[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX600 Engine replacement recall 100,000+ units (Page 6 of 8)
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Quoted: Toyota, unlike GM, Ford and Dodge is being proactive instead of reactive. This is the difference. I know for a fact and from experience GM would've said nothing and acted surprised when 100,000 engines came apart. GM carries their engineering defects over into new model years.  It took a $3.4 billion class action lawsuit to get them to act on their frame rust issues. Their executive team opted to pay a $1.2 billion fine to avoid an investigation and prison time for the unintended acceleration fiasco. But this is different... |
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Quoted: Thanks man. I've heard the rumors, I've been scouring for some objective info. So far, none. Which make me lean towards production and not design. The GCC indications I have so far don't fall outside much either. I’m waiting to see how Toyota/Lexus handles this. From what I hear/see it’s been the techs having to build a long block. My hope would be that they send dealers complete long blocks… |
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Quoted: 360 is very generous for the 4l60. V6s and lighter platforms still trash those transmissions. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4L60E is hot garbage… That’s the biggest homer take in this thread. Factory 4l60e is rated at 360 ft lbs. Most Silverados are rated between 340-380 ftlbs....so a trans that already at the limit from the factory is a recipe for disaster, which the 4l60e is  360 is very generous for the 4l60. V6s and lighter platforms still trash those transmissions. Yep. I've seen 3 of them fail in Astro vans that received regular maintenance and never towed. |
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Quoted: Strange times we live in when the BMW/Toyota GR Supra is more reliable than actual Toyota vehicles. B48/B58 and a ZF8 seems to be a pretty good setup by today's standards. Never thought I'd ever say that. BMW has almost 20 years under their belts making these new types of engines where as Toyota finally just pulled the trigger. That's usually Toyotas game, keep the old proven shit around learn from other manufacturers that make all the mistakes on the new stuff. |
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Quoted: You drive a lot. I just rolled over 18,000 miles on my 2021.  Barring an accident, I expect to be driving this truck until I die. Quoted: Quoted: Just here to say my 2021 5.7 has given me zero issues in all of its 23,000 mikes if ownership.  You drive a lot. I just rolled over 18,000 miles on my 2021. Barring an accident, I expect to be driving this truck until I die. Lol, '24 Chevy(bought in mid 23) 6.6 gas, 18k on odometer used to pull shit, no issues with motor or 10spd trans......but Chevy is garbage and have a 100% failure rate, right. |
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Quoted: Funny how people here mock JD Power when an American made vehicle places well on that list. The 350 Chevy and LS engines might want a word with your Toyotas. Quoted: Quoted: https://i.ibb.co/56BGwWK/IMG-6738.webp I own (1) Toyota and (1) Lexus… ‘04 Tacoma @ 450k ‘06 LX470 @ 300k Both still run great and have the original engine and transmission. Neither have ever needed anything beyond preventative maintenance and replacement of wear items. The current Toyota issues are a product of government regulation more than anything else. Toyota’s last two production v8 engines for full-size vehicles (4.7 2UZ and 5.7 3UR) are arguably the two best V8 engines ever produced in terms of reliability and longevity. Thank government regulation for forcing Toyota to replace them with high stress turbo engines. You cannot defeat the laws of physics. Funny how people here mock JD Power when an American made vehicle places well on that list. The 350 Chevy and LS engines might want a word with your Toyotas. Word, Johnny come lately motors. See how they do on durability and longevity compared to a SBC or LS motor. |
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Quoted: I have a feeling the majority of the failures have already happened. That's just my opinion. The only reason this is getting as much press and AirPlay, as it is is because Toyota is typically such a stand out in the game. If this was one the other manufactures, they would've never admitted a problem and just tried limp dicking their way through it for a lot of years. Instead, Toyota comes out and says well we have a problem boom there's this many vehicles affected. We need some time to figure it out and everybody gasps. Then they really pony up and says new engines for everybody, and 102k of them so far and counting. Now everybody points fingers and says it's junk. If it was GM or Ford they would've just not done anything about it and acted like nothing was happening. It shouldn't have ever happened obviously, but shit happens. Another guy I work with that is a former 6.0 Ford owner was talking about how the new tundra is junk because of the recall. I said dude you gotta stop right there. We gotta have an honest conversation about this. All of the years and years and years of bullshit with 6.0, and they never addressed the problem. Their address of the problem was placing a bigger hunk of shit of an