USAF M4 upgrades spotted. - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - USAF M4 upgrades spotted. (Page 1 of 6)

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:14:44 PM EST

Amazing how the USAF is doing what the Army won't.
https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4771656/2018-air-force-defender-challenge

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:17:26 PM EST

[#1]

I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:17:45 PM EST

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

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They're mimicing SOCOM and going URGI.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:18:58 PM EST

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

They're mimicing SOCOM and going URGI.

View Quote

Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:19:20 PM EST

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

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Found the larue fan boy

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:21:57 PM EST

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

They're mimicing SOCOM and going URGI.

Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:21:58 PM EST

[#6]

Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:23:04 PM EST

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

View Quote

My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:23:05 PM EST

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

View Quote

There's literally one product from Magpul in that picture. You don't have much experience with ARs, do you?

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:23:43 PM EST

[#9]

I see a mawl and leup mk6 on an urgi? Maybe a reapir in there too?

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:24:35 PM EST

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.

They're also wanting to upgrade (and it appears they're now testing) a bunch of new accessories as well. LPVO, updated WMLs, BE Meyers MAWL, etc.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:27:13 PM EST

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

View Quote

I see G rails and a B5 bravo stock, what “colored Magpul shit” are you seeing besides a PMag?

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:30:52 PM EST

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

https://i.imgur.com/MQ0go85.jpg

View Quote

What Col Sanders gonna do with a thumper?

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:32:13 PM EST

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
They're also wanting to upgrade (and it appears they're now testing) a bunch of new accessories as well. LPVO, updated WMLs, BE Meyers MAWL, etc.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.

They're also wanting to upgrade (and it appears they're now testing) a bunch of new accessories as well. LPVO, updated WMLs, BE Meyers MAWL, etc.

I read something about a new coating for BCGs for SOCOM as well. Seems like the USAF is going in the right direction. Army should follow whatever SOCOM does. USMC should as well. M27 seems to function just fine but is an awkward jack of all trades gun. Heavy for a carbine, accurate but not that accurate for the weight, and not all that special for volume of fire. Oh well, maybe the Army will still go this route.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:33:15 PM EST

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

I read something about a new coating for BCGs for SOCOM as well. Seems like the USAF is going in the right direction. Army should follow whatever SOCOM does. USMC should as well. M27 seems to function just fine but is an awkward jack of all trades gun. Heavy for a carbine, accurate but not that accurate for the weight, and not all that special for volume of fire. Oh well, maybe the Army will still go this route.

View Quote

Hopefully the Army takes their head out of their asses and dumps the NGSAR and hops onboard the SOCOM/USAF train.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:38:02 PM EST

[#15]

Lol there’s like 87 dudes in the airforce the carry rifles anyway.

In reality all these slick upgrades and replacements don’t mean shit until the army unfucks it’s rifle qual and complete and utter lack of marksmanship training.

The overwhelmingly large majority of the army only shoots 60 rounds a year if they even qual once a year.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:42:27 PM EST

[#16]

Quoted:
Amazing how the USAF is doing what the Army won't.
https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4771656/2018-air-force-defender-challenge
https://cdn.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/1809/4771656/1000w_q95.jpg

View Quote

Not amazing.
USAF has always been all about try to have the latest and greatest tech - always upgrade and look forward.
Didn't the USAF initially buy the M16 before the Army? I guess the Army is still comfortable following their lead.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:47:47 PM EST

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

https://i.imgur.com/MQ0go85.jpg

View Quote

My dad would have loved that upgrade!!

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:47:58 PM EST

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

My understanding. Better barrel profile, gas system, free floating barrel, possibly lighter weight due to the rail and barrel profile.

A decent upgrade and is more or less what SOCOM is upgrading their M4s to.

View Quote

Same barrel profile, they requested govt. However mid gas, DD barrel with G rail, 3 prong flash hider. BCG coating is speculated.

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:52:45 PM EST

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.

View Quote

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:26:32 PM EST

[#20]

Some pictures from the July 2018 USAF Security Forces Worldwide Symposium where weapons upgrades/improvements and timelines were discussed.

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:33:27 PM EST

[#21]

How many infantryman does the AF have vs the Army.

It's not really a question.

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:38:25 PM EST

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see colored Magpul shit, what are the upgrades? the rails?

View Quote

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:38:37 PM EST

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here is one of the pics from the link

I like the upgrades myself.

https://i.imgur.com/MQ0go85.jpg

View Quote

I want one of those, badly.

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:43:24 PM EST

[#24]

so theyre gertting urgi's?

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:43:57 PM EST

[#25]

So still M4 with a few different rails or free-floated? That M79 is sweet by the way

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:49:18 PM EST

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol there’s like 87 dudes in the airforce the carry rifles anyway.

In reality all these slick upgrades and replacements don’t mean shit until the army unfucks it’s rifle qual and complete and utter lack of marksmanship training.

The overwhelmingly large majority of the army only shoots 60 rounds a year if they even qual once a year.

View Quote

Come on man, you know better; there are 30,000 active and reserve security forces and each will receive IMR Blue. I understand our mission doesn't intersect with our Army and Marine the brethren, but BG Tullos has made clear we're moving on from the M4 and concepts that had troops in LP/OPs - see the remotely operated GAU above - rapid packed in a Garrett container and deployed quickly. Maybe it's because she's married to an Army guy.

