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Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:24:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Once out the front door and running away, they become fleeing suspects. No, you cannot shoot them, clear cut case against the law since they no longer represent a threat to you. However, in FL one can shoot them in the back inside the house if they make that one little mistake and run towards the back (preferably bedroom area) of the house, since they still represent a threat to you or your family.

Wrong!!!!   There is case law that says you can shoot a fleeing suspect if you reasonably believe they represent a harm to someone else if they get away.  Do you really think this guy will stop committing home invasion robberies just because he barely got away?  I don't think so.  Hope you can live with yourself after you let him go and he kills someone next time he does it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:41:47 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the target always has to be identified...



It has been.  It's that person outside my bedroom door that didn't leave when I told him to.
.... I heard breaking in.
Larry





  Actually, I don't think there'd be time to start rounding up the family and critters to go hide, so I'd either wait where I was or try to move towards the threat. (Depending on where I was and where the threat was). If someone had cornered me I'd have no problem shooting them through whatever they were behind.
 Some of you changed the scenario before answering, with things like quietly sneaking in with a key. My mother in law has a key, (she's the only one outside the house who does), and when she uses that key you can never "hear someone breaking into your home." Keys turn tumblers, but they don't make windows shatter or door frames splinter by doing so. I also know that she wouldn't break in, even if she lost the key.  
 Being drunk also seems to be universal excuse for some people. It's used for rape, vehicular homicide, and lots of other things. To me it doesn't justify any of these things. Most of us on here preach taking responsibility for our actions, and I don't believe drinking more than you can handle relieves you of that responsibility.  
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:44:20 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't have enough moolah banked to shoot thru doors.



+1



Add me to that list.


Go ahead and put me on it !
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:50:25 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:

 Some of you changed the scenario before answering, with things like quietly sneaking in with a key. My mother in law has a key, (she's the only one outside the house who does), and when she uses that key you can never "hear someone breaking into your home." Keys turn tumblers, but they don't make windows shatter or door frames splinter by doing so. I also know that she wouldn't break in, even if she lost the key.    



My mother in law has a key.  Whenever she uses it, she hollers once, opens the door and hollers again, then comes in calling for people by name.
Most people won't even come in unless they have contacted us, and even then they proceed cautiously.  And they don't think I'm crazy, they just know I am usually prepared.

It's just polite, you know?

ETA:

I realize your point was that a break-in is often quite obviously not family.  
If I heard someone really breaking in, I wouldn't have time to round up the kids, but only to interpose myself between the breakin and the sleeping quarters.  And yes, I'm killing anything through that wall/door/window; without any attempt to wait for ID.  If it's a stacked "dynamic entry team" then I suppose the second or third guy will take me out.  The odds are far better that a criminal will kill me for waiting than that I will run into a LEO team breaking into my house.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:25:44 PM EDT
[#5]
An actual case a few years ago in Montgomery County, A suburban area near Philadelphia, PA.
Guy wakes up hearing banging on the outside door.  Arms himself, and opens door.  Naked man enters residence.  Homeowner backs up yelling.  Opens fire.  Wounded intruder exits house, homeowner follows out into back yard and follows through with 2 to the head as intruder is collapsed on the ground.  Later discovered, intruder is drunk, he habitually walked into the backyard of the condos to urinate at night.   He is the neighbors son, (36 or so If I remember correctly) he was not known by the homeowner.  Trial underway, homeowner has had heart attack, is in poor health, was Veitnam vet, and clames he was taught 2 to the head in training.  Trial result.  Guilty - bad shoot.  It was the following outside and the 2 to the head that made the decision to charge.  If I remember he got 20 or so years.  I don't know what that will actually be.

Lessons learned: use your gun efficiently.  This man used a 9mm in an inaccurate manner.
                             don't follow outside your residence.  See above and make sure you don't need to.

The intruder was also shot in the back as he was leaving the residence, but that was not the stated reason for charging him.  The two bullets were removed from the ground under the intruder's head for use at trial.  This was a bad thing for the shooter.

Lumper
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:33:17 PM EDT
[#6]
I think this situation underscores the importance of having strong security measures.  By this, I mean a fence (or wall) with a gate around your property, and strong doors and windows, all with locks.  If your property is difficult to break into, it lowers the risk of someone being in your home without your consent, and hence the risk of you shooting someone.

I'd like to own a house that had reinforced exterior doors that couldn't be kicked in; it would sort of neutralize the risk of shooting no-knock police officers.

Having said that, I think it's a little scary that some people require unusual procedures to avoid shooting cohabilitators.  This seems a little irresponsible to me, not to mention a bit wacked out...
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:42:19 PM EDT
[#7]
What if it is a family member or somebody you know/are friendly with? What if you left the door unlocked and you didn't hear them knocking?