engine in the truck... What I find interesting is the people that don't even have a V35A in their stable seem to be the ones most concerned about this. Only thing I would do different is maybe a hybrid V35A. There's a bunch of of them around here and there's yet to one go down. However, is was kind of bullshit of Toyota to push the hybrid product up higher in trim. I really wanted one in an SR5. Hard to push new boundaries without breaking some eggs. Nobody seems to consider the fact that the V35A is an entirely new territory for power density in a gasoline production vehicle. This is false. The 6.0/6.4L diesel disaster cost ford in excess of a Billion dollars in warranty costs. It led to them severing ties with international and building an inhouse engine because they lost trust in their engine supplier, and it likely cost them billions in lost sales as buyers switched to GM and Ram diesel pickups. Super duty pickups and the F150 that is shares a cab with are the products Ford actually cares about most because that is where the profit is. Toyotas issues are blasted everywhere because it's happening to an enthusiast/lifestyle vehicle and in 2024 there are hundreds if not thousands of media "influencers" that have videos to make and following the developments closely and reporting failures generates views and therefore profits. People stake a part of their image as a Tacoma owner and what it projects to the world about their "outdoor lifestyle". These vehicle purchases are aspirational. Most don't go climb mountains with them, but they can if they want to. They take any failure of their beloved brand personal, and you can see it in this thread people defending Toyota like they are defending their wife's honor. And I say this as a Toyota owner. I don't place my identity in the vehicles I drive and don't give a shit of how other people perceive them, but the majority of Toyota owners do. |
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Quoted: And then they F'ed them [LS] up. BADLY. I was always truly impressed with the LS series until that damned cylinder deactivation crap was designed into it. I'm also of the accord that the gen II GM engine was one of the best and most reliable V6's ever built. 3.6 Chevy v6 has been a pretty bulletproof motor, going back decades. |
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Quoted: I’m waiting to see how Toyota/Lexus handles this. From what I hear/see it’s been the techs having to build a long block. My hope would be that they send dealers complete long blocks… Fuck that. Buy them all back, replace the motor, sell them as CPO. You know how long it is going to take the already overwhelmed dealers to replace engines? I don’t lol. But, it is easy 4-6wks to get an appointment for most everything at Ford and Toyota here. 1wk at Porsche. Not to mention, they aren’t going to give you a loaner that is comparable to what you have, typically. I remember I got a loaner for my M3’s break in service, they have me a Prius (this was my ex’s doing.) You can make a Prius get terrible mpg (remember Top Gear lol) and I did. |
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Quoted: In the mini-truck and too small for real work truck class, youre probably correct. If you actually need a truck for work, not hauling a bag of mulch, the Chevy and Ford are pretty damn good. Quoted: Quoted: And Ford/Chevy/Dodge are all even worse. Enjoy your shitbox In the mini-truck and too small for real work truck class, youre probably correct. If you actually need a truck for work, not hauling a bag of mulch, the Chevy and Ford are pretty damn good. When I need a truck for work, it’s not gonna be something light duty. |
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Quoted: It just goes to show that no one is exempt from some bad engineering or assembly. I know they've seen a lot of use in motorsport but I've never really been a big fan of the hot vee turbo setup, at least as far as packaging/serviceability is concerned. I rode in a coworker's 1794 edition Tundra with the new V6 and it felt very underwhelming. Very noisy and the power delivery was very poor/inconsistent, almost like a turbo lag feeling. The only comparison I have are Ecoboost F-150s and their acceleration feels much smoother and more linear than the Toyota. There's a misconception Toyota has ever been exempt - there's a bunch of examples listed by jhon and others here where - let's stick with truck specific, 3VZ, 1GR, 1KD the States never saw - had significant issues. But TMNA went warranty extension on the 3VZ, revised both these petrol head gaskets and the Global 1KD got new pistons, tho most issues were due to Euro 4. Relatively quickly and after remedies they were solid engines. I have no idea if the V35A will be a decade long problem as some other mfg have become, but I'm not buying trouble before it arrives. Attached File Not sure a "hot V" is Toyota's issue. And tho BMW is notorious all my experience - N63 pretty early and over a number - was pleasantly uneventful. Even oil consumption was pretty subdued. Which goes to show many people have zero issues with problematic engines. Even the worst . I think the official count for the V35A is @ 1000, but there's plenty more that will likely fail, and some still in process so that purely a base. Still is less than 1%. |
