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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:31:38 PM EDT
[#1]
So as a southerner you shouldn't be allowed to forget slavery, or as an American the indians, either huh? |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:34:54 PM EDT
[#2]
You don't bear the guilt for it, but if you don't disassociate yourself from it, it's tacit approval. I think the current German population is an absolute disgrace, and I could not give a rats ass if they got nuked tomorrow. France I expect dishonorable behaviour from. I had higher hopes for Germany, NONE of which have been met. If you drive a beemer, Benz or bug, then you are supporting the backstabbing bastards. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:35:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Post from norman74:
Nope. We should always remember where we went wrong in the past. But we didn't set up concentration camps in a systematic effort to eradicate the Indians from the Continent. The Indians disappeared from the West and off the reservations by intermarrying with the white Europeans. I'm pretty confident that the Jews did not almost wholly disappear from Europe between 1939 and 1945 by intermarriage! Aren't you? Eric The(Truthful,SezI)Hun 
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:39:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Really? No bullets, or illness brough by whites, or starvation caused by whites, it was all just dilution of bloodlines by marrying whites? C'mon. I personally am not very thrilled by Germany's current behavior, but personally there are alot of things that the current crop are actively doing that concern me way more than what their parents or grandparents might have done. With all that we have to be upset at them about, making the children accountible for the sins of their fathers is pretty useless. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:42:27 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm not crucifying them for the actions of their forefathers, I am calling them on the carpet for their treachery w/r/t Iraq. They stabbed us in the back, and for that they can all rot... the fact that they used "non-aggression due to past actions" as an excuse is pathetic. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:49:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Post from norman74 -
What makes you think that I don't know of the Indian Wars of America's past? But there were not 'millions' of 'redskins' that were even involved in those wars, and who could have died in battles and massacres. Likewise, in the East and in the South, there were no reservations, as such, and the Indian populations just gradually disappeared into the white community. Until the advent of Indian Casinos! Then we found out just how many Indians we have left.
Why cut them slack in either direction? Huh?
Nonsense! They need to be reminded of their failings as a nation and as a people at every turn in the road. Eric The(NeverForgive,NeverForget)Hun
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:52:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Keep that in mind next time I reply to one of your relgious posts. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:53:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Read the book "Hitler's Willing Executioneers". Gives you an insight into the mindset of the typical German civilians reaction to the Jews in Pre-WW2/WW2 period.
One example given is a German policeman who arrests a guy for beating a dog but did not think twice when confronted with a Jew being beat up by someone. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:58:33 PM EDT
[#9]
This is a basic issue of what is taught in history texts. All American kids learn anymore is how horrible there own government has been. We have gone to one extreme. Under this new EU textbook, European kids will learn little about how horrible there governmnets have been. The Japanese have been playing the same games for years. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:00:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Yup Stalin and Mao made Hitler look like a rank amatuer. And when it comes to diabolicalness of the attrocity look at Japan. And then there is our own sorid past. We overlooked the deeds of Japan out of personal interests. And Germany is HARDLY the last country to fight along racial lines. Palestine and Israel have been conducting a continuation of Hitlers war for "racial purity"and "living space" since the end of WW2. I don't think ANYONE will ever not know what Nazi Germany did. And unlike Japan at least the kids in Germany are taught about the facts of Germany in WWII. Many people in Japan have never heard ot the Rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March or are even aware of the bio testing that went on in Manchuria. In a generation there will be few people in China who know the truth about the brutality of Maos cultural revolution. And do I even need to discuss Africa? Yet sadly the world at large in painfully unaware of savagry that occurs every day there and has for over 50 years. As far as Germany? Dead horse. We know, EVERYBODY KNOWS and nobody is in danger of not knowing for 1,000s of years. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:02:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Why should I? I've always been honest and forthright in discussing my own personal failings as a Christian. But I've never pushed an old lady or children into an oven, nor have I ever fought in a war to protect those who did. See the difference, o' blind man? Eric The(ClearAndConcise,AsAlways)Hun
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#12]
I learned about Germany's history, France's history, Britain's history, all in high school. I took additional specific history classes to learn about the era of the Plague, etc. etc. Having been to a german high school, I can tell you they're taught their own history as well as American history.
ETH, I've always liked you dear. I'm disappointed in your views on Germany though. I still have family there and out of all my family members they are the best of the group. You may not agree with their political practices, views, etc. but don't say that all the people of that country can go to hell. I wouldn't wish that upon your family dear. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:10:00 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't remember who, among the Germans intellectuals said it, maybe Nietsche: " I love Germany. But when the monster of the nationalism arise, I spend my nights sleepless".
