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Posted: 6/8/2009 3:18:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Only for violent offenders.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 3:20:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
If a man is free, then he is free. Thank you sir. Some people just dont get it...... |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 3:20:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Violent felonies.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 3:23:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Violent felonies or felonies involving a firearm/other weapon should permanently lose rights. You commit a felony with a weapon it proves you can't be trusted with one.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 3:47:58 PM EDT
[#5]
My thoughts on the subject.............
.......(IF, it were done may way) I'm not afraid to see things CHANGE with how FELONS are treated (in the interest of fairness).
I mean.........since a FELON has the FREEDOM OF SPEECH and since some FELONS can VOTE. Then, why can't a FELON avail himself to ALL OF HIS RIGHTS (including the 2nd AMMENDENT) after he has paid his debt to society? Not to mention that in some places a FELON can be a, lawyer, politician, doctor, etc...... ______________________________________________ SO, IF I WERE RUNNING THINGS......... Anyone that can VOTE, can avail themselves of ALL of the rights enumerated in the Constitution. Simple. Along that line of thinking...........while in prison for a FELONY.........you don't get a VOTE. All FELONY convictions must be FULLY served, before release. And upon release........ALL RIGHTS are restored. Now, I understand, that it may not be possible because of the cost concerns and over crowded prisons. But, stick with me.......read on....... Example: Say a person is convicted of a Burglary. The statute says 1-5 years. Say that the judge sentences the person to 4 years. The person is put in prison. While he is there, he asks for Parole. The Parole Board considers his release. OK, say the Parole Board agrees that parole is a good thing for this prisoner. So, they decide that he can get out after serving at least 1 year and as a condition to the early release, the Parole Board can say that he has to go another 5, 10, 20 years or life (or whatever length) before restoration of his RIGHTS. The prisoner can agree to the conditions or stay in prison. IF he chooses to stay.......fine, stay for the full 4 years. When he is released at the end of his incarceration period, he will be allowed all of his rights. IF he had chosen the "early release" he is on CONDITIONAL PAROLE.........it's a contract. The Parole Board can put into the contract, whatever they need, to accomplish the goal of returning this FELON back into society. Failure to abide by the contract, is reason to go back to prison. So.......that's my idea of fairness. IF, 1-5 years is too little, or too much, for a BURGLARY CONVICTION..........then get the legislature to change the sentence. As for misdemeanor (abuse)........that needs to be trashed. IF the crime of abuse is so bad............then make it a felony. Then for some crimes........there should be a DEATH PENALTY. And, it shouldn't have to take 10 years for the prisoner to wait on death row. There needs to be a "limit." The Supreme Court.......needs to open their eyes to this issue. That's how I would run things. Next time VOTE for ME. Just my .02. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 3:56:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
The potential loss of gun ownership (which is most favorite hobby) keeps me from making poor decisions and ending up in custody. Don't do the crime, if you can't deal with the consequences. Also - make sure you have enough resources to fight most any prolonged legal battle. this - # 1 reason i don't commit felonies (i do my best to avoid the misdemeanors also) - is i like guns, it may be because i am a redneck, or i have a defective pacifist gene, maybe the time in the sandboxes got me screwed up but the fact is i don't commit felonies because i don't want to lose my right to vote, my guns or get pounded in the ass. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Violent ones. Do you have ANY idea how little it takes to have your 2nd Amendment rights stripped from you? 18 USC section 922(g)(1) in its entirety: It shall be unlawful for any person -
Punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year. You don't have to be sentenced to more than one year, the penalty just needs to be possible.
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; (2) who is a fugitive from justice; (3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); (4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution; (5) who, being an alien - (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26))); (6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship; (8) who is subject to a court order that - (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate; (B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and (C) (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or (9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce. It's gotten to the point that "a term exceeding one year" is pretty damned common now for just about anything. Funny how the Fed bastardizes the 10th amendment to do what it wants. This whole section is predicated on the Commerce Clause. Unbelievable. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:01:05 PM EDT
[#8]
No.
Maybe... only if the felony was shooting somebody. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:07:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Prison Guard: "Bridges, you Carlin boys...don't forget your tickets back here to my little hotel.
And don't worry––they ain't loaded." |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:09:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it.
I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. I'll never have to worry about losing my guns to a felony conviction. But then again Im not scum bag or an idiot. 
