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Posted: 9/26/2018 6:14:44 PM EDT
Amazing how the USAF is doing what the Army won't.
https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4771656/2018-air-force-defender-challenge
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:17:26 PM EDT
[#1]
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:17:45 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
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They're mimicing SOCOM and going URGI.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:18:58 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:

They're mimicing SOCOM and going URGI.
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Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:19:20 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
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Found the larue fan boy
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:21:57 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

They're mimicing SOCOM and going URGI.
Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:21:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:23:04 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
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My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:23:05 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
View Quote
There's literally one product from Magpul in that picture.  You don't have much experience with ARs, do you?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:23:43 PM EDT
[#9]
I see a mawl and leup mk6 on an urgi? Maybe a reapir in there too?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:24:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.
They're also wanting to upgrade (and it appears they're now testing) a bunch of new accessories as well.  LPVO, updated WMLs, BE Meyers MAWL, etc.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:27:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:30:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

https://i.imgur.com/MQ0go85.jpg
View Quote
What Col Sanders gonna do with a thumper?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:32:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They're also wanting to upgrade (and it appears they're now testing) a bunch of new accessories as well.  LPVO, updated WMLs, BE Meyers MAWL, etc.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.
They're also wanting to upgrade (and it appears they're now testing) a bunch of new accessories as well.  LPVO, updated WMLs, BE Meyers MAWL, etc.
I read something about a new coating for BCGs for SOCOM as well. Seems like the USAF is going in the right direction. Army should follow whatever SOCOM does. USMC should as well. M27 seems to function just fine but is an awkward jack of all trades gun. Heavy for a carbine, accurate but not that accurate for the weight, and not all that special for volume of fire. Oh well, maybe the Army will still go this route.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:33:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I read something about a new coating for BCGs for SOCOM as well. Seems like the USAF is going in the right direction. Army should follow whatever SOCOM does. USMC should as well. M27 seems to function just fine but is an awkward jack of all trades gun. Heavy for a carbine, accurate but not that accurate for the weight, and not all that special for volume of fire. Oh well, maybe the Army will still go this route.
View Quote
Hopefully the Army takes their head out of their asses and dumps the NGSAR and hops onboard the SOCOM/USAF train.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:38:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Lol there’s like 87 dudes in the airforce the carry rifles anyway.

In reality all these slick upgrades and replacements don’t mean shit until the army unfucks it’s rifle qual and complete and utter lack of marksmanship training.

The overwhelmingly large majority of the army only shoots 60 rounds a year if they even qual once a year.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:42:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Not amazing.
USAF has always been all about try to have the latest and greatest tech - always upgrade and look forward.
Didn't the USAF initially buy the M16 before the Army?  I guess the Army is still comfortable following their lead.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:47:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

https://i.imgur.com/MQ0go85.jpg
View Quote
My dad would have loved that upgrade!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:47:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.
View Quote
Same barrel profile, they requested govt. However mid gas, DD barrel with G rail, 3 prong flash hider. BCG coating is speculated.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 6:52:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.
View Quote
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:26:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Some pictures from the July 2018 USAF Security Forces Worldwide Symposium where weapons upgrades/improvements and timelines were discussed.























Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:33:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:38:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?
View Quote
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:38:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

https://i.imgur.com/MQ0go85.jpg
View Quote
I want one of those, badly.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:43:24 PM EDT
[#24]
so theyre gertting urgi's?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:43:57 PM EDT
[#25]
So still M4 with a few different rails or free-floated? That M79 is sweet by the way
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:49:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol there’s like 87 dudes in the airforce the carry rifles anyway.

In reality all these slick upgrades and replacements don’t mean shit until the army unfucks it’s rifle qual and complete and utter lack of marksmanship training.

The overwhelmingly large majority of the army only shoots 60 rounds a year if they even qual once a year.
View Quote
Come on man, you know better; there are 30,000 active and reserve security forces and each will receive IMR Blue. I understand our mission doesn't intersect with our Army and Marine the brethren, but BG Tullos has made clear we're moving on from the M4 and concepts that had troops in LP/OPs - see the remotely operated GAU above - rapid packed in a Garrett container and deployed quickly. Maybe it's because she's married to an Army guy.  
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:57:23 PM EDT
[#27]
We just got new M4's.