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Quoted: https://i.ibb.co/56BGwWK/IMG-6738.webp I own (1) Toyota and (1) Lexus… ‘04 Tacoma @ 450k ‘06 LX470 @ 300k Both still run great and have the original engine and transmission. Neither have ever needed anything beyond preventative maintenance and replacement of wear items. The current Toyota issues are a product of government regulation more than anything else. Toyota’s last two production v8 engines for full-size vehicles (4.7 2UZ and 5.7 3UR) are arguably the two best V8 engines ever produced in terms of reliability and longevity. Thank government regulation for forcing Toyota to replace them with high stress turbo engines. You cannot defeat the laws of physics. Yep. Toyota V8s and pre-AEM GM LS are the best V8 engines ever produced. Followed by the GM 5.7 Vortecs. For years I worked with large market Toyota and GM auto dealers as a consultant inspecting vehicles that came in from auction because most auction buyers were dipshits back then. |
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Quoted: I'm waiting to see how Toyota/Lexus handles this. From what I hear/see it's been the techs having to build a long block. My hope would be that they send dealers complete long blocks Quoted: Quoted: Thanks man. I've heard the rumors, I've been scouring for some objective info. So far, none. Which make me lean towards production and not design. The GCC indications I have so far don't fall outside much either. I'm waiting to see how Toyota/Lexus handles this. From what I hear/see it's been the techs having to build a long block. My hope would be that they send dealers complete long blocks We'll see what's announced official in the letters. Think in all this there's hints. Maybe in the recent part supercessions. The lack of LS500 issue (there's a very small number of failures reported but none I've seen have specifically linked to bearing 1 or even 3 (which is a very low per engage failure mode in Tundras/LX). The bulk of failures reported are within the recall production bracket. The GCC incidence may violate this but I've seen nothing that has so far. Much of what peeps have put out about design - oil routing, overall stress, cradle strength - all spurious when examined. Outside of engineering teams inside TMC, at best, clues and experience over time will give a very good indication of issues. So far there's been nothing counter to Toyotas very specific, and administratively binding NHSTA report. But we do have a lot of speculation, tho I think most is well intended. Despite Goodkat's claim - which is probably the first time anyone in GD has highlighted as positive anything Eric Holder has done - Toyota generally comports itself as well or better as any mfg. Toyota is a victim of its own success. Despite the varied measures, some included in this thread, both fanbois and haters ignore much, focus on the exceptions, weigh info without relative comparison and embrace beliefs without evidence, even when the counters are provided. 5 years from now we'll likely be discussing this as we did the broken camshafts in the URs, tho the V35A impact is much more widespread. But it's very possible we will not. Time will tell.Here's a third party overview of the Toyota acceleration situation, a decade removed. https://www.manufacturing.net/automotive/blog/13110434/the-2009-toyota-accelerator-scandal-that-wasnt-what-it-seemed ETA: Here's the Malcolm Gladwell podcast mentioned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsEkusKhKRQ To be fair Consumer Reports and Eric Holder and the DoJ says he's wrong |
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Quoted: It just goes to show that no one is exempt from some bad engineering or assembly. I know they've seen a lot of use in motorsport but I've never really been a big fan of the hot vee turbo setup, at least as far as packaging/serviceability is concerned. I rode in a coworker's 1794 edition Tundra with the new V6 and it felt very underwhelming. Very noisy and the power delivery was very poor/inconsistent, almost like a turbo lag feeling. The only comparison I have are Ecoboost F-150s and their acceleration feels much smoother and more linear than the Toyota. We traded the wife's 2017 F150 3.5 ecoboost because the 120k warranty was about gone. (got over 5k in Ford maintenance from that 1700 dollar warranty. Mostly cam phasers) The 3.4 in the tundra is every bit as good as that ecoboost. Get a little better fuel economy in the tundra too. The one big thing I miss about the Ford is the flat rear floor. No trans tunnel. Really nice for flipping up the seats and letting the dogs in the back. We're outside the recall window for now, but we will see if that changes. |
