makes for a fun party trick. |
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Running a machine screw through a tapped hole in the trigger guard someone could work out with turns and pitch the window of trigger pull |
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Just watched some more of the vid, with sound on and got a good feel of what he's doing and had a look at the exploded view. 1) That dude is a weenie and obnoxious 2) His gun handling is atrocious and having a primed case in the mix when you're constantly muzzling your hand is asking for a nice burn 3) He keeps talking about a mm. That mm is very near the pivot pin of the trigger and is causing quite a bit of trigger travel. It's kind of a dumb metric because, apparently it's pulling the trigger far enough to disengage the FP safety as well as disengage the sear far enough that the slide to frame fit tolerance is overcoming the sear engagement that's left. He made it sound as if the trigger was only pulled 1mm which is false. 4) That dude is a weenie, and obnoxious using typical youtube exaggeration, lies, half truths to get clicks. 5) If you're going to do a diagnostic video, spring for a fucking set of gauge pins, not a fucking used wood screw. The only thing that could be deduced from such a test is, MAYBE that surface which stops the trigger is a potential point of crud getting in and causing an issue. MAYBE the sear/striker engagement as it relates to potential slide/frame tolerance could be causing an issue. 6) That exploded view  Did the engineers set a goal to see how many parts they could use? 7) It seems that designs such as this (having a striker fully cocked) are an attempt at better trigger pulls than Glock (or other pistols where the trigger pull is cocking the striker). It complicates the mechanism in pursuit of a lesser important aspect of the pistol and generally necessitates a smaller engagement of the sear with the striker, hence one potential possibility for the issue being seen in the 320. |
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Quoted: In before Sig is like “We are aware of a video circulating on social media demonstrating unsafe handling of our firearm followed by malfunctions. We are seeking legal remedies up to and including injunctions against the libelous parties!” SIG lawyers are busy these days. Job security. |