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:20:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. Yeah, this about sums up what I feel. If you don't want to do the time... Don't commit the crime. It is that simple. And quoting that importing orchid flower seeds is a felony is idiotic. Don't import illegal orchid flower seeds, then... If you think you are going to get caught, and you like to own guns. Don't be a retard. It is that simple. If you are living life on the edge, and are constantly worried that your daily activities might be construed as being felonious... May I suggest a change in your lifestyle choices... If you really like guns... It is called punishment for a reason... There is "punishment" affixed to the crime... And the punishment is the motivator (should be the motivator) to people choosing to do the right thing. Yeah, if you really, really like guns... Don't break the law. It is pretty simple, really. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:21:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. I'll never have to worry about losing my guns to a felony conviction. But then again Im not scum bag or an idiot. That attitude may work back when felonies were actually felonious. Now practically anything is a felony. http://www.dumblaws.com/law/938 "Up to a felony charge can be levied for promoting the use of, or owning more than six dildos." |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:22:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. I'll never have to worry about losing my guns to a felony conviction. But then again Im not scum bag or an idiot. Untill the government wants to make you a felon....... you smug bastard. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:24:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Just my humble opinion, but if you cannot be responsible enough to not commit a felony I don't see how you can be responsible enough to own a firearm. But you can petition to get you're rights back if you prove you are a responsible citzen, which is the type of person I believe we all want to own firearms.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:25:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Nope, unless they have violent past. Some felonies are not violent. Even European gun laws allow those with white collar felonies to defend themselves. Where did we go so wrong??
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:25:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. I'll never have to worry about losing my guns to a felony conviction. But then again Im not scum bag or an idiot. Untill the government wants to make you a felon....... you smug bastard. Think.........Ted Kennedy...........he killed that poor girl........IS HE A FELON? And...... Anyway, he can afford to have someone else to "guard and protect him"..........so, (shaking head side to side) whatever. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:26:19 PM EDT
[#17]
FYI there are 2 year State misdemeanors that do NOT disqualify you to gun ownership. It's on the exceptions on the 4473 as long as it's not domestic abuse.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:28:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
FYI there are 2 year State misdemeanors that do NOT disqualify you to gun ownership. It's on the exceptions on the 4473 as long as it's not domestic abuse. Exactly. There is a "loophole." By definition. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:32:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: You folks are aware that a "felony" conviction is not the issue, yes? Your right is lost if you are convicted of a crime for which you could have been sentanced to more than 1 year in prison. This also applies to ANY conviction, including foreign court. For example, our two journalists in N. Korea just lost their RKBA. ETA, beat me to it. SCOTUS ruled recently foreign convictions do not count. And it is not any conviction either, certain non-violent felonies are exempted. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:33:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. I'll never have to worry about losing my guns to a felony conviction. But then again Im not scum bag or an idiot. Untill the government wants to make you a felon....... you smug bastard. 
Will never happen, not in a million years. I will never lose my gun rights to a felony conviction. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:34:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. Yeah, this about sums up what I feel. If you don't want to do the time... Don't commit the crime. It is that simple. And quoting that importing orchid flower seeds is a felony is idiotic. Don't import illegal orchid flower seeds, then... If you think you are going to get caught, and you like to own guns. Don'd be a retard. It is that simple. If you are living life on the edge, and are constantly worried that your daily activities might be construed as being felonious... May I suggest a change in your lifestyle choices... If you really like guns... It is called punishment for a reason... There is "punishment" affixed to the crime... And the punishment is the motivator (should be the motivator) to people choosing to do the right thing. Yeah, if you really, really like guns... Don't break the law. It is pretty simple, really. + 1 |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:36:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. I'll never have to worry about losing my guns to a felony conviction. But then again Im not scum bag or an idiot. Untill the government wants to make you a felon....... you smug bastard. Zackly.....Thank you sir.....When every thing is a crime that merit the forfeiture of RKBA you WILL worrry about your RKBA. Wake up -SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED! Sorry about the yelling 
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:38:06 PM EDT
[#23]
my friend grabbed his wife's arms because she was hitting him. He then lost his rights to have a gun. Dont get it.
