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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:26:07 AM EDT
[#1]
This will end once the Republicans gain control again in 2012
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:27:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Eventually they will ban chaplains - because chaplains are cost effective, and the government has no business being efficient.  If chaplains were enlisted you might have a case. Making them officers makes no sense at all, since they never have command authority and are noncombatants. Civilian contractors could do the job at a massive cost savings, assuming anybody in DoD would even give a shit if all chaplains disappeared overnight. Ben, what's up? I do believe the Chaplains will be cut eventually given the anti religion agenda that seems prevalent these days I've roomed with our chaplain for a month now (compared to some here that's not much, but's it's exponentially more than most on this site). Anyway, it seems like there are very few things that he does on a day-to-day basis that involve religion. THe modern Chaplain has largely taken on the role of unit counselor/confidant. You kind of made my point for them being done away with then. Although I would hate to see them go. I'd rather see them replaced by a mix of civilian clergy (paid by the church the represent, but provided facilities at government expense) and psychologists/psychiatrists with the same confidentiality rules as in the civilian world. Military one source is a step in the right direction, and the military at least seems to be recognizing that we need a better assurance of confidentiality than currently exists if they ever think we'll actually use the shrinks on base. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:28:58 AM EDT
[#3]
This is GREAT.
There are so many fucking fat NCOs in the Army that can FINALLY be authorized to wear Maternity ACUs. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:34:46 AM EDT
[#4]
You guys realize that just because some sort of group calls for something, that doesn't mean it's going to happen, right? Just because this "SLDN" or whatever the hell it is wants it done, doesn't mean it's an official policy. It seems like a lot of people here get confused by that.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:35:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:Which activities are you talking about? And I'm asking about the marriage issue because there may be some who try to push the issue that the military is no longer allowed to discriminate based on sexual preference... they may try to push it in this direction as well. After all, one of the bigger fears with DADT being gone was that commands may be pressured to not be painted as "gay bashing", so there may be some knee-jerk reactions in the works for those who do not support this new theme. No offense dude, but read the thread. Yes, the next step after the fall of DADT is to attack DOMA. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:37:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
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Eventually they will ban chaplains - because chaplains are cost effective, and the government has no business being efficient. If chaplains were enlisted you might have a case. Making them officers makes no sense at all, since they never have command authority and are noncombatants. Civilian contractors could do the job at a massive cost savings, assuming anybody in DoD would even give a shit if all chaplains disappeared overnight. Ben, what's up? I do believe the Chaplains will be cut eventually given the anti religion agenda that seems prevalent these days I've roomed with our chaplain for a month now (compared to some here that's not much, but's it's exponentially more than most on this site). Anyway, it seems like there are very few things that he does on a day-to-day basis that involve religion. THe modern Chaplain has largely taken on the role of unit counselor/confidant. You kind of made my point for them being done away with then. Although I would hate to see them go. I'd rather see them replaced by a mix of civilian clergy (paid by the church the represent, but provided facilities at government expense) and psychologists/psychiatrists with the same confidentiality rules as in the civilian world. Military one source is a step in the right direction, and the military at least seems to be recognizing that we need a better assurance of confidentiality than currently exists if they ever think we'll actually use the shrinks on base. That is one aspect that's a bit hard on them perhaps... the confidentiality issues. Military laws require that the chaplain spill the beans on you if you say something incriminating against yourself. The only time I know of that they don't force the issue is for Roman Catholic priests and only if the statements are said in confession. Now granted that right there may answer my own question from above... whether or not the chaplains can be punished for not performing marriages... I just think someone's going to still try to push the issue to punish them anyway, or stir shit up over it at least. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:38:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
You guys realize that just because some sort of group calls for something, that doesn't mean it's going to happen, right? Just because this "SLDN" or whatever the hell it is wants it done, doesn't mean it's an official policy. It seems like a lot of people here get confused by that.  You mean when like gays wanted to openly serve?