What if it's a little kid that broke in on a dare?

What if there are a bunch of them and they don't know you are there (you shoot at the first guy and give away your position anyway?

Too many what-if's. Wait for the door to open & get eyes on the target first.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:43:41 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

So, lets say you hear someone breaking into your home.



You see the light under your bedroom door get blocked and hear a foot land just outside the door.


WTF!   Is this a trick question?  Somone breaks into my house and is outside my bedroom door?  Shoot...all day long!!  



So everybody went to bed and left a light on in the hallway?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:52:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Bump fire.......that should scare him away.  Do it with an AK and you shouldnt have to worry about hit'n 'em
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:16:11 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't shoot until I can identify the target.  

I don't enter a house unless I do it lawfully.  

Anytime I enter a home, I announce my self as law enforcement and work my way through the house.  During the time I'm working my way through a house, I'm continually announcing myself.  

If after that someone takes a shot at me, "Game on".  

I hope no one would take a shot without identifying the target.  Unfortunately, family and friends have been shot by people that didn't identify the target.  

I would never shoot through a door unless someone shot through the door at me first.  


_________________  

 

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:49:19 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
Once out the front door and running away, they become fleeing suspects. No, you cannot shoot them, clear cut case against the law since they no longer represent a threat to you. However, in FL one can shoot them in the back inside the house if they make that one little mistake and run towards the back (preferably bedroom area) of the house, since they still represent a threat to you or your family.

Wrong!!!!   There is case law that says you can shoot a fleeing suspect if you reasonably believe they represent a harm to someone else if they get away. Do you really think this guy will stop committing home invasion robberies just because he barely got away?  I don't think so.  Hope you can live with yourself after you let him go and he kills someone next time he does it.



This case law may not be applicable to all states.  There are probably some differences between most states laws on use of deadly force that make stopping a fleeing felon a good shoot.  
and in some states it would be a legal shoot for an LEO and not a civilian.  
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:52:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Shooting a fleeing felon can be a very tricky situation and you had better be able to articulate everything that lead up to that and your reasoning VERY well.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:40:20 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Once out the front door and running away, they become fleeing suspects. No, you cannot shoot them, clear cut case against the law since they no longer represent a threat to you. However, in FL one can shoot them in the back inside the house if they make that one little mistake and run towards the back (preferably bedroom area) of the house, since they still represent a threat to you or your family.

Wrong!!!!   There is case law that says you can shoot a fleeing suspect if you reasonably believe they represent a harm to someone else if they get away. Do you really think this guy will stop committing home invasion robberies just because he barely got away?  I don't think so.  Hope you can live with yourself after you let him go and he kills someone next time he does it.



This case law may not be applicable to all states.  There are probably some differences between most states laws on use of deadly force that make stopping a fleeing felon a good shoot.  
and in some states it would be a legal shoot for an LEO and not a civilian.  



Even if there was a law specifically forbidding it, there is still the issue of finding a jury that will convict. I don't know about anyone else, but in that situation I think I would tend to give the homeowner the benefit of the doubt for a few miles. I think a lot of people would.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:55:51 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Once out the front door and running away, they become fleeing suspects. No, you cannot shoot them, clear cut case against the law since they no longer represent a threat to you. However, in FL one can shoot them in the back inside the house if they make that one little mistake and run towards the back (preferably bedroom area) of the house, since they still represent a threat to you or your family.

Wrong!!!!   There is case law that says you can shoot a fleeing suspect if you reasonably believe they represent a harm to someone else if they get away. Do you really think this guy will stop committing home invasion robberies just because he barely got away?  I don't think so.  Hope you can live with yourself after you let him go and he kills someone next time he does it.



This case law may not be applicable to all states.  There are probably some differences between most states laws on use of deadly force that make stopping a fleeing felon a good shoot.  
and in some states it would be a legal shoot for an LEO and not a civilian.  



Exactly, that is critical, always remember YMMV.  

And, to try to answer charliehorse without wasting space for a separate post.  The only case law I'm aware of was an "apparently" fleeing suspect still inside the house, which was my reference in a following sentence.  I don't do this for a living, so correct me if I'm wrong on the details, but I am not aware of any findings of this nature OUTSIDE the house or curtilage, that is, running down the street.

But, I agree with wolfman, given the circumstances stated, I doubt one would get a conviction, and only a State's Attorney blinded by ambition would push it (again, under circumstances given).  YMMV
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:42:47 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
Unless they shoot throught the door, I announce their impending demise and wait.

If they try to come through that door, after I announce my intention to kill them if they don't leave, then they get one.

But I'm NOT shooting through a door simply because somebody is standing on the other side of it.  Seems to violate a rule aobut weapon safety.



x2.

Get the shotgun, warn them, and when they burst through the door, empty it.
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