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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:38:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone out there thinks that smoking isn't hazardous to your health.Quoted: While I tend to believe their advice in purely medical areas I still treat it with a note of caution. They do have an agenda and one must make sure that it is not coloring what they are telling you. Let us not forget that the AMA is the same group that attributes gun ownership to an increased risk lifestyle."Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit.... Is it guaranteed to cause cancer? Obviously, no. Does it increase your risk? I'm sure it does. Do I still choose to smoke? Yeah. But I also choose to never smoke around my children or other family members who aren't smokers. Just like I wouldn't go popping off rounds in their general direction. I don't personally know enough about the subject to form my own informed opinion. I do think that this is something that the AMA would know about and that what they say is most likely right. However, I do urge caution. One should never simply believe what you're told, especially by an organization with and agenda or an organization that receives public funding. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:39:41 AM EDT
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"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit.... While I tend to believe their advice in purely medical areas I still treat it with a note of caution. They do have an agenda and one must make sure that it is not coloring what they are telling you. Let us not forget that the AMA is the same group that attributes gun ownership to an increased risk lifestyle. I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone out there thinks that smoking isn't hazardous to your health. Is it guaranteed to cause cancer? Obviously, no. Does it increase your risk? I'm sure it does. Do I still choose to smoke? Yeah. But I also choose to never smoke around my children or other family members who aren't smokers. Just like I wouldn't go popping off rounds in their general direction. If you don't know the difference.....  The difference between idiots and those with some semblance of common sense? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've got that figured out. It's obvious who's who in this thread. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:40:24 AM EDT
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I can remember as a kid, probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school. now he's got bladder cancer. go figure. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure. Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer. cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL did he inhale through his penis or something ? me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way , BTW sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all . If they told you that his cancer is a direct cause of smoking then I would go see better doctors. About half of cancer patients never smoked. Explain that. Alot more than half of skydivers never die from smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed, but some do, and it is a direct result of skydiving. going skydiving increases ones risk of smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed. I do believe that smoking increases the risk of cancer. specifically bladder cancer. I am not going to debate the subject with you any further. Did you really just make that freaking argument? Really? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:41:29 AM EDT
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I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
WHAT THE FUCK? WHY? Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners. I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history. I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns.... Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear. Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted. I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel. Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life. Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve? There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves. Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer. About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you? Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too. At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that. "Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit.... Living is the leading cause of preventable death. Not one person who doesn't smoe has lived forever. You don't have to smoke to get cancer or any other leading cause of death. Sorry, you and them are full of shit. Wow, now that is some hard-core denial. Well, of all things in life I never expected to be called "full of shit" for asserting that smoking causes cancer. I guess I can call it an accomplishment? You know who else is full of shit? All those people who think the earth is round!  And man causes global warming... |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:41:44 AM EDT
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I can remember as a kid, probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school. now he's got bladder cancer. go figure. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure. Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer. cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL did he inhale through his penis or something ? me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way , BTW sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all . If they told you that his cancer is a direct cause of smoking then I would go see better doctors. About half of cancer patients never smoked. Explain that. Alot more than half of skydivers never die from smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed, but some do, and it is a direct result of skydiving. going skydiving increases ones risk of smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed. I do believe that smoking increases the risk of cancer. specifically bladder cancer. I am not going to debate the subject with you any further. Did you really just make that freaking argument? Really? Did you really just make that freaking statement? Really? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:42:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it. So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it? His doctor told him, who told me. I explained the mechanism above, as it was explained to me. I'd find him another doctor, seriously. He is a grown man and can decide for himself if he needs another doctor. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:42:56 AM EDT
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You've chosen the dumbest possible analogy. If you want to put it on the same plane, you'd have to suggest that it would be OK for people to randomly fire guns anywhere they wanted to. I mean, hey, why not walk into the airport and dump a couple mags. What's the worst that could happen? You certainly wouldn't want to ban that just cause it's loud. Fuck, it's not even dangerous if you just aim at the ceiling. Pot meet kettle. I didn't advocate blasting rounds into crowds bub. That's odd. I just went back and read what I wrote. Surprisingly, I found that I never said you did. You pretended smoking and blasting rounds into a crowd is the same thing. Talk about demagoguery! |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:43:23 AM EDT
[#8]
I requested a lock of this thread.