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:41:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: I'd rather see them replaced by a mix of civilian clergy (paid by the church the represent, but provided facilities at government expense) and psychologists/psychiatrists with the same confidentiality rules as in the civilian world. Military one source is a step in the right direction, and the military at least seems to be recognizing that we need a better assurance of confidentiality than currently exists if they ever think we'll actually use the shrinks on base. Problem 1 I see is that these types make abbout $20,000 extra as incentive pay. Not too cost effective IMO to have at every battalion. Problem 2 is that no one wants to talk to the psychologist, but they will have no problem talking to the chaplain. How will the civilian clergy work in deployed situations? |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:47:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wait until they start forcing out the chaplains They are already doing that Cite? Monday, January 22, 2007 Christian Chaplain Dismissed; Muslim Chaplain Promoted Chaplain Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt has been court-martialed and dismissed from the U.S. Navy. His crime? Praying in Jesus' name in uniform outside a chapel. You read it right. After 15 1/2 years of exemplary service, Lt. Klingenschmitt is being drummed out of the Navy. Now, compare, "[T]he Pentagon recently promoted a Wahhabi-trained Muslim chaplain who catered to al-Qaida detainees at Guantanamo and fought to establish the first Mosque in Marine Corps history."...... by Pastor Chuck Baldwin NewsWithViews.com In addition, those in the service know that most good officers "resign for the good of the service" rather than undergo the travail of dismissal, in situations like this. So, their choice of conscience does not show up on the radar, at least not in public. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:48:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: How long before PFC Shithead skates on his PT test because he identifies himself as a female and wants to be scored under female standards? Or wants a 1-2 day deferment on PT because its that time of the month and even though he is technically a male, he should be allowed it because all the girls do. I have never heard of females being deferred for that time of the month, but I aint on active duty, so . . . Now as for keeping Chaplains around . . . that's a tough one. Once the Wiccans get their first Chaplain, or you get Gay Chaplains they you will see them back off the Chaplain Corps as a whole. Personally, I have seen few Chaplains who were worth the effort in the current Army. We had one in AFG who openly told the NG soldiers that they couldn't talk to him because they weren't as good as the AD guys. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:52:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wait until they start forcing out the chaplains They are already doing that Cite? Monday, January 22, 2007 Christian Chaplain Dismissed; Muslim Chaplain Promoted Chaplain Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt has been court-martialed and dismissed from the U.S. Navy. His crime? Praying in Jesus' name in uniform outside a chapel. You read it right. After 15 1/2 years of exemplary service, Lt. Klingenschmitt is being drummed out of the Navy. Now, compare, "[T]he Pentagon recently promoted a Wahhabi-trained Muslim chaplain who catered to al-Qaida detainees at Guantanamo and fought to establish the first Mosque in Marine Corps history."...... by Pastor Chuck Baldwin NewsWithViews.com In addition, those in the service know that most good officers "resign for the good of the service" rather than undergo the travail of dismissal, in situations like this. So, their choice of conscience does not show up on the radar, at least not in public. Wait a tic...you said one thing, then posted another... A Navy court decided yesterday to reprimand and dock the pay of an evangelical Protestant chaplain after finding him guilty of disobeying an order by appearing in uniform at a political protest in front of the White House in March. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401544.html |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:53:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: I'd rather see them replaced by a mix of civilian clergy (paid by the church the represent, but provided facilities at government expense) and psychologists/psychiatrists with the same confidentiality rules as in the civilian world. Military one source is a step in the right direction, and the military at least seems to be recognizing that we need a better assurance of confidentiality than currently exists if they ever think we'll actually use the shrinks on base. Problem 1 I see is that these types make abbout $20,000 extra as incentive pay. Not too cost effective IMO to have at every battalion. Problem 2 is that no one wants to talk to the psychologist, but they will have no problem talking to the chaplain. How will the civilian clergy work in deployed situations? Right, but you are talking about uniformed shrinks. We can eliminate them altogether and transition to a GS DoD civilian pool or contractors only and save a boatload of money. The civilian clergy will work as well deployed as chaplains do now, if they want to serve their god, and not just make a paycheck, they should be willing to go wherever we go. No, they won't get any military protection under LOAC, but they don't really now anyway. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:54:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Eventually they will ban chaplains - because chaplains are cost effective, and the government has no business being efficient. If chaplains were enlisted you might have a case. Making them officers makes no sense at all, since they never have command authority and are noncombatants. Civilian contractors could do the job at a massive cost savings, assuming anybody in DoD would even give a shit if all chaplains disappeared overnight. Ben, what's up? I do believe the Chaplains will be cut eventually given the anti religion agenda that seems prevalent these days I've roomed with our chaplain for a month now (compared to some here that's not much, but's it's exponentially more than most on this site). Anyway, it seems like there are very few things that he does on a day-to-day basis that involve religion. THe modern Chaplain has largely taken on the role of unit counselor/confidant. You kind of made my point for them being done away with then. Although I would hate to see them go. I'd rather see them replaced by a mix of civilian clergy (paid by the church the represent, but provided facilities at government expense) and psychologists/psychiatrists with the same confidentiality rules as in the civilian world. Military one source is a step in the right direction, and the military at least seems to be recognizing that we need a better assurance of confidentiality than currently exists if they ever think we'll actually use the shrinks on base. I haven't heard of Chaplains being forced to talk about what is said behind closed doors, but I believe that doctors may also have an obligation to report criminal activity or activity that might endanger others (PVT Snuffy saying he wants to shoot his PL, for instance). There is only one Chaplain I have ever met who I am confident would stand up to threats of expulsion, though. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:55:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How long before PFC Shithead skates on his PT test because he identifies himself as a female and wants to be scored under female standards? Or wants a 1-2 day deferment on PT because its that time of the month and even though he is technically a male, he should be allowed it because all the girls do. I have never heard of females being deferred for that time of the month, but I aint on active duty, so . . . I spent 4.5 years in co-ed units and have never even heard of a period profile until I read this thread. But hell, I'm sure all the queers will be getting them now
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:58:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd rather see them replaced by a mix of civilian clergy (paid by the church the represent, but provided facilities at government expense) and psychologists/psychiatrists with the same confidentiality rules as in the civilian world. Military one source is a step in the right direction, and the military at least seems to be recognizing that we need a better assurance of confidentiality than currently exists if they ever think we'll actually use the shrinks on base. Problem 1 I see is that these types make abbout $20,000 extra as incentive pay. Not too cost effective IMO to have at every battalion. Problem 2 is that no one wants to talk to the psychologist, but they will have no problem talking to the chaplain. How will the civilian clergy work in deployed situations? Right, but you are talking about uniformed shrinks. We can eliminate them altogether and transition to a GS DoD civilian pool or contractors only and save a boatload of money. The civilian clergy will work as well deployed as chaplains do now, if they want to serve their god, and not just make a paycheck, they should be willing to go wherever we go. No, they won't get any military protection under LOAC, but they don't really now anyway. Having the Chaplains go as civilians seems . . . hypocritical of the traditions of the military. How on earth are you going to save any money on Psychologists by having them be civilian contractors? They will quite at the drop of a hat when they are asked to go a combat zone for the peanuts that a GS-civ gets paid when they could go start their own practice and make that inside of a few years of work, or go to work associated with someone else and make it inside of a year or two. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:59:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How long before PFC Shithead skates on his PT test because he identifies himself as a female and wants to be scored under female standards? Or wants a 1-2 day deferment on PT because its that time of the month and even though he is technically a male, he should be allowed it because all the girls do. I have never heard of females being deferred for that time of the month, but I aint on active duty, so . . . I spent 4.5 years in co-ed units and have never even heard of a period profile until I read this thread. But hell, I'm sure all the queers will be getting them now Have to say that I have met a few that I am certain would do it if they could get away with it. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 10:59:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: The civilian clergy will work as well deployed as chaplains do now, if they want to serve their god, and not just make a paycheck, they should be willing to go wherever we go. I think the Army might have an issue when we start throwing civilian chaplains on Airborne status. And yes, I do have an issue with chaplains taking up a chute on airfield seizures. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:01:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wait until they start forcing out the chaplains They are already doing that Cite? Chaplain Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt has been court-martialed and dismissed from the U.S. Navy. His crime? Praying in Jesus' name in uniform outside a chapel. Wearing his uniform to political rallies and refusing to follow lawful orders. Klingenschmitt is an attention-whoring jerk not suited to military service. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:04:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Or wants a 1-2 day deferment on PT because its that time of the month and even though he is technically a male, he should be allowed it because all the girls do. I have never heard of females being deferred for that time of the month, but I aint on active duty, so . . . I just had a great corpsman fail her semiannual physical test because she couldn't get it deferred. She's a distance runner who normally scores at the very top. YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:07:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Or wants a 1-2 day deferment on PT because its that time of the month and even though he is technically a male, he should be allowed it because all the girls do. I have never heard of females being deferred for that time of the month, but I aint on active duty, so . . . I just had a great corpsman fail her semiannual physical test because she couldn't get it deferred. She's a distance runner who normally scores at the very top. YMMV. Her CoC doesn't have the flexibility to utilize common sense? Hmm... |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:13:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: You guys realize that just because some sort of group calls for something, that doesn't mean it's going to happen, right? Just because this "SLDN" or whatever the hell it is wants it done, doesn't mean it's an official policy. It seems like a lot of people here get confused by that. You mean when like gays wanted to openly serve?In that case, it wasn't a small group was it? |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:14:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: I just had a great corpsman fail her semiannual physical test because she couldn't get it deferred. She's a distance runner who normally scores at the very top. YMMV. Her CoC doesn't have the flexibility to utilize common sense? Hmm... Nope. Unfortunately PFA testing was taken out of the hands of individual units and given to our reserve center, who would not budge since she didn't request it in advance. She'll demolish the next one. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:14:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: What are you smoking? I've never seen a civilian contractor do anything cheaper then their military equivilent.