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Quoted: Yep. Toyota V8s and pre-AEM GM LS are the best V8 engines ever produced. Followed by the GM 5.7 Vortecs. For years I worked with large market Toyota and GM auto dealers as a consultant inspecting vehicles that came in from auction because most auction buyers were dipshits back then. Quoted: Quoted: https://i.ibb.co/56BGwWK/IMG-6738.webp I own (1) Toyota and (1) Lexus '04 Tacoma @ 450k '06 LX470 @ 300k Both still run great and have the original engine and transmission. Neither have ever needed anything beyond preventative maintenance and replacement of wear items. The current Toyota issues are a product of government regulation more than anything else. Toyota's last two production v8 engines for full-size vehicles (4.7 2UZ and 5.7 3UR) are arguably the two best V8 engines ever produced in terms of reliability and longevity. Thank government regulation for forcing Toyota to replace them with high stress turbo engines. You cannot defeat the laws of physics. Yep. Toyota V8s and pre-AEM GM LS are the best V8 engines ever produced. Followed by the GM 5.7 Vortecs. For years I worked with large market Toyota and GM auto dealers as a consultant inspecting vehicles that came in from auction because most auction buyers were dipshits back then. Think this is pretty fair. For a long time in very long term QRD circles the mantra was GM and Ford Full size Trucks, Honda Cars and Toyota anything. Much has upset the apple cart here. |
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Quoted: For a long time in very long term QRD circles the mantra was GM and Ford Full size Trucks, Honda Cars and Toyota anything. Much has upset the apple cart here. Until this timeline I wouldn't have negotiated an additional five years' worth of Toyota extended warranty like I did yesterday. Attached File |
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Quoted: Until this timeline I wouldn't have negotiated an additional five years' worth of Toyota extended warranty like I did yesterday. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69748/1000014025_jpg-3279110.JPG Quoted: Quoted: For a long time in very long term QRD circles the mantra was GM and Ford Full size Trucks, Honda Cars and Toyota anything. Much has upset the apple cart here. Until this timeline I wouldn't have negotiated an additional five years' worth of Toyota extended warranty like I did yesterday. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69748/1000014025_jpg-3279110.JPG Going Platinum VSA as well. Your lady friend should be happy. |
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Quoted: Until this timeline I wouldn't have negotiated an additional five years' worth of Toyota extended warranty like I did yesterday. There's too much tech to go wrong nowadays, to not get a good extended warranty. FWIW, I bought an 04 Mazda, surprisingly, back 04. I got lucky with the extended warranty. They pissed us off so bad on the first offer, without so much as a word, the wife and I got up at the exact same time to leave. The sales guy says give them one more chance, and they came back with a killer deal, and threw in a 100K Mazda extended warranty, that even covered tire damage. We didn't get all the bugs out of that car until about 95K, and it had no tech to speak of. That has always stuck with me. Jay |
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Quoted: Since no-one can build a vehicle with an engine and automatic transmission that stands up to Arfcom requirements, I believe it's time for Arfcom to finally come home and embrace the simplicity of the EV. 800 HP, 800 torques, 80 MPG, and 800,000 mile transmission fluid changes. |
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I’m very interested in what Toyota is going to supply to the dealers. The customer letter that is in the mail has one small correction from the initial letter. Changed from “ you will be notified when the remedy is available” to “All the affected vehicles will have a new engine…free of charge.” The engine swaps are not (or shouldn’t) be carried out by techs that aren’t engine repair certified. Example, my dealer has about 30 mechanics. 7 of the lot are allowed to do the recall. |
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Quoted: I’m very interested in what Toyota is going to supply to the dealers. The customer letter that is in the mail has one small correction from the initial letter. Changed from “ you will be notified when the remedy is available” to “All the affected vehicles will have a new engine…free of charge.” The engine swaps are not (or shouldn’t) be carried out by techs that aren’t engine repair certified. Example, my dealer has about 30 mechanics. 7 of the lot are allowed to do the recall. I'm surprised it's that many. |
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Family has had five Lexus’, all have been outstandingly reliable although the fifth is very new and too early to say yet how it will be longterm. The beauty in Lexus isn’t the tech, the performance, the style, or even the luxury…it’s the reliability, and they achieve that by developing and sticking with heavily refined and tested powertrains. Their 4.0 and 4.3 liter V8’s, and especially their 3.0/3.3/3.5 V6’s, are a great example. But being forced into forced induction to meet emissions is hurting that reliability. |
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Quoted: Do we have any Toyota dealer employees on Arfcom? Besides myself, I think I have seen someone that is a parts guy post, and maybe a Lexus tech? My Lexus service manager had a all employee meeting one morning because a porter told a customer we were 'backed up' and couldn't do an oil change. He was very agitated, he said we may have lost a customer to Jiffy Lube because of this. He then told all of us, no matter what the customer asks for to never ever say no. He drove that point home too. He told us 'no' is an end game and should never be part of our vocabulary at Lexus and that no matter what we said 'yes' to when we spoke with our customers we would never be fired or disciplined. He said we might have a talk afterwards. Lexus is serious about customer satisfaction. |