Sooo.... When I retire in a while (long while) we will have brown shit on them that's not rust.

Sweet.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:57:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol there’s like 87 dudes in the airforce the carry rifles anyway.

In reality all these slick upgrades and replacements don’t mean shit until the army unfucks it’s rifle qual and complete and utter lack of marksmanship training.

The overwhelmingly large majority of the army only shoots 60 rounds a year if they even qual once a year.
View Quote
One branch is following SOCOM’s lead while the other is in la-la land with the IAR.

Back to your regularly scheduled crayon eating.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:58:55 PM EDT
[#29]
This makes me happy.

My fingerprints all over this.

Ask me anything

S/F
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 7:58:58 PM EDT
[#30]
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:00:22 PM EDT
[#31]
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:02:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there
id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued

Quoted:
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.
the garand wasnt broken, maybe we should go back to those.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:02:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.
View Quote
The Garand isn't broken either. Time goes on advancements are found and should be adopted. This is the right call by the USAF
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:02:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Vortex optic?.....interesting
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:03:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there
id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued
Same. Maybe one day the USMC can get past the M27 mess too?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:04:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Vortex optic?.....interesting
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vortex razors have been in use for a while now.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:09:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there
View Quote
Will never happen. US Army G8 has, and I quote, "No interest in M4A1+ [or similar modifications]". They want to sit around until NGSW-Carbine becomes a thing, which is pretty damn criminal and lazy, seeing as how it'll sit there as vaporware for years until they downgrade requirements until industry can actually do it.

It's sad, but soldiers in the conventional Army truly do not have any voice, nor do their proponents.

S/F
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:10:10 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
How many infantryman does the AF have vs the Army.

It's not really a question.
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Doesn't matter.
Looks like the AF will have better rifles because they took action instead of all talk.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:10:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued
View Quote
Will never happen. See previous post.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:10:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Vortex optic?.....interesting
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When I spoke with the troops at the symposium they said the Vortex was a placeholder awaiting the new NF.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:11:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Will never happen. See previous post.
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so the majority will be stuck with early 2000s tech forever?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:11:18 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.
I'm excited as fuck to hear @mtbrass rationale behind his comments.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:12:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Garand isn't broken either. Time goes on advancements are found and should be adopted. This is the right call by the USAF
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.
The Garand isn't broken either. Time goes on advancements are found and should be adopted. This is the right call by the USAF
Pretty much. Stock M4s can't reliably hit realistic form factor targets across all positions and means of support much past 60M.

In this day and age, a non floated AR is antiquated and to continue using one in many cases is lunacy.

S/F
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:12:42 PM EDT
[#44]
All the better to guard airplanes with
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:13:05 PM EDT
[#45]
I figured they would still have A1s.

When I went to Afghanistan in 2002 the AF personnel had M16A1s.  They thought our M4s with M68s and PAQ-4C/PEQ-2As were something they should have and we laughed.  What they had looked adequate for what they were doing in my book.

Nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:13:34 PM EDT
[#46]
The graphic implies a M4 has a performance of of 20" @100 meters/109 yards, (Presumably using ball ammo)..?   Is this an realistic comparison of performance?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:13:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Vortex optic?.....interesting
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That was my optic (and upper. Two of them, actually) in the picture. I had to use that one because the Nightforce ATACR or NX8 wasn't available at the time. On the side you can see my MIL holds for Mk262 Mod 1.

S/F
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:16:35 PM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:
All the better to guard airplanes with
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Airplanes worth tens to hundreds of millions each?  Seems like a decent investment.

How about nuclear weapons?  Should we use modern tools to defend those?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:17:09 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:
This makes me happy.

My fingerprints all over this.

Ask me anything

S/F
View Quote
Is there any indication the USAF gats will have the Geissele high speed selector? Or an upgraded trigger of any type?

Also, will their guns use bolts with a new coating, possibly the Picatiny DSL coating?
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 8:18:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I figured they would still have A1s.

When I went to Afghanistan in 2002 the AF personnel had M16A1s.  They thought our M4s with M68s and PAQ-4C/PEQ-2As were something they should have and we laughed.  What they had looked adequate for what they were doing in my book.

Nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.
View Quote
That depends.  On the flight line we recently switched from 20” M16s to M4s.  It’s kind of nice because the last thing I need trying to work on a jet is a longer rifle,
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