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Posted: 4/16/2016 3:47:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Please share the AK National Guard stories from the 80's
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:03:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They definitely took an interest in Nike missile bases in NY. I have some family stories, but I don't think anything made it to print. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:26:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please share the AK National Guard stories from the 80's Seconded |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:27:10 AM EDT
[#4]
There are threads that have been archived about this very topic. Here's a link to a blurb that was posted earlier in GD about Soviet patrols in remote parts of AK.
Eskimos disappeared and may or may not have been killed when they found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. At least two AKARNG soldiers were killed in a firefight according to a quick search. The Cold War went hot in a very small way right on our own soil. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:36:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not that I've ever heard of, from that time frame. If the story about how he found them was true, then it would have been sometime around '83-'84ish, when he found them on a beach after hearing "people firing funny-sounding guns on full auto...". The old guy was a Vietnam-era combat vet, so he knew what weapons sounded like on automatic. The story was that he'd been in one inlet, heard full-auto fire, and went to see what the hell was going on. When he got to where he thought it was fired, he found the cases on the beach. They looked "funny", so he picked them up to show someone. When he reported it to the Alaska State Patrol, they pretty much blew him off. When he pulled them out for me, we'd been talking guns, and he was like "Maybe you know what these funny cases are that I found a few years ago...". I still don't know what to make of that shit, to be honest. It was a couple of years past the timeframe it happened, and I'm still sort of "WTF? Why would the Soviets be on a beach, firing weapons on full auto, in bumfuck Alaska? And, wouldn't the Soviet Navy have been more likely to have 7.62X39 AKM rifles, at that time, anyway? And, shouldn't the GRU have been using weapons that would have been deniable, not unique front-line 5.45mm that was still damn near a state secret at the time?". Doesn't make a damn bit of sense, but that was what I saw, and what I was told about how he'd found 'em. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. That's fascinating. Any other sources for stories about 5.45 cases found in Alaska? Not that I've ever heard of, from that time frame. If the story about how he found them was true, then it would have been sometime around '83-'84ish, when he found them on a beach after hearing "people firing funny-sounding guns on full auto...". The old guy was a Vietnam-era combat vet, so he knew what weapons sounded like on automatic. The story was that he'd been in one inlet, heard full-auto fire, and went to see what the hell was going on. When he got to where he thought it was fired, he found the cases on the beach. They looked "funny", so he picked them up to show someone. When he reported it to the Alaska State Patrol, they pretty much blew him off. When he pulled them out for me, we'd been talking guns, and he was like "Maybe you know what these funny cases are that I found a few years ago...". I still don't know what to make of that shit, to be honest. It was a couple of years past the timeframe it happened, and I'm still sort of "WTF? Why would the Soviets be on a beach, firing weapons on full auto, in bumfuck Alaska? And, wouldn't the Soviet Navy have been more likely to have 7.62X39 AKM rifles, at that time, anyway? And, shouldn't the GRU have been using weapons that would have been deniable, not unique front-line 5.45mm that was still damn near a state secret at the time?". Doesn't make a damn bit of sense, but that was what I saw, and what I was told about how he'd found 'em. Seems plausible a patrol may have ran into an random Eskimo by mistake, lit him up, and exfiled the area quickly after making all that racket with their '74s. They may have taken the dead Eskimo or Eskimos with them so as not to leave any evidence of a crime, and left some of the empty cases behind due to a sloppy police call. . |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:37:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are threads that have been archived about this very topic. Here's a link to a blurb that was posted earlier in GD about Soviet patrols in remote parts of AK. Eskimos disappeared and may or may not have been killed when they found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. At least two AKARNG soldiers were killed in a firefight according to a quick search. The Cold War went hot in a very small way right on our own soil. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:38:22 AM EDT
[#7]
It's called the ACLU
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:41:22 AM EDT
[#8]
It's a damned shame US forces didn't capture a few of those teams in the act