Should be Germans forgiven? Yes. Should we allow them to forget? The hell NO. And this is valid also for me, as Italian... And I am WILLING not to forget. NEVER. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:15:38 PM EDT
[#14]
You guys are missing the point.
The world must NEVER forget what true evil is and what happens when it goes unchecked. If you asked all the German school kids right now who was the greater evil, George Bush or Adolph Hitler, I will bet you that George Bush wins the contest. Let us not forget that Europe would like to forget why the dirty zionist oppressor state came to be. It is easy to call Israel a nazi state when you don't teach kids what the nazis really were. Lets face it, the way the world is today is a direct consequence of the lessons of the past century. If you don't know the past, how can you possibly fucking understand the present. This isn't some benvelent "forgive the father's sins". This is a direct way to forge some European dominated future without understanding what this world suffered when the europeans were the dominant societies. Of course, if HKs and goose stepping nazis give you hard-ons, you probably like this new european teaching. Should have read through the post. I like SteyrAugs equivication of Israel and Nazi Germany. Yep, same thing exactly. Its nice to see jew haters on both sides of the continent unite in one belief. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:17:29 PM EDT
[#15]
The feeling is quite mutual, I can assure you!
No, I bet you're really not, for I don't think the Germans need to be reminded 24/7 of those dark days, but by the same token, I think they should never be permitted to forget what happened. If only to prevent it from happening again. Think about WWI and all the pain that war caused, how it humbled the Germans, and how we were told it wouldn't happen again....until less than a generation later they were once again at Europe's throat!
I still have family there, as well. They were too slow to get on the boat when it was leaving for the New World...in 1900 AD!
I'm not too happy with Germany at the moment, so I think we'd better discuss something else. The Germans detest President Bush....and I say Americans who detest President Bush can all 'Go to Hell'! Why would I treat the Germans better than I do my fellow Americans?
I amend my previous statement to say that 'Germany, less and except all of HeldHostage's kith and kin, can 'Go to Hell'! See? I've even damned my own relatives with that statement! Eric The(Amiable)Hun
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:22:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Negative. They were all professional monsters, and their people did little or nothing to oppose them. The FACT that Germany came to Hussein's defense (you cannot call their attempted blocking of US action in the UN anything else) proves that they are willing ONCE AGAIN to turn a blind eye to genocide. It was, and is, the German people's responsibility to elect leaders to carry out their will. As we bear responsibility for Clinton selling secrets to the Chinese (even if we did not vote for him, did we work hard enough to get him out of there?) so do the German people bear responsibility for the SOB they put in office. When I was a kid, I never understood why the Germans were hated so much in WWII, they seemed like us, not like the Japanese..."they" were different. After having worked with people from all over the world, and seeing their arrogance (they are not called "little Americans" for nothing), I now know why. The most appropriate ending for this debacle is for the RoP to take over Germany, they supported them, they can live under their rule. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:26:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Damn, I was always pretty Proud of My KRAUT heritage. Not of the 3rd reich or anything associate with it. Hell some of my ancestors even fled Germany at this time.
Why remind me of it. I had nothing to do with it. Shit happened in the past, You can't hold every Kraut decendant accountable for it. I guess what I am trying to say in short, If you think I should be held accountable or reminded of it, , you can kiss my KRAUT ASS |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:30:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Did you vote for (or against) Schroder? Probably not, since I don't think Texans are allowed to vote in German elections (Palm Beach County in Florida might be an exception) The current German population doesn't seem to have learned the lesson that they should have from the last war (Fight genocide & tyranny wherever you find it) |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:31:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks, I feel better now that my family's excluded! 
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:48:32 PM EDT
[#20]
This is key right here. If their kids don't learn about the past in schools, they will never acknowledge it when someone from another country tries to hold them to it. Our own kids today don't learn about our past, whether it involves the Indians, or the Minutemen. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:50:10 PM EDT
[#21]
[DU]They do too! Bush killed the indians after the Minutemen dumped his daddy's tea in Boston harbor[/DU] |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:51:11 PM EDT
[#22]
What was it that Santayana said?
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:53:41 PM EDT
[#23]
The Germans shall not have atoned for at least another 10 thousand years. They should never be allowed to forget, and the fact is they lost. They do not get the privilege of writing that chapter of their history, we do and we have a long memory.
