Quoted:


I believe that line was drawn she he sold a gun he did not yet own supposing that's what truly happened.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Quoted:

It seemed to me he was just a hobby collector.

Quoted:
Old Story.

Another guy who thought he had nothing to hide and forgot to STFU and convicted himself.
 

Quoted:
Since when it is it illegal to sell firearms you don't want to keep? Seriously- how are they defining his actions as being a dealer? Because he used "gunbroker"?

Quoted:


I'm not done.

Quoted:


I'd need to see his asking and purchase price for the others but the Glock is a slam dunk.  He used a discount (similar to how wholesalers sell to dealers at lower prices) in order to make a profit on the purchase and sale of a firearm.  

Quoted:


So what?  Quote the relevant Federal code that says if you sell a firearm/s and make a profit, you have to be an FFL.

Quoted:
You can stretch your imagination all you want but there's not much doubt in my mind, and I'm assuming at least 12 others, that the FBI agent was buying and selling guns to make a profit.

The whole lost transcript thing just sounds like a distraction.  

Quoted:


have you looked into how much "profit" was made from the sale of those guns?

Quoted:


18 usc 921

(13) The term "collector" means any person who acquires, holds,

or disposes of firearms as curios or relics, as the Attorney

General shall by regulation define, and the term "licensed

collector" means any such person licensed under the provisions of

this chapter.



so, because I don't acquire, hold or dispose of firearms as C&R's, i'm not a collector



18 usc 921

(11) The term "dealer" means (A) any person engaged in the

business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B) any person

engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or

fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms,

or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term "licensed dealer"

means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this

chapter.



So If I make stocks for guns for a living, then I'm a dealer



18 USC 921

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means -



(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who

devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a

regular course of trade or business with the principal objective

of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the

firearms manufactured;



(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who

devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as

a regular course of trade or business with the principal

objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or

distribution of the ammunition manufactured;



(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section

921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to

dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with

the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the

repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall

not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or

purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal

collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his

personal collection of firearms;



(D) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section

921(a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to

engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or

business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit,

but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional

repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels,

stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;



Further,

18 USC 921

(22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and

profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of

firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary

gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating

a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit

shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and

repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal

purposes or terrorism.

Quoted:
http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/facts.php


John went and spoke to the Judge in his chambers and relayed the facts to the Judge. The Judge called the prosecutor and asked why the agent was saying the defendant was innocent and the prosecutor was authorizing prosecution. John feels that this embarrassed the prosecutor. The prosecutor dropped all charges and the passenger was released. If you Google "John Shipley FBI" you will see information on this case. John felt bad for arresting her when she was actually innocent. She felt indebted to John because he did what was right.

A few years ago, someone made an allegation that John accepted money from her. There was a criminal investigation conducted by the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General (DOJ/OIG). After they figured out that John didn't accept money from her, they changed the investigation to an administrative investigation and accused him of perjury. I think they were trying to get him on anything they could. John cooperated with their investigation and we are still waiting to hear the results of the administrative investigation. Sometime in 2007, John legally sold a rifle from his personal firearms collection to an El Paso Deputy Sheriff. He was later contacted by the ATF who said they recovered the gun in Mexico. John offered to help and provided information about that gun and who he sold it to. The next thing we know, the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General and the ATF had a search warrant for the Shipley house (May of 2008). They seized 28 guns from the house. Nine of the guns were John's grandfather's old guns that were passed down to John. At the time that the search warrant was served, John was accused of dealing firearms without a license, conspiracy, false statements and obstruction of justice. Then in June of 2009, the Assistant United States Attorney in El Paso brought this before the Federal Grand Jury and John was indicted for dealing firearms without a license, causing a federal firearms license holder to have false records and false statements. John is innocent of these charges.

Here is what is interesting.