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not that I've ever heard of, from that time frame. If the story about how he found them was true, then it would have been sometime around '83-'84ish, when he found them on a beach after hearing "people firing funny-sounding guns on full auto...". The old guy was a Vietnam-era combat vet, so he knew what weapons sounded like on automatic. The story was that he'd been in one inlet, heard full-auto fire, and went to see what the hell was going on. When he got to where he thought it was fired, he found the cases on the beach. They looked "funny", so he picked them up to show someone. When he reported it to the Alaska State Patrol, they pretty much blew him off. When he pulled them out for me, we'd been talking guns, and he was like "Maybe you know what these funny cases are that I found a few years ago...". I still don't know what to make of that shit, to be honest. It was a couple of years past the timeframe it happened, and I'm still sort of "WTF? Why would the Soviets be on a beach, firing weapons on full auto, in bumfuck Alaska? And, wouldn't the Soviet Navy have been more likely to have 7.62X39 AKM rifles, at that time, anyway? And, shouldn't the GRU have been using weapons that would have been deniable, not unique front-line 5.45mm that was still damn near a state secret at the time?". Doesn't make a damn bit of sense, but that was what I saw, and what I was told about how he'd found 'em. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. That's fascinating. Any other sources for stories about 5.45 cases found in Alaska? Not that I've ever heard of, from that time frame. If the story about how he found them was true, then it would have been sometime around '83-'84ish, when he found them on a beach after hearing "people firing funny-sounding guns on full auto...". The old guy was a Vietnam-era combat vet, so he knew what weapons sounded like on automatic. The story was that he'd been in one inlet, heard full-auto fire, and went to see what the hell was going on. When he got to where he thought it was fired, he found the cases on the beach. They looked "funny", so he picked them up to show someone. When he reported it to the Alaska State Patrol, they pretty much blew him off. When he pulled them out for me, we'd been talking guns, and he was like "Maybe you know what these funny cases are that I found a few years ago...". I still don't know what to make of that shit, to be honest. It was a couple of years past the timeframe it happened, and I'm still sort of "WTF? Why would the Soviets be on a beach, firing weapons on full auto, in bumfuck Alaska? And, wouldn't the Soviet Navy have been more likely to have 7.62X39 AKM rifles, at that time, anyway? And, shouldn't the GRU have been using weapons that would have been deniable, not unique front-line 5.45mm that was still damn near a state secret at the time?". Doesn't make a damn bit of sense, but that was what I saw, and what I was told about how he'd found 'em. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:44:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Please share the AK National Guard stories from the 80's I had heard rumors in the 80's of caves being found on the Alaskan coastline that were stocked with US vehicles and other gear painted and marked to appear as US Mil. The problem was that they weren't. The thought was that these caches were prepo USSR Spetnaz equip for ops if the SHTF. Not sure if it was true or not. From my perspective of US ops I'd say they were though. Pretty normal stuff actually. The whole world plays like this, some better than others. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:47:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:48:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a damned shame US forces didn't capture a few of those teams in the act If they did, we'd never know about it. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 11:09:20 AM EDT
[#12]
I've read stuff over the years that alleges that we did capture or kill a few in Vietnam, and it stands to reason we probably continued to do so.....
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they did, we'd never know about it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's a damned shame US forces didn't capture a few of those teams in the act If they did, we'd never know about it. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 11:43:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Post a link or two. Especially the AKARNG soldiers being killed one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There are threads that have been archived about this very topic. Here's a link to a blurb that was posted earlier in GD about Soviet patrols in remote parts of AK. Eskimos disappeared and may or may not have been killed when they found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. At least two AKARNG soldiers were killed in a firefight according to a quick search. The Cold War went hot in a very small way right on our own soil. You can conduct a search on Google and come up with all manner of stories and rumors which may or may not be true. Here's a link to a long post written by someone that claims to have been with 11th Group, and was involved in the search for missing AKANG Soldiers. It sounds true enough, although one can never be sure. It's on page 4, posted by "Medic18D". Read it here |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 11:43:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Now it makes sense why those cops in Barrow, Alaska have AKs.
