Ah, that would probably explain it, thanks for the info, the AF asked for help but didn't tell us shit

Local news report says plane "crashed and burned" a "couple hundred yards" from US Hwy 98 (for those not familiar, Hwy 98 splits right through the middle of Tyndall AFB).  Been years since I was a air force cop stationed at Tyndall, but the AF loves some cordons (sometimes for valid reasons).

This.  Unfortunately, it's not a reusable lawn dart.

It wasn't really completely closed.  They were just stopping traffic at the foot of the PC side of the bridge and only letting TY personnel and dependents go across, all traffic heading to Mexico Beach was turned around.  This caused traffic trying to leave the base to get backed up.

I've got enough energy for one turn, don't make me use it!

From what I understand these things are a hazmat nightmare due to the composites and materials used in their construction.  What a mess.
 

One here.  And it didn't crash on the drone runway.  I believe it ended up near the subscale drone recovery area though.

Mike

Isn't that on the other side of the hwy?

i think this is correct.
187 was the original delivered number.

This was the 4th F-22 crash.

#14 at Nellis
#8 at Edwards
#125 at Elmo
todays

I just watched a demo of the F-22 over the weekend at Nellis AFB, and it said we have 100 in our fleet at the cost of $143 million each.

It doesn't. Then you are back to that 97 mile range listed on wiki (if they are correct). But I'm guessing they will try  to have the engagements  biased to their strengths.

Pretty high loss rate for a modern aircraft that has yet to even see a hostile aircraft on radar.
 

I'm familiar with the area.

No doubt.

Yes, with the battlestars and vipers the goat herders in the middle east have, we need to step up our game.  

 

Billions down the drain for a fighter that can't go above 10,000 feet. What a colossal waste of money. Money that could have been spent paying off the debt.

A co worker and I were discussing it and he hopes it won't have much impact on the -22 program, namely being grounded.  I reminded him the air show season is pretty much over for the winter and they will be ready for next spring.

I'm going to guess that you have no technical basis for your post.

Obviously you know nothing about the F22 do you? Let me make this simple I work on the 22, Im a crew chief up at Elmendorf and was down at Tyndall for 6 years before the 4 years up here. Anyhow the F22 is deployed all over the world as we speak it has seen more than one Hostile aircraft up here in Alaska much less in other parts of the world. If you dont know anything about these Aircraft stop posting all this stupid shit you know nothing about. Also you need to remember OPSEC if you guys are military and not be talking about shit thats not supposed to be mentioned on here. And one last thing is Tyndall is where we train new pilots on the F22 so dont blame the Jet human error could be a factor and we wont know until a proper investigation is completed.

Right.  Because all future conflicts are going to be against goat herders in the Middle East.

Oops, my bad, the boss tells me it did in fact crash on the fullscale drone runway.  Sorry about the confusion.

v/r

Mike

I'm pretty sure he meant hostile as in enemy that you shoot at....not hostile as in not an enemy that you wave to and ask to turn around.  And it is a high loss rate for something that the country invested so much in, something that is supposed to be around long enough for my grandkids to fly it...

Do you suck at forms as much as you suck at ranting? (Don't answer; I already know....)

The F-22 protgram has lost 4 airframes since it began back in the late 1980s.  IIRC the F-14 lost 4 airframes in one month of prototype testing.  That program didn't get cancelled and a damn good aircraft with a long and good service record was the result.

Four aircraft out of 187 produced is not a high loss rate.  We have simply gotten used to having so very few non-combat losses that it seems high to some people.

Learn from the past and realize that we are light years ahead of the sorts of loss rates that plagued military aviation a few decades ago.  They didn't coin sayings like "One a day in Tampa Bay" for nothing.

The Air Force would lose close to one hundred planes per year back in my time.  And the Navy paid in blood to develop the technologies of jet aircraft operating on their carriers.  And now military aviation is approaching cilvil aviation levels of safety in what is really and apples and grapefruit comparison, given the different demands of the two.

It's a shame that the aircraft went down and it is a loss to national capabilities, as is every lost military aircraft.  But to try and come across like one airframe being lost equates to time to end the program is foolhardy.