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Posted: 10/31/2004 3:04:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Did you misread my post? Or are you just being an ass? My post dealt with the US of A teaching history, including the parts that don't make the US look good. As opposed to Germany or Japan "editing" their history to eliminate treachery that occurred in their past. It didn't compare what the nations mentioned have done in the past, just how they treat their past in the present. Oly(helping idiots understand)M4gery. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 3:14:26 PM EDT
[#25]
A continuation of Hitler's war of racial purity? what bullshit. Hitler's continuation of racial purity was the final solution. 15% of the population in Israel is Muslim. When the Israelis box them up and execute every one of them then I will agree on your statement of the continuation of Hitler's war on racial purity. That is the lesson that must not be forgotten. Man through the ages have killed millions of his fellow man either through direct killing or starvation. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda, even the English in not allowing the Irish to keep some of their food; either outright killed or allowed millions to die of starvation. The difference between them and Hitler is that while they murdered their own people for the most part, Hitler choose to cleanse his undesirables world wide if possible in a systematic assembly line. Who else in history have you seen that perfected the art of disposing humans in such a wide scale. That is the legacy of the Nazi's, not the shear numbers mentioned. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 3:32:16 PM EDT
[#26]
What did he have to say about this?:  
As an intern and resident, I met German medical exchange students like yours. It is very scary how clueless some of them are about their past.  |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 5:04:36 PM EDT
[#27]
The difference here is that Nazis and war criminals are still alive because the events are still relatively recent. There actually are SS men still proud of what they did alive. When they are all dead I will agree with you. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 5:25:06 PM EDT
[#28]
If Hitler had called himself a 'communist' and killed 6 million Catholics, he'd probably be a hero right now. Among more people than would admit. On T-shirts with the Move-on.org crowd, just like Che Guevera But he didn't, so he isn't. If everything was different, then nothing would be the same. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 5:39:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Post from OLY-M4gery -
I don't recall ever reading your post. Not that I didn't read your post, but simply that I can't recall reading it. Why? What did it say?
That is always a distinct possibility, but what does that have to do with whether or not I read your post?
Cool. So what?
They do seem to do a lot of that.
I did not specifically mention any post of yours, at all. I was directing my comments to those who, whenever the subject of Nazi/Communist/whatever atrocities come up, always blather on about just how 'barbaric' America has been in the past. As IF the two could be reasonably compared. Now, what that has to do with your post is unclear. Are you smoking something this evening? Did you bring anough to share with the rest of us? Then go away! Eric The(HelpingIdiotsStayOnPointEvenWhenTheyThinkOtherwise)Hun
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Posted: 10/31/2004 6:37:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Funny, my posts were the only ones that specifically mention the US and Britian, and your post says "To mention either the United States or Great Britain in the same thread as the Nazis is an hideous attempt to equate the great sins of Hitler and Nazism with anything that was ever done by English-speaking peoples anywhere at any time in history." I guess that was just a mere coincidence  |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 8:47:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Since we are being "honest" let's not promote the myth that Nazis cooked anyone alive. No old ladies or children were tossed in the ovens. It is an idiotic suggestion. Now the Nazis certainly DID kill old women and children. And ovens certainly were used to cremate the bodies. But nobody was cooked alive. What made the Nazis so terrible was their efficiency in mass murder. Death by oven is hardly efficient. People were killed (usually gased) and their remains were put in ovens for efficient disposal. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 8:58:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Hitler - 10 Million Stalin - 20 Million Mao - 25 Million
Germany also fought Hussein in Gulf War I remember? Also Germany is NOT the World PD. Did we rush in and save those who were dying in China under Mao?
The same SOB who sent troops to help us in Afghanistan?
Germans like Nimitz, Einstein, my Grandfather? Those Germans?
OK I give up, what is RoP? |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 9:11:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Same idea but trains and gas chambers would be too obvious. Israel is a religious/racial state similar to Germany where a person who is a Jew/Aryan is automatically a citizen if Israel/Germany. Like the Nazis the police are militarized with a secret police force Mossad/SS. Like Nazi Germany there are laws that are specific to Jews and non Jews, just as Germany had laws specific to Aryans and non Aryans. It actually kinda ironic to consider the parallels that exist. Also Hitlers ideas or racial purity existed LONG BEFORE the Wanasee Conference. If Germany has been able to emigrate 100% of the European Jews the "final solution" would not have happened (there was even talk about sending them all to Madagascar). And that is what I meant by "same idea." It was not to suggest Israel was currently constructing camps and gas chambers, though I imagine a few would go for it.
