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Posted: 1/7/2022 11:50:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: 1. The Supermarine Spitfire. 2. The Attack on Pearl Harbor. The Hawker Hurricane actually was used more in the battle of Britain. Pearl Harbor had nothing to do with it. Germany sealed their fate on 21 June 1941 when they attacked Russia. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 11:53:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: 1. Winston Churchill. 2. The Attack on Pearl Harbor. Churchill knew Hitler's terms would be very favorable because he wanted to fight the Russians on one front. But he also knew that they'd have to fight them eventually, and in a single front war, they would lose to the Nazis. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 11:54:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Who gives a shit? We apparently only held it off for a few decades and changed the group of people that will be focused on killing.
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:11:56 PM EDT
[#4]
1. The English Channel
2. Winston Churchill "The stopping power of water." An amphibious invasion is the most difficult military operation to plan, coordinate, execute, and sustain -- a contested battle is not just an administrative ferry and landing. Churchill's "We will never surrender" radio speech struck a chord with Britons into their core -- "Britons never never shall be slaves" from Rule Britannia.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:16:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't know the Germans enjoyed naval dominance over England throught WW2. I better go back and get rid of all my books on the subject. Shit, the Graf Spee tied up their fleet for months. One boat. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:20:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sir Winston Churchill saved the United Kingdom *Looks at United Kingdom today* Debatable. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:22:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pearl Harbor? Lol no. The truth is Germany fucked up in three ways that had nothing to do with Japan: 1. They started targeting civilian marked ships while trying to destroy US weapons en route to England. This pushed the American people toward war. 2. They pushed on too many fronts at one time, declared war on the USA when they didn't have to, and spent too many resources defending in Africa and attacking Russia. Had Germany focused on England and left Russia alone until after the winter, England would have fallen. Instead then went into Russia and ran out of time. 3. They lost the Battle of Britain even though they had superior forces. The loss of so many aircraft and the clear defeat of the Luftwaffe sent Hitler reeling and changed the momentum. Germany never recovered from the loss of air superiority, and by the time the Americans began bombing, the Luftwaffe was a shell of its former self. This is always an interesting debate, and it will never have a fully agreed consensus. However, your #2 in your post is Pearl Harbor. The Germans were part of the Axis, and the agreement was to declare war on the enemies of Japan and Italy. Pearl Harbor caused Germany to abide by its agreement. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:27:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sealion was never going to happen. There was simply no way for the German army to cross the channel. Nor was the British army going back to Europe on their own. The US and lend lease made it possible. W/o the US, it is a draw. Hitler never invades and Britain defends in North Africa and India. Eventually winning in NA and securing India. I was going to post this. The UK was not getting invaded and they were in no hurry to get back into Europe. Which would have opened the door for Uncle Joe Stalin to take as much as western Europe as he liked. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:31:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hitler’s declaration of war against the United States. I'll say it again...which brings us back to Pearl Harbor. Hitler would not have declared war on the U.S. (at least at that time) if not for the Axis agreement with Japan and Italy. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:36:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. The US was fully involved from a supply line in 1940 and Pearl Harbor happened a year after the Battle for Brittain after the Germans gave up invading England. Germany lacked a navel force to cross the channel and occupy England. No, you're wrong. That supply line you mention was a slow drip compared to what was about to come online in both war material and men. The supply of men and war material the U.S. was able to eventually crank out was what won the war. Those old destroyers and feeble U.S. airplanes at the time of lend/lease definitely helped to slow the bleeding, but the real machines of allied power came later. And the place of manufacture for those machines was out of range for Japan and Germany to attack and bomb. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:39:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The early Spitfire wasn't that great until it got 130 octane fuel. And let’s not forget Miss Shilling’s Orifice. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:42:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Big coal
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:43:23 PM EDT
[#13]
While Germany was pretty good at waging war for the short term it’s a good thing Hitler was a shitty commander of the military.
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Posted: 1/7/2022 12:56:22 PM EDT
[#14]
1. Radar
Without it's successful development and implementation the Battle of Britain would have been much different. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 2:44:47 PM EDT
[#15]
I disagree with those who point to the Royal Navy. Without the RAF the navy would have taken huge losses intercepting the German invasion, and RAF fighters allowed the RN to station at least some of the fleet near southeast England where they could battle the German invasion in the first 12 hours.
