[ARCHIVED THREAD] - TDI will No Longer Allow the use of SIG P320 Pistols at their classes.. (Page 3 of 4)
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Quoted: Tier 1 units carry 320's ? My son is in SF, 1st Group. They all have G19's. I have no clue what any of the other units use. I believe it is mission dependent regarding if they/he carries. I've never asked him that. Or what condition they carry in. They shoot quite a bit. A little less than a few years ago (budget constraints). I believe he said the $$$ is starting to pick back up again since the election...fyi Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've never heard of TDI. They must be a big deal. Quoted: Because they, generally, don't issue the weapons, don't carry them loaded, and likely don't even train with them. Wut? I'll just preempt the argument you've used in three or four threads now: No, Tier 1 military units do not carry loaded 320s in holsters for more hours than a regular beat cop does. Hell, they don't carry them loaded in holsters more than an MP standing at the guard shack at Camp BFE does. And no, not hearing reports of them going off in Delta's holsters does not mean it hasn't happened, nor would such an instance, if it did occur, "make it all the way to the White House". Tier 1 units carry 320's ? My son is in SF, 1st Group. They all have G19's. I have no clue what any of the other units use. I believe it is mission dependent regarding if they/he carries. I've never asked him that. Or what condition they carry in. They shoot quite a bit. A little less than a few years ago (budget constraints). I believe he said the $$$ is starting to pick back up again since the election...fyi They have M17s, but the individual SF guy varies on whether he carries the Sig or Glock. CD has said in other threads it's mainly a few of the younger new guys who carry the Sig but most carry the Glock. |
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Quoted: That doesn't fix the issue. The M17/M18/320 manual safety only locks the trigger. It doesn't lock the sear, and it doesn't lock the striker block safety - which is the part that is INOP on an unknown percentage of SIG P320s, including apparently the one that went off in Japan in a holster, and some of the Marine Corps M17s. No working striker safety, you're walking around w/ a cocked & unlocked 1911 w/ the grip safety pinned & no Series 80 drop safety - how much do you trust a Indian MIM sear? SIG upgraded the 320 FCU design with a sear disconnect. That was part of the requirement for the ICE contract. With that said, I've played with a few of the 320's and own one myself. I like the gun but it's not in my carry rotation just because of its size. But I wouldn't have an issue carrying one if I had to. |
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Quoted: Tier 1 units carry 320's ? My son is in SF, 1st Group. They all have G19's. I have no clue what any of the other units use. I believe it is mission dependent regarding if they/he carries. I've never asked him that. Or what condition they carry in. They shoot quite a bit. A little less than a few years ago (budget constraints). I believe he said the $$$ is starting to pick back up again since the election...fyi DEVGRU does. SF guys have G19's and 320's. A member here is an SF guy and posts in tech. He posted that he primarily uses his 320 now days. It is up to the individual. He told me that he won't get involved in the GD mud slinging but has not seen any issues. He did state if there were any issues, they would be yanked and an investigation through all SFGs. I have spoke to a guy recently retired from Red Squadron who was there when they tested and issued (2018/2019) their 320's. He said if there was a hint of an issue, or one "just going off" they would be shelved immediately. He also said that they put everything through hell and if it didn't hold up, it didn't get issued. |
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I would quote folks, but they pretty much proved the point all on their own. Maybe we will get some more useful information at some point, but the sig hatred drumbeat appears will never cease, no matter the outcome. We still do not have all the information needed to resolve any issues. The mystery is still unfolding, and until it is complete, we should be cautious with how we react, while also being careful/safe/prudent. Or we can act like what folks accuse sig of… |
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Quoted: I would quote folks, but they pretty much proved the point all on their own. Maybe we will get some more useful information at some point, but the sig hatred drumbeat appears will never cease, no matter the outcome. We still do not have all the information needed to resolve any issues. The mystery is still unfolding, and until it is complete, we should be cautious with how we react, while also being careful/safe/prudent. Or we can act like what folks accuse sig of… 