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Quoted: I’m waiting to see how Toyota/Lexus handles this. From what I hear/see it’s been the techs having to build a long block. My hope would be that they send dealers complete long blocks… Not Toyota, but I do live in dealer shop land. We have engines that come complete to the wiring harness, just missing accessories and belts. We have engines that come as built long blocks, need manifolds/harness/mounts/etc swapped over. The techs will be fine, they do it for a living. I believe the '23 Tundra in my driveway will be a getting an engine 
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Quoted: Not Toyota, but I do live in dealer shop land. We have engines that come complete to the wiring harness, just missing accessories and belts. We have engines that come as built long blocks, need manifolds/harness/mounts/etc swapped over. The techs will be fine, they do it for a living. I believe the '23 Tundra in my driveway will be a getting an engine Quoted: Quoted: I'm waiting to see how Toyota/Lexus handles this. From what I hear/see it's been the techs having to build a long block. My hope would be that they send dealers complete long blocks Not Toyota, but I do live in dealer shop land. We have engines that come complete to the wiring harness, just missing accessories and belts. We have engines that come as built long blocks, need manifolds/harness/mounts/etc swapped over. The techs will be fine, they do it for a living. I believe the '23 Tundra in my driveway will be a getting an engine Ahh shit man, that sucks |
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Quoted: Do we have any Toyota dealer employees on Arfcom? Besides myself, I think I have seen someone that is a parts guy post, and maybe a Lexus tech? There’s quite a few. Mostly franchise side and a few others, elsewhere. What are you looking for, the dealer peeps will check in, I’d be surprised if any of the corp will. |
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Quoted: Correct, I'm hoping that the end of the Chevron deference will let the consumers determine the engines again.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Toyota never was what their fan boys made them out to be. They are but gov intervention is what it boils down to. Gov wants certain mpg’s so they had to stray away from what they knew to new tech. I mean the 4.0 was going on 20 years since it came out and the v8’s too. Correct, I'm hoping that the end of the Chevron deference will let the consumers determine the engines again. 
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Quoted: Agreed. That seems like an awful lot of heavy line guys. Not sure I have ever seen that. Maybe they qualified a few more over a zoom meeting or online class. Quoted: Quoted: I'm surprised it's that many. Agreed. That seems like an awful lot of heavy line guys. Not sure I have ever seen that. Maybe they qualified a few more over a zoom meeting or online class. There are actually more heavy line techs than those 7, the others just aren’t Toyota certified (guys that recently came from other brands or independent shops). They can’t do warranty work or recalls. Certification requires in person instruction at the regional training center in addition to online classes. There is usually more than enough work to keep everyone happy, average cars through the shop per day is about 150. |
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Quoted: Ahh shit man, that sucks I believe it’s up to 8 recalls at this point. 2 or 3 for the same fuel line, 1 for a tonneau cover my truck doesn’t have. I’ll hold out and get them all knocked out at once. Hopefully they’ll have some updated software for the throttle lag and radio, and maybe even a fix for the rattling headliner by then. We love this truck, but it rattles worse than the ‘83 it’s parked next to. The engine is quiet (for now). |
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Quoted: There’s quite a few. Mostly franchise side and a few others, elsewhere. What are you looking for, the dealer peeps will check in, I’d be surprised if any of the corp will. Dealer peeps, yessir. I’m mostly just interested in what other dealers have seen as far as failures. I doubt we will get much info from the corporate side, I hear there have been some leaks of confidential material and Toyota has clamped down pretty hard on releasing info to even regional level reps. |
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Quoted: Dealer peeps, yessir. I'm mostly just interested in what other dealers have seen as far as failures. I doubt we will get much info from the corporate side, I hear there have been some leaks of confidential material and Toyota has clamped down pretty hard on releasing info to even regional level reps. Quoted: Quoted: There's quite a few. Mostly franchise side and a few others, elsewhere. What are you looking for, the dealer peeps will check in, I'd be surprised if any of the corp will. Dealer peeps, yessir. I'm mostly just interested in what other dealers have seen as far as failures. I doubt we will get much info from the corporate side, I hear there have been some leaks of confidential material and Toyota has clamped down pretty hard on releasing info to even regional level reps. Very much so. Even outside the States. This isn't just a TMNA cock up. |