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Posted: 1/7/2022 3:06:00 PM EDT
[#16]
303 Squadron during Battle of Britain.
You put bunch of pissed off Polish pilots in UK airplanes and let them loose  . Not widely known but since I'm originally Polish, I will spread some knowledge here.The Poles were keen to fight but the RAF would not at first let them fly operationally. This was because few of the exiles spoke English. What the British did not yet realise was that many of the Poles were excellent pilots. Having come through the Polish and French Campaigns, they had more combat experience than most of their British comrades and they employed superior tactics. As the Battle of Britain wore on, and the shortage of trained pilots became critical, the exiles were accepted into RAF squadrons and two Polish fighter units, Nos. 302 and 303 Squadrons, During the Battle of Britain the Czech Sergeant Josef Frantisek was Fighter Command's most successful pilot. Once committed to action, the Poles flew and fought superbly, shooting down 203 enemy aircraft for the loss of 29 pilots killed. No. 303 Squadron became the most successful Fighter Command unit in the Battle, shooting down 126 German machines in only 42 days. Czech Sergeant Josef Frantisek, also of ‘303’, was the top scoring pilot with 17 confirmed victories. https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/the-polish-air-force-in-world-war-2/303-squadron/ More info here about 303 Squadron RAF https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Squadron_RAF |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 3:09:19 PM EDT
[#17]
It's been said but yeah Hurricanes.
Pearl Harbor? No. Lend lease and merchant marines? Yes. Channel and Hitler wanting to go into Russia asap, Yes. (And LL weas helping the Russians, possibly more than the UK was getting out of it) America didn't want to fight a war in Europe. Honestly, 'we' didn't really care. We didn't want England to fall, but didn't really care much about France or Russia. Bunch of Kings and Communists and hell, we left that stuff behind 170ish years before. Now, Japan, we were hating on good and wanted to fight. As it was we were putting a lot of pressure on Japan, practically begging them to hit us first, and they finally did with Pearl. Meanwhile all through 1940 Churchill was doing his damnedest to get the US into the war in Europe, but Roosevelt and congress just kept ignoring him, essentially. Arms deals, sure, but that was about as far as our interest and support went. And Meanwhile Meanwhile, Stalin was planning on turning his guns on Germany, too. German just jumped first, and almost pulled it off. Had the rains in October not been so heavy, Barabrosa would have been in Moscow before the snow and then....shit, different world today, probably. But as it turned out, a lot of the top German Brass knew in Dec of 41 that they couldn't win. Not without the oil and supplies from russia, and then the with US entering the war. That's when you started having plots to remove Hitler forming. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 3:12:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll say it again...which brings us back to Pearl Harbor. Hitler would not have declared war on the U.S. (at least at that time) if not for the Axis agreement with Japan and Italy. But why did Hitler honor the agreement? He didn't honor Molotov-Ribbentrop. Now THAT is an interesting "what if?" scenario. Hitler tells Tojo to go fuck himself after Pearl Harbor. FDR's still blue-balling to get in to the war and help his buddy Joe, but the American people want to fight Japan. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 4:01:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey! Let's build a couple great tunnels under the channel straight from Calais to London! Ja wohl! Er, I mean, brilliant! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think it was the English Channel It Yeah I hope they have a way to blow that sucker up if the Russians or Germans get frisky |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 4:06:44 PM EDT
[#20]
1. American Industry
2. American lives. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 4:12:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The English Channel Resupply from North America via Canada, Lend Lease, and the convoy system. This man gets it My father spent WW2 supplying the Russians via the Persian Gulf and India as a USN gunner on a Merchant Marine Ship. Merchant Marine at a higher casualty rate than any branch of service and took casualties before any of the other branches of service. Before Pearl Harbor. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 4:16:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Hitler and Goering last the Battle of Britain all on their own. Goering and Hitler switching to bombing cities and terror bombing shifting focus away from breaking the RAF sealed the fate of the BOB. RAF when they lost a pilot if he landed safely on the ground not going down with the plane could be in another plane later that day. The Luftwaffe if they lost a pilot they lost trained battle hardened pilots and it took time to get that experience back if they ever could replace some. The Nazis made huge blunders after blunder through out the war that were multiple nails in the coffin because Hitler was an idiot and many of his generals were giant pussies who feared questioning stupid ideas that Hitler came up with.