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Quoted: It's pretty normal for folks to have weird emotional attachment to stuff. I think that's the problem. Some refuse to believe it and that's alright, their opinion. Plus it isn't a widespread issue if we are being honest. It clearly happens. It clearly needs to be addressed. But I don't believe every 320 is in danger of UD'ing. But the design is flawed since it allows it to happen. Quoted: Quoted: I frankly don't understand the response from people who dismiss these issues. It strikes me as simple stubbornness. It's a piece of questionable safety gear when there are dozens(?) of comparable pistols that don't have a cloud hanging over them. Plastic striker pistols are damn near interchangeable and most of us already own several. That has to be it. If I bought a fire extinguisher and the company admitted like, “look, there’s a very small chance this thing will spontaneously set your dick on fire, even when you aren’t using it,” I would probably just go ahead and buy another model of fire extinguisher. |
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Quoted: SIG upgraded the 320 FCU design with a sear disconnect. That was part of the requirement for the ICE contract. With that said, I've played with a few of the 320's and own one myself. I like the gun but it's not in my carry rotation just because of its size. But I wouldn't have an issue carrying one if I had to. Quoted: Quoted: That doesn't fix the issue. The M17/M18/320 manual safety only locks the trigger. It doesn't lock the sear, and it doesn't lock the striker block safety - which is the part that is INOP on an unknown percentage of SIG P320s, including apparently the one that went off in Japan in a holster, and some of the Marine Corps M17s. No working striker safety, you're walking around w/ a cocked & unlocked 1911 w/ the grip safety pinned & no Series 80 drop safety - how much do you trust a Indian MIM sear? SIG upgraded the 320 FCU design with a sear disconnect. That was part of the requirement for the ICE contract. With that said, I've played with a few of the 320's and own one myself. I like the gun but it's not in my carry rotation just because of its size. But I wouldn't have an issue carrying one if I had to. That would fix it. You or anyone else have links to that update? |
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Quoted: I’ve never heard of TDI. Should we? So we've all by now seen (well, that's not fair, of course only a small portion of people actually have seen) - the video of the holster discharge during the class training session last month. With "is that a F%^$%^ P320?" as the instructor was walking to the student. That guy banned P320's from his company's classes now. And So did TDI now. But they're both in Ohio, so I'm not really sure if it's basically the same guy, or influenced by the same guy - of if there really are multiple independent agencies starting to ban it. Well. Actually, I think that's actually yes - there are now multiple other agencies starting to ban P320. Numerous city PD departments are now banning it, and I know for sure of at least 3 training academy's that now ban the P320 (Video Guy, TDI, and some other youtuber/instructor - FWIW). At this point, it's a liability, and we'll likely see more. I'll say this, if I'm the insurance adjustor setting rates: there will be a clause were either P320's are banned, or you're paying more. Even if it's not true (it is) but even if false - do you want to be the money-bag insurance company in the courtroom defending your clients continued use of the P320? |
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Quoted: They have M17s, but the individual SF guy varies on whether he carries the Sig or Glock. CD has said in other threads it's mainly a few of the younger new guys who carry the Sig but most carry the Glock. Hmm. Thanks. All I know is what his ODA carries. That could of changed since we last talked on the subject. most of his team has retired, gone back to the "School House" or to a B team. |
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Quoted: DEVGRU does. SF guys have G19's and 320's. A member here is an SF guy and posts in tech. He posted that he primarily uses his 320 now days. It is up to the individual. He told me that he won't get involved in the GD mud slinging but has not seen any issues. He did state if there were any issues, they would be yanked and an investigation through all SFGs. I have spoke to a guy recently retired from Red Squadron who was there when they tested and issued (2018/2019) their 320's. He said if there was a hint of an issue, or one "just going off" they would be shelved immediately. He also said that they put everything through hell and if it didn't hold up, it didn't get issued. He probably mentioned that they had a choice. I may have missed that. I can understand him staying out of GD. 90% of the SF guys I've met are low key(HSLD) So true. Makes sense. Thanks |
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Quoted: Probably 99% of 320s have working striker blocks. 1st problem is, we don't know that percentage. 2nd problem is, we don't know if the striker blocks fail over time, or are defective from the factory. If your pistol passes the punch test this morning 10 out of 10 times, is it safe? We don't know the mechanism causing the striker blocks to fail. Does the punch test damage the striker block? We don't know that either. The punch test could make the striker block more likely to fail. It could make the striker more likely to break and fail to fire. Even if your striker block isn't working, your striker is unlikely to slip off the sear and shoot you in the leg. You need two failures to become a statistic. But this is one of those extremely low statistical failure rates w/ a catastrophic outcome - same reason we don't shelter under trees in a thunderstorm. It's very unlikely you're going to get struck by lightning, but it can have catastrophic consequences for you, a significant increase in your widow's bank account, and a small amount of paperwork for your life insurance company. |
