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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:35:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything.
The real key is controlled delivery on both brakes. Uncontrolled surges to the brakes will upset your balance and cause a wreck. Most motorcycles are forgiving.. to a point, but once you get past that point then you can get hurt really easily. When I ride I use the front mostly but to a small extent the back as well. I find that a combination of the two stops me very effectively. I find that the both brakes work best in the rain. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:36:06 PM EDT
[#2]
I use 100% only front brake at the track and a mixture of 90% front 10% rear on the street.
Rear brakes are next to worthless under heavy braking situations where you have a massive weight transfer to the front tire. Also, any kind of lockup of the rear wheel brings the potential for a high side crash. If the rear wheel locks up you keep it locked up until you can stop the bike. **I give the OP the benefit of the doubt about motorcycles** |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:37:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, we've had some doozies on this forum like "What is an IP address?" and "what is hamburger made from?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you aren't then I apologize but it just seems like it. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Trolling_illustration,_Historic_American_Engineering_Record.png No, we've had some doozies on this forum like "What is an IP address?" and "what is hamburger made from?" Don't forget the, "Why is my BFL sticker bubbling up" thread from earlier today. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:37:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. The real key is controlled delivery on both brakes. Uncontrolled surges to the brakes will upset your balance and cause a wreck. Most motorcycles are forgiving.. to a point, but once you get past that point then you can get hurt really easily. When I ride I use the front mostly but to a small extent the back as well. I find that a combination of the two stops me very effectively. I find that the both brakes work best in the rain. And that alone is probably a damn good reason why i should never try to ride. I have a severe lack of coordination. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:38:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Front brakes on a motorcycle are 70% of the total braking power.I use the back brake very little.Back brake got used a lot on my KLR 650 when I was offroad and going down small hills.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:38:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Take your typical econobox and stop it with the handbrake that is connected via cable to the rear tires. Come to a stop without touching the pedal. This should answer your question. Even if you yank hard enough to lock the rear tires your stopping distance will be about 4-5 times as long than if you smash on the pedal.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:39:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that alone is probably a damn good reason why i should never try to ride. I have a severe lack of coordination. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. The real key is controlled delivery on both brakes. Uncontrolled surges to the brakes will upset your balance and cause a wreck. Most motorcycles are forgiving.. to a point, but once you get past that point then you can get hurt really easily. When I ride I use the front mostly but to a small extent the back as well. I find that a combination of the two stops me very effectively. I find that the both brakes work best in the rain. And that alone is probably a damn good reason why i should never try to ride. I have a severe lack of coordination. You should give the MSF Basic Riders course a try.. you might surprise yourself. If you can handle the coordination of riding a car you can do motorcycles. It's all about how you train your brain. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:40:28 PM EDT
[#8]
The only time rears become more primary than the fronts is on dirt/limited traction surfaces. This is due more to the fronts locking up given teh same application of force as used on a good traction surface, since friction can longer be created as consistantly and directly. When teh front locks, you wash out. When teh rear locks, you skid/slide but can maintain control.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:40:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2 countersteering, to turn a motorcycle you actually push the handlebar, if I am entering a right hand turn I push the right handlebar forwards Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? I have no idea 1 not being able to get hard on the front brake to stop fast and 2 countersteering, to turn a motorcycle you actually push the handlebar, if I am entering a right hand turn I push the right handlebar forwards For some reason I would never have imagined you as a motorcycle rider. Don't know why, just wouldn't..  |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:40:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Will that work on your car just using the rear brakes?
Sure, it you have the room. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:40:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that alone is probably a damn good reason why i should never try to ride. I have a severe lack of coordination. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. The real key is controlled delivery on both brakes. Uncontrolled surges to the brakes will upset your balance and cause a wreck. Most motorcycles are forgiving.. to a point, but once you get past that point then you can get hurt really easily. When I ride I use the front mostly but to a small extent the back as well. I find that a combination of the two stops me very effectively. I find that the both brakes work best in the rain. And that alone is probably a damn good reason why i should never try to ride. I have a severe lack of coordination. It's not that hard, you figure it out pretty easily. Like said the only thing you really don't want to do is lock either brake. The rear can result in you being slammed into the ground very hard, and the front can result in you being launched head first into something. Just nice consistent squeeze, no jerking the brake. If you squeeze the front too hard you can release it and rebrake, if the rear locks up you have to keep it locked up until you stop or risk the slam. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:41:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Riding motorcycle gets you all in tune with the laws of motion and stuff.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:42:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Terrible, dangerous advice. Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:42:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. You would also use the rear brake when you *don't* really want much weight transfer to the front. For example on a long downhill where you need to bleed off some speed but are not coming to a full stop. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:44:30 PM EDT
[#15]
So much craziness.