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Posted: 4/16/2016 12:51:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Lol. Let me get this straight....a foreign nation's SOF is conducting ops on US soil and they're using their indigenous weapons? |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:00:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Dude, at that time, the US Army didn't have actual 5.45 rounds or AK74 rifles even in their possession. Some of the very first examples to make it back to the US came from Afghanistan via Soldier of Fortune, and all the technical intelligence people were pants-wettingly eager to suck up to Robert Brown and Peter Kokalis just to get a look at the stuff. The idea that US SF would be playing with the things, and firing them for training in Alaska? Preposterous. Flat-out pre-fucking-posterous. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:07:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol. Let me get this straight....a foreign nation's SOF is conducting ops on US soil and they're using their indigenous weapons? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Lol. Let me get this straight....a foreign nation's SOF is conducting ops on US soil and they're using their indigenous weapons? That would be the point I was getting at--It doesn't make any damn sense, whatsoever. On the other hand, you never know--It could have been some stupid sub commander trying to make a name for himself, in conjunction with some genius GRU guys who didn't give a damn about possibly starting shit with the US. There was a lot less centralized control of Soviet military and intelligence assets than we liked to imagine, back then. Most of the focus was on Europe, and the provinces of Eastern Siberia were a backwater where people went when their careers died. Chances someone might have been trying to revive that dead career via some cowboy action in Alaska? Who knows, for sure, but I do know that friends of mine who were engaged in that world made reference to that sort of problem, when dealing with the Soviets. For examples, look at the KAL shoot-down--None of that was really controlled by Moscow, it was all the second-raters out in Siberia making poor decisions. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:09:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Interesting topic.
Love reading about this stuff |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:16:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be the point I was getting at--It doesn't make any damn sense, whatsoever. On the other hand, you never know--It could have been some stupid sub commander trying to make a name for himself, in conjunction with some genius GRU guys who didn't give a damn about possibly starting shit with the US. There was a lot less centralized control of Soviet military and intelligence assets than we liked to imagine, back then. Most of the focus was on Europe, and the provinces of Eastern Siberia were a backwater where people went when their careers died. Chances someone might have been trying to revive that dead career via some cowboy action in Alaska? Who knows, for sure, but I do know that friends of mine who were engaged in that world made reference to that sort of problem, when dealing with the Soviets. For examples, look at the KAL shoot-down--None of that was really controlled by Moscow, it was all the second-raters out in Siberia making poor decisions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Lol. Let me get this straight....a foreign nation's SOF is conducting ops on US soil and they're using their indigenous weapons? That would be the point I was getting at--It doesn't make any damn sense, whatsoever. On the other hand, you never know--It could have been some stupid sub commander trying to make a name for himself, in conjunction with some genius GRU guys who didn't give a damn about possibly starting shit with the US. There was a lot less centralized control of Soviet military and intelligence assets than we liked to imagine, back then. Most of the focus was on Europe, and the provinces of Eastern Siberia were a backwater where people went when their careers died. Chances someone might have been trying to revive that dead career via some cowboy action in Alaska? Who knows, for sure, but I do know that friends of mine who were engaged in that world made reference to that sort of problem, when dealing with the Soviets. For examples, look at the KAL shoot-down--None of that was really controlled by Moscow, it was all the second-raters out in Siberia making poor decisions. After I posted that I got to thinking that perhaps it was just a fuck up on the part of the Soviets in the area....not a nefarious infil but rather they got lost doing a patrol. Who knows but I've heard these stories for years of Soviet monkey business in the AK mainland and the Aleutians. Only makes sense as we're in their backyard or vice versa, depending on your view. In that link with the 11th grp guy he mentions a USSR field ration piece, a battery, etc...that doesn't sound like a SOF op to me. Sounds more like Ivan, the Russian Private got lost. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:27:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, the first 5.45X39 cases I ever saw were in the hands of an Alaskan who said he found them on a remote beach, sometime in the early 1980s. This was at a point in time when the AK-74 was something being desperately sought by the folks at Soldier of Fortune, and when nobody at any of the military technical intelligence units had even seen the ammo or the rifle in the flesh. Take that for what it's worth--I think they were up there, doing God knows what. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but there it is. I know I saw those cases, and it was waaaaaaaaaay before the era of cheap 5.45mm surplus coming in. Hell, back then? You couldn't even find 7.62X39 very easily, and it was only available from Interarms for the Maadi or the Valmet imports they brought in. Seeing Soviet fired cases was... Bizarre. Funny thing was, when I brought up the issue with the Military Intelligence types, and the SF Group there at Fort Lewis, I got two stories: One, "You must be mistaken...", and two, "Oh, yeah, we already know alllllll about that...". I still am not too sure what the official story was supposed to be. So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Not enough 5.45 to go around. The 5.45 did not go international until the Afghan war, and even then why would it end up on a beach in Alaska. Is it possible US guys were shooting 5.45 on a beach in bumfuck Alaska? Sure. Likely, Fuck no. Is it possible and even likely for Soviets to run ops during the cold war in a place only a couple hundred kilometers in some places from mother Russia and crowded with international fishing vessels (some with national interests). Doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Both sides fucked with each other continuously during the cold war (and still do), it's just a little more laid back nowadays. We'll probably never know or hear the full extent as to what all happened during those times or what was going on where; but rest assured some twenty something on ARFCOM will assure us, "it's not possible, 'murica" 
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:28:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After I posted that I got to thinking that perhaps it was just a fuck up on the part of the Soviets in the area....not a nefarious infil but rather they got lost doing a patrol. Who knows but I've heard these stories for years of Soviet monkey business in the AK mainland and the Aleutians. Only makes sense as we're in their backyard or vice versa, depending on your view. In that link with the 11th grp guy he mentions a USSR field ration piece, a battery, etc...that doesn't sound like a SOF op to me. Sounds more like Ivan, the Russian Private got lost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So, what were they shooting at? It seems to me as though you start to attract attention when you get all bangie-bangie. Not if it wasn't Soviets. For all we know those cases could have come from US SF types training on Soviet weapons. Just because someone found fired 5.45 cases doesn't mean Spetznas was running and gunning in Anchorage. Lol. Let me get this straight....a foreign nation's SOF is conducting ops on US soil and they're using their indigenous weapons? That would be the point I was getting at--It doesn't make any damn sense, whatsoever. On the other hand, you never know--It could have been some stupid sub commander trying to make a name for himself, in conjunction with some genius GRU guys who didn't give a damn about possibly starting shit with the US. There was a lot less centralized control of Soviet military and intelligence assets than we liked to imagine, back then. Most of the focus was on Europe, and the provinces of Eastern Siberia were a backwater where people went when their careers died. Chances someone might have been trying to revive that dead career via some cowboy action in Alaska? Who knows, for sure, but I do know that friends of mine who were engaged in that world made reference to that sort of problem, when dealing with the Soviets. For examples, look at the KAL shoot-down--None of that was really controlled by Moscow, it was all the second-raters out in Siberia making poor decisions. After I posted that I got to thinking that perhaps it was just a fuck up on the part of the Soviets in the area....not a nefarious infil but rather they got lost doing a patrol. Who knows but I've heard these stories for years of Soviet monkey business in the AK mainland and the Aleutians. Only makes sense as we're in their backyard or vice versa, depending on your view. In that link with the 11th grp guy he mentions a USSR field ration piece, a battery, etc...that doesn't sound like a SOF op to me. Sounds more like Ivan, the Russian Private got lost. If we were talking land borders, yeah, maybe... But, with that whole Bering Strait thing serving as a rather wide and deep moat? Any Soviet presence on US soil had to be by plan, not "accident". I would, however, not be a bit surprised if some of those "events" led back to the Eastern region Spetsnatz and GRU guys doing "He-man challenges", as they were supposed to be doing along the Turkish border and elsewhere. Supposedly, there were a lot of cases where they'd do unsanctioned shit, just to show off to each other and impress the higher-ups. I talked to one guy who emigrated, long after the Soviet Union fell, and he freely admitted there was a bunch of crap that they did like that, as "graduation exercises" and so forth. He'd been assigned along the Turkish border as an MVD border guard, and described having to go out and rescue a bunch of Spetsnatz guys who'd missed their pickup because they were being pursued by the Turks after going into Turkey as a "final exercise" in training. So, Alaska? Maybe... They didn't centralize their training, the way we did--The Spetsnatz guys for the Siberian commands would have been trained in Siberia, by the local command, soooo... It isn't implausible that they'd do stuff like that. All I know is that I saw 5.45mm cases in the hands of a civilian, long before that was commonplace here in the US. His story, and where they came from? I've got no fucking clue. All I know is, he had them, and I saw them. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:29:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well it's kind of hard to overlook the legions of their intelligence people crawling all over Europe and North America, especially their funding and support of political groups. That's doing more damage still than their military probably ever would. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I read Blind Man's Bluff not too long ago and it got me thinking: did the Soviets run similar operations against us? Did they tap undersea cables? Attempt to salvage sunken US ships? Land special operations forces on US territory? I vaguely remember reading something about people finding evidence of Soviet troops in Alaska, but I don't know if that was true or not. Well it's kind of hard to overlook the legions of their intelligence people crawling all over Europe and North America, especially their funding and support of political groups. That's doing more damage still than their military probably ever would. The nuclear disarmament groups that curiously didn't worry about Soviet nukes and radical environmentalists trying to hamper US and European industry were Soviet funded and guided shills. The anti-Vietnam "peace" movement was so effective that Stanislav Lunev claimed that supporting it was the best billion dollars they spent. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:31:07 PM EDT
[#23]
I can buy that the Rooskies were running black recon ops in rural Alaska during the Cold War. What I don't buy is that they were firing their weapons unless absolutely necessary, and that if they did so they wouldn't recover the brass.
There's always the possibility that they left the brass there with the intent that it would be found as a form of psychological warfare, I guess... But then why do it in one of the most remote parts of the earth, and in such a subtle manner (what are the odds whoever recovered the brass, if anyone, would recognize it as Soviet?) |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:42:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The greatest weakness of the Soviet Navy, beyond a doubt. All technical knowledge was found in the Officers and Michmen (Warrant Officers). Many of their enlisted conscripts could not even speak Russian - which makes for a very difficult situation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You must have missed the part of BMB where they discuss after the fall of the wall the Ruskies admitted that the crews of their subs were officers doing many roles and unmotivated and untrained conscripts. Not to mention the many lost Russian subs they'll never admit. Great book though. The greatest weakness of the Soviet Navy, beyond a doubt. All technical knowledge was found in the Officers and Michmen (Warrant Officers). Many of their enlisted conscripts could not even speak Russian - which makes for a very difficult situation. That was an endemic problem across the entire Soviet military, especially when it came to more technical units/systems. I have a picture around here somewhere of a Soviet air defense radar site where all of the operators were Senior Lieutenants and up, and this wasn't at their version of NORAD it was a mobile site for an SA-8 battery attached to one of the Guards Tank Divisions. There was a reason that the Strategic Rocket Forces got first dibs on their conscript classes, it was practically the only way to ensure they could get guys that could even speak the same language let alone actually be trained to operate ICBMs. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can buy that the Rooskies were running black recon ops in rural Alaska during the Cold War. What I don't buy is that they were firing their weapons unless absolutely necessary, and that if they did so they wouldn't recover the brass. There's always the possibility that they left the brass there with the intent that it would be found as a form of psychological warfare, I guess... But then why do it in one of the most remote parts of the earth, and in such a subtle manner (what are the odds whoever recovered the brass, if anyone, would recognize it as Soviet?) Exactly why they might not worry about recovering it all. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#26]
The Russians were all over Europe, the ME, Asia, Latin America, and Africa. Of course they were active in the US as well, and I'm sure they still are. There's lots of fellow travellers in Europe and the US.
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:49:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Yup, the USSR wasn't just made up of Russians.