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No prob, and to be clear I didn't post this to bash SIG. I was merely looking to raise awareness and to see what the consensus was amongst the Hive. This thread should have probably been left in the Technical Forum.. Anyway TDI is a very respected Training Organization in Ohio.. The other Instructor featured in the recent training video, Achilles Heel? Did not come across in a good light IMHO. His first response of mouthing off, "Is that a F'ing SIG 320?!" Instead of making sure that his student was uninjured was very telling. Diva vs Professional.. You cannot see what happened in that video so it's inconclusive as evidence. However there are certainly many other clips of LEO'S bending down etc. proceeding a P320 discharging while holstered. Are the guns not fully seated in their holsters allowing side to side wobble thus causing trigger impingement leading to the discharge? That is the claim. I like SIG, and currently own a late German Production P228r, a P365 a P938 and the P320. I've have had two P229's over the years and a 10mm P220 Stainless Elite, now that was a gem! My P320 is circa 2014 vintage purchased direct from SIG thru their Instructor program. It was sent back for the Voluntary upgrade/recall in 2016? That fix was for the drop safe issue, they added the lighter profile trigger and the additional Striker Safety bits. After that the Trigger pull was gritty and had what they called a hitch in it during the pull. Sig eventually exchanged the old slide for a replacement slide which fixed the trigger pull. The old slide's machining during the upgrade was pretty rough. I later added a Flat Face Factory trigger and Installed the manual safety myself. 'Not a simple drop in like the P365" This P320 has seen in excess of 8,000 rounds thru it between myself and my CCW students between 2014 and 2024. I've done Trenchcoat's Punch Test and The Striker did not release. My P320 came from the factory as a 9mm but I bought the Caliber Conversion/upper in .357 SIG. It's had approximately 1,000 additional rounds additional thru it in the .357 SIG upper which is the caliber I typically carry it in. And I did carry it for years, mostly strong-side in a Don Hume Jit Slide leather holster. These days my go to carry is the P365 or a Glock 43x, Thinner Smaller pistols are more comfortable to carry right? But On the weekend or when teaching classes, Hiking, going to the ATM at night I carry the Larger P320. I still trust it but am a growing concerned, It's hard to see past all the smoke to determine the truth. I want to have faith in SIG that they would not stand behind a design that was provably defective and unsafe. As others have said, there are a lot of other options out there, so for now I don't know if I'd recommend the P320 for others, but would I ban it from a handgun class? NO. The P320's light Trigger with it's lack of a dingus leaves less room for error so safe gun handling practices are a must.. Be safe my friends and remember knowing is half the battle. Quoted: I was considering a P320 but I think I’ll get a comparable Glock instead. Appreciate the heads up, OP. |
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Quoted: I remember when ALL MIM was shit. Now it's indian MIM once people found out their favorite brand used MIM too. Didn't Kahr offer MIM and non MIM versions of pistols? PM9 vs CM9 or something. I love me some machined S7 tool steel parts. cm-9 and pm-9 is likely no better than current sig mim parts. i think your onto something here but check the inside of kahr pistols where that weak spring sits. im an ex-kahr fan boy. its what i carried alot and shot well with for front pocket carry. the long da style trigger seemed slightly safer to me. once i found out that guys were having them go off by simply dropping them onto a bathroom floor i checked all mine and sure enough the internal safety detent and spring that sits behind it were so weak all you had to do was bounce it just right and it was disabled. that whole law of physics thing and vibrations happen when a gun falls on a hard tile floor. im obsessed about having a super safe gun if loaded chamber pointed at my nads all day. i ended up not carrying them and avioding them since. mim or not ill never be a kahr fan boy again. i was all in too. |
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Quoted: I think we should probably refine that description. I like (many) Sig products, and carried a P239 for a decade before they unceremoniously discontinued it. My P229 may be my favorite pistol; in fact the whole P220 series of handguns are some of the finest designs ever produced. This is an unpopular opinion here, but I really like my Sig 556. It's been a great rifle and has yet to break a part of malfunction in several thousand rounds. So as someone who likes some of their products that everyone else seems to shit on I am by no means a "SIG hater." Where they went wrong in my eyes was the P250. Clunky, poorly balanced, didn't really seem like there was a lot of work that went into the design. Even still, it was a safe pistol that appeared to work just fine. The P320 just feels low effort. Why does it have