Invading USSR Losing the 6th Army in Stalingrad Focusing so much on Stalingrad Battle of the Bulge Battle of Britian Not giving Donitz his 300 subs early in the battle of the Atlantic Italy invading Greece Relying on Italy then Italy throwing in the towel making the German cover the south And the list goes on and on the stupid shit they did to lose the war. Hitler and Goering saved many lives by shortening the war repeatedly with their decisions. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 5:11:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree with those who point to the Royal Navy. Without the RAF the navy would have taken huge losses intercepting the German invasion, and RAF fighters allowed the RN to station at least some of the fleet near southeast England where they could battle the German invasion in the first 12 hours. They would have operated at night, just like the Japense running down the slot. The Battle of Britain was about securing Air Superiority of the southern Britian, not the entire Island. The RAF was always going to have a safehaven as German Fighters were too short legged. The navy would base north of German fighter range, sortie in the afternoon, dash into landing zone destroy anything they can find and get out to be out of fighter range by sun up.l The Tribal destroyers were pretty much designed to exactly this. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 6:28:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Romans and Normans invaded England. Brits invaded USA in war of 1812 Yeah, but the Romans took land, not a country, the channel was just an inconvenience, there was no opposing Naval force. it wasn't defended by an "English" Army. And they were several hundred years, if not a thousand years, behind the Romans. 1812 was just a little revenge for the embarrassing defeat a couple of decades earlier and they didn't stay. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:29:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting discussion. The role played by the US at various times would definitely impact. If there were no Lend-Lease or US convoy support, could Britain be supported solely from Canada and elsewhere in the empire with enough food and material to sustain the populace and military viability from the U-boat threat? Our submarine campaign against the Japanese was very effective. Food rationing in UK lasted into the 1950’s. Also, one reason the Hurricane was so effective was the 20mm cannons with exploding shells. IIRC the Spitfires were armed with .303s at the time. At the time of the planned invasion, which was due to happen IF we'd lost the Battle of Britain, both the Spitfire and Hurricane had 8 x .303" Browning machine guns. It was the Hurricane Mk.II C that had the 20mm cannon - four of them!! Another later variant had 12 x .303" Brownings fitted |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:32:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great thing they saved Britain for the Pakistani Occupation. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:32:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit, the Graf Spee tied up their fleet for months. One boat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I didn't know the Germans enjoyed naval dominance over England throught WW2. I better go back and get rid of all my books on the subject. Shit, the Graf Spee tied up their fleet for months. One boat. Thank god he wanted to build surface ships instead of more submarines. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:32:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it was the English Channel This. The Kriegsmarine never had the amphibious capability to mount a cross-channel invasion of the UK. Also, the Hawker Hurricane outnumbered the Spitfire something like 3-1 during the Battle of Britain. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:33:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *Looks at United Kingdom today* Debatable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sir Winston Churchill saved the United Kingdom *Looks at United Kingdom today* Debatable. Can't beheld responsible for the mistakes of future generations. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For all of you WWII bluffs, I highly recommend checking out the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson in Dayton. When I went two years they had the Supermarine Spitfire, don't remember the Hurricane? Incredible WW2 Gallery there. Free admission and it really should be seen in 2 days, IMO. Absolutely. I spent seven hours there and never got to the final hanger. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:37:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While Germany was pretty good at waging war for the short term it’s a good thing Hitler was a shitty commander of the military. He was a lucky motherfucker right up to the fall/ winter of 1941. Running over the top of Poland, the Scandinavian countries, Western Europe and then Eastern Europe in about a year is fucking impressive. Not a good impressive. But impressive. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:37:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Unconquerable resolve of the British people led by a (inebriated) lion
Superior allocation of resources (planes, people because I include the Englishwomen who contributed, material) So long as the RAF denied aerial superiority over England's skies, there would be no Seelowe. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:38:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Meh. The Germans took a leisurely cruise up the Channel in their big ships right under the Brits nose. Here is a video for you.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj-3ntOMLysThat daring operation in which a few fast German warships ran from one safe haven to another. Rather different in character from an invasion in which a bunch of slow transports the Germans didn’t have would have been sitting ducks. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:44:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The radar installations should have been the focus of the Luftwaffe……… bomb this and attack them with V1 and V2 rockets constantly and you blind Britain…….. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1. The Supermarine Spitfire. 2. The Attack on Pearl Harbor. Maybe a reasonably successful evacuation of British/French troops from Dunkirk as well. Losing most of that force would have really hurt the Brits, especially in the short term. Also worth mentioning... radar in Southern England. Without that the RAF would have had a much harder job. The radar installations should have been the focus of the Luftwaffe……… bomb this and attack them with V1 and V2 rockets constantly and you blind Britain…….. V1 and V2 were not in existence during the Battle of Britain. It was a huge mistake to focus on bombing cities while leaving the RAF bases largely unmolested. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:47:19 PM EDT
[#35]
I thought it was Saxe-Coburg Gotha & Battenberg
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:49:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Hermann Goering being an incompetent drug addict was a pretty good factor in Britain's favor.
