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Posted: 2/25/2023 6:22:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good in the sense that there should be a uniform testing and maintenance schedule across the board. Bad , in that its more work for an already over stretched work force. Thanks. I agree with the increased work load on an overstretched trade. I'm also not confident that more govt is the answer but some type of consistency across the industry seems to be necessary. |
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Posted: 2/25/2023 6:30:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People complaining about the toxic waste be transported thru Michigan and Texas are being morons Several aspects of this incident have me further questioning any faith I have left in humanity. Ignorance, grifting, victim mentalities, shameless self-promotion, subterfuge. 
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Posted: 2/25/2023 6:36:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several aspects of this incident have me further questioning any faith I have left in humanity. Ignorance, grifting, victim mentalities, shameless self-promotion, subterfuge. We’re all on borrow time lol |
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Posted: 2/25/2023 6:49:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several aspects of this incident have me further questioning any faith I have left in humanity. Ignorance, grifting, victim mentalities, shameless self-promotion, subterfuge. This is what's leading you to that conclusion!?! |
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Posted: 2/25/2023 8:20:08 PM EDT
[#5]
 East Palestine Train Derailment press conference held amid resident's health concerns |
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Posted: 2/25/2023 10:04:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm also not confident that more govt is the answer but some type of consistency across the industry seems to be necessary. More .gov oversight is not the answer. With respect to detectors, the AAR and WABL are both very well regulated, self-governing entities. This problem with government is that it looks for an answer to a question that wasn’t asked. Honest Q, what do you propose to ‘fix’ this problem that won’t result in more cost for consumers or a slower supply chain? I can think of one but it’s not a guaranteed fix for this incident. |
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Posted: 2/25/2023 10:30:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honest Q, what do you purpose to ‘fix’ this problem that won’t result in more cost for consumers or a slower supply chain? Well...you've got the social media intelligentsia calling for nationalization. |
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Posted: 2/25/2023 11:23:41 PM EDT
[#8]
EPA orders Norfolk Southern to PAUSE cleanup of East Palestine toxic train derailment, despite '102,000 gallons of liquid waste and 4,500 cubic yards of solid waste' still on site
The Environmental Protection Agency ordered the pause, but vowed that removal of the material would resume 'very soon' Norfolk Southern, the rail company, had been solely responsible for the disposal of the waste of the derailed train in East Palestine, Ohio https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11794177/Environmental-Protection-Agency-orders-pause-cleanup-toxic-waste-East-Palestine.html |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 9:22:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EPA orders Norfolk Southern to PAUSE cleanup of East Palestine toxic train derailment, despite '102,000 gallons of liquid waste and 4,500 cubic yards of solid waste' still on site The Environmental Protection Agency ordered the pause, but vowed that removal of the material would resume 'very soon' Norfolk Southern, the rail company, had been solely responsible for the disposal of the waste of the derailed train in East Palestine, Ohio https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11794177/Environmental-Protection-Agency-orders-pause-cleanup-toxic-waste-East-Palestine.html I wonder how loud the NIMBYs would scream if this happened in their backyard and political red tape blocked the transfer of contaminated material... |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 12:07:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Railfan films a derail. Train crew is unaware and keeps on going.