such a high bore axis if it's striker fired? The balance is terrible. The trigger is good for a striker gun, but unremarkable outside of that context. Everything about it says cost cutting. I was not especially fond of the M9, but I came to appreciate it much more after turning them in for M18s. did someone say p239? with the increasingly popular thing of deep concealment and having a loaded chamber pointed at your nads and main artery daily you only have to be wrong once. its time the gun manufacturers bring back tried and true da/sa offerings like p239 but in smaller more modern ccw sizes. with the current fiasco and ccw trends theres no reason we cant have some da/sa to safely point at our peckers and inner thigh all day. a p239 micro in 380 using modern ammo for instance would be a no brainer for ccw. |
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Quoted: What is the fix? Quoted: What is the fix? Quoted: If Hard_Rock is correct, there is a fix. On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. |
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Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. Quoted: Quoted: What is the fix? Quoted: If Hard_Rock is correct, there is a fix. On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. Interesting that Nacho had striker block failure on his M17 w/ the safety off, but not w/ the safety on. |
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That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. |
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Quoted: That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. |
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Quoted: That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. It does? That's not how it works if you look at it. It physically blocks the trigger and doesn't contact the sear. |
 ANALYSIS OF THE P320 MANUAL SAFETY |
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Quoted: And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. Quoted: Quoted: That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. I've been told that the ICE pistols are sourced differently. Folks I know state that you can have personally owned G26/19/17 pistols or the various P320/P365 as duty pistols. The Glocks can be purchased off the shelf. The Sigs have a serial # prefix that denotes them as ICE contract compliant and can only be purchased through one of two LE distributors. |
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Quoted: And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. Quoted: Quoted: That's interesting. In the P320 Literature it states that the manual safety locks the sear. If so that should make uncommanded discharges nearly impossible with it engaged. Quoted: On page two H_R posted that Sig introduced a sear lock in the FCU for an ICE contract. If that's the case, there is a fix for half the suspected issue, sears letting go of the striker due to movement/vibration. And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. That's a logical thought. Very possible I'd say. |
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Quoted: My local city cops all carry a P320 as their duty gun. I got to chat with their firearm instruction training and tactics officer. I asked about the P320 that he was carrying and he laughed about all the claims. “So much bullshit. We have been issuing these since 2017, no issues, no parts breakage. We replace springs on a schedule and the guns have been great” I’ll continue to carry my M18 and M17 pistols. My friends all have family pit bulls. I got to chat with their dog trainer. I asked about all the well documented dog attack statistics that point to put bulls being more dangerous than other breeds. He laughed at all the claims. “So much bullshit, I’ve been training pit pulls since 2017, I’ve yet to see one be aggressive. We train them and care for them regularly, and they have been great.” I’ll continue to own pit pulls with several young kids at home. |
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Quoted: My friends all have family pit bulls. I got to chat with their dog trainer. I asked about all the well documented dog attack statistics that point to put bulls being more dangerous than other breeds. He laughed at all the claims. “So much bullshit, I’ve been training pit pulls since 2017, I’ve yet to see one be aggressive. We train them and care for them regularly, and they have been great.” I’ll continue to own pit pulls with several young kids at home. Quoted: Quoted: My local city cops all carry a P320 as their duty gun. I got to chat with their firearm instruction training and tactics officer. I asked about the P320 that he was carrying and he laughed about all the claims. “So much bullshit. We have been issuing these since 2017, no issues, no parts breakage. We replace springs on a schedule and the guns have been great” I’ll continue to carry my M18 and M17 pistols. My friends all have family pit bulls. I got to chat with their dog trainer. I asked about all the well documented dog attack statistics that point to put bulls being more dangerous than other breeds. He laughed at all the claims. “So much bullshit, I’ve been training pit pulls since 2017, I’ve yet to see one be aggressive. We train them and care for them regularly, and they have been great.” I’ll continue to own pit pulls with several young kids at home. A pit bull won't shoot you in the leg. 