The Assistant United States Attorney's office for the Western District of Texas is the same one who went after the two Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Compean.
The DOJ/OIG agent was the same for the first criminal investigation, the administrative investigation and the criminal gun case.
The DOJ/OIG agent also wrote the search warrant (not ATF).
We feel this is clearly retaliation against John for telling the truth in the Southwest Airlines case.


From the link above....my iPad resists quotes.

Quoted:
I don't think anyone here can actually cite what he did wrong. I don't think he did anything wrong. I think this is just another bullshit case the government created as "precedence" to now say that anyone who sold a couple guns from their personal collection is somehow "dealing". Maybe he ordered the Glock- changed his mind. Other than that- what exactly did he do wrong?

Quoted:


He was assembling SBRs at work/in the office without the correct paperwork.

Quoted:

He was assembling SBRs at work/in the office without the correct paperwork.

Quoted:


is that from the indictment?

Quoted:


There was no mention of anything manufacturing or NFA related in the indictment or any of the other documents that I have seen. The only reference to any NFA firearms that I recall was the .30 suppressor that was forfeited with the rest of his collection.

I would love to hear where he heard about that.

Quoted:


He was assembling SBRs at work/in the office without the correct paperwork.

Quoted:


I'm not done.

Quoted:


Do you ever worry about getting Vince Fostered?

Regardless of whether or not Shipley was guilty, the overt evidence "mishandling" is enough to create a good degree of reasonable doubt.

I wouldn't convict.

Quoted:
http://www.shipleylegalfund.com/facts.php


John went and spoke to the Judge in his chambers and relayed the facts to the Judge. The Judge called the prosecutor and asked why the agent was saying the defendant was innocent and the prosecutor was authorizing prosecution. John feels that this embarrassed the prosecutor. The prosecutor dropped all charges and the passenger was released. If you Google "John Shipley FBI" you will see information on this case. John felt bad for arresting her when she was actually innocent. She felt indebted to John because he did what was right.

A few years ago, someone made an allegation that John accepted money from her. There was a criminal investigation conducted by the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General (DOJ/OIG). After they figured out that John didn't accept money from her, they changed the investigation to an administrative investigation and accused him of perjury. I think they were trying to get him on anything they could. John cooperated with their investigation and we are still waiting to hear the results of the administrative investigation. Sometime in 2007, John legally sold a rifle from his personal firearms collection to an El Paso Deputy Sheriff. He was later contacted by the ATF who said they recovered the gun in Mexico. John offered to help and provided information about that gun and who he sold it to. The next thing we know, the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General and the ATF had a search warrant for the Shipley house (May of 2008). They seized 28 guns from the house. Nine of the guns were John's grandfather's old guns that were passed down to John. At the time that the search warrant was served, John was accused of dealing firearms without a license, conspiracy, false statements and obstruction of justice. Then in June of 2009, the Assistant United States Attorney in El Paso brought this before the Federal Grand Jury and John was indicted for dealing firearms without a license, causing a federal firearms license holder to have false records and false statements. John is innocent of these charges.

Here is what is interesting.

The Assistant United States Attorney's office for the Western District of Texas is the same one who went after the two Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Compean.
The DOJ/OIG agent was the same for the first criminal investigation, the administrative investigation and the criminal gun case.
The DOJ/OIG agent also wrote the search warrant (not ATF).
We feel this is clearly retaliation against John for telling the truth in the Southwest Airlines case.


From the link above....my iPad resists quotes.

Quoted:


this.

also, i'm going to pull his appeal later when i get some time

Quoted:


Do you ever worry about getting Vince Fostered?

Regardless of whether or not Shipley was guilty, the overt evidence "mishandling" is enough to create a good degree of reasonable doubt.

I wouldn't convict.

