Uck. Having to fire someone is not fun. - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Uck. Having to fire someone is not fun. (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:09:32 PM EDT

[#1]

'Pour encourage les autres' (to encourage the others).

Not a bad thing to think about, most people are annoyed by co-workers who are unproductive and lazy. Firing them reinforces that you are a good manager and care about the company, also makes disciplining the remaining employees easier (as they know you are serious.)

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:10:08 PM EDT

[#2]

What a sucky christmas.

j/k

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:10:25 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
errr isnt the job of university to teach

Professors are there to profess their knowledge, not teach.

Also to wear tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:13:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
errr isnt the job of university to teach

Professors are there to profess their knowledge, not teach.

Also to wear tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows

What about a leather jacket with tweed patches on the elbows?

<Marge> Homer, you ruined a perfectly good jacket! </Marge>
<Homer> Correction! I ruined TWO perfectly good jackets! </Homer>

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:14:42 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
errr isnt the job of university to teach

Professors are there to profess their knowledge, not teach.

Also to wear tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows

What about a leather jacket with tweed patches on the elbows?

<Marge> Homer, you ruined a perfectly good jacket! </Marge>
<Homer> Correction! I ruined TWO perfectly good jackets! </Homer>

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:24:09 PM EDT

[#6]

You are releasing him to go find his true calling.

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:27:25 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
A faculty in our area is in his 4th year which is the do-or-die year for tenure. He's a nice guy, is absolutely brilliant in his field, but he just can't teach.

He's had recurring problems since he's been here (high attrition rates, lack of classroom management, aloof attitude regarding student performance). He's been evaluated by me and our Dean each semester and repeatedly has been given in writing recommendations for mentoring and addressing specific areas for improvement which have been very minimally addressed by him. Plus he's just plain weird - can't have a "normal" conversation with him EVER. It's like talking to someone who's trying hard to be someone he's not. And students pick up on it and avoid his classes like the plague.

So..... after meeting with our Dean we're in agreement - he's going to be "encouraged" to begin seeking employment someplace else.

But he's a nice guy, not a jerk or offensive. Not the kind of person you feel good about letting go. But you gotta do it.

Sigh.

Why would you keep a bad teacher for 4 years? So you and the dean let 100s of the students suffer because ??? Sounds like the three of you need to be given your walking papers, but you two are tenured.

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:52:58 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
A faculty in our area is in his 4th year which is the do-or-die year for tenure. He's a nice guy, is absolutely brilliant in his field, but he just can't teach.

He's had recurring problems since he's been here (high attrition rates, lack of classroom management, aloof attitude regarding student performance). He's been evaluated by me and our Dean each semester and repeatedly has been given in writing recommendations for mentoring and addressing specific areas for improvement which have been very minimally addressed by him. Plus he's just plain weird - can't have a "normal" conversation with him EVER. It's like talking to someone who's trying hard to be someone he's not. And students pick up on it and avoid his classes like the plague.

So..... after meeting with our Dean we're in agreement - he's going to be "encouraged" to begin seeking employment someplace else.

But he's a nice guy, not a jerk or offensive. Not the kind of person you feel good about letting go. But you gotta do it.

Sigh.

Sounds like he'd be better off (and happier) at a research-oriented university than a teaching university anyway.

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:03:40 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
errr isnt the job of university to teach

Professors are there to profess their knowledge, not teach.

Also to wear tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows

still waiting for video of DK-Prof giving "The Deadly Pipestem Gesture." That would rock.

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:04:56 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Ask him if he likes knock knock jokes

then say

"knock knock"

he will say "whos there"

you will reply

"your fuckin fired!"

Knock knock

Who's there?

Not you anymore!

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:10:25 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If he's a teacher and cannot teach, he needs to go.

omg what is he going to do then??

they say.. if you cannot do then teach.. if he cant teach well he's screwed!

he has three choices:
1. become a competent teacher
2. become competent at something else
3. fucking starve to death

Ever fire someone?

