[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIGUSA responds. (Page 4 of 8)
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Quoted: Training the P320 to stop going off by itself while holstered? Interesting concept. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZ2Rnb2ZxZXo2bG9ndWhweGJraXJjcTl5NDY2aTl2dHl2aWFsNmpmNCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/oKdjMdWXl9ys8/giphy.gif Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Everyone seems to forget “Glock leg” which was very much a thing years ago. Pepperidge Farm remembers. Training issue Period Training the P320 to stop going off by itself while holstered? Interesting concept. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZ2Rnb2ZxZXo2bG9ndWhweGJraXJjcTl5NDY2aTl2dHl2aWFsNmpmNCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/oKdjMdWXl9ys8/giphy.gif Lol the Glock leg was training issue Sig sucks |
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Quoted: So before you hate on MAC for all the various reasons.. Imagine how much SIG is probably paying him and then wonder to yourself if you would also sell out for vast sums. My integrity can’t be bought. I’ve faced that choice before and decided sleeping at night with a clear conscience is far more valuable. Others might say they sleep at night on a pile of cash but whatever. |
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Quoted: Lol the Glock leg was training issue Sig sucks So are you saying that Sig sucks, but the P320 going off (without pulling the trigger) is an operator error? Or is this just sarcasm and you acknowledge Sig P320's have an internal problem causing uncommanded discharges? |
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Quoted: They’re going to be deploying their “selling ice to eskimos” talent at this point, so all of the above coupled with categorical denials! Sig going on one of the most hated guntubers, they can't stop stepping on their dicks. I guess next Cohen is going to stream kicking a puppy live. WTF. |
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Quoted: So before you hate on MAC for all the various reasons.. Imagine how much SIG is probably paying him and then wonder to yourself if you would also sell out for vast sums. If I ran a business and had a decent YouTube channel. I would not touch SIG with a 10 foot pole. Joe blow working 9-5 to make ends meet. Yeah maybe. |
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Quoted: So before you hate on MAC for all the various reasons.. Imagine how much SIG is probably paying him and then wonder to yourself if you would also sell out for vast sums. Attached File I am pretty much a whore, so yeah. |
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Quoted: So are you saying that Sig sucks, but the P320 going off (without pulling the trigger) is an operator error? Or is this just sarcasm and you acknowledge Sig P320's have an internal problem causing uncommanded discharges? Quoted: Quoted: Lol the Glock leg was training issue Sig sucks So are you saying that Sig sucks, but the P320 going off (without pulling the trigger) is an operator error? Or is this just sarcasm and you acknowledge Sig P320's have an internal problem causing uncommanded discharges? Lol dawg, calm down I was addressing the previous comment about the Glock leg as many sig fans have compared this to You couldn't give me a 320 for fear the gun itself would actually kill me or my family Attached File |
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Liking/making money is one thing. Parroting bullshit that could literally get someone killed because "Oh, that's all hater FUD"? Something entirely different. |
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Quoted: Liking/making money is one thing. Parroting bullshit that could literally get someone killed because "Oh, that's all hater FUD"? Something entirely different. Good point. I don't want anyone hurt, but on the other hand I do like money. Attached File 
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Quoted: Good point. I don't want anyone hurt, but on the other hand I do like money. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/17974/1000023465_jpg-3539369.JPG  |
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Quoted: If its the holsters why aren't m&ps just going off? lots of departments use those with the same types of holsters. Other pistols do fire in holsters, but because we're pretty sure those pistols are mechanically safe we don't see people blaming those on the pistol and are less likely to hear about them. There are very real concerns about the mechanical safety of the P320, so we do see people blaming the pistol. It also seems like it happens a lot more often with P320s, perhaps because they're not mechanically safe This incident involved either a Glock or an M&P. |
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Quoted: Lol dawg, calm down I was addressing the previous comment about the Glock leg as many sig fans have compared this to You couldn't give me a 320 for fear the gun itself would actually kill me or my family https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/80967/1000009804_png-3539361.JPG I'm quite calm....I sold my P320's a few years ago, so I don't have to worry about taking a huge hit trying to offload them. 