Quoted:
Always Think Forfeiture

MOTION FOR FINDING OF NEXUS BETWEEN THE OFFENSE OF CONVICTION AND THE PROPERTY NOTICED IN GOVERNMENT’S DEMAND FOR FORFEITURE
TO THE HONORABLE JUDGE OF SAID COURT:

Comes now the United States of America, plaintiff, by and through the United States
Attorney for the Western District of Texas and the undersigned Assistant United States Attorney and makes this Motion for Finding of Nexus Between the Offense of Conviction and the Property Noticed in Government’s Demand for Forfeiture, pursuant to the provisions of Title 18 U.S.C. § 924, through Title 28 U.S.C. § 2461, and Rule 32.2 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure (“Fed. R. Crim. P”), and in support thereof says the following:

On April 14, 2010, a jury found Defendant JOHN THOMAS SHIPLEY guilty of committing the violations of Title 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(1)(A), Title 18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(1)(A) and Title 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a)(3) as charged in Counts (1) through Count (6) of the Indictment that was filed on or about June 24, 2009.
The United States moves the Court to find that the plaintiff, United States of America has proven by the preponderance of the evidence, by virtue of the evidence presented in the criminal case, that the below property (hereinafter “Subject Personal Property”) were firearms and other
1

Case 3:09-cr-01867-DB Document 66 Filed 04/20/10 Page 2 of 6

property involved in or used in a willful violation of Dealing Firearms Without a License and/or 2) a knowing violation of Causing a Firearms Dealer to Maintain False Records.
Pursuant to Fed.R.Crim.P. 32.2(b)(1)(A) ("As soon as practicable after entering a guilty verdict ... on any count in an indictment ... with regard to which criminal forfeiture is sought, the court shall determine what property is subject to forfeiture under the applicable statute....the court must determine whether the government has established the requisite nexus between the property and the offense").

In support of this Motion the government moves to re-enter all the previous evidence produced during the trial in the instant case. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 924(d)(1) and 28 U.S.C. § 2461(c), all firearms and other property involved in or used in a willful violation of Dealing Firearms Without a License and/or 2) a knowing violation of Causing a Firearms Dealer to Maintain False Records shall be forfeited to the United States.

Plaintiff United States of America moves this court to find by the preponderance of the evidence the requisite nexus between the subject personal property and the offenses of which the defendant was convicted including but not limited to the following:

1. Rifle, MNF: Remington Arms Company, INC., Type: Rifle, Model: 700, Cal: 308, SN:
G6531735;
2. Rifle, MNF: H-S Precision, INC., Type: Rifle, Model: PRO Series 2000 SA, Cal: 308, FIN:
Black, SN: 3094;
3. Handgun, MNF: Glock GMBH, Type: Pistol, Model: 21, Cal: 45, SN: DNR872US
4 Rifle, MNF: Remington Arms Company, INC., Type: Rifle, Model: 700, Cal: 308, FIN:
Black, SN: E6658039
2
Case 3:09-cr-01867-DB Document 66 Filed 04/20/10 Page 3 of 6
5. Rifle, MNF: DPMS INC. (Defense Procurement MFG. Services), Type: Rifle , Model: LR- 308, Cal: 308, FIN: Black, SN: 10717;
6. Handgun, MNF: Glock GMBH, Type: Pistol, Model: 36, Cal: 45, SN: DZG207US;
7 Handgun, MNF: Smith & Wesson, Type: Revolver, Model: 686-3, Cal: 357, SN: BNB0549;
8. Handgun, MNF: Glock GMBH, Type: Pistol, Model: 23, Cal: 40, SN: BET894US;
9. Handgun, MNF: Smith & Wesson, Type: Revolver, Model: 27-3, Cal: 357, SN: FBI0971;
10. Handgun, MNF: Springfield Armory, Geneseo, IL, Type: Pistol, Model: 1911-A1, Cal: 45,
FIN: stainless, SN: NM 208816;
11. Handgun, MNF: Kimber, Type: Pistol, Model: Ultra SP II, Cal: 45, FIN: Black, SN:
KUSP0408;
12. Rifle, MNF: Colt, Type: Rifle, Model: AR-15A3, Cal: 223, FIN: Black, SN: LBD001970;
13. Rifle, MNF: DPMS INC. (Defense Procurement MFG. Services), Type: Rifle, Model: LR-
308, Cal: 308, FIN: Black, SN: 6104;
14. Rifle, MNF: Remington Arms Company, INC., Type: Rifle, Model: 700, Cal: 308, FIN:
Black, SN: G6229014;
15. Rifle, MNF: Barrett Firearms MFG CO., Type: Rifle, Model: 82A1, Cal: 50 BMG, FIN:
Black, SN: 20613;
16. Handgun, MNF: Nighthawk Custom, Type: Pistol, Model: Vickers Tactical, Cal: 45, SN:
NC01411;
17. Rifle, MNF: Barrett Firearms MFG CO., Type: Rifle, Model: 82A1NG, Cal: 50 BMG, FIN:
Black, SN: 4974;
18. Silencer:, 1AWC Systems Technology Silencer, Model Thundertrap .30, Serial Number