I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:44:11 AM EDT
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You've chosen the dumbest possible analogy. If you want to put it on the same plane, you'd have to suggest that it would be OK for people to randomly fire guns anywhere they wanted to. I mean, hey, why not walk into the airport and dump a couple mags. What's the worst that could happen? You certainly wouldn't want to ban that just cause it's loud. Fuck, it's not even dangerous if you just aim at the ceiling. Pot meet kettle. I didn't advocate blasting rounds into crowds bub. That's odd. I just went back and read what I wrote. Surprisingly, I found that I never said you did. You pretended smoking and blasting rounds into a crowd is the same thing. Talk about demagoguery! Wow. You really have a problem comprehending even simple written English, don't you? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:44:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. This thread did go down hill fast.  |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:45:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can remember as a kid, probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school. now he's got bladder cancer. go figure. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure. Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer. cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL did he inhale through his penis or something ? me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way , BTW sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all . If they told you that his cancer is a direct cause of smoking then I would go see better doctors. About half of cancer patients never smoked. Explain that. Alot more than half of skydivers never die from smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed, but some do, and it is a direct result of skydiving. going skydiving increases ones risk of smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed. I do believe that smoking increases the risk of cancer. specifically bladder cancer. I am not going to debate the subject with you any further. Did you really just make that freaking argument? Really? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:46:06 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. Someone is hitting the bottle because you can't explain why people get cancer who never smoked ever? Someone is hitting the bottle because you think smoking in an airport is the same as blasting rounds into a crowd? Yeah, someone is hitting the bottle alright and advocating fascism. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:47:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. This thread did go down hill fast. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:49:14 AM EDT
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Alot more than half of skydivers never die from smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed, but some do, and it is a direct result of skydiving. going skydiving increases ones risk of smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed.
Living, which always results in death is not analogous to something voluntary like skydiving, which does not always result in death. You can smoke or not smoke and still die from cancer, heart failure, etc... |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:49:29 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. Good call. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:51:50 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. 1. Someone is hitting the bottle because you can't explain why people get cancer who never smoked ever? 2. Someone is hitting the bottle because you think smoking in an airport is the same as blasting rounds into a crowd? 3. Yeah, someone is hitting the bottle alright and advocating fascism. 1. Who said that smoking is the only possible way to get cancer? 2. I didn't say it was the same. You did. 3. Who's advocating fascism? You? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:52:17 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. This thread did go down hill fast.
Hawken, it is not a problem and I would be sensitive about the subject given your circumstances now as well. Once again, prayers sent and spend as much time with your dad as possible. Make sure you say the things you always wanted to say. Leave no regrets and hopefully whe he makes it through this you guys will be closer. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:52:26 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. Good call. I should heed my advice and stop posting before I'm the one that gets whacked.
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:53:38 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. This thread did go down hill fast.
I'd hate to see you banned or locked for calling it like it is. Don't feel responsible. You're not the one that came in here with whacked out bullshit. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 12:54:18 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. 1. Someone is hitting the bottle because you can't explain why people get cancer who never smoked ever? 2. Someone is hitting the bottle because you think smoking in an airport is the same as blasting rounds into a crowd? 3. Yeah, someone is hitting the bottle alright and advocating fascism. 1. Who said that smoking is the only possible way to get cancer? 2. I didn't say it was the same. You did. 3. Who's advocating fascism? You? 1.Smoking is not a sure way to get cancer. 2. I sure as hell never compared smoking to basting off rounds in a crowd, Nice try. Smoking in an airport is just smoking in an airport-not mass fucking murder-cripes! You said this: Do I still choose to smoke? Yeah. But I also choose to never smoke around my children or other family members who aren't smokers. Just like I wouldn't go popping off rounds in their general direction.
3. I'm not advocating taking away more basic freedoms- you are. I want the government to leave all of us the hell alone. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:00:20 AM EDT
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I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. This thread did go down hill fast.
I'd hate to see you banned or locked for calling it like it is. Don't feel responsible. You're not the one that came in here with whacked out bullshit. Nope, you were: I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
In other words: Thank God the nanny state has saved us all by advocating more limits on freedom. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:09:18 AM EDT
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Actually, smoking is the no. one cause of bladder cancer.
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I can remember as a kid, probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school. now he's got bladder cancer. go figure. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure. Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer. cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL did he inhale through his penis or something ? me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way , BTW sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all . |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:12:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Living is the No.1 cause of bladder cancer.
