West Germany purchased test lots of the FAL in 1957 and were very happy with the guns. They called their version the Gewehr- 1 or G1. The government had every intention of adopting the rifle to completely rearm the Bundeswehr, Germany’s defensive army.



However, when the Germans approached the Belgian management of FN to obtain a manufacturing license, it was summarily denied. It is pretty clear that the denial was the result of grudges held against the Germans for the Nazi invasion and occupation of Belgium.



The Germans began to look for other options and decided to go with the Spanish CETME rifle, which was based on German designs brought to Spain by refugees of the Nazi arms industry. The West German government easily obtained permission to manufacture and market the CETME rifle and soon had it in production by Rheinmetall and Heckler & Koch (HK) as the Gewehr 3 or G3.



HK marketed the G3 aggressively against the FAL. The G3’s major appeal was its relatively inexpensive tooling and the ease to manufacture in an unsophisticated or small industrial base. Also, licenses to manufacture it were easier and cheaper to obtain.



As a result of this aggressive marketing by HK, many countries that perhaps would have adopted the FAL, instead opted for the G3.  Some 38 countries that purchased FALs ended up switching to G3s, not because the gun was necessarily better, but largely because it was cheaper.



Very likely, if the West Germans had been licensed to produce the FAL in the first place, they would have instead marketed the FAL around the world and the FAL would have dominated much more than it did.



Nevertheless, the FAL was still used by more nations than the G3, even though the G3 was manufactured in slightly more countries.



The G1 rifle was given to Turkey which eventually led to them being brought over here as parts kits.....After decades of abuse.

Back in 86 we- B 1/30 Inf- were doing a East German border tour while 3/7 Cav was doing Bradley gunnery at Graf. We were stationed at Hindenburg? Kaserne in Coburg, home of the German Border Guard ( Bundesgrenzshutz).  A BGS guy contacted one of our SFC's, said " You guys want to do some shooting? ".  He grabbed me and another guy and off we went to the range. We walked down to the shooting points, where there were tables with ammo and rifles on shooting mats. We were expecting G3 ''s but hey- FN's! Cool! So we shot our G-Einz rifles,I seem to recall we did pretty well with them.

From just reading the title of the thread... I knew it was a saigapooh one!

Never had a chance to shoot either weapons

But based off of reading and YouTube vids I think I would go with the FAL.

The G3 and the copies look good and most of the time can be found cheaper then a FAL.


Would love a 18inch FAL with a folding stock or a Cemtec (what I could afford) with a rail that I have looked at on Atlantic's website.

Don't forget the G2, Sig 510.

Whhle I like the Fal better (wish I still  had mine ).... And I think the G3/H&K 91 or whatever, is like shouldering a 2 x 4  with a pistol grip, I'd love to have a G3 clone with the Namibian stock set!

That shit is sexy!

The G3 was also manufactured in much greater numbers, and the users have held on to it for longer.

G3 users were cheapskates and that's why they bought the G3 in the first place.

Concur with you SaigamanTX.  If FN only licensed the Germans, there'd no be no G-3.

The G3 is also more accurate.

Anybody that actually shoots both knows the FAL is superior.  Not overly so, but enough to matter.
 

I will say the G3 is more reliable with shitty ammo.  Thus another reason a lot of turd world countries used it.

lol

no

Lol.

Yes.

no

There was rather more to it than just "the result of grudges". FN was set to do the deal with the Germans, and then something happened that changed their attitude. Supposedly, it was all the result of a particularly arrogant German diplomat/negotiator at a dinner or party celebrating the finalization of the deal, who said some "unfortunate things" about the Belgians, and hey! Presto!, Belgium decided to say "Fuck you..." to the Germans.

There was an awful lot of chicanery going on at the time. The Germans were also looking at the AR-10, as an alternative, but similar issues arose with the Dutch. Some have intimated that the entire deal with the G3 and HK really happened because the Germans didn't want to be beholden to anyone else for their infantry rifles, and because they wanted a native German company to provide them.

So, yeah, the Belgians had a grudge, but the Germans weren't exactly innocent bystanders or victims. I heard one story that the guy who did the most to piss the Belgians off later became a major beneficiary of HK, receiving stock and other considerations. There's so much BS surrounding this stuff that I doubt we'll ever hear the "real story" behind it all--You lift a rock, looking into things, and a dozen stories pop out from under it, most of them being mutually contradictory in the details. About the only "ground truth" behind it all is that the Germans wanted a native-born rifle, and did what they could to ensure that it happened. You have to remember the context that this all took place in, as well--German rearmament was incredibly controversial, and the Germans were operating under some severe constraints, diplomatically. Part of the thing with the FN was that the Belgian government basically signed on to the whole "give the Germans their guns back" thing, with the understanding that they'd buy Belgian, and that purchase/manufacturing leverage would give the Belgians some control over German behavior. Which the Germans didn't want... So, they sent a guy whose behavior was likely to piss off FN to do the negotiations, and here we are.