Watch some Captain Crash videos!  |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:44:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should give the MSF Basic Riders course a try.. you might surprise yourself. If you can handle the coordination of riding a car you can do motorcycles. It's all about how you train your brain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. The real key is controlled delivery on both brakes. Uncontrolled surges to the brakes will upset your balance and cause a wreck. Most motorcycles are forgiving.. to a point, but once you get past that point then you can get hurt really easily. When I ride I use the front mostly but to a small extent the back as well. I find that a combination of the two stops me very effectively. I find that the both brakes work best in the rain. And that alone is probably a damn good reason why i should never try to ride. I have a severe lack of coordination. You should give the MSF Basic Riders course a try.. you might surprise yourself. If you can handle the coordination of riding a car you can do motorcycles. It's all about how you train your brain. Defiantely try it out. On one hand, maybe you're not as uncoordinated as you think, on the other, you spend a couple hundred bucks and a weekend to find out that riding is not for you. If you can rapidly draw, disengage safety, acquire target, fire, reengage safety and holster wihtout any NDs, you can probaly handle "li'l bit of gas, li'l bit of clutch, now duck walk" 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:45:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would also use the rear brake when you *don't* really want much weight transfer to the front. For example on a long downhill where you need to bleed off some speed but are not coming to a full stop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. You would also use the rear brake when you *don't* really want much weight transfer to the front. For example on a long downhill where you need to bleed off some speed but are not coming to a full stop. That's really good advice. It is a big help too when you have to make a sharp turn in dirt (be it on a descending mountain path) or something screwy with gravel. As always with dirt unless you're riding something designed for dirt with knobbies.. low and slow is the answer to safe riding. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:46:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not that hard, you figure it out pretty easily. Like said the only thing you really don't want to do is lock either brake. The rear can result in you being slammed into the ground very hard, and the front can result in you being launched head first into something. Just nice consistent squeeze, no jerking the brake. If you squeeze the front too hard you can release it and rebrake, if the rear locks up you have to keep it locked up until you stop or risk the slam. ^ This is more good advice. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:46:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Any seasoned rider know to really stop, you just lay 'er down.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:46:48 PM EDT
[#20]
you have it backwards.
when you hit the brakes, where is most of the pressure exerted? the back tire or front tire? hint: when you hit the brakes in your car, does the nose dive or rise? More pressure = more force can be exerted before the tire slips. Staying on the bike if you grab a huge handful of front brake is another thing....which is probably the cause here. Can't stay on the bike. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:47:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would also use the rear brake when you *don't* really want much weight transfer to the front. For example on a long downhill where you need to bleed off some speed but are not coming to a full stop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. You would also use the rear brake when you *don't* really want much weight transfer to the front. For example on a long downhill where you need to bleed off some speed but are not coming to a full stop. Would also add that you have a third brake, that effects the rear, with your throttle, or lack therof. There are lots of combos, to deal with lots of surfaces. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:48:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the key is not to jam the front brakes hard, locking up the bike and throwing your ass over the bars? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With any vehicle when you apply the brakes the weight transfers to the front. The front brake then becomes more effective and the rear brake less effective. If you look at brake systems, the fronts are always bigger because they do most of the braking. So the key is not to jam the front brakes hard, locking up the bike and throwing your ass over the bars? Body positioning and brake modulation will prevent an endo from occurring. Frame design also has a lot to do with it. My guess is she grabbed an handful of front brake and lacked the upper body strength to keep herself over the bars and went too far forward. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:50:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... Yup.. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:50:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would also add that you have a third brake, that effects the rear, with your throttle, or lack therof. There are lots of combos, to deal with lots of surfaces. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the guys have covered it.. the back brake has some advantages in dirt for light braking. Obviously in dirt you don't want to be grabbing big handfuls of anything. You would also use the rear brake when you *don't* really want much weight transfer to the front. For example on a long downhill where you need to bleed off some speed but are not coming to a full stop. Would also add that you have a third brake, that effects the rear, with your throttle, or lack therof. There are lots of combos, to deal with lots of surfaces. This is true as well, I use lower gears to slow me down quite often. The only problem with this is if you down shift too soon the rear may want to kick out, it's a feel thing. Backing off the throttle will slow you down like he said as well. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:50:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't forget the, "Why is my BFL sticker bubbling up" thread from earlier today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you aren't then I apologize but it just seems like it. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Trolling_illustration,_Historic_American_Engineering_Record.png No, we've had some doozies on this forum like "What is an IP address?" and "what is hamburger made from?" Don't forget the, "Why is my BFL sticker bubbling up" thread from earlier today. I miss all of the good threads. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:51:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Weight transfer and traction pie!