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Quoted: Quoted: There's quite a few. Mostly franchise side and a few others, elsewhere. What are you looking for, the dealer peeps will check in, I'd be surprised if any of the corp will. https://c.tenor.com/gaEpIfzxzPEAAAAC/tenor.gif Attached File Damn that made me laugh, I'm not IDing anyone, tho I have a pretty good idea who is who from content and a couple names leave no doubt. The few I know personally don't post often here, or ever. Guy from Toyota Tsusho sure as shit won't prairie dog now. |
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Alacrity posted this above... Really good information on the "stuck accelerator". Worth the listen. ETA: Here's the Malcolm Gladwell podcast mentioned  Blame Game | Revisionist History | Malcolm Gladwell |
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Quoted: Alacrity posted this above... Really good information on the "stuck accelerator". Worth the listen. ETA: Here's the Malcolm Gladwell podcast mentioned  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsEkusKhKRQhKRQLike all situations there's a number of takes. The most interesting is a contrast between the DoJ treatment of Toyota, and GM a year later, after they accepted responsibility for killing 124 Americans. Suppose having a financial interest in the corporation you're prosecuting (to be fair .gov divested two years before the final settlement) as well as a political alliance with labor, impacts the arc and end. Remember, Mary Barra testified to Congress she had no idea why it took a decade to fix in her testimony. Toyotas recalls started shortly after the initial NHSTA reports, 3 years before Akio arrived for his Congressional mea culpa. |
| Good on them. Better than hiding or downplaying the problems like Ford would, and I’m a Ford guy. I drove a new rental Tundra and liked it, minus all the tech and their back seat floorboard, but was not considering one because of the reported engine problems. If I were in the market for a new 1/2 ton, I’d consider one now or the f-150 5.0. |
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Quoted: Yep. I've seen 3 of them fail in Astro vans that received regular maintenance and never towed. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4L60E is hot garbage That's the biggest homer take in this thread. Factory 4l60e is rated at 360 ft lbs. Most Silverados are rated between 340-380 ftlbs....so a trans that already at the limit from the factory is a recipe for disaster, which the 4l60e is 360 is very generous for the 4l60. V6s and lighter platforms still trash those transmissions. Yep. I've seen 3 of them fail in Astro vans that received regular maintenance and never towed. The good news is they were inexpensive to repair/replace because everyone had one and aftermarket parts were sometimes better than the OEM. BTW the worst "car" I ever owned was a Toyota Tercel 4WD wagon that was a hand me down from my parents. What a craptasticly weird transmission design. |
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Quoted: I’m that guy.  And we have owned only 2 Toyota products in the time since. And one of them was under the Geo brand from 1995. How have domestic brands improved over the last 20-30 years? If I was in the market for a relatively efficient family car or small to mid-size SUV, what domestic brands and models would you recommend for someone who might expect it to go for 200,000 - 300,000 miles without major repairs? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FPNI. Toyota fanboys are delusional. And I say this as a Toyota owner. Or, we’ve all bought expensive and problematic shitboxes from domestic manufacturers and when we hit upon Toyota, our lives became less shitty? I get that, but these threads are always filled with comments from posters who have been single brand drivers forever. They have no current ownership experiences with other brands, but they're happy to say they all suck based on their experiences from...20? 30? years ago. It's also frustrating when you own a Toyota that actually winds up being less reliable than the domestic branded vehicles you also own, which has been my experience. I’m that guy. And we have owned only 2 Toyota products in the time since. And one of them was under the Geo brand from 1995. How have domestic brands improved over the last 20-30 years? If I was in the market for a relatively efficient family car or small to mid-size SUV, what domestic brands and models would you recommend for someone who might expect it to go for 200,000 - 300,000 miles without major repairs? *crickets* |
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Quoted: The Big 3 have never really been good at making efficient cars or CUVs. Hell... all three have completely abandoned the subcompact, compact, and midsize car segments while their Japanese and Korean competitors are still making money in those classes. These same companies have been much more competitive with trucks and 4x4s, and they're the only game in town if you want a muscle car or something 3/4 ton and larger. That’s a good assessment. See also: The Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator. The domestic brands are only competitive where they have no real competition.
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