Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yet there are many people, on this very board, who take Rx narcotics for back pain and insist they are okay to drive and handle firearms. Personally i think any time a doctor prescribes a medicatio that can impair driving he should be required to report it to DMV and they should suspend the drivers driving privalege for the duration of the prescription.  Doctors already do it for those who have seizures. Based on what actual evidence that these people are actually a hazard on the road? How many of them would be banned from the road? Just FYI, if a person is in real pain then they typically don't feel intoxicating effects from pain killers. Impaired not intoxicated. If impaired both from disabilty and narcotics they should not be driving.

They aren't impaired, either. And their disabilities usually aren't such that they would interfere with driving.

But I think the question to you was what actual evidence you have that these people are a hazard on the road.  I take it that you have none.

Wolfman,
You claim MJ entusiasts want to treat MJ like alcohol.

Would you support a zero tolerance law for MJ same as alcohol? CVC 23136(a).

Would you support increasing the fine for a person under 21 possessing MJ to the same fine as those who possess alcohol? B&P25662(a).

Would you support making smoking marijuana in a public park an arrestable offense, same as with alcohol?

Would you support a fine for driver under 21 knowingly transport marijuana, same as with alcohol? CVC 23224(a)

How about an open container law? break the seal on your bag then you can be arrested if you possess it in public and ticketed if you transport it in your car?

How about smoking while driving? We ticket those who drink alcohol while driving.

Would you support the creation of a state police force to regulate MJ and enforce MJ law, same as with alcohol?

Here in the Great State of Akaska we have a lot of people that have cause the death of other while they are stoned of druck.  They have been getting charged with Second degree Murders and most of the time they are found guilty of those charges.  

Quoted: Right now you get caught smoking a joint in the bar parking lot/concert/city park you get a ticket.  If it was treated like alcohol the cops would have to option of a ticket or jail.   Do you think MJ advocates want to give the police the authority to take people to jail for public use like with alcohol?

If alcohol regulation was available for marijuana, I think 99% of them would accept it instantly.

I fully support treating pot like alcohol.  But it would mean increased penalties for pot in Cali.

I don't think that would be a perfect system -- but it would be miles, and billions of tax dollars, better than the current system.

So let me ask you this? Would you support a zero tolerance law for MJ same as alcohol?

Zero tolerance laws, in general, are a bad idea. I can't honestly say that I have ever seen a zero-tolerance law (for non-violent offenses) that I have ever agreed with. As the Federal judges themselves say, it just naturally leads to stupid injustices.

If you mean for kids and driving, I think those cases need to be individually decided by a judge familiar with the situation. The consequences ought to be enough to get the message across, but I still think you need someone there who can look at the facts and make a fair judgment how much punishment is needed.

Would you support increasing the fine for a person under 21 possessing MJ to the same fine as those who possess alcohol?

Wouldn't bother me much. I don't think that is necessarily the best way to handle it, but if it comes as part of a package of greater regulation like alcohol, I would certainly accept it for openers.

Would you support making smoking marijuana in a public park an arrestable offense, same as with alcohol?

If you are going to do that, then you should do the same with tobacco. Do you think it is a good idea for tobacco?

As I see it, these laws are only enforced against the public we don't like, anyway. The bum with a bottle downtown will get arrested but the middle class guys having beer at the picnic in the park never will be arrested.

Personally, I think the standard for public use of anything ought to be pegged at when it begins to interfere with someone else. I don't care if you smoke yourself to death with tobacco -- or where you do it -- as long as you don't blow it in my face.

But, once again, if this is part of an inclusive package and we are simply establishing the standard that we must have an equal approach to all these drugs across the board, then I have no problem applying whatever standard you have applied to alcohol.

Would you support a fine for driver under 21 knowingly transport marijuana, same as with alcohol?

Sure. Why not?

How about an open container law? break the seal on your bag then you can be arrested if you possess it in public and ticketed if you transport it in your car?

Interesting question. It rather presumes that there is a legal seal on the package. I have mixed emotions on this one. One reason is that an open container of marijuana doesn't necessarily have the same level of danger to others that an open container of alcohol would.

I also have some minor problems with the alcohol rule because I have made wine myself and thought that it would be rather unfair if I got taking a bottle of homemade wine to a friend's house for dinner.

But, assuming that this is a "marijuana law = alcohol law" question then, yes, I would probably accept this tomorrow.

How about smoking while driving? We ticket those who drink alcohol while driving.

I assume you are asking in terms of "Regardless of proof of impairment". That is, they get busted if they are seen swigging a beer, even if it was their first taste. No breathalyzer, BAC, or walk-the-line needed.

I think the situation is somewhat more analogous to tobacco smoking. They have shown that tobacco smokers can feel an impairment similar to that of a low-level drunk from carbon monoxide. I don't particularly like to see people smoking tobacco on the road -- but then again, I don't get the impression that they are enough of a hazard that it is worth making it illegal.

So I am not especially in favor of this, but if the vote is on "marijuana law=alcohol law", yes or no, my vote is "yes".  We can talk about tweaking some of these things later on down the road, but I will take that deal immediately. I think just about everyone I know in the reform movement would take it, too.  

You could probably say the same about most of the people in the reform movement, about most of the drugs. They wouldn't think it was a perfect solution, but I think nearly all would agree that it would be better than the current situation. In fact, I have heard several members of LEAP Law Enforcement Against Prohibition say that specifically. Just copy and paste and do a global replace on "alcohol" with "marijuana".

They will tell you the same thing I would say about it -- It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a damn sight better than what we have now.  As a matter of fact, I think the last guy I heard say that was a former Federal Agent who said he had busted 240,000 pounds of cocaine in Colombia.