Stars around (16:05) and on.  Train Derails on Camera and Starts Bridge Fire! |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 12:15:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several aspects of this incident have me further questioning any faith I have left in humanity. Ignorance, grifting, victim mentalities, shameless self-promotion, subterfuge. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: People complaining about the toxic waste be transported thru Michigan and Texas are being morons Several aspects of this incident have me further questioning any faith I have left in humanity. Ignorance, grifting, victim mentalities, shameless self-promotion, subterfuge. Amen. This on top of Covid has put me in the same place. This event is going to probably cost me some friendships, because my wife and i are speaking out aganst those who are making the situation much worse for the folks in EP. It's disgusting. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 1:39:26 PM EDT
[#12]
 East Palestine Resident Learns Norfolk Southern Sent GERM CLEANERS Into 100-Year-Old Mother's Home Louis DeAngelis interviewed Jeff, an East Palestine Ohio resident in the home of his 100-year-old mother he evacuated her from after the Norfolk Southern train derailment and explosion. During the interview, Jeff learns from Louis that the cleaning company Norfolk Southern sent into his mother's home--that Jeff thought had done a good job--is actually not HAZMAT certified and is actually only capable of cleaning for germs and bacteria...not petrochemicals or volatile organic compounds. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 2:13:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Railfan films a derail. Train crew is unaware and keeps on going. Stars around (16:05) and on.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQMZPB_rVJ0This is the kind of thing I keep a watch for when I'm riding bicycle trails which parallel a right of way. Along one of my favorite paths that's around 25 miles spread across a regional and a Class 1. Can't legally transmit on AAR channels but I get ahold of the company safety lines via cell phone and inform them of a problem. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 4:52:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the kind of thing I keep a watch for when I'm riding bicycle trails which parallel a right of way. Along one of my favorite paths that's around 25 miles spread across a regional and a Class 1. Can't legally transmit on AAR channels but I get ahold of the company safety lines via cell phone and inform them of a problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Railfan films a derail. Train crew is unaware and keeps on going. Stars around (16:05) and on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQMZPB_rVJ0This is the kind of thing I keep a watch for when I'm riding bicycle trails which parallel a right of way. Along one of my favorite paths that's around 25 miles spread across a regional and a Class 1. Can't legally transmit on AAR channels but I get ahold of the company safety lines via cell phone and inform them of a problem. You are allowed to transmit on non-authorized bands in case of emergency. I'm not sure what the FCC would define as "Emergency", but I think a dragging derailed car they seemed unaware of and trying to call the main number got nowhere, then going direct to crew would fall under a forgiveness of sorts, so long as you didn't continue chatting once the immediate issue was covered. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 5:00:41 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm mostly here to comment on the chemistry/toxicology/environmental side, but am happy to see the railroad SMEs discussions.
Dumb question: Is there a "good" situation where you would see hot bearings and "ignore" them? I would have thought that any bearing running that far above ambient was going to fail soonish? |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 5:06:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm mostly here to comment on the chemistry/toxicology/environmental side, but am happy to see the railroad SMEs discussions. Dumb question: Is there a "good" situation where you would see hot bearings and "ignore" them? I would have thought that any bearing running that far above ambient was going to fail soonish? I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:00:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what's leading you to that conclusion!?! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Several aspects of this incident have me further questioning any faith I have left in humanity. Ignorance, grifting, victim mentalities, shameless self-promotion, subterfuge. This is what's leading you to that conclusion!?! Oh believe me, it’s been being eroded for a long time. This is just more scouring around the foundation. The rampant alarmism, clickbait headlines, retarded conspiracy shit, internet sleuthing, ridiculous claims of health effects and victimization, political opportunism, tribalism, etc. We have as close as we are going to get to a SME in the thread offering unbiased factual info and being dismissed as a “company man”. Objectivity is a blessing, and a curse. No one can articulate how additional carmen inspections or detectors would have 100% prevented this, but we just need more of them for “reasons”. Then you get the opportunists looking to use the incident to further political agendas, job protection, profiteering, etc. It isn’t just gun control advocates who never let a crisis go to waste. This couldn’t have happened to a more deserving railroad than the NS, and they need to be held responsible for making the community reasonably whole, but the emotionally driven vitriol toward them and demands for compensation are just way over the top. It’s all so tiresome. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:05:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm mostly here to comment on the chemistry/toxicology/environmental side, but am happy to see the railroad SMEs discussions. Dumb question: Is there a "good" situation where you would see hot bearings and "ignore" them? I would have thought that any bearing running that far above ambient was going to fail soonish? I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. Or it could have started out cold and warmed up to a stable operating temp within an acceptable range. Ever feel the bearings and brakes on your car after a drive? |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:14:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm mostly here to comment on the chemistry/toxicology/environmental side, but am happy to see the railroad SMEs discussions. Dumb question: Is there a "good" situation where you would see hot bearings and "ignore" them? I would have thought that any bearing running that far above ambient was going to fail soonish? I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. Like I said before, how do these temps compare with the other cars in the train? |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:26:19 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:35:51 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:40:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm mostly here to comment on the chemistry/toxicology/environmental side, but am happy to see the railroad SMEs discussions. Dumb question: Is there a "good" situation where you would see hot bearings and "ignore" them? I would have thought that any bearing running that far above ambient was going to fail soonish? I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. That's what I was getting at when I made the comment regarding delta-delta-T and the detector/bearing desk software which monitors the temps. The other thing to consider is what a "nominal" bearing temp should be. I posted a failure analysis PDF (which Jacon commented on) along with an operating manual from Timken which establishes typical usage and maximum safe parameters for railway roller bearings. In it, anything below 170 degrees F is deemed good to go. Go above, the grease will heat up and begin to evacuate - which leads to a positive feedback thermal regime. So let's say train was kept a-rolling for a while and every HBD between the crew embarkation point and Salem showed nominal limits with a little up-down variance due to curves, hills, whatever can slightly elevate the temperature. We'd term this a continuous running baseline. Then something happened to this particular bearing which caused a runaway thermal situation. If the bearing desk software was doing behavior analytics and not just looking for do-not-exceed levels, it should have fired off an alert of some sort. I still return to the video at Salem. With a bearing that hot (incandescent), what SHOULD a trackside pyro say about its condition? |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:43:23 PM EDT
[#23]
NS will be in the for 1 to 2 billion. Cleanup alone will be 250 million.
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Posted: 2/26/2023 7:51:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryDon't wanna damage RR property but damn that would look nice in a frame. 
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Posted: 2/26/2023 8:05:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh believe me, it’s been being eroded for a long time. This is just more scouring around the foundation. The rampant alarmism, clickbait headlines, retarded conspiracy shit, internet sleuthing, ridiculous claims of health effects and victimization, political opportunism, tribalism, etc. We have as close as we are going to get to a SME in the thread offering unbiased factual info and being dismissed as a “company man”. Objectivity is a blessing, and a curse. No one can articulate how additional carmen inspections or detectors would have 100% prevented this, but we just need more of them for “reasons”. Then you get the opportunists looking to use the incident to further political agendas, job protection, profiteering, etc. It isn’t just gun control advocates who never let a crisis go to waste. This couldn’t have happened to a more deserving railroad than the NS, and they need to be held responsible for making the community reasonably whole, but the emotionally driven vitriol toward them and demands for compensation are just way over the top. It’s all so tiresome. Roger that! |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 8:44:38 PM EDT
[#26]
On a related note...looks like Fritz is on his way out at UP and the hedge fund pushing him out is wanting Vena back.
You can expect even less maintenance being done at UP if Vena shows back up with his Ax and thus more opportunity for derailements.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 8:47:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On a related note...looks like Fritz is on his way out at UP and the hedge fund pushing him out is wanting Vena back. You can expect even less maintenance being done at UP if Vena shows back up with his Ax and thus more opportunity for derailements. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/137019/Screenshot_20230226_174228_Gallery_jpg-2726767.JPG Completely irresponsible and reckless. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 9:58:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NS will be in the for 1 to 2 billion. Cleanup alone will be 250 million. Getting off easy if that’s it. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 10:50:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Oh believe me, it’s been being eroded for a long time. This is just more scouring around the foundation. The rampant alarmism, clickbait headlines, retarded conspiracy shit, internet sleuthing, ridiculous claims of health effects and victimization, political opportunism, tribalism, etc. We have as close as we are going to get to a SME in the thread offering unbiased factual info and being dismissed as a “company man”. Objectivity is a blessing, and a curse. No one can articulate how additional carmen inspections or detectors would have 100% prevented this, but we just need more of them for “reasons”. Then you get the opportunists looking to use the incident to further political agendas, job protection, profiteering, etc. It isn’t just gun control advocates who never let a crisis go to waste. This couldn’t have happened to a more deserving railroad than the NS, and they need to be held responsible for making the community reasonably whole, but the emotionally driven vitriol toward them and demands for compensation are just way over the top. It’s all so tiresome. TBH, this could’ve happened to ANY of the Class Is. In fact, there are other Class Is with less sophisticated detector networks. There’s a TON of BS going around online and in the media, NS this, ECP and Trump that….ZERO, absolutely fucking NONE of it is relevant. I’ll die on this hill, and so far, no one in this thread is listening. Quoted: Like I said before, how do these temps compare with the other cars in the train? Not sure but all bearing temperatures are measured and compared to each other as a normal distribution. Outliers at 2-3 sigma are noted or flagged. Bearings are compared left to right by individual car and at the train level. I don’t know NS’s exact algorithm. Quoted: On a related note...looks like Fritz is on his way out at UP and the hedge fund pushing him out is wanting Vena back. You can expect even less maintenance being done at UP if Vena shows back up with his Ax and thus more opportunity for derailements. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/137019/Screenshot_20230226_174228_Gallery_jpg-2726767.JPG @juan223 do you have a link? |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 10:53:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: NS will be in the for 1 to 2 billion. Cleanup alone will be 250 million. Quoted: Getting off easy if that’s it. Last I heard, they’ve set aside 500 million for casualty expense. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 11:00:34 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 2/26/2023 11:00:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or it could have started out cold and warmed up to a stable operating temp within an acceptable range. Ever feel the bearings and brakes on your car after a drive? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm mostly here to comment on the chemistry/toxicology/environmental side, but am happy to see the railroad SMEs discussions. Dumb question: Is there a "good" situation where you would see hot bearings and "ignore" them? I would have thought that any bearing running that far above ambient was going to fail soonish? I very much questioned that part of the preliminary report. The bearing increased 65f in ten miles. Absent an intervention it seems logical to assume that it's going to increase again and what do you know? It went up 150f in the next 20 miles. Or it could have started out cold and warmed up to a stable operating temp within an acceptable range. Ever feel the bearings and brakes on your car after a drive? |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 11:33:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, but I doubt anything good happens with a railroad bearing at 100F above ambient temp. If ambient is 10 degrees F, the bearing would have been in its safe operating range the night of the derailment. 90 degrees ambient and that much of an excursion is a different matter altogether. |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 11:49:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If ambient is 10 degrees F, the bearing would have been in its safe operating range the night of the derailment. 90 degrees ambient and that much of an excursion is a different matter altogether. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sure, but I doubt anything good happens with a railroad bearing at 100F above ambient temp. If ambient is 10 degrees F, the bearing would have been in its safe operating range the night of the derailment. 90 degrees ambient and that much of an excursion is a different matter altogether. I agree with your reasoning as I mentioned above. Add to the desk system that collates axle count and temps an extra check for average temp of wheels and bearings and then if one increases see what it says in 10 miles and if it goes up more than 20°F over neighbor temperatures, have it send a warning out. It's the difference between checking a chamber with a go/no-go gauge set and measuring at several points with a micrometer to see faults. The changes needed would just be a bit of coding at the server level and absolutely a great deal for them since there's no new hardware or changes to how anything operates. Just watch for ?T changes and if that change changes rapidly in 10 miles over the neighboring axles, send a warning. Profiles of trains starting up could be added in to know when something is just getting moving to not trigger an alarm. The "If it isn't 115°F above ambient, it won't alarm" is showing to be a partially adequate safety measure where it was just 2 degrees too low this time. Since the data is collected and known anyway, use it for all it is worth to fix problems with all sorts of things integrated into the routing system. I know the coders would be screaming about it, I don't think an arbitrary number over ambient is a great solution, but it is an excellent way to get started. This train wreck sucks, it's not Chernobyl and it's not somebody dumping engine oil in their alley. It's just something that unfortunately happened somehow right in the middle of a town. HAZMAT was already involved in fire and the discharge went as smooth as could be expected from the flaming shit sammich they were given. The explosion would have been bigger and with shrapnel if they didn't release pressure with strategically placed puncture charges to get the pressure down and drain tank into a plastic lined trench to minimize the suckage. Knowing what we know now, I don't think anybody did anything wrong going "by the book", but it's clear that Trending of wheels and bearings should be incorporated with the system already in place. In hindsight, this may be preventable, but the wheel was glowing 10 miles earlier. I think the only thing that changed was the location of the train when it derailed if they'd tried to stop in Salem. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:02:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with your reasoning as I mentioned above. Add to the desk system that collates axle count and temps an extra check for average temp of wheels and bearings and then if one increases see what it says in 10 miles and if ti goes up more than 20°F over neighbor temperatures, have it send a warning out. Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with your reasoning as I mentioned above. Add to the desk system that collates axle count and temps an extra check for average temp of wheels and bearings and then if one increases see what it says in 10 miles and if ti goes up more than 20°F over neighbor temperatures, have it send a warning out. All of this is done, and has been done for 10 years, at the server level but the crew is only notified if an Absolute threshold is crossed at the wayside detector. If the person sitting at the bearing desk is issued a trending alarm or a composite/combo alarm, then the dispatcher is contacted and then the crew for instructions. It's the difference between checking a chamber with a go/no-go gauge set and measuring at several points with a micrometer to see faults. The changes needed would just be a bit of coding at the server level and absolutely a great deal for them since there's no new hardware or changes to how anything operates. Just watch for ?T changes and if that change changes rapidly in 10 miles over the neighboring axles, send a warning. Profiles of trains starting up could be added in to know when something is just getting moving to not trigger an alarm. The "If it isn't 115°F above ambient, it won't alarm" is showing to be a partially adequate safety measure where it was just 2 degrees too low this time. Since the data is collected and known anyway, use it for all it is worth to fix problems with all sorts of things integrated into the routing system. I know the coders would be screaming about it, I don't think an arbitrary number over ambient is a great solution, but it is an excellent way to get started. I mentioned this earlier, but the rule sets that govern how and when a RR can condemn (flag and repair) a wheel set for repair are determined by an industry committee, called WABL. This committee is made up of RRs, wheel manufacturers, bearing manufacturers, car owners and car manufacturers. It usually takes unanimous consent to inact new rule sets because lowering thresholds for condemning wheels impacts many people. It raises costs. It lowers fleet availability. It raises the number of railcars needing repair, which slows velocity…and a couple more side affects. Most importantly, it doesn’t always decrease derailment risk. I could start a thread on how the industry has solved one problem with wheels but created an arguably bigger problem as a side affect. Lastly, speed is an important variable when calculating a trending bearing and because trains don’t pass consecutive detectors at the same speed, it adds a significant layer of complexity when determining confidence in a trending bearing temp. Is the bearing trending because it’s going faster or because it’s actually failing? What’s the car weight? Loaded or empty? Both or one can be true. Remember, don’t cry wolf. This train wreck sucks, it's not Chernobyl and it's not somebody dumping engine oil in their alley. It's just something that unfortunately happened somehow right in the middle of a town. HAZMAT was already involved in fire and the discharge went as smooth as could be expected from the shit sammich they were given. The explosion would have been bigger and with shrapnel if they didn't release pressure with strategically placed puncture charges to get the pressure down and drain tank into a plastic lined trench to minimize the suckage. Knowing what we know now, I don't think anybody did anything wrong going "by the book", but it's clear that Trending of wheels and bearings should be incorporated with the system already in place. In hindsight, this may be preventable, but the wheel was glowing 10 miles earlier. I think the only thing that changed was the location of the train when it derailed if they'd tried to stop in Salem. I’m not so certain everything was done by the book. I can think of a few situations where and how this bearing couldve been missed. Only the NTSB report will tell us. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:11:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Residents still experiencing symptoms from chemical spill