Whole thing took place in the shadows, and the reality of what went down isn't likely to be heard, ever. I swear, I've heard so many different tales about the small arms procurements in that era that the whole thing starts to look really, really corrupt. On multiple levels--Look at the deal with Artillerie Inrichtingen and the AR-10, for examples. They had a really good product, but the deal to provide the Dutch Army went to FN because someone in the Dutch defense ministry just didn't like AI, for reasons going back to the WWI era.

Or the G4, Dutch AR-10.

The G3 is more accurate, easier to mount optics to, and it's more reliable.

.. Interesting historic account

FAL should of been left in 7.92x33

I posted a question some time ago about the Israelis providing the UZI to Germany after the war, I understand it comes down to the mighty dollar, but fuck, if anyone had a grudge against the Germans it could have been Israel.

Our DMRs are more accurate than 2 MOA, and I've never noticed any flyers that weren't due to the shooter.

The FAL didn't perform as well as the G3 in our trials, though I will concede that it has better ergos.

I agree that they're both good.

I like that I have ~75+ G3 magazines for what 10 or less FAL mags would have cost me.

Now that PTR is putting them out with the welded top rail and paddle release to boot, I'd pick the G3 over the FAL every time here in the US.

Easier to mount optics, cheaper magazines, lighter, shorter, more modular...

Now if only Geissele would make rails for them....

We/NATO had forces using G3 as late as the current war on terror in the middle east. No one brought FALs to fight al qaeda but the Sweds and Nords brought out there G3s/AK4/borka borkas to kick some ass.

We're still upgrading some of ours.

Thread needs more porn.

Looking forward to stamping my G3k clone to keep my 18" gun company.

They should have selected the Dutch Artillerie Inrichtingen AR10

Wrong. Danish FAL rifles were given to the Kurds. They had been using them till that point but NATO didn't directly use them just gave them out to the Kurds.

 

I've owned both the HK & FAL, and I will say that I have a still have soft spot in my heart for my dear old HK-91.

It was a heavy beastie, but it shot like a house on fire and never once bobbled, no matter what surplus or commerical ammo I fed it.

BIGGER_HAMMER

In regards to the OP's pic, I like how PFC Snuffy there is busy digging a hole with a stick out of boredom.

Some things are universal.  

They'd take anything that was being handed out, so that's not a great comparison.  The Kurds would use Taurus handguns if they were given free crates of them.

Variations of this story are found all over the place:

"Small Arms of the World"
"The FAL Rifle"
P
Even books dealing primarily with the Browning High Power pistol mention it. ("FN Browning Pistols " and "The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol"

There is enough truth to the story given the historical timelines that it must be accurate. It also seems to jibe with how Germany eventually ended up with the G3.

At the end of the day, both are great Battle Rifles and I would have zero hesitation in using either one for conflict resolution.

As a side note, for those into the history and development of small arms, check out Collector Grade Publications. They have lots of pricy but fantastic books.

I much prefer the G3 to the FAL but own both. FN really shot themselves in both feet with their decision,they  cost themselves the sales and licensing of prossibly something up to 15 million guns when considering  many FAL users would likely have adopted FNCs with the switch to 5.56. I say FN but you could actually blame the Belgian government,who at the time was still negotiating the annexation of a few bits of Germany as reparations,for put the pressure on.

"Battle rifle" competition = Special Olympics.

Yes

What kind of optic/rail/stock is that?

Anyway, it will be good enough for Russians landing on Gotland.

Hensoldt fixed 4x/Spuhr/Spuhr

It was a matter of timing

the bundeswehr were very impressed with the AR10,  but with the Soviets breathing down western Europe back, they didn't want to wait 3 years for the AR10 production to ramp up

 In that case,the M14 takes gold.

He's not digging a hole.  That's a stupid waste of a soldier's time and just reeks of work.  That troop is doing something truly universal...

He's drawing a dick.

And off-camera, unbeknownst to the soldier, there is an NCO about to say, "Private, if you've got nothin' to do, I'll find something for ya..."  That shit goes all the way back to Julius Caesar's day

Good good let the butthurt flow

 

One is a sophisticated machined block of forged steel, the other is a folded piece of tin spot welded together.
ed;


Big ol' hunk of wood makes for a good club.




 



 

Immigrant

H&K paid better bribes than FN to FMS purchasing agencies, and until about 15 years ago, bribes to foreign government officials weren't technically illegal and even deductible for corporate tax purposes under German law.