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:57:23 PM EST

[#27]

We just got new M4's.

Sooo.... When I retire in a while (long while) we will have brown shit on them that's not rust.

Sweet.

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:57:48 PM EST

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol there’s like 87 dudes in the airforce the carry rifles anyway.

In reality all these slick upgrades and replacements don’t mean shit until the army unfucks it’s rifle qual and complete and utter lack of marksmanship training.

The overwhelmingly large majority of the army only shoots 60 rounds a year if they even qual once a year.

View Quote

One branch is following SOCOM’s lead while the other is in la-la land with the IAR.

Back to your regularly scheduled crayon eating.

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:58:55 PM EST

[#29]

This makes me happy.

My fingerprints all over this.

Ask me anything

S/F

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:58:58 PM EST

[#30]

This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:00:22 PM EST

[#31]

The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:02:06 PM EST

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there

id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued

Quoted:
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.

the garand wasnt broken, maybe we should go back to those.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:02:07 PM EST

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.

View Quote

The Garand isn't broken either. Time goes on advancements are found and should be adopted. This is the right call by the USAF

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:02:43 PM EST

[#34]

Vortex optic?.....interesting

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:03:10 PM EST

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there

id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued

Same. Maybe one day the USMC can get past the M27 mess too?

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:04:16 PM EST

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Vortex optic?.....interesting

View Quote

vortex razors have been in use for a while now.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:09:16 PM EST

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is awesome news. I wish big Army could join suit but due to cost (how many rifles would need to be overhauled) combined with a history of bad decision making in this niche sector, I don't see it happening. I hope it does though. While the M4 RAS still works great it is dated, and USASOC testing of the midlength gas system proves its superiority in barrel longevity, as does CHF. Plus Mk16 rail. You can't go wrong there

View Quote

Will never happen. US Army G8 has, and I quote, "No interest in M4A1+ [or similar modifications]". They want to sit around until NGSW-Carbine becomes a thing, which is pretty damn criminal and lazy, seeing as how it'll sit there as vaporware for years until they downgrade requirements until industry can actually do it.

It's sad, but soldiers in the conventional Army truly do not have any voice, nor do their proponents.

S/F

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:10:10 PM EST

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
How many infantryman does the AF have vs the Army.

It's not really a question.

View Quote

Doesn't matter.
Looks like the AF will have better rifles because they took action instead of all talk.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:10:33 PM EST

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

id love to see the URG-I be widespread issued

View Quote

Will never happen. See previous post.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:10:40 PM EST

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Vortex optic?.....interesting

View Quote

When I spoke with the troops at the symposium they said the Vortex was a placeholder awaiting the new NF.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:11:11 PM EST

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:

Will never happen. See previous post.

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so the majority will be stuck with early 2000s tech forever?

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:11:18 PM EST

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Not an upgrade, they went shopping at Cabela's.

I'm excited as fuck to hear @mtbrass rationale behind his comments.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:12:09 PM EST

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
The Garand isn't broken either. Time goes on advancements are found and should be adopted. This is the right call by the USAF

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
The M4 isn’t broken. This is all superfluous.

The Garand isn't broken either. Time goes on advancements are found and should be adopted. This is the right call by the USAF

Pretty much. Stock M4s can't reliably hit realistic form factor targets across all positions and means of support much past 60M.

In this day and age, a non floated AR is antiquated and to continue using one in many cases is lunacy.

S/F

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:12:42 PM EST

[#44]

All the better to guard airplanes with

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:13:05 PM EST

[#45]

I figured they would still have A1s.

When I went to Afghanistan in 2002 the AF personnel had M16A1s. They thought our M4s with M68s and PAQ-4C/PEQ-2As were something they should have and we laughed. What they had looked adequate for what they were doing in my book.

Nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:13:34 PM EST

[#46]

The graphic implies a M4 has a performance of of 20" @100 meters/109 yards, (Presumably using ball ammo)..? Is this an realistic comparison of performance?

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:13:38 PM EST

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Vortex optic?.....interesting

View Quote

That was my optic (and upper. Two of them, actually) in the picture. I had to use that one because the Nightforce ATACR or NX8 wasn't available at the time. On the side you can see my MIL holds for Mk262 Mod 1.

S/F

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:16:35 PM EST

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
All the better to guard airplanes with

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Airplanes worth tens to hundreds of millions each? Seems like a decent investment.

How about nuclear weapons? Should we use modern tools to defend those?

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:17:09 PM EST

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
This makes me happy.

My fingerprints all over this.

Ask me anything

S/F

View Quote

Is there any indication the USAF gats will have the Geissele high speed selector? Or an upgraded trigger of any type?

Also, will their guns use bolts with a new coating, possibly the Picatiny DSL coating?

Posted: 9/26/2018 7:18:09 PM EST

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
I figured they would still have A1s.

When I went to Afghanistan in 2002 the AF personnel had M16A1s. They thought our M4s with M68s and PAQ-4C/PEQ-2As were something they should have and we laughed. What they had looked adequate for what they were doing in my book.

Nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.

View Quote

That depends. On the flight line we recently switched from 20” M16s to M4s. It’s kind of nice because the last thing I need trying to work on a jet is a longer rifle,

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - USAF M4 upgrades spotted. (Page 1 of 6)

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