Quoted: Would you support the creation of a state police force to regulate MJ and enforce MJ law, same as with alcohol?

You must have been impatient for my answer. Oh, well.

I think I answered all of your questions except this one. If you are going to make the laws equal then why shouldn't it come under an expansion of the present alcohol and/or tobacco tax boards? What is the difference? Wouldn't they be sold at similar places? Similar taxes, with similar social concerns? Similar work in regulation?

Put it under the existing alcohol or tobacco boards, as far as I can see. No need for new agencies for every particular drug.

Quoted: Here in the Great State of Akaska we have a lot of people that have cause the death of other while they are stoned of druck.  They have been getting charged with Second degree Murders and most of the time they are found guilty of those charges.

About half of all homicides are related to alcohol. Marijuana use isn't a significant factor in violence.

Quoted: Quoted: Right now you get caught smoking a joint in the bar parking lot/concert/city park you get a ticket.  If it was treated like alcohol the cops would have to option of a ticket or jail.   Do you think MJ advocates want to give the police the authority to take people to jail for public use like with alcohol? If alcohol regulation was available for marijuana, I think 99% of them would accept it instantly. I fully support treating pot like alcohol.  But it would mean increased penalties for pot in Cali. I don't think that would be a perfect system -- but it would be miles, and billions of tax dollars, better than the current system. So let me ask you this? Would you support a zero tolerance law for MJ same as alcohol? Zero tolerance laws, in general, are a bad idea. I can't honestly say that I have ever seen a zero-tolerance law (for non-violent offenses) that I have ever agreed with. As the Federal judges themselves say, it just naturally leads to stupid injustices. If you mean for kids and driving, I think those cases need to be individually decided by a judge familiar with the situation. The consequences ought to be enough to get the message across, but I still think you need someone there who can look at the facts and make a fair judgment how much punishment is needed.

Thats the current system. The is a hearing before a DMV driver safety officer following a zero tolerance violation.  It's not an automatic suspension by the police. FWIW there is no criminal punishment for a zero tolerance violation as it is a non-criminal violation of the CVC. It is neither an infraction, misdemeanor or felony.  

Quoted: [They wouldn't think it was a perfect solution, but I think nearly all would agree that it would be better than the current situation. In fact, I have heard several members of LEAP Law Enforcement Against Prohibition say that specifically. Just copy and paste and do a global replace on "alcohol" with "marijuana".

that would be an easy change.  simply add "or marijuana" every place the word alcohol appears in the CVC, CPC, H&S or B&P code.  Then strike all the marijuana specific codes. However i think your typical pot head would scream bloody murder when he realized that would mean what used to be a $40.00 ticket now means the night in jail or a license suspension.

Quoted: Quoted: Here in the Great State of Akaska we have a lot of people that have cause the death of other while they are stoned of druck.  They have been getting charged with Second degree Murders and most of the time they are found guilty of those charges.   About half of all homicides are related to alcohol.

Or Sex and money.

a drunk guy killing his cheating wife is not caused by alcohol andy more than a stoned guy killing his cheating wife.

Quoted: Quoted: [They wouldn't think it was a perfect solution, but I think nearly all would agree that it would be better than the current situation. In fact, I have heard several members of LEAP Law Enforcement Against Prohibition say that specifically. Just copy and paste and do a global replace on "alcohol" with "marijuana". that would be an easy change.  simply add "or marijuana" every place the word alcohol appears in the CVC, CPC, H&S or B&P code.  Then strike all the marijuana specific codes. However i think your typical pot head would scream bloody murder when he realized that would mean what used to be a $40.00 ticket now means the night in jail or a license suspension.

Well, I know a lot of people in the movement and I don't think so. There might be a few surprised people, but they would get over it.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here in the Great State of Akaska we have a lot of people that have cause the death of other while they are stoned of druck.  They have been getting charged with Second degree Murders and most of the time they are found guilty of those charges.   About half of all homicides are related to alcohol. Or Sex and money. a drunk guy killing his cheating wife is not caused by alcohol andy more than a stoned guy killing his cheating wife.

Alcohol is more likely to cause a severe loss of judgment that facilitates stupid behavior.

Quoted: I've had a wreck cause I was stoned.  It's what turned my life around.  It changed who I was forever.  I'm glad it happened.  Anyone that thinks pot doesn't impair your driving abilities is a fucking moron.

nothing like the scared straight reformed to give us tips.
just because you're a moron and couldn't drive high doesn't mean they/you shouldn't get high, just that they shouldn't drive whilst.

Quoted: Quoted: I've had a wreck cause I was stoned.  It's what turned my life around.  It changed who I was forever.  I'm glad it happened.  Anyone that thinks pot doesn't impair your driving abilities is a fucking moron. nothing like the scared straight reformed to give us tips. just because you're a moron and couldn't drive high doesn't mean they/you shouldn't get high, just that they shouldn't drive whilst.

I didn't say you shouldnt' get high,  If you wanna smoke weed, I could care less. I have a lot of friends that do.  BUT I repeat, anyone that thinks smoking it doesn't impair motorfunction, is a grade one idiot.

ET fix my damn spelling.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've had a wreck cause I was stoned.  It's what turned my life around.  It changed who I was forever.  I'm glad it happened.  Anyone that thinks pot doesn't impair your driving abilities is a fucking moron. nothing like the scared straight reformed to give us tips. just because you're a moron and couldn't drive high doesn't mean they/you shouldn't get high, just that they shouldn't drive whilst. I didn't say you shouldnt' get high,  If you wanna smoke weed, I could care less. I have a lot of friends that do.  BUT I repeat, anyone that things smoking it doesn't impair motorfunction, is a grade one idiot.

I read it wrong apparently.

No sweat man.