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:53:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, the USSR wasn't just made up of Russians. We used to get a lot of Polish "salesmen" and Latvian "lorry drivers" here. There were fewer of them in the 90's, but in the past decade they've been getting more common. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:54:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians were all over Europe, the ME, Asia, Latin America, and Africa. Of course they were active in the US as well, and I'm sure they still are. There's lots of fellow travellers in Europe and the US. Indeed, and of course they still have people here, the whole Anna Chapman deal was in 2010 and I doubt the Russians have since decided to knock it off. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:09:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, they steamed along with our battlegroups. We assigned our AGI a station in the screen once just to keep them out of the way. They kept station better than the Spanish Navy did, and broke maneuvering signals faster and flawlessly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Soviet AGI's operated off our naval bases nearly continuously throughout the '70's-'80's just in international waters. Hell, they steamed along with our battlegroups. We assigned our AGI a station in the screen once just to keep them out of the way. They kept station better than the Spanish Navy did, and broke maneuvering signals faster and flawlessly. "Come on comrade, if you are going to be a part of this show we might as well make you a spot"
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:11:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians were all over Europe, the ME, Asia, Latin America, and Africa. Of course they were active in the US as well, and I'm sure they still are. There's lots of fellow travellers in Europe and the US. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:13:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Uncle was in 7th Group SF in the 80s and 90s. He said he ran ito the Soviets in Guatemala, Honduras, El Sapvador, and Nicaragua. They were all training their respective rabble rousers. Shining Path, Contras, etc... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Russians were all over Europe, the ME, Asia, Latin America, and Africa. Of course they were active in the US as well, and I'm sure they still are. There's lots of fellow travellers in Europe and the US. Yup, Russian "advisors" were as prevalent as the AK itself. The two usually went hand in hand. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:16:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We used to get a lot of Polish "salesmen" and Latvian "lorry drivers" here. There were fewer of them in the 90's, but in the past decade they've been getting more common. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yup, the USSR wasn't just made up of Russians. We used to get a lot of Polish "salesmen" and Latvian "lorry drivers" here. There were fewer of them in the 90's, but in the past decade they've been getting more common. Though the relative amateurish of the illegals ring we rolled up recently was pretty breathtaking. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:20:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Though the relative amateurish of the illegals ring we rolled up recently was pretty breathtaking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yup, the USSR wasn't just made up of Russians. We used to get a lot of Polish "salesmen" and Latvian "lorry drivers" here. There were fewer of them in the 90's, but in the past decade they've been getting more common. Though the relative amateurish of the illegals ring we rolled up recently was pretty breathtaking. The Russians seem to have different tiers of agents. Some are basically disposable junior varsity players, while others run decade-long operations that are very sophisticated. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:23:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians seem to have different tiers of agents. Some are basically disposable junior varsity players, while others run decade-long operations that are very sophisticated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yup, the USSR wasn't just made up of Russians. We used to get a lot of Polish "salesmen" and Latvian "lorry drivers" here. There were fewer of them in the 90's, but in the past decade they've been getting more common. Though the relative amateurish of the illegals ring we rolled up recently was pretty breathtaking. The Russians seem to have different tiers of agents. Some are basically disposable junior varsity players, while others run decade-long operations that are very sophisticated. Yep, and honestly I'm less worried about the guys (and girls) that signed up after the USSR fell than the ones that have been sitting waiting for a phonecall since the '80s. I'm sure not all of them said "Ahh the hell with it" and went home in 1991. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:28:22 PM EDT
[#36]
The Soviets beat the US in terms of intel operations. The way they manipulated the entire leftist segments in the west was masterful. The Peace Movements, Non Nuclear Movements, Leftist College Movements, etc....