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Quoted: I'm quite calm....I sold my P320's a few years ago, so I don't have to worry about taking a huge hit trying to offload them. Quoted: Quoted: Lol dawg, calm down I was addressing the previous comment about the Glock leg as many sig fans have compared this to You couldn't give me a 320 for fear the gun itself would actually kill me or my family https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/80967/1000009804_png-3539361.JPG I'm quite calm....I sold my P320's a few years ago, so I don't have to worry about taking a huge hit trying to offload them. You're a smart man (no sarcasm) At this point a hi point is safer than the 320 |
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Quoted: You're a smart man (no sarcasm) At this point a hi point is safer than the 320 Attached File |
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Quoted: I'm just here for the posting of the Ben Stoeger response video.  Sig fires back |
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Quoted: I hear what you're saying, but it just isn't accurate. I've known people, cops in fact, that shot the effin floor with a Glock, in a holster, and the story is always the same ... "It just went off by itself, like a wizard commanded it from afar with a wand." In reality the example I'm thinking of was keys hanging off a bag. Snuck inside a light bearing holster, boom, and that was like 15+ years ago. All this has happened before, and will happen again. I'm not sure why everyone's so emotionally charged about it like the two sides of Covid, but they are, and both want to gloss over stuff that's important so their side 'wins' ?? I get what your saying, but I would counter with my experience is with a medium size agency that has issued Glocks for 25 years and stuff hanging off and being in a position of getting in holsters is not that common. Keys, pens, screwdrivers/tools and the outside object, not that common as they are not really carried near the holster. Can we find objects to put in the holster (especially the ones for WMLs) to see if we can trip the trigger and get a discharge? Sure. Here's a youtube link to a video for a LAPD Glock discharging in a holster.  LAPD: Skid Row Man Grabbed Officer's Gun Not emotionally invested in this, but with some of the videos out there, I don't want to work with someone that we may be involved in going hands with a suspect with and the gun being struck or jarred in the holster and discharging while one of us may very well have some part of our body being muzzled by a holstered 320. No thanks. Sig knows this could kill the company. |
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Quoted: The only thing that unites the 2A community, is destroying itself. If you think the P320 is unsafe, you're anti-gun.  Attached File |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm just here for the posting of the Ben Stoeger response video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlW5prYEytcAttached File That guys comment wins the internet for today |
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Quoted: Sig will never admit the 320 is defective. They 'd be destroyed by lawsuits and God knows what the Army would do to them Bingo. At some point they will come out with a Gen2 that has a significantly redesigns ("improved") trigger pack, sear, etc. and they will upgrade peoples pistols and the army for cheap or free. |
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Quoted: Bingo. At some point they will come out with a Gen2 that has a significantly redesigns ("improved") trigger pack, sear, etc. and they will upgrade peoples pistols and the army for cheap or free. Not the way the army does things. Thats why the m9 still uses gen 1 locking blocks. And unless there's a dropgate level outcry, they aren’t going do another free upgrade. |
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Quoted: Not the way the army does things. Thats why the m9 still uses gen 1 locking blocks. And unless there's a dropgate level outcry, they aren’t going do another free upgrade. If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. |
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Quoted: If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. Quoted: Quoted: Not the way the army does things. Thats why the m9 still uses gen 1 locking blocks. And unless there's a dropgate level outcry, they aren’t going do another free upgrade. If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. If I remember correctly, that is also standard. The T&E guns go back to the manufacturer for study while the final versions are issued out. The manufacturer can then sell some, keep them or destroy them. That's how actual issued P320s were sold for a short time. |
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Quoted: I love my 2022  Quoted: Quoted: Sig should just bring back the SP2022 until it fixes the 320 issues. I love my 2022 My 2340 had approx 12k down the pipe before I dumped .40. My business partner carried one in .357 Sig. Talked to a number of Nueces County TX Deputies that carried 2340s. It's a solid platform that deserved more development instead of turning a shitty DAO hammer gun into a striker pistol. |
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Quoted: If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. That was a request from the army, iirc. They typically don't accept engineering changes or updates from the factory, which is why the M9 is the exact same gun that was adopted back in 1985, despite multiple locking block and trigger return spring revisions |
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Quoted: If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. Quoted: Quoted: Not the way the army does things. Thats why the m9 still uses gen 1 locking blocks. And unless there's a dropgate level outcry, they aren’t going do another free upgrade. If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. Not to mention that if the army still requires handguns to be carried with an empty chamber, they shouldn't have any problems anyway. |