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:57:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh. The Germans took a leisurely cruise up the Channel in their big ships right under the Brits nose. A dash up the channel is not the same as an opposed landing, and even the dash hit more than one mine. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:59:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryPerhaps instead of posting videos you could look up "naval dominance" - because Germany never had it. Lotta Kriegsmaine penis envy here abouts ... |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:03:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP without searching Google, do you recognize this picture and what it represents? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346870/6280989013_cf4ae814fc_b_jpg-2231354.JPG That’s a 1940 prototype of the Roomba autonomous vacuum cleaner. Wasn’t a big hit until they got the size down and ditched the gas motor. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:07:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a 1940 prototype of the Roomba autonomous vacuum cleaner. Wasn’t a big hit until they got the size down and ditched the gas motor. 
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:08:46 PM EDT
[#41]
1. Spotted Dick
2. SA80 rifle |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:09:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think Hitler was kinda busy by then somewhere in the Soviet Union, freezing his balls off. After the BOB Britain was safe for a long time. Hitler did not have the Navy to cross the channel. As Darth Vader once told Hitler, "If your gonna invade Russia, son - better pack some winter clothes!" |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:11:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This brought the US into the war against Japan, but not against Germany. Germany declared war on US after Pearl Harbor and that's what brought the US into the European war U.S. aviators were already flying combat missions against German naval units and U.S. destroyers were already attacking U-boats well before Pearl Harbor. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:12:16 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure Hitler just wanted a separate peace with Britian so he could keep fighting the Russian Communists. This. Those who controlled the money couldn’t allow that. Thus, Pearl Harbor and UK “honoring” mutual defense pacts. Germany’s biggest mistake was opening a two front war. It was ver before it began. TC |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:14:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Battle of Britain: 10 July – 31 October 1940 Pearl Harbor: December 7, 1941 I think you need to study more. We’re talking about the REAL reasons, not the ‘theatre of justification’. TC |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:16:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it was the English Channel This and the Russian Front |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 8:19:09 PM EDT
[#47]
One thing saved Britain from Nazi occupation:
That the Wehrmacht never had the maritime power or expertise necessary to escort hundreds of thousands of troops across the Atlantic against the Royal Navy. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 9:23:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing saved Britain from Nazi occupation: That the Wehrmacht never had the maritime power or expertise necessary to escort hundreds of thousands of troops across the Atlantic against the Royal Navy. You may be right but obviously you're not familiar with geography. I've been through the English Channel multiple times, I've even been across it in the Wheelhouse of the Dover to Calais Ferry. It isn't that wide and it isn't even that deep. We had to navigate very carefully so as not to run aground on our way into Maasport/Rotterdam. Most of the channel was too shallow for us with a 72' draft. 
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Posted: 1/7/2022 9:30:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The accidental bombing of London on August 24 saved Britain. Yep. Fighter Command was on it's last legs until the RAF retaliation strike on Berlin had the Luftwaffe divert it's assets from airfields and radar sites to London. |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 9:30:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Mostly Hitler.
If Hitler had taken the resources that went into Barbarossa and threw them at England prior to Dec 1941, he could have done it. He saw Russia as the enemy. |
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