They used Western Society's openness againt them and even after twenty plus years of the fall of the USSR, their effects are still being felt. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:33:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Soviets beat the US in terms of intel operations. The way they manipulated the entire leftist segments in the west was masterful. The Peace Movements, Non Nuclear Movements, Leftist College Movements, etc.... They used Western Society's openness againt them and even after twenty plus years of the fall of the USSR, their effects are still being felt. That's a fact. This book has a plethora of information on how the Soviets ran intel operations in the West since the founding of the USSR and how they manipulated and/or outright controlled and financed entire organizations in the West. Everything from academia to the protest movements you mentioned. The followup book specifically details what they did in Central and South America but I haven't gotten around to reading that one yet. Sword and the Shied was very interesting, but very, very dense. It's not something you sit down and read unless you really want to get into the weeds on Soviet intelligence operations. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:36:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Soviets beat the US in terms of intel operations. The way they manipulated the entire leftist segments in the west was masterful. The Peace Movements, Non Nuclear Movements, Leftist College Movements, etc.... They used Western Society's openness againt them and even after twenty plus years of the fall of the USSR, their effects are still being felt. The Russians were masters of using their limited funds to wreak havoc. This guy compromised a signficant part of our air defense, costing us tens of billions of dollars in todays money, and it only cost the Soviets a few hundred thousand dollars. The Green/anti-nuke movement was the same way. The Russians spent very little, but gained a lot. The West is still suffering from the actions of the KGB/GRU in the 70's. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:49:58 PM EDT
[#39]
I remember reading in the Baltimore Sun the original report of a Mistral MANPAD found on a quiet country road in Westminster in the fall of 1994. Said it was found buy a trucker and MSP EOD responded. Then that was it, never heard another word about it. The text of that article can still be found floating around the internet. Always wondered about that.
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Posted: 4/16/2016 2:55:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can conduct a search on Google and come up with all manner of stories and rumors which may or may not be true. Here's a link to a long post written by someone that claims to have been with 11th Group, and was involved in the search for missing AKANG Soldiers. It sounds true enough, although one can never be sure. It's on page 4, posted by "Medic18D". Read it here Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are threads that have been archived about this very topic. Here's a link to a blurb that was posted earlier in GD about Soviet patrols in remote parts of AK. Eskimos disappeared and may or may not have been killed when they found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. At least two AKARNG soldiers were killed in a firefight according to a quick search. The Cold War went hot in a very small way right on our own soil. You can conduct a search on Google and come up with all manner of stories and rumors which may or may not be true. Here's a link to a long post written by someone that claims to have been with 11th Group, and was involved in the search for missing AKANG Soldiers. It sounds true enough, although one can never be sure. It's on page 4, posted by "Medic18D". Read it here True or not, it was a hell of a good read. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 3:13:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians were masters of using their limited funds to wreak havoc. This guy compromised a signficant part of our air defense, costing us tens of billions of dollars in todays money, and it only cost the Soviets a few hundred thousand dollars. The Green/anti-nuke movement was the same way. The Russians spent very little, but gained a lot. The West is still suffering from the actions of the KGB/GRU in the 70's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Soviets beat the US in terms of intel operations. The way they manipulated the entire leftist segments in the west was masterful. The Peace Movements, Non Nuclear Movements, Leftist College Movements, etc.... They used Western Society's openness againt them and even after twenty plus years of the fall of the USSR, their effects are still being felt. The Russians were masters of using their limited funds to wreak havoc. This guy compromised a signficant part of our air defense, costing us tens of billions of dollars in todays money, and it only cost the Soviets a few hundred thousand dollars. The Green/anti-nuke movement was the same way. The Russians spent very little, but gained a lot. The West is still suffering from the actions of the KGB/GRU in the 70's. Leftists and dumb fucks...... I bet you Soviets had a hand in that. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 3:35:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can buy that the Rooskies were running black recon ops in rural Alaska during the Cold War. What I don't buy is that they were firing their weapons unless absolutely necessary, and that if they did so they wouldn't recover the brass. There's always the possibility that they left the brass there with the intent that it would be found as a form of psychological warfare, I guess... But then why do it in one of the most remote parts of the earth, and in such a subtle manner (what are the odds whoever recovered the brass, if anyone, would recognize it as Soviet?) You ever met a drunk Russian? Logic don't enter into it. 