Quoted: Eventually they will ban chaplains - because chaplains are cost effective, and the government has no business being efficient. If chaplains were enlisted you might have a case. Making them officers makes no sense at all, since they never have command authority and are noncombatants. Civilian contractors could do the job at a massive cost savings, assuming anybody in DoD would even give a shit if all chaplains disappeared overnight. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:30:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: That's because you don't know what you are talking about. The true cost of an active duty GI is immense, when you calculate medical care and the value of our retirement. Sure the civvie may look to you like they cost more because their direct compensation per year is higher, but I promise you we wouldn't have converted hundreds of thousands of jobs across DoD to civilian positions if it didn't save money. Quoted: What are you smoking? I've never seen a civilian contractor do anything cheaper then their military equivilent. Quoted: Eventually they will ban chaplains - because chaplains are cost effective, and the government has no business being efficient. If chaplains were enlisted you might have a case. Making them officers makes no sense at all, since they never have command authority and are noncombatants. Civilian contractors could do the job at a massive cost savings, assuming anybody in DoD would even give a shit if all chaplains disappeared overnight. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:33:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Wait a tic...you said one thing, then posted another...
Just trying to be fair and balanced... In other words, some will object and be dismissed, more will keep quiet on the threat of dismissal and resign the chaplaincy. In the end, the result is the same. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:35:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:Which activities are you talking about?
And I'm asking about the marriage issue because there may be some who try to push the issue that the military is no longer allowed to discriminate based on sexual preference... they may try to push it in this direction as well. After all, one of the bigger fears with DADT being gone was that commands may be pressured to not be painted as "gay bashing", so there may be some knee-jerk reactions in the works for those who do not support this new theme. No offense dude, but read the thread. Yes, the next step after the fall of DADT is to attack DOMA. Correct - and that battle is already being waged in the courts. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:38:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Wait a tic...you said one thing, then posted another... Just trying to be fair and balanced... In other words, some will object and be dismissed, more will keep quiet on the threat of dismissal and resign the chaplaincy. In the end, the result is the same. So...do you have an example of someone refusing to do a religious ceremony and getting fired for it? In the words of my roommate "I can refuse to marry whoever I want, but i will work to find them a chaplain who will". |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 12:05:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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How long before PFC Shithead skates on his PT test because he identifies himself as a female and wants to be scored under female standards? Or wants a 1-2 day deferment on PT because its that time of the month and even though he is technically a male, he should be allowed it because all the girls do. I have never heard of females being deferred for that time of the month, but I aint on active duty, so . . . I spent 4.5 years in co-ed units and have never even heard of a period profile until I read this thread. But hell, I'm sure all the queers will be getting them now There's no such thing in the Navy, certainly. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 3:48:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wait a tic...you said one thing, then posted another...