Those who smoke and those who don't smoke get it. Eating is also a cause of bladder cancer because everyone who does it gets it. I bet over fifty percent eat mushrooms, so that must also be a leading cause. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:13:58 AM EDT
[#24]
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His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.
So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it? My doctor told me the same thing, that the leading cause of "my" bladder cancer, was "my" smoking. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:15:14 AM EDT
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His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.
So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it? My doctor told me the same thing, that the leading cause of "my" bladder cancer, was "my" smoking. Based on what? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:16:07 AM EDT
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His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.
So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it? My doctor told me the same thing, that the leading cause of "my" bladder cancer, was "my" smoking. What does he tell those who never smoked? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:17:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Sorry guys but your arguments would only work if only those who smoke got cancer. That is not the damn case. How hard is this to understand?
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:17:52 AM EDT
[#28]
There shouldn't be laws telling me where I can and can't smoke. If I can't smoke in an establishment, I won't. Post a sign, and we're golden.
If I go into a bar, and I can't smoke, I won't go there anymore. I'll find a bar where I can smoke (Thank you VFW!), and you'll lose my money. Doesn't matter to me really. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:19:45 AM EDT
[#29]
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There shouldn't be laws telling me where I can and can't smoke. If I can't smoke in an establishment, I won't. Post a sign, and we're golden. If I go into a bar, and I can't smoke, I won't go there anymore. I'll find a bar where I can smoke (Thank you VFW!), and you'll lose my money. Doesn't matter to me really. Yup. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:28:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: There shouldn't be laws telling me where I can and can't smoke. If I can't smoke in an establishment, I won't. Post a sign, and we're golden. If I go into a bar, and I can't smoke, I won't go there anymore. I'll find a bar where I can smoke (Thank you VFW!), and you'll lose my money. Doesn't matter to me really. Yup. We can both agree on that. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:29:06 AM EDT
[#31]
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It's called increasing your odds. That's not to say that everyone who smokes is guaranteed to get cancer, and it also doesn't mean that if you don't smoke, you won't get it, but it definitely increases your odds of getting bladder cancer by smoking. I talked to a lot of doctors and did some research of my own and the concensus is, among the "experts", smoking causes (increases your odds) of getting bladder cancer.
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His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.
So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it? My doctor told me the same thing, that the leading cause of "my" bladder cancer, was "my" smoking. What does he tell those who never smoked? |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:32:47 AM EDT
[#32]
This thread was a train wreck, but it made for an entertaining read at least.
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:34:53 AM EDT
[#33]
but it definitely increases your odds of getting bladder cancer by smoking.
Show me the numbers of non-smokers and smokers. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:38:07 AM EDT
[#34]
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There shouldn't be laws telling me where I can and can't smoke. If I can't smoke in an establishment, I won't. Post a sign, and we're golden. If I go into a bar, and I can't smoke, I won't go there anymore. I'll find a bar where I can smoke (Thank you VFW!), and you'll lose my money. Doesn't matter to me really. Yup. Agreed. And (last I knew) that's the case here in Maine .....you can still smoke in private clubs (VFW , Elks, Eagles , etc) In Illinois (big surprise ) , and Im sure other states, you cant even do that.
I think they should have never started banning smoking in bars , leaving it to the owners to decide . Maybe instead , just making regulations about installing 'Smoke Eaters' which do not eliminate the risk , but greatly reduce it . I liked the way Florida had their laws about 6-8 years ago : If your establishment was primarily a restaurant (Applebees, Chilis, Hooters, etc) no smoking indoors .....if it was a bar with the majority of sales were with liquor , it was up to the bar owners. Now there's states where you cant even smoke outside the bar on a patio . That's fucking bullshit . 
When I was working in Virginia last fall , I noticed there were still some restaurants that had smoking sections.........yet the Applebees was non smoking 
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:42:33 AM EDT
[#35]
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but it definitely increases your odds of getting bladder cancer by smoking.
Show me the numbers of non-smokers and smokers. Show me your credentials, that allow you to argue with the experts in the field of medicine. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:48:28 AM EDT
[#36]
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but it definitely increases your odds of getting bladder cancer by smoking.
Show me the numbers of non-smokers and smokers. Show me your credentials, that allow you to argue with the experts in the field of medicine. Remember it was the so-called experts that sold the world on the global warming bullshit.