Agreed that if we cannot trust someone outside of prison then why are they out of prison?? Also, if you get in a fist fight the police could hit you with a felony depending on the circumstances. Now with all the national security laws, everything is a huge deal. Making the senteces harder is not always the only way to curb crime. Kind of like when we should put those on death row to death today but we dont. The answer lies in the ineffectivness of prison. It does little to reform a hardened criminal but would ruin one of our lives. Lets bring back the ball and chain- Doing time should mean that your time is DONE when you leave where you have repaid your debt to society. Criminals do little to repay society in our current prison system. That is the root problem. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:39:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. Yeah, this about sums up what I feel. If you don't want to do the time... Don't commit the crime. It is that simple. And quoting that importing orchid flower seeds is a felony is idiotic. Don't import illegal orchid flower seeds, then... If you think you are going to get caught, and you like to own guns. Don'd be a retard. It is that simple. If you are living life on the edge, and are constantly worried that your daily activities might be construed as being felonious... May I suggest a change in your lifestyle choices... If you really like guns... It is called punishment for a reason... There is "punishment" affixed to the crime... And the punishment is the motivator (should be the motivator) to people choosing to do the right thing. Yeah, if you really, really like guns... Don't break the law. It is pretty simple, really. + 1 How brainwashed are you people? There are an absolutely insane amount of crimes out there that are felonies. "Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957) |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:39:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I say it depends on the crime. Check fraud and other white collar crimes, no. Violent offenders, yes. This |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
The only thing that should disqualify one from gun ownership in a free country is BEING IN JAIL. Period, end of subject. If someone can't be trusted (because of past actions) to own a firearm, put them back in jail. This. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:43:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. Yeah, this about sums up what I feel. If you don't want to do the time... Don't commit the crime. It is that simple. And quoting that importing orchid flower seeds is a felony is idiotic. Don't import illegal orchid flower seeds, then... If you think you are going to get caught, and you like to own guns. Don'd be a retard. It is that simple. If you are living life on the edge, and are constantly worried that your daily activities might be construed as being felonious... May I suggest a change in your lifestyle choices... If you really like guns... It is called punishment for a reason... There is "punishment" affixed to the crime... And the punishment is the motivator (should be the motivator) to people choosing to do the right thing. Yeah, if you really, really like guns... Don't break the law. It is pretty simple, really. + 1 How brainwashed are you people? There are an absolutely insane amount of crimes out there that are felonies. "Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957) Youre right Ive been brain washed. Too much time in black choppers at area 51 I guess. I now stand corrected, violent felons deserve to own guns.......please You guys have fun dreaming, the law will never change, felons lose and its a good thing. Peace out 
JF |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:44:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I say it depends on the crime. Check fraud and other white collar crimes, no. Violent offenders, yes. This Former violent offender- once released from prison he has paid the debt- if the debt has not been paid then keep him in prison.... |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:51:26 PM EDT
[#29]
I can see both sides of this argument. But i feel the same as the people who said no to violent offenders and Ok for the rest...done the time ect ect...
Maybe they should just have stricter control measures for the other non violent convicted felon, to still give them a chance to prove their...whatever... Random question.... Is it legal for an me (an Aussie  ) to visit the US for a holiday and go shooting? I mean like go to the range with someone and shoot their AR ( ) what if i just went shooting on someones private property...is that against the law?