How many Jews did Stalin kill? Were they not "undesirable"? And Gulags and mass starvation seem to be as efficient, if not more, than Hitlers "final solution." |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 9:11:27 PM EDT
[#34]
You think so? Personally I think if Hitler had murdered any group of people in the way he did the "Jews" it would still be as big a deal. Of course, Hitler did not have to be a Communist to hate the Catholics. Read about Father Otto Neururer, Monsignor Bernhard Lichtenberg, and Father Karl Leisner among a group of 300+ other Catholic leaders that Hitler disposed of. Funny you mention Che Guevera. I got into an arguement with a co-worker about him two nights ago when she said she wanted to see that new movie that is coming out about him. She thought he was this great freedom fighter somewhat akin to our founding fathers. Of course she is a Mexican-American and bleeding heart Democrat to boot. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 9:11:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Well, as long as they didn't burn anyone alive, I guess the systematic killing of millions isn't as evil as it could've been. That's sarcasm, the distinction between gassing and burning people to death is bullshit. Oh, and if thousands and thousands were burned in ovens, after being gassed, how can you be sure that not 1 was alive after being exposed to the posion gas? |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 9:18:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Are you fucking kidding me? Are you ACTUALLY trying to suggest I'm giving them a pass? You even quoted this in RED. What made the Nazis so terrible was their efficiency in mass murder. All I was trying to do is stay FACTUAL. It is extremely UNLIKELY that ANYONE was burned alive. It took too long. They'd have been shot, beaten to death or gassed. I just get annoyed at the Hansel and Gretel scenario because people actually believe those ovens were used on live people. It is stupid. I point out how stupid the suggestion is and then SUDDENLY I am portrayed as some kind of apologist. Please show me ANYWHERE where I suggested the murder of 10 Million (yes 10, there were 4 million other people who didn't happen to be Jewish) was not evil or ok. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 9:53:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Good points. However, even though some may say they are second class citizens , Israeli Arabs are still considered citizens. Jews were stripped of their citizenship in Nazi Germany.
Very true but the inability of the Jews being able to emigrate does not excuse the actions of the Nazi's in their solution of the Jewish problem.
I don't know. How many Jews did Stalin kill? I know he removed them from positions of power during his purge. As to outright killing them because they were Jews, you tell me.
True, but the mass starvations were the result of resistance to Stalins efforts of collectivization. Hitler killed people simply for what they were. Had Hitler the means, he would have killed every Jew in the world. Stalin would kill people who felt were a threat to him. Number wise, Stalin killed more of his countrymen. Hitler though killed the Jews for what they were, Jews. Even when the war was totally lost, Hitler was doing everything in his power to exterminate the Jew of Hungary among others. The point is SA, the examples you portray in modern Israel may be accurate, but you yourself compare them to Nazi Germany. That is why it is good to remember the past. That is why we took action in Yugoslavia. Why the U.N. has made half-ass attempts at stopping the civil war in Rwanda. It is not because of the revolutionary changes that caused mass killings in China, Cambodia, or the Soviet Union. It is because we remember the horrors of the holocaust. At least, thats my take on the subject. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 10:02:43 PM EDT
[#38]
I love how people will one second wrap themselves in the American flag and declare, "Give me liberty or give me death!" and the next second they are praising the nation that they came from. Fuck that. I am descended from some fucked up English-German heritage and it hasn't done a damn thing for me. Germany isn't putting food on my table, nor is England wiping my ass when I shit. America is the only country that has ever given me liberty, freedom, individualism, protection, and pride. YOU, sir, CAN KISS MY AMERICAN ASS. By the way, tell all your "Kraut Texans" that the U-boat is leaving and the tickets are being bought up. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 10:20:03 PM EDT
[#39]
To be fair I have heard this statement made in more than one book dealing with the holocaust. The one senario I can remember is that toward the end of the war the children who were being "looked" after by Dr. Mengele were thrown alive into the ovens in order to save on the cost of gas. Also, in the book by Olga Lengyel ("Five Chimneys"), a survivor of Auschwitz, she describes how sometimes people would not be dead after the gassing. They would be loaded up with the dead and thrown into the ovens. In a slightly different vain, look at the actions of the Einsatzgruppe in Russia during WW2. There is ample documentation of them throwing live babies on top of the dead before being burried alive. They would also sometimes kill the babies by banging them on the ground or hitting their heads against trees. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 10:35:46 PM EDT
[#40]