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Posted: 4/16/2016 3:49:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sentenced to life imprisonment and later reduced to 20 years and was released at 10 years because the standard MO was to have prisoners serve half of their term. Leftists and dumb fucks...... I bet you Soviets had a hand in that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Soviets beat the US in terms of intel operations. The way they manipulated the entire leftist segments in the west was masterful. The Peace Movements, Non Nuclear Movements, Leftist College Movements, etc.... They used Western Society's openness againt them and even after twenty plus years of the fall of the USSR, their effects are still being felt. The Russians were masters of using their limited funds to wreak havoc. This guy compromised a signficant part of our air defense, costing us tens of billions of dollars in todays money, and it only cost the Soviets a few hundred thousand dollars. The Green/anti-nuke movement was the same way. The Russians spent very little, but gained a lot. The West is still suffering from the actions of the KGB/GRU in the 70's. Leftists and dumb fucks...... I bet you Soviets had a hand in that. Absolutely. The Social Democrats were in charge at the time, and they ruled with the help of the Communist Party (which was controlled from Moscow until 1991). |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 3:59:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The natives on Little Diomede find Russian dry cell batteries and other discarded military gear sometimes? Didn't someone in Alaska find spent 5.45x39 rounds during the early days of the AK74? I seem to remember reading something about that on here. No reason to underestimate them, they did a fine job infiltrating academia. Ever wonder why we have so many dope smoking commie profs?
I know a guy that grew up in a former Soviet Satellite state, pretty funny to hear similar allegations. 
They were at least as afraid of us as we were of them... |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 4:40:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't someone in Alaska find spent 5.45x39 rounds during the early days of the AK74? I seem to remember reading something about that on here. No reason to underestimate them, they did a fine job infiltrating academia. Ever wonder why we have so many dope smoking commie profs? I know a guy that grew up in a former Soviet Satellite state, pretty funny to hear similar allegations. They were at least as afraid of us as we were of them... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The natives on Little Diomede find Russian dry cell batteries and other discarded military gear sometimes? Didn't someone in Alaska find spent 5.45x39 rounds during the early days of the AK74? I seem to remember reading something about that on here. No reason to underestimate them, they did a fine job infiltrating academia. Ever wonder why we have so many dope smoking commie profs? I know a guy that grew up in a former Soviet Satellite state, pretty funny to hear similar allegations. They were at least as afraid of us as we were of them... The Yugoslavians had a saying. If WWIII broke out the Danube would be red. Either from the blood spilled killing the Soviets if they invaded or because every party booklet would be thrown in if the US and NATO invaded. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 4:42:37 PM EDT
[#46]
They routinely do surveillance flights over our country to this day.
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Posted: 4/16/2016 4:46:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You ever met a drunk Russian? Logic don't enter into it. http://img.swifty.com/slides/1/5/5/3/2/8/1553284146/3d0e206c2021c55d307206e14f6a1c19faf33f1d.jpeg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can buy that the Rooskies were running black recon ops in rural Alaska during the Cold War. What I don't buy is that they were firing their weapons unless absolutely necessary, and that if they did so they wouldn't recover the brass. There's always the possibility that they left the brass there with the intent that it would be found as a form of psychological warfare, I guess... But then why do it in one of the most remote parts of the earth, and in such a subtle manner (what are the odds whoever recovered the brass, if anyone, would recognize it as Soviet?) You ever met a drunk Russian? Logic don't enter into it. http://img.swifty.com/slides/1/5/5/3/2/8/1553284146/3d0e206c2021c55d307206e14f6a1c19faf33f1d.jpeg Ever met a sober Russian? Pretty much the same story. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 6:38:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Where the hell do you think Chilean Socialist President Salvador Allende and his goons got AK-47 rifles?
   He later used his personal AK to kill himself during the coup lead by Pinochet in 1973.  |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 6:40:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where the hell do you think Chilean Socialist President Salvador Allende and his goons got AK-47 rifles? http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/chileclarin/3-Allende-NYT_Rara-logo1.jpg http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxop0vBR9x1qcx3szo1_1280.jpg http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/25/37/76/5635988/3/920x920.jpg He later used his personal AK to kill himself during the coup lead by Pinochet in 1973. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vcntOoJnixE/VY5vSsvDFlI/AAAAAAAAqLg/TKcNaUmjTvQ/s640/Allende.jpg
The only good Commie is a dead Commie. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 6:47:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only good Commie is a dead Commie.  |
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