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:51:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Didn't read.
Back wheel makes it go front wheel steers and stops. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:54:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Try using just your front brakes to get out of a tank slapper - let me know how you get on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Rear brakes will not stop you very quick. Front brakes are really all you need, once you learn to ride. Try using just your front brakes to get out of a tank slapper - let me know how you get on. Sure, let's just interject a 4 or 5 sigma event into a discussion on basic motorcycle operation. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:54:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't read. Back wheel makes it go front wheel steers and stops. I also steer with my rear wheel. My back brakes are just as important as my front brakes. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:55:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryExactly. And that forward weight transfer decreases traction on the rear wheel, creating instability. During a stop, fast or slow, you need to optimize traction on BOTH wheels, by keeping weight centered. ALWAYS use both brakes. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:56:01 PM EDT
[#31]
bikes have brakes on both wheel for a reason. I use them both, thats what they're there for...
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:58:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... I don't know about that but i had no trouble grabbing a handful of front brake. I practiced quick stops though. I'll bet the girl that wrecked didn't have the wheels lined up right, or lost control of the handlebars. I thought everyone knew most of your stopping power is in the front. I guess physics is for fags. And lesbians. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 3:58:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: thanks. Yeah I am serious, unlike most on here I am not an expert in everything.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP: http://motorcycles.about.com/od/commonquestions/a/how_to_brake_on_a_motorcycle.htm If you are serious.. this is a nice break down. thanks. Yeah I am serious, unlike most on here I am not an expert in everything.. In a car, the proportioning valve automatically adjusts the pressure as you brake and weight transfers to the front of the car. This means your front brakes are used more than the rears, while you only operate ONE pedal. Many motorcycles have one brake lever for the front and one brake pedal for the rear thus making the motorcyclist manually proportion the braking force needed as the weight transfers during braking. As a few other posters have pointed out, good riders proportion well and don't wipe out due to shitty braking. Shitty riders brake shitty and lock the front brakes (or or other shitty braking actions)... all things that cars' ABS and proportioning valve take care of for you. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:00:32 PM EDT
[#34]
OP is right!!!!!
That is a stupid question! |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:01:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Don't touch that front brake. It'll flip ya right over and kill ya.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:01:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With any vehicle when you apply the brakes the weight transfers to the front. The front brake then becomes more effective and the rear brake less effective. If you look at brake systems, the fronts are always bigger because they do most of the braking. Plus the rear unweights, and traction is lost. Then you brag to your fellow harley riders about how you had to lay it down to avoid a wreck. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:02:05 PM EDT
[#37]
They do most of the stopping.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:04:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Why do motorcycles even need wheels? Its been bugging me for a long time.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:04:25 PM EDT
[#39]
When you are decelerating, the laws of physics make it so that more weight is distributed to the front axle of any vehicle. This is why your car dips down under breaking.