Sorry ..........I'll belive the bladder cancer from smoking before I'll buy into the "About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked." and "..exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. " claims. I'll need to see the links to the studies on that .
Till then........Im calling 
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:50:00 AM EDT
[#37]
'Passive smoking'…
A classic non issue siezed upon by the control nazis |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:51:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Not only are smokers not allowed to smoke in buildings in a lot of states, they seem to be looked at as freaks even when outside. Do I miss sitting in a smoke filled waiting room at a hospital? No. What pisses me off is the fact that if I want to open bar and I inform the public and the people that work for me that there will be smoking in the place, then who the fuck is the government to say it can not happen.
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Posted: 3/8/2010 1:52:45 AM EDT
[#39]
IM LAUGHING MY FUCKING ASS OFF !!!!!
I just googled "THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH"........and guess what I found at the top of the selections ??? ––––––––-> ** DOCTORS ** <––––––––-  
About halfway down the first page is :CAUSES OF DEATH (1) Diseases of the heart heart attack (mainly) 28.5% (2) Malignant neoplasms cancer 22.8% (3) Cerebrovascular disease stroke 6.7% (4) Chronic lower respiratory disease emphysema, chronic bronchitis 5.1% (5) Unintentional injuries accidents 4.4% (6) Diabetes mellitus diabetes 3.0% (7) Influenza and pneumonia flu & pneumonia 2.7% (8) Alzheimer's Disease Alzheimer's senility 2.4% (9) Nephritis and Nephrosis kidney disease 1.7% (10) Septicemia systemic infection 1.4% (11) Intentional self-harm suicide 1.3% (12) Chronic Liver/Cirrhosis liver disease 1.1% (13) Essential Hypertension high blood pressure 0.8% (14) Assault homicide 0.7% (15) All other causes 17.4% This sounds a little more believable ...........and Im sure that smoking can be attributed to many of these , but NOT the SOLE CONTRIBUTOR . |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:00:36 AM EDT
[#40]
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I can remember as a kid, probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school. now he's got bladder cancer. go figure. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure. Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer. cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL did he inhale through his penis or something ? me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way , BTW sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all . They aren't connected anatomically, however, smoking definitely increases the incidence of bladder cancer...... |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:04:33 AM EDT
[#41]
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I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore.... WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?
Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners. I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history. Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear. Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted. I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel. Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life. Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve? There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves. I have no dog in this fight but I must point out that there are two sides to that coin. If you don't like being around smoke then you can decide to go somewhere else. Forcing someone else to change their behavior is not freedom and is certainly not the only solution. Many times you can't avoid the smoke, especially the lousy idiots that smoke right in-front of the entrance to a business. Smokers excess smoke is carcinogenic and while they're free to smoke, they are not free to expose me to their crap. Your freedom does not extend to exposing me to potentially toxic materials anymore than I can pull out a handgun whenever the hell I feel like it. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:07:50 AM EDT
[#42]
This was the first 'hit' on ACTUAL CAUSES OF PREVENTABLE DEATH *link*
Actual Causes of Death The leading causes of death in 2000 from behavioral causes with the number and percentages of deaths were as follows: * Tobacco accounting for 435,000 deaths or 18.1% of total deaths in the US. * Poor diet and physical inactivity accounting for 365,000 deaths or 15.2% of total deaths in the US. These are the corrected values from the often cited originally published and later corrected values of 400,000 and 16.6%. * Alcohol consumption accounting for 85,000 deaths or 3.5% of the total deaths in the US. * Microbial agents accounting for 75,000 or 3.1% of the total deaths in the US. * Toxic agents accounting for 55,000 or 2.3% of the total deaths in the US. * Motor vehicle crashes accounting for 43,000 or 1.8% of the total deaths in the US. * Incidents involving firearms accounting for 29,000 or 1.2% of the total deaths in the US. * Sexual behaviors accounting for 20,000 or 0.8% of the total deaths in the US. * Illicit use of drugs accounting for 17,000 or 0.7% of the total deaths in the US. AND THIS WAS THE FIFTH ONE DOWN ON GOOGLE FOR THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF PREVENTABLE DEATH Guess what THAT one said???