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Very helpful, thank you. So at least the common version of the safety lever does NOT lock the sear, and with a functioning safety block, would be a very safe system. |
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Quoted: Both will send you to the hospital with wounds to the extremities though Quoted: Quoted: A pit bull won't shoot you in the leg. Both will send you to the hospital with wounds to the extremities though Yes, but pit bulls are so cute and slobber all over you. A 320 is a cold, hard piece of plastic and steel - no slobber, no cuteness. The betrayal of a pit bull is much more poignant. |
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Quoted: And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. None of us has seen that video, only the one person who reviewed it, who knows what they could see, what their level of knowledge was etc. So far none of us have seen a SIG P320 go off uncommanded with our own eyes, and it's unclear how it would even be possibly with the manual safety engaged. Maybe a mix of parts, wear etc. could cause the striker to fail and fall on a non manual safety version but that's not even been able to be replicated in a controlled, court mandated setting where money was on the line. |
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Quoted: None of us has seen that video, only the one person who reviewed it, who knows what they could see, what their level of knowledge was etc. So far none of us have seen a SIG P320 go off uncommanded with our own eyes, and it's unclear how it would even be possibly with the manual safety engaged. Maybe a mix of parts, wear etc. could cause the striker to fail and fall on a non manual safety version but that's not even been able to be replicated in a controlled, court mandated setting where money was on the line. Quoted: Quoted: And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. None of us has seen that video, only the one person who reviewed it, who knows what they could see, what their level of knowledge was etc. So far none of us have seen a SIG P320 go off uncommanded with our own eyes, and it's unclear how it would even be possibly with the manual safety engaged. Maybe a mix of parts, wear etc. could cause the striker to fail and fall on a non manual safety version but that's not even been able to be replicated in a controlled, court mandated setting where money was on the line. Well, SIG replicated it - we have the pics of primers struck that they took. |
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Quoted: Could you share them? I am looking for the truth, thank you. Quoted: Could you share them? I am looking for the truth, thank you. Quoted: Well, SIG replicated it - we have the pics of primers struck that they took. Look for Techman's giant post on page 54 of the giant GD 320 thread, think they're in there. Trying to get guns ordered after a good gunshow weekend. Need more Glurks, they sell well. |
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Quoted: Could you share them? I am looking for the truth, thank you. Attached File |
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Honestly, those rounds probably wouldn't have detonated. Chambering a round in the AR-15 can do the same thing to a primer. |
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Quoted: Honestly, those rounds probably wouldn't have detonated. Chambering a round in the AR-15 can do the same thing to a primer. @KnightofTheOldeCode What kind of firing pin does an AR have? What kind of ammunition is a military weapon designed to use? What does every kind of service pistol since the 70's have that prevents primer strikes? I am genuinely not trying to be insulting, but the problem is that people who think this isn't an issue don't have knowledge of firearms design and differences between firearms. For the record, I've seen spent cases that have less primer indentation than those. Google the answers to those questions above, and get back to me about why a pistol designed with a ______ showing primer strikes at all is an issue. |