The maximum friction between the road and a tire is a function of the normal force (force straight down). So if you decelerate using only using the rear brakes, weight is distributed to the forward axle. This limits the maximum friction on your rear axle, so your braking force is compromised. The brakes in the forward direction of travel are always more effective. This is also why front wheel drive vehicles burn out much easier, under acceleration the weight is shifted back to the non drive rear axle.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:05:10 PM EDT
[#40]
If you ever had to use a foot clutch on a hill, you'd understand.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:09:06 PM EDT
[#41]
OP,
To test, get on a bicycle and pedal as fast as you can. Jam on the rear brake and tell me what happens? Your rear wheel skids, right? probably slides back and forth uncontrollably. But you don't stop very efficiently. Now repeat the experiment, but this time jam on the front brake. What happens? Oh! your in the hospital with a broken rib and a concussion? Lucky you OP, lucky you.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:09:17 PM EDT
[#42]
I don't ever use brakes.
If I want to stop, I just have to lay her down. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:10:26 PM EDT
[#43]
I started out riding dirtbikes at 5-years old. Never used the front brake, ever, and got away with it. Got a Yamaha enduro at 16-that was street legal. Continued to only use the rear brake which resulted in skidding and slamming into a car that stopped suddenly in front of me. 11-years riding dirt bikes and nobody ever taught me to use the front brake. Was also never taught counter steering or throttle controll. Riding dirt bikes of 125 - 500 CC it was never a problem, you can muscle those around. Street bikes, entirely different. The things i got away with on a dirt bike in the sand were painfull on the pavement.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:14:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? If you actually read the thread you wouldn't have any question about why motorcycles have front brakes... |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:15:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any seasoned rider know to really stop, you just lay 'er down. I was going to say this. I love hearing that. The rear brake does work very well for loading the suspension/controlling traction. A fast woods rider will get the rear brake very hot. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do motorcycles even need wheels? Its been bugging me for a long time. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile duh, so they can do a wheelie. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:17:32 PM EDT
[#47]
When I took a motorcycle "safety class" many many moons ago..one of the "students" hit the front brake/wiped out and almost took out the instructor in the process..needless to say she failed the class.
 Both brakes should be used, for me most of the time the emphasis was on the rear brake.But the front is important as well and they are used in conjunction! I grew up riding minibikes in the desert (where I also learned how to roll with the fall if I did fall/ wipeout and not get injured which saved my ass when I actually DID get hit by a car on the road at 65mph later on) so I never had much of a problem with it as after a point its just instinctual as to how to apply the brakes depending on the circumstance and you DO use both but like what was stated, some people should just NOT ride motorcycles under any circumstances! I kind of equate riding a bike on the streets today to a "combat mindset" in war, as its almost the same thing going out on the road nowadays on a bike is almost like going into battle and you have to be very fucking focused to survive.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:18:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The front brake supplies nearly all of the stopping power. Its basic HS physics 101, unless you went to HS in the last 30 years. Center of Gravity, moment of inertia. When the fronts are applied the weight and momentum of the bike are such that braking forces are increased as the force tries to roll over and down the front forks. The rear wheel lifts. A brake applied to the rear wheel is then for nothing as its not touching pavement. I only use the rear if I have to stop on a hill, but after a few years, I got pretty good about holding the front brake and rolling on the throttle so I use the rear less and less. The books and courses say to use BOTH, so that in an emergency your automatic reaction will be for both, but most folks never learn or keep to that. With fronts on my sportbike I can drop 60 to 0 in about 120ft. or 1.5secs, and you better be holding on cause you know you are stopping NOW. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:18:58 PM EDT
[#49]
The rear works great for flatspotting the rear tire
I am a 90/10 braker on the street. I do like to drag the rear in the dirt on my WR, but have even upgraded the front on it to a bigger brake. No harm for asking, that is for sure. I have seen new guys make the wrong assumption about the brakes, and go down. The rear brake on my fat ass Hayabusa is completely useless without applying the front. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 4:22:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Lot’s of good advice in this thread, and I don’t think the OP’s original question was stupid since it came from a non rider.
One thing that has not been mentioned is linked ABS on bikes. My Honda CB1100A stops like it’s on rails. The computer modulates the braking pressure between the wheels depending on how hard I’m pressing the levers. I would never own another bike without ABS. Mike Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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