 Residents still reporting symptoms after East Palestine derailment | NewsNation Prime |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 1:05:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still return to the video at Salem. With a bearing that hot (incandescent), what SHOULD a trackside pyro say about its condition? @analogkid This is what baffles me slightly. The NTSB noted the fire was from plastic pellets that ignited from a hot AXLE. I’ve heard of previous cases where this has happened on bottom dump or high-flow hoppers. The words axle, wheel and bearing are very distinct terms in railroading, particularly when used in the context of wayside detectors. So either the NTSB was being explicit in their word choice during the press conference or they’re idiots and confused everyone. I hope the former. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 1:27:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @analogkid This is what baffles me slightly. The NTSB noted the fire was from plastic pellets that ignited from a hot AXLE. I’ve heard of previous cases where this has happened on bottom dump or high-flow hoppers. The words axle, wheel and bearing are very distinct terms in railroading, particularly when used in the context of wayside detectors. So either the NTSB was being explicit in their word choice during the press conference or they’re idiots and confused everyone. I hope the former. So what gets the axle that hot? Only thing which comes to mind is bearing seizure then the axle begins to spin in the bearing cone. Galling ensues, and plastic deformation as the assembly becomes hot enough. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 1:53:23 AM EDT
[#39]
 Environmental advocate tells East Palestine residents to prepare for the 'long game' |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 10:44:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what gets the axle that hot? Only thing which comes to mind is bearing seizure then the axle begins to spin in the bearing cone. Galling ensues, and plastic deformation as the assembly becomes hot enough. I posted earlier but you may have missed it. Stuck brake -> wheel rim gets hot -> wheel plate get hot -> axle and bearing. A full set on a loaded 286K lbs car can raise the rim temperature to 800 degrees F. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 10:52:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I posted earlier but you may have missed it. Stuck brake -> wheel rim gets hot -> wheel plate get hot -> axle and bearing. A full set on a loaded 286K lbs car can raise the rim temperature to 800 degrees F. A stuck brake might make sense if the car in question was cut in a short time before the accident, right? Like at the yard ("Motor") I mentioned. Roughly 25mi NNE of the Alliance Junction, which is where the first videos of the conflagration were captured. I don't see it traveling cross-country in that condition. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 10:55:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A stuck brake might make sense if the car in question was cut in a short time before the accident, right? Like at the yard ("Motor") I mentioned. Roughly 25mi NNE of the Alliance Junction, which is where the first videos of the conflagration were captured. I don't see it traveling cross-country in that condition. Not necessarily. Brake valves or brake beams can become stuck at any time for a variety of reasons. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 11:24:52 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:15:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryThe presentation and the letter to the UP board is pretty scathing of Fritz. Read both this morning. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:23:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The presentation and the letter to the UP board is pretty scathing of Fritz. Read both this morning. If Vena gets in, there goes all the new hires they scrambled to get onboard. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:25:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Officials in Texas and Michigan say they were unaware the toxic waste cleanup from the Ohio derailment was being sent to their communities
Story by [email protected] (Sarah Al-Arshani) • Yesterday 10:37 AM 1k Comments The train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, earlier this month released toxic chemicals. Those hazardous materials were being sent to waste facilities in Michigan and Texas. Officials in the two states said they were only made aware of the plan after it was already set. Officials in Michigan and Texas said they were only informed about the plan to send contaminated soil and water from the Ohio train derailment would be sent to them after the plan was already set. "We were not given a heads up on this reported action. Our priority is to always keep the people we represent safe," Michigan Rep. Debbie Dingell said in a statement on Friday. Dingell was responding to an announcement from Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine that said waste from the February 3 Norfolk Southern derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, would be sent to the US Ecology Wayne Disposal, a hazardous waste disposal facility in Michigan. The congresswoman said her office would be making inquiries to the waste company, Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Transportation, Norfolk Southern, and the state of Ohio to "understand what is being shipped, whether these are approved storage facilities, the implications of this decision, and how we ensure the safety of all Michigan residents." |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:46:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh believe me, it’s been being eroded for a long time. This is just more scouring around the foundation. The rampant alarmism, clickbait headlines, retarded conspiracy shit, internet sleuthing, ridiculous claims of health effects and victimization, political opportunism, tribalism, etc. We have as close as we are going to get to a SME in the thread offering unbiased factual info and being dismissed as a “company man”. Objectivity is a blessing, and a curse. No one can articulate how additional carmen inspections or detectors would have 100% prevented this, but we just need more of them for “reasons”. Then you get the opportunists looking to use the incident to further political agendas, job protection, profiteering, etc. It isn’t just gun control advocates who never let a crisis go to waste. This couldn’t have happened to a more deserving railroad than the NS, and they need to be held responsible for making the community reasonably whole, but the emotionally driven vitriol toward them and demands for compensation are just way over the top. It’s all so tiresome. It's getting a LOT of play somewhere. I assume social media. My daughter told me last night that we has "acid rain" last week, when we were out of town and it was from East Palestine. She went on to ask her boyfriend about effects up in a state to our NW. I expressed skepticism, as the prevailing winds would be against it and any waterways connected to states to our NW would flow south, so far as I know. We're in NW OH, BTW. She's not a big one for any news, cable or otherwise, so she's getting this somewhere else. She's also taking it at face value, which means she's getting it from a source she thinks she doesn't have to question. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:54:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Officials in Texas and Michigan say they were unaware the toxic waste cleanup from the Ohio derailment was being sent to their communities Story by [email protected] (Sarah Al-Arshani) • Yesterday 10:37 AM 1k Comments The train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, earlier this month released toxic chemicals. Those hazardous materials were being sent to waste facilities in Michigan and Texas. Officials in the two states said they were only made aware of the plan after it was already set. Officials in Michigan and Texas said they were only informed about the plan to send contaminated soil and water from the Ohio train derailment would be sent to them after the plan was already set. "We were not given a heads up on this reported action. Our priority is to always keep the people we represent safe," Michigan Rep. Debbie Dingell said in a statement on Friday. Dingell was responding to an announcement from Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine that said waste from the February 3 Norfolk Southern derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, would be sent to the US Ecology Wayne Disposal, a hazardous waste disposal facility in Michigan. The congresswoman said her office would be making inquiries to the waste company, Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Transportation, Norfolk Southern, and the state of Ohio to "understand what is being shipped, whether these are approved storage facilities, the implications of this decision, and how we ensure the safety of all Michigan residents." They have almost undoubtedly previously transported material 10 if not 100x worse to those facilities for disposal but now we have to step back and take a second look because “reasons”. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NS will be in the for 1 to 2 billion. Cleanup alone will be 250 million. I bet it will be payed by the tax payers. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 1:01:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's getting a LOT of play somewhere. I assume social media. My daughter told me last night that we has "acid rain" last week, when we were out of town and it was from East Palestine. She went on to ask her boyfriend about effects up in a state to our NW. I expressed skepticism, as the prevailing winds would be against it and any waterways connected to states to our NW would flow south, so far as I know. We're in NW OH, BTW. She's not a big one for any news, cable or otherwise, so she's getting this somewhere else. She's also taking it at face value, which means she's getting it from a source she thinks she doesn't have to question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh believe me, it’s been being eroded for a long time. This is just more scouring around the foundation. The rampant alarmism, clickbait headlines, retarded conspiracy shit, internet sleuthing, ridiculous claims of health effects and victimization, political opportunism, tribalism, etc. We have as close as we are going to get to a SME in the thread offering unbiased factual info and being dismissed as a “company man”. Objectivity is a blessing, and a curse. No one can articulate how additional carmen inspections or detectors would have 100% prevented this, but we just need more of them for “reasons”. Then you get the opportunists looking to use the incident to further political agendas, job protection, profiteering, etc. It isn’t just gun control advocates who never let a crisis go to waste. This couldn’t have happened to a more deserving railroad than the NS, and they need to be held responsible for making the community reasonably whole, but the emotionally driven vitriol toward them and demands for compensation are just way over the top. It’s all so tiresome. It's getting a LOT of play somewhere. I assume social media. My daughter told me last night that we has "acid rain" last week, when we were out of town and it was from East Palestine. She went on to ask her boyfriend about effects up in a state to our NW. I expressed skepticism, as the prevailing winds would be against it and any waterways connected to states to our NW would flow south, so far as I know. We're in NW OH, BTW. She's not a big one for any news, cable or otherwise, so she's getting this somewhere else. She's also taking it at face value, which means she's getting it from a source she thinks she doesn't have to question. I bet it’s the sheer overwhelming quantity being communicated on social media. A few ignoramuses are easy to question and dismiss. A steady drumbeat from thousands or tens of thousands including mainstream sources? Well that many people can’t all be wrong, can they? Plus it sounds really bad. Look at the YouTube videos that RealWar posts here. I guess it’s great the Erin Brockovich finally found the opportunity to get her name back in the public spotlight, though. |
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