Case 3:09-cr-01867-DB Document 66 Filed 04/20/10 Page 4 of 6

070564;
19. Ammunition, QTY: 13 rounds, MNF: Remington, Cal: 45;
20. Ammunition, QTY: 6 rounds, MNF: Winchester-Western, Cal: 357;
21. Ammunition, QTY: 14 rounds, MNF: Federal, Cal: 40;
22. Ammunition, QTY: 44 rounds, MNF: Assorted, Cal: 308;
23. Ammunition, QTY: 2,811 rounds, MNF: Assorted, Cal: .50; and
less.

WHEREFORE ALL PREMISES CONSIDERED, the United States of America respectfully moves this Honorable Court to grant its Motion for Finding of Nexus Between the Offenses of Conviction and the Property Noticed in Government’s Demand for Forfeiture by the Preponderance of the Evidence as to defendant JOHN THOMAS SHIPLEY in the instant case.
Respectfully submitted,
.gov

Quoted:
Inflammatory Prosecutorial Statements and Arguments

Twice during the trial the prosecutor represented to the jury that a firearm thatShipley sold to Luis Armando Rodriguez made its way into Mexico and was used to kill a Mexican military officer – knowing full well that this representation was false.She told the jury that a firearm that Shipley sold to Luis Armando Rodriguez "ended up in a drug shootout in Mexico where it killed somebody." (Supp. #1 USCA 1048)Then, on closing argument, the same prosecutor told the jury with respect to the same firearm, "(w)ell, we know where at least one of those .50-calibers ended up, in a shootout with Mexican traffickers, where a Mexican military officer was killed.That's who used those types of weapons." (Supp. #1 USCA 1492). The other  prosecutor stated on closing argument that Shipley got a phone call during which the caller stated, "Your gun, the one you sold, was recovered at a murder in Mexico."(Supp. #1 USCA 1531) There was no evidence supporting these representations -they were fabricated.

Quoted:
Inflammatory Prosecutorial Statements and Arguments

Twice during the trial the prosecutor represented to the jury that a firearm thatShipley sold to Luis Armando Rodriguez made its way into Mexico and was used to kill a Mexican military officer – knowing full well that this representation was false.She told the jury that a firearm that Shipley sold to Luis Armando Rodriguez "ended up in a drug shootout in Mexico where it killed somebody." (Supp. #1 USCA 1048)Then, on closing argument, the same prosecutor told the jury with respect to the same firearm, "(w)ell, we know where at least one of those .50-calibers ended up, in a shootout with Mexican traffickers, where a Mexican military officer was killed.That's who used those types of weapons." (Supp. #1 USCA 1492). The other  prosecutor stated on closing argument that Shipley got a phone call during which the caller stated, "Your gun, the one you sold, was recovered at a murder in Mexico."(Supp. #1 USCA 1531) There was no evidence supporting these representations -they were fabricated.

Quoted:
Why didnt the Judge smack that down and sanction the prosecutor for those statements?

Quoted:






Oh... wait... you were serious.

Actually, I'd like to know that as well.