Just trying to be fair and balanced... In other words, some will object and be dismissed, more will keep quiet on the threat of dismissal and resign the chaplaincy. In the end, the result is the same. So...do you have an example of someone refusing to do a religious ceremony and getting fired for it? In the words of my roommate "I can refuse to marry whoever I want, but i will work to find them a chaplain who will". That's very noble of him
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Posted: 9/30/2011 3:50:39 PM EDT
[#30]
For the first time in 6 years I am glad I am no longer in the Army and I can never go back.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 3:58:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Next thing you know, chaplains will be bringing hot chocolate to atheists in foxholes
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:00:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Next thing you know, chaplains will be bringing hot chocolate to atheists in foxholes No, next thing you know, Chaplains will be gone. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:02:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Next thing you know, chaplains will be bringing hot chocolate to atheists in foxholes No, next thing you know, Chaplains will be gone. That would suck. I love my chaplain. no homo |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:05:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wait until they start forcing out the chaplains that don't want to perform the ceremony for Pfc. Slave & Sgt. Big Gay Al. Just like they force out the Baptists for not christening infants? So - did the repeal of DADT include provisions for objections on religious grounds? You are comparing apples to oranges. Do you guys know what the word "may" means? Do you know the difference between "may" and "shall"? Chaplains don't have to perform any ceremony that conflicts with their religious views. That said, if they want to, they now have the ability to do so. Here's the catch. Even if they perform the ceremony the two people in question are still not married in the eyes of the federal government because of DOMA. So they get nothing but a nice little ceremony. OH TEH NOEZ, THE WORLD WILL END!111 |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:05:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Next thing you know, chaplains will be bringing hot chocolate to atheists in foxholes No, next thing you know, Chaplains will be gone. That would suck. I love my chaplain. no homo I'm not even religious, and I loved having the Chaplain around. He was a real morale booster, not to mention an all around good guy. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:07:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eventually they will ban chaplains - because chaplains are cost effective, and the government has no business being efficient. If chaplains were enlisted you might have a case. Making them officers makes no sense at all, since they never have command authority and are noncombatants. Civilian contractors could do the job at a massive cost savings, assuming anybody in DoD would even give a shit if all chaplains disappeared overnight. Ben, what's up? I do believe the Chaplains will be cut eventually given the anti religion agenda that seems prevalent these days I've roomed with our chaplain for a month now (compared to some here that's not much, but's it's exponentially more than most on this site). Anyway, it seems like there are very few things that he does on a day-to-day basis that involve religion. THe modern Chaplain has largely taken on the role of unit counselor/confidant. One of my best friends is a Navy Chaplain. These guys are cost effective. If you don't understand their role it is because you fail to think strategically. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:14:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Is there a logical reason Chaplains are noncombatants?
I know the rules, but medics also used to be noncombatants and that has changed, why not chaplains too? |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:18:58 PM EDT
[#38]
You need a medic/corpsman in a squad of trigger pullers, and the guys we fight try to kill them. You don't need a chaplain right there.
That would be a hell of a lot of chaplains. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:26:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
You need a medic/corpsman in a squad of trigger pullers, and the guys we fight try to kill them. You don't need a chaplain right there. That would be a hell of a lot of chaplains. Why not an Ordained Trigger Puller? Just as well trained as everyone else of course |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: You need a medic/corpsman in a squad of trigger pullers, and the guys we fight try to kill them. You don't need a chaplain right there. That would be a hell of a lot of chaplains. Why not an Ordained Trigger Puller? Just as well trained as everyone else of course You mean make it a collateral duty, Heinlein-style? That would be fine as far as I am concerned as far as strictly religious duties go. Wouldn't work as far as the counselor duties of a chaplain, which is really their bread and butter. That takes up a lot of time, and it's a vital function. You'd have to hire someone else to do it, secular or ordained. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 6:32:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Because chaplins may (at their discertion) perform same-sex unions?For the first time in 6 years I am glad I am no longer in the Army and I can never go back. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 7:37:07 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm glad I'm retired...
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:06:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Wait until they start forcing out the chaplains that don't want to perform the ceremony for Pfc. Slave & Sgt. Big Gay Al. At least they aren't requiring Chaplains to perform gay marriages if it conflicts with their beliefs (yet), however, the pro-gay, you'd better just do as your told rhetoric is omnipresent. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:33:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I am pretty sure the DOMA still applies so.these service members still won't qualify for any dependent status. Ahhh, and Foxxnhound nails it: the Catch 22 of no more DADT and DOMA: Since the fed doesn't recognize same-sex marriages, it would be impossible for a same-sex couple to exist in the eyes of federal law, therefore, through no fault of their own, same-sex couples can't comply with the law, thus provisions will be incorporated for allowing them to do so. Also noted: gay couples living in otherwise non-coed barracks and same-sex couples being able to co-PCS like opposite-sex married couples. Just more of those gray areas that are being addressed. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:45:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
All the conservatives are leaving the military in droves to usher in the new socialist left controlled military. This is a much more insidious threat than many might believe. As evidence I site the Balkans: it was much easier for the Yugoslavian government to get a primarily Serb army with a mostly Serb officer cadre to turn on the other (non-Serb) states and especially the non-Serb people within the Republic. Think about a US Military turned anti-Constitution, anti-Democracy, anti-2A, etc. |
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