There were infact cases where people survived the gassing or shooting and were loaded injured into the ovens alive. If you gas enough people (millions) you will eventually have some that are resistant to the gas or for whatever reason survive.  |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 12:25:58 AM EDT
[#41]
Good God, SteyrAUG? An apologist for the Nazis? Wow! Knock me over with a feather. Are you saying that no one was ever burned alive by the Nazis? What a jackass! I was simply making a point, not describing an actual historical event. Maybe I should have said, ''I've never locked an old lady or kids in a Synagogue in Soviet Russia and then burned it down around their heads while machine-gunning anyone who attempted to flee the burning house of worship!" Does that satisfy your Aryan pride and historical sensibilities? Sheesh! Get a grip, once again!  Eric The(Stunned)Hun
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Posted: 11/1/2004 12:44:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Just in case anyone tries to say that Jews were NEVER locked in their synagogues which the Nazis promptly burned to the ground because that is 'so unlike the Nazis', here's a German aerial photo taken of the burning of the Great Synagogue of Bialystok and the Plonaska Synagogue, in June, 1941:
 Caption: German aerial photo of June 27th, 1941 "aktion" against Bialystok Jews. On lower right the Great Synagogue can be seen starting to burn, with more than 2000 Jews locked inside and burnt alive. Upper left hand is Plonaska Synagogue and surroundings burning. This scene was duplicated hundreds of times across the face of Russia, and even in other parts of Europe. So, SteyrAUG, what is your opinion of this? Do you retract your previous statement:
Eric The(StillStunned)Hun
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Posted: 11/1/2004 1:34:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Post from OLY-M4gery -
Oh! Really? I suppose you must have missed this one on PAGE 1 of this fricking thread:
What's the matter? Do you need copies of the posts that mention 'the evils of the USA' to be thrown in as well, or do you see the errors of your ways??!! The next time that you think I have made a mistake, or that I'm simply being an ass, I suggest you think again before you say it!
Or an incredible mistake on your part. Read, read, read. Eric The(ReadingIsFundamental)Hun
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Posted: 11/1/2004 1:39:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Ummmm, no. I really don't think that its the Germans who are trying to stifle this either. I once went to school with a German exchange student. They SATURATE their own children with Holocaust history. They don't ever want it to happen again, and they are doing their best to make sure that noone forgets that it can happen in their own country. If you REALLY want to get pissed off just look at what Japanese children learn about the war. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 1:40:32 AM EDT
[#45]
There is witness testimony from the Nuremburg War Crimes trials that when the Gas Chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz could not keep up with the rate of arrivals young children were thrown alive into the firepits the Nazis were using to dispose of the bodies. This is historical fact… both survivors and guards made statements. "At Auschwitz there were eight crematories but, as from 1944, these proved insufficient. The SS had large pits dug by the internees, where they put branches, sprinkled with gasoline, which they set on fire. Then they threw the corpses into the pits. From our block we could see after about three-quarters of an hour or an hour after the arrival of a convoy, large flames coming from the crematory, and the sky was lighted up by the burning pits. One night we were awakened by terrifying cries. And we discovered, on the following day, from the men working in the Sonderkommando - the "Gas Kommando" - that on the preceding day, the gas supply having run out, they had thrown the children into the furnaces alive." www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/vaillanttest.html Andy |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 1:54:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Your huge scientific sampling of one, from years ago, has no bearing as to whether or not the current textbook in question says what it says. Try again. Also, more than one of us have made the comparison to the Japanese as well. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 2:01:13 AM EDT
[#47]
The people who did those horrible acts were all killed and /or brought to justice . I think the Democrats and anti-gunners in this country are the ones who need a history lesson ! WE DON'T GET ON TRAINS AT GUNPOINT IN THIS COUNTRY .
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Posted: 11/1/2004 2:02:18 AM EDT
[#48]
We expected to die outright. less then 5 miles from a strategic airforce base. Our school drills for an incomming nuke was to go out to the playground so it would be quick. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 2:43:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Lets not forget those in poland who were rounded up into barns and torched in mass. |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 2:44:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Are you serious? This makes no sense. You would have cooked from the flash and lived burnt until the radiation killed you at that range. Maybe if it was a huge nuke, or it landed closer would the blast kill or injure you. In any case thank the lord it never happened. |
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