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Quoted: @KnightofTheOldeCode What kind of firing pin does an AR have? What kind of ammunition is a military weapon designed to use? What does every kind of service pistol since the 70's have that prevents primer strikes? I am genuinely not trying to be insulting, but the problem is that people who think this isn't an issue don't have knowledge of firearms design and differences between firearms. For the record, I've seen spent cases that have less primer indentation than those. Google the answers to those questions above, and get back to me about why a pistol designed with a ______ showing primer strikes at all is an issue. Quoted: Quoted: Honestly, those rounds probably wouldn't have detonated. Chambering a round in the AR-15 can do the same thing to a primer. @KnightofTheOldeCode What kind of firing pin does an AR have? What kind of ammunition is a military weapon designed to use? What does every kind of service pistol since the 70's have that prevents primer strikes? I am genuinely not trying to be insulting, but the problem is that people who think this isn't an issue don't have knowledge of firearms design and differences between firearms. For the record, I've seen spent cases that have less primer indentation than those. Google the answers to those questions above, and get back to me about why a pistol designed with a ______ showing primer strikes at all is an issue. I’m willing to bet more than one of those “light strikes” resulted in primer detonation. But, we’ll never know. What we do know is the striker blocks failed on those three pistols. |
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Quoted: What we do know is the striker blocks failed on those three pistols. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Honestly, those rounds probably wouldn't have detonated. Chambering a round in the AR-15 can do the same thing to a primer. @KnightofTheOldeCode What kind of firing pin does an AR have? What kind of ammunition is a military weapon designed to use? What does every kind of service pistol since the 70's have that prevents primer strikes? I am genuinely not trying to be insulting, but the problem is that people who think this isn't an issue don't have knowledge of firearms design and differences between firearms. For the record, I've seen spent cases that have less primer indentation than those. Google the answers to those questions above, and get back to me about why a pistol designed with a ______ showing primer strikes at all is an issue. What we do know is the striker blocks failed on those three pistols. And what really do you need to know beyond that to realize that the guns are unsafe. |
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Quoted: Well, SIG replicated it - we have the pics of primers struck that they took. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. None of us has seen that video, only the one person who reviewed it, who knows what they could see, what their level of knowledge was etc. So far none of us have seen a SIG P320 go off uncommanded with our own eyes, and it's unclear how it would even be possibly with the manual safety engaged. Maybe a mix of parts, wear etc. could cause the striker to fail and fall on a non manual safety version but that's not even been able to be replicated in a controlled, court mandated setting where money was on the line. Well, SIG replicated it - we have the pics of primers struck that they took. Do those pictures show primers that were struck, or do they show primers that took on an impression of the breech face after being vibrated against it? |
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Quoted: Do those pictures show primers that were struck, or do they show primers that took on an impression of the breech face after being vibrated against it? Seriously? I get what you're implying, but that is not an optical illusion. Attached File The only way a primer can extrude into the breech face and firing pin hole is due to chamber overpressure. |
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Quoted: Do those pictures show primers that were struck, or do they show primers that took on an impression of the breech face after being vibrated against it? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And yet, confusingly, we have the case of the Japanese contract guard who was seen on video not futzing w/ his M17, safety on, and it still discharged. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are different versions of FCU parts across the 320 fleet and the problem is limited to certain combinations. None of us has seen that video, only the one person who reviewed it, who knows what they could see, what their level of knowledge was etc. So far none of us have seen a SIG P320 go off uncommanded with our own eyes, and it's unclear how it would even be possibly with the manual safety engaged. Maybe a mix of parts, wear etc. could cause the striker to fail and fall on a non manual safety version but that's not even been able to be replicated in a controlled, court mandated setting where money was on the line. Well, SIG replicated it - we have the pics of primers struck that they took. Do those pictures show primers that were struck, or do they show primers that took on an impression of the breech face after being vibrated against it? I didnt stay at a holiday inn last night, but they certainly look like they made contact with the firing pin to me. |