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Quoted: Not to mention that if the army still requires handguns to be carried with an empty chamber, they shouldn't have any problems anyway. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not the way the army does things. Thats why the m9 still uses gen 1 locking blocks. And unless there's a dropgate level outcry, they aren’t going do another free upgrade. If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. Not to mention that if the army still requires handguns to be carried with an empty chamber, they shouldn't have any problems anyway. Not always. Certain jobs carry with a round in the chamber. |
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I’m still not convinced it’s the 320. Nobody has been able to replicate, or prove otherwise. Lots of supposition. I’ve watched all the YT’s, read all of it. Nobody goes over in detail the holsters. Everybody here cusses the mindless brain dead pieces of shit we see in traffic; who do you think also owns/carries guns? I’m a retired LE/Detective from the Atlanta area, SWAT, Dept Firearms Instructor, and former USAR Small Arms Readiness Group Instructor/Instructor Developer, and former 75th Regiment with a CIB and am currently still on jump status with an active army three star HQ’s in NC. I also stay in regular contact with the newly reconstituted USAR Marksmanship Unit at Ft Knox. Again, lots of whoever’s have picked over the gun; I have only seen a few holsters picked over, and only one who’s admitted in court he screwed up, more or less lied I believe. And yes, Glock Leg is a thing. And yes, all the “free upgrades Glock fielded over the years were fixes to problems and defects, improvements what ever. Flame on, dog pile me, don’t care. I’m still watching, the jury is still out with me, but I’m still carrying Sig. I just haven’t seen the all convincing evidence yet, I’m waiting with an open mind, but I’ve seen a lot of bad gun handling in my life, ask any gun counter guy/gal, and I’ve seen a lot of “500 dollar guns in 10 dollar gunshow holsters”. Oh, and I’ve seen a lot of anti Sig vitriol here, more any other forum discussing the 320, all by folks who themselves do not hold any evidence. Sincerely, 11b4v aka, “watching, but not convinced yet”. |
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Quoted: That was a request from the army, iirc. They typically don't accept engineering changes or updates from the factory, which is why the M9 is the exact same gun that was adopted back in 1985, despite multiple locking block and trigger return spring revisions Quoted: Quoted: If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. That was a request from the army, iirc. They typically don't accept engineering changes or updates from the factory, which is why the M9 is the exact same gun that was adopted back in 1985, despite multiple locking block and trigger return spring revisions The Army does accept engineering changes sometimes; one example is plastic guide rods. They chose not to accept upgraded locking blocks for some stupid reason. If, or maybe it would be better to say when, someone figures out the inputs necessary to make a P320 drop the sear without a trigger pull the Army will require changes, just like when M9 slides started to break. |
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Quoted: I’m still not convinced it’s the 320. Nobody has been able to replicate, or prove otherwise. Lots of supposition. I’ve watched all the YT’s, read all of it. Nobody goes over in detail the holsters. Everybody here cusses the mindless brain dead pieces of shit we see in traffic; who do you think owns/carries guns here? I’m a retired LE/Detective from the Atlanta area, SWAT, Dept Firearms Instructor, and former USAR Small Arms Readiness Group Instructor/Instructor Developer, and former 75th Regiment with a CIB. Again, they’ve/whoever has picked over the gun; I have only seen a few holsters picked over, and only one who’s admitted in court he screwed up, more or less lied. And yes, Glock Leg is a thing. And yes, all the “free upgrades Glock fielded over the years were fixes to problems and defects, improvements what ever. Flame on, dog pile me, don’t care. I’m still watching, the jury is still out, but I’m still carrying Sig. I just haven’t seen the all convincing evidence yet. Holsters involved are ones designed for the 320, and one of the holsters that was caught on video was even sold by sig. If it was truly the holsters fault, we'd see similar amounts of discharges routinely happening with glocks and M&P's, which are the other two most common duty guns out there. Its difficult to replicate because sig has very poor QC, and is infamous for rolling changes. No one can even reverse engineer the TDP because you can't guarantee you have an example that meets it. "All the free upgrades Glock fielded"? All the one of them? |
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Quoted: I’m still not convinced it’s the 320. Nobody has been able to replicate, or prove otherwise. Lots of supposition. I’ve watched all the YT’s, read all of it. Nobody goes over in detail the holsters. Everybody here cusses the mindless brain dead pieces of shit we see in traffic; who do you think owns/carries guns here? I’m a retired LE/Detective from the Atlanta area, SWAT, Dept Firearms Instructor, and former USAR Small Arms Readiness Group Instructor/Instructor Developer, and former 75th Regiment with a CIB. Again, they’ve/whoever has picked over the gun; I have only seen a few holsters picked over, and only one who’s admitted in court he screwed up, more or less lied. And yes, Glock Leg is a thing. And yes, all the “free upgrades Glock fielded over the years were fixes to problems and defects, improvements what ever. Flame on, dog pile me, don’t care. I’m still watching, the jury is still out, but I’m still carrying Sig. I just haven’t seen the all convincing evidence yet. So you admit you will carry a fully cocked gun with no safety? No sane man will carry a fully cocked gun without a safety. Throw in out of spec parts and wear. Its only a matter of time. Good luck. |
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Quoted: So you admit you will carry a fully cocked gun with no safety? No sane man will carry a fully cocked gun without a safety. Throw in out of spec parts and wear. Its only a matter of time. Good luck. Quoted: Quoted: I’m still not convinced it’s the 320. Nobody has been able to replicate, or prove otherwise. Lots of supposition. I’ve watched all the YT’s, read all of it. Nobody goes over in detail the holsters. Everybody here cusses the mindless brain dead pieces of shit we see in traffic