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:53:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The potential loss of gun ownership (which is most favorite hobby) keeps me from making poor decisions and ending up in custody. Don't do the crime, if you can't deal with the consequences. Also - make sure you have enough resources to fight most any prolonged legal battle. I just hope you have a big bank account, as you can break just about any law and lose your rights. To the OP, once the snetence is done your rights should be restored. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:53:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r1Is it legal for an me (an Aussie ) to visit the US for a holiday and go shooting? I mean like go to the range with someone and shoot their AR () what if i just went shooting on someones private property...is that against the law?(R1) May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States? Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States. There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:
Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien CANNOT purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) AND (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:00:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Felony = loss of gun ownership and I agree with it. I dont feel sorry for people who are too stupid to not commit crimes. Yeah, this about sums up what I feel. If you don't want to do the time... Don't commit the crime. It is that simple. And quoting that importing orchid flower seeds is a felony is idiotic. Don't import illegal orchid flower seeds, then... If you think you are going to get caught, and you like to own guns. Don'd be a retard. It is that simple. If you are living life on the edge, and are constantly worried that your daily activities might be construed as being felonious... May I suggest a change in your lifestyle choices... If you really like guns... It is called punishment for a reason... There is "punishment" affixed to the crime... And the punishment is the motivator (should be the motivator) to people choosing to do the right thing. Yeah, if you really, really like guns... Don't break the law. It is pretty simple, really. + 1 How brainwashed are you people? There are an absolutely insane amount of crimes out there that are felonies. "Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957) Youre right Ive been brain washed. Too much time in black choppers at area 51 I guess. I now stand corrected, violent felons deserve to own guns.......please You guys have fun dreaming, the law will never change, felons lose and its a good thing. Peace out
JF Glad you're completely OK with such horrible crimes as http://www.dumblaws.com/law/948 removing people's ability to defend themselves in an effective manner. I'm sure you'll be completely happy with this right up until you become a felon. How about critically thinking about the topic at hand. If you think making a law preventing violent felons from getting guns you're the one dreaming. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:01:31 PM EDT
[#33]
bugger
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:12:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
The only thing that should disqualify one from gun ownership in a free country is BEING IN JAIL. Period, end of subject. If someone can't be trusted (because of past actions) to own a firearm, put them back in jail. +87 |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:18:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Nope. Violent criminals (murderers/rapists/child molesters) should be put down (executed) and non-violent criminals should serve their time then regain all their freedoms. THIS! |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:19:44 PM EDT
[#36]
I know a former co-worker was shopping with his girlfriend and she stole some electronics and he was arrested with her as an accomplice just for being with her in the store. Instant felony. He did have a crappy lawyer.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:23:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Do the time, get released, rights restored, period. If the person is too dangerous to own a firearm then why are they releasing the person in the first place?
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:23:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
The only thing that should disqualify one from gun ownership in a free country is BEING IN JAIL. Period, end of subject. If someone can't be trusted (because of past actions) to own a firearm, put them back in jail. +1 |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:29:10 PM EDT
[#39]
This also applies to ANY conviction, including foreign court.
Per US v. Gary Sherwood Small, foreign convictions are not disqualifiers. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:37:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only thing that should disqualify one from gun ownership in a free country is BEING IN JAIL. Period, end of subject. If someone can't be trusted (because of past actions) to own a firearm, put them back in jail. +1 +88 uuuuhh er I mean +87 |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:37:25 PM EDT
[#41]
No.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:38:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Under an actual justice system, no. Under our legal system, yes.
ETA: In a justice system, the guilty are punished appropriately with hard labor or death depending on the crime. Prisons don't have air conditioners, cable TV, weight rooms, etc. in a justice system. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:41:12 PM EDT
[#43]
NO
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:51:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Do the time, get released, rights restored, period. If the person is too dangerous to own a firearm then why are they releasing the person in the first place? Do you think we have enough money and prison space for that idea to float? |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 6:00:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Only for violent offenders. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 6:02:01 PM EDT
[#46]
nope
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Posted: 6/8/2009 6:02:08 PM EDT
[#47]
How long should you lock up an armed robber before y'all decide it's okay to let him out and let him have a gun again?
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Posted: 6/8/2009 6:06:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
I say it depends on the crime. Check fraud and other white collar crimes, no. Violent offenders, yes. This. Violent and sexual offenders, no. White collar crimes yes. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 6:10:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
i think if if the felony isn't a violence crime i would say yes English Mother Fucker....... Do you speak it? What the hell did you say? |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 6:11:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do the time, get released, rights restored, period. If the person is too dangerous to own a firearm then why are they releasing the person in the first place? Do you think we have enough money and prison space for that idea to float? If we don't have enough money to keep them in prison, then we need to re-look how we spend money on prisons. Air Conditioning? Not needed, TV? not needed. a varied meal set? not needed (give em the basic food groups the cheapest way possible) For other than super max type prisons, put them out in the Mojave or other desolate parts of the country, less walls and wire, more guns for the guards, if you run, they shoot. Pretty simple. As to the OP, Your eithier Free or your not. If your released (and not on probabtion) than your rights should be restored in full. To those who say its a pipe dream, not that many years ago people said it was a pipe dream that a black man and a white man would share the same bathroom. The also said we'd never fly, never walk on the moon, If their is a will there is a way, if a big enough segment of the population wants a law changed it will happen, just because you think its nuts doesn't mean its not possible. |
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