Yes, several times, including one of my best buddies in college who worked for me. It is not fun. However, an employer is not a welfare agency, and people who cannot meet the standard do not have a right to a job that someone else can do and do better.

I don't fire people randomly to scare others into submission; if I have given up and recommended terminating someone, that someone has well and truly earned it by either being unable or unwilling to perform the job correctly. Better to move them out smartly and let it be a wake-up call that they need to (a) go into a different career or (b) reset their headspace and timing.

I wish this guy the best of luck, but the only thing worse than firing a teacher who cannot teach is to subject students to a teacher who cannot teach.

Posted: 12/4/2007 6:05:53 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
'Pour encourage les autres' (to encourage the others).

Not a bad thing to think about, most people are annoyed by co-workers who are unproductive and lazy. Firing them reinforces that you are a good manager and care about the company, also makes disciplining the remaining employees easier (as they know you are serious.)

Unfortunately, most managers confuse a lack of candor with professionalism and refuse to talk about a termination with the rest of the company.

The right thing is to be candid about it - not embellish or start a smear campaign, but be up front and completely candid about why someone was asked to leave the organization.

The people who aren't a good fit are just that - not a good fit. No sense keeping them in a position where they can't perform well. It's best for both parties to help them move on so they can hopefully find an organization where they can perform.

Posted: 12/4/2007 6:27:51 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If he's a teacher and cannot teach, he needs to go.

omg what is he going to do then??

they say.. if you cannot do then teach.. if he cant teach well he's screwed!

Management/Administration :-)

Posted: 12/4/2007 6:39:45 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A faculty in our area is in his 4th year which is the do-or-die year for tenure. He's a nice guy, is absolutely brilliant in his field, but he just can't teach.

He's had recurring problems since he's been here (high attrition rates, lack of classroom management, aloof attitude regarding student performance). He's been evaluated by me and our Dean each semester and repeatedly has been given in writing recommendations for mentoring and addressing specific areas for improvement which have been very minimally addressed by him. Plus he's just plain weird - can't have a "normal" conversation with him EVER. It's like talking to someone who's trying hard to be someone he's not. And students pick up on it and avoid his classes like the plague.

So..... after meeting with our Dean we're in agreement - he's going to be "encouraged" to begin seeking employment someplace else.

But he's a nice guy, not a jerk or offensive. Not the kind of person you feel good about letting go. But you gotta do it.

Sigh.

Why would you keep a bad teacher for 4 years? So you and the dean let 100s of the students suffer because ??? Sounds like the three of you need to be given your walking papers, but you two are tenured.

Read much?

He hasn't been teaching for 4 years - he just started his 4th year and he's being let go.

Last year he was given written notice (in the 3rd year) of what needed to be improved for the present year and the consequences of not showing satisfactory improvement.

That written notice was based on one rookie year (with mentoring and evaluations) to help him get established and then subsequent follow-up semesters of evaluations based on the recommendations when he finished his mentored period.

Teaching is a skill that 99% of people are incapable of doing well right out of the chute. Mentoring means he gets support so the students don't suffer during the first couple of semesters. After that - he needs to perform as expected on his own. Last year he didn't and was put on notice.

Armchair faculty.

Posted: 12/4/2007 6:45:31 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ask him if he likes knock knock jokes

then say

"knock knock"

he will say "whos there"

you will reply

"your fuckin fired!"

Knock knock

Who's there?

Not you anymore!

Posted: 12/4/2007 6:49:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Ultimately when it becomes necessary to seperate an individual the initial feeling is one of doom and sadness. However, it must be remembered in a case such as you pose it is the individual who has brought this upon himself. He was not and is not living up to his end of a business arrangement. The problem lies in the high morality of the dean and yourself having feelings where to be frank, they do not belong. Seperate yourself from the emotional content and the picture is quite a bit clearer. The replacement will offer a better learning environemt and greater satisfaction all around. Look ahead!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Uck. Having to fire someone is not fun. (Page 2 of 2)

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