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:08:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Many times you can't avoid the smoke, especially the lousy idiots that smoke right in-front of the entrance to a business. Smokers excess smoke is carcinogenic and while they're free to smoke, they are not free to expose me to their shit. Your freedom does not extend to exposing me to potentially toxic materials anymore than I can pull out a handgun whenever the hell I feel like it. Quoted: I have no dog in this fight but I must point out that there are two sides to that coin.Quoted: I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore.... WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners. I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history. Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear. Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted. I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel. Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life. Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve? There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves. If you don't like being around smoke then you can decide to go somewhere else. Forcing someone else to change their behavior is not freedom and is certainly not the only solution. I think you missed the point there. They have as much right to be where they are as you do. If you consider what they are doing to be harmful to you then you could decide to go somewhere else. If I were at a range with bunch of people handling their weapons unsafely I would JUST LEAVE! |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:20:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I think you missed the point there. They have as much right to be where they are as you do. If you consider what they are doing to be harmful to you then you could decide to go somewhere else. If I were at a range with bunch of people handling their weapons unsafely I would JUST LEAVE! Bad comparison man..........no one has a right to be at a range , open to the public , handling firearms unsafely . Now if its a PRIVATE range ........then thats a different story ....to a point. If someone was harmed due to another mis handling a weapon , private or not , they can be held liable ........and rightly so in my opinion. Now that same line of thought could be taken to say that the folks smoking at a private club (VFW) could be held liable for the damage done by second-hand smoke .
But in that same line of thinking , one might say it's as stupid as suing a public range for your loss of hearing because you didnt want to wear ear-plugs . Crazy huh?
It all goes back to being realistic and using common sense.........which as is widely known, isnt that common anymore. So it's back to the lawyer-friendly nanny state tactics to eliminate the greed of sue-happy slags and their ambulance chasing lawyers
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:20:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer. About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you? And half of the people who get shot don't die, so what does that tell you? Not a damn thing.......... And I'm going to call B.S. on the "smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer." This is a well documented phenomenon. Are you going to tell me next that smoking doesn't cause emphysema/COPD just because only 25% of smokers develop it? Smoking causes cancer and is currently being blamed for anywhere between 30-50% of ALL cancer deaths in the western world. While the evidence for second hand smoke is thinner, it is slowly coming out how bad it really is, and this recent meta-analysis of the current state of data is very very compelling. And throw in the classic JAMA article, and if you don't believe it, well tough shit cause the medical community at large (at least those who actually take the time to read the literature) disagree with you. we're even starting to see evidence of "third-hand" smoke exposure also is very likely to give heaping doses of carcinogenic materials to people around it. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:22:39 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that. The pleural of anecdote does not equal data......... |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:24:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Watched Pulp Fiction the other day for the heck of it. Damn near all the characters smoke and they do it everywhere in LA. Houses, cars, restaurants, in people's houses they don't even know.
Now if you light up in public in CA and it's not the right place people will freak out. |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:24:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Comparing that to banning guns? I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient. That makes sense. "Public" buildings should be regulated by the government as they belong to all. Private buildings should be regulated by the owner and the free market will sort things out as it always does. [/quote] If we didn't end up paying for all the expensive medical care later for the smokers, I might agree, but at this time the government and the tax-paying schmucks like myself have a vested interest in making sure idiots don't smoke and then later cost me money to pay for their care. And if this crap keeps up, they're going to start banning good food and being a fat-ass too...... |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:29:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
................ And if this crap keeps up, they're going to start banning good food and being a fat-ass too...... Its already begun . But if its good for the goose ............. 
Look folks , smokers are a minority . Thats why they're able to pass these ridiculous ordinances and laws. But it's too late for us smokers , now the nazis start going after trans-fats and cholesterol ......and NOW you'll see people bitch . It all goes back to personal freedom . Admit it . |
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Posted: 3/8/2010 2:30:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I requested a lock of this thread. I think someone has been hitting the bottle tonight. At least I hope that's the excuse. Don't want to see any bans as the result of this. Someone is hitting the bottle because you can't explain why people get cancer who never smoked ever? Someone is hitting the bottle because you think smoking in an airport is the same as blasting rounds into a crowd? Yeah, someone is hitting the bottle alright and advocating fascism. You seriously want an all encompassing genetic/physiologic explanation of why people get cancer even when they don't smoke? you do realize that there are hundreds of different cancers with hundreds of different causes/risks, and just because 1 of them isn't related to smoking doesn't invalidate the data that smoking causes cancer...... |
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