Should have used an F-35.

Glad he got out safe



There goes another one, now about 176 aircraft


 

Ummm, let me think......wait for it.......................most likely will not be.

The Tomcat is a 1960s aircraft. I don't consider it modern. The F-22 poisons pilots, is hazardous to work on, and is no longer in production. It also has the highest accident rate of any aircraft in current service.





 

F14 loses before 19 August 1981


160674 F-14A VF-111 NL204 27.06.1981
161278 F-14A Grumman 07.06.1981
160385 F-14A VF-41 AJ107 26.05.1981
161138 F-14A VF-84 AJ221 26.05.1981
160402 F-14A VF-41 AJ111 26.05.1981
161157 F-14A VF-32 24.04.1981
160670 F-14A VF-111 NL202 04.11.1980
159605 F-14A VF-143 13.09.1980
160380 F-14A VF-84 03.05.1980
160388 F-14A VF-41 AJ105 01.04.1980
159601 F-14A VF-142 AG214 06.03.1980
160916 F-14A VF-124 NJ465 03.03.1980
159022 F-14A VF-32 AB210 05.12.1979
160383 F-14A VF-41 AJ102 03.11.1979
160890 F-14A VF-124 NJ402 12.10.1979
160672 F-14A VF-111 NL203 09.09.1979
159456 F-14A VF-143 21.05.1979
159636 F-14A VF-211 NG112 25.11.1978
159430 F-14A VF-14 AC106 05.10.1978
160659 F-14A VF-124 13.09.1978
159632 F-14A VF-211 NG102 25.08.1978
159622 F-14A VF-211 NG107 15.07.1978
160653 F-14A VF-124 NJ443 15.06.1978
158995 F-14A VF-1 NK106 27.03.1978
159851 F-14A VF-213 NH210 25.03.1978
160412 F-14A VF-213 NH210 21.03.1978
159012 F-14A VF-14 AB102 20.03.1978
160346 F-14A IIAF 15.11.1977
159451 F-14A VF-142 AE210 10.11.1977
159008 F-14A VF-101 31.10.1977
160392 F-14A VF-41 AJ111 03.10.1977
159839 F-14A VF-124 NJ427 28.08.1977
159854 F-14A VF-114 NH101 28.06.1977
159594 F-14A VF-101 AD153 21.06.1977
160311 F-14A IIAF 30.04.1977
159842 F-14A VF-124 NJ432 19.04.1977
159443 F-14A VF-143 AE113 28.03.1977
158619 F-14A NATC 619 22.02.1977
159464 F-14A VF-2 NK213 19.12.1976
159588 F-14A VF-32 AB221 14.09.1976
158996 F-14A VF-2 NK215 26.06.1977
159838 F-14A VF-124 NJ426 21.06.1976
159461 F-14A VF-124 23.03.1976
159826 F-14A NATC 05.03.1976
159590 F-14A VF-124 NJ453 29.10.1975
159007 F-14A VF-14 AB100 05.08.1975
159432 F-14A VF-143 24.06.1975
159001 F-14A VF-1 NK112 14.01.1975
158982 F-14A VF-1 NK107 02.01.1975
157987 F-14A NATC 19.09.1974
157981 F-14A Grumman 13.05.1974
157985 F-14A NMC 6 20.06.1973
157989 F-14A NATC 10 30.06.1972
157980 F-14A Grumman 30.12.1970

Not a modern aircraft. It is a 40 year old airplane.





ETA: For comparison, as much as I despise the program, the F-35 has no losses even in the testing phases.

Another comparison: Only two Eurofighter crashes and they are in worldwide service.
 

That's only 8 years... F-15s sure as shit will be viable in every role it currently plays, and the F-16 will still be useful in most roles.

What's going to change so much in 8 years?

More hours on the airframes for one.

The same people that say China isn't going to invade and to quit stockpiling ammo because it is masturbatory redneck fantasy want to fund aircraft to fight the same war they call a pipe dream.





 

Hazardous to work on? Damn, we have a lot of maintainers on this board. Here's a hint: they're fucking ALL hazardous to work on.

I remember when they rolled out the F-16. MacDill lost a few due to pilots blacking out from High-G maneuvers. We lose aircraft whenever we roll out something new. We also lose aircraft because they are complex machines and sometimes things break. I doubt this is any higher a loss rate than other fighters at similar points in their deployment.

The subscale launch area is on the other side of 98.  I don't know where the recovery area is he is referring to, I thought is was the Gulf of Mexico.

Here is a pic of where it landed next to the drone runway.  I also drove down 98 and did not see any burnt areas on the road or even next to it.

Physics, what is it?

I'm happy to hear the pilot is ok and no ground injuries! Hope it's not some of the guy's I've met in the past. I hear it was not a student pilot. My daughter and Son in Law are based at Tyndall, she was at the Commissary walking to her vehicle then was to go pick up her husband, a Raptor/Eagle techie when she heard a lout thud around that time and from the area of the Drone runway area but they frequently hear lout thuds and explosions in the distance as I have as heard frequently as well, so one seldom pays any attention to the noises around.

Her husband hadn't even heard about the crash as he must have just gotten off work in the hanger. The word going around was that an F16 had crashed which was possible I guess as 16's have been flying aroind more often since Tyndall went full ACC two months or so ago. But I told her it must have been a 22 or a 15. Tyndall later put out a breaking news bulletin that it was the Raptor.

I'm scheduled to visit them in December and am...or was looking forward to having an airshow over the house every day, but time before last I vistited was around the time the Raptors were grounded for oxegen problems and I missed out seeing them.

She was headed off base heading west on 98 and the traffic was dead stop on the bridge headed away from Tyndall, but no traffic on the east bound side. She said there were police boat(s) in the water, fire department and police around the bridge area. I wondered why that far from the scene of the crash? Either way it sucked big time no matter what side of the crash drivers were. Mexico beach residents have to drive all the way around, while coming from the town of Parker is not a joy with stop and go traffic as it is.

I recall, if headed out of the active side if the base and headed east... the QRF4's and runway is on the left side of 98 and the other small unmanned radio drones I believe are on the right towards the water. Wasn't there a QRF4 crash in the waters there last year? In March 2011 one of the 16 foot orange drones was not rercovered after being shot down over the Gulf and the Tyndall navy apparently lost track of it and it washed up on shore at Russell-Fields City Pier area.

I don't know about hazardous to work on or whether the loss rate is high compared to other aircraft that we currently use...

Saying that we've lost four since the 1980s is misleading at best and you know that.  My point is that no matter how good it is, at this rate we won't have many left in 2040 when it's still supposed to be our top of the line fighter.  Losing 1 a year or so is too many when you only have 187 no matter how good it is.

I'm only criticizing the number we have, I do know the reasons for it (cost/politics...f-22s dont vote goblins do)

I use to watch the F35s and hear them make live fire bombing runs on an island when I use to go to Cape San Blas and Panama City. They would hover over the ocean just off the beach head for awhile and then speed off. Awesome show!
 

Ouch. That won't buff out.

It was an F-22 RAPTOR...
 

That's different from saying that the design won't be viable.

The F15K is definitely going to be a viable platform in 2020.  So will most of F15Es in USAF service.

In what theater?  Certainly not one with a robust air defense system.  Even the USAF aluminum airframes are going to wait for the LO platforms to attrit the IADS, lets the IADS attrit the aluminum airplanes.

In this thread and others, you keep making statements about the aircraft poisoning the pilots.  This does not appear to be the case.

I'll reiterate what I've said before.  There is no substantive evidence of any toxins in the pilots' breathing air.  There is no evidence of systemic undetected low O2 conditions with the OBOGS.  There is no evidence of systemic insufficient OBOGS pressure/flow.

The same sort of issue came up with the recent F-18 crash in Virginia Beach.  The smoke can be pretty dangerous; more so than what you get from an aluminum and kerosene fire.  So this isn't an F-22 specific problem from what I've read.

I recall seem to several F-15s, 3 or 4 to be more precise and all within a few months, breaking in two and crashing in recent years.  Still in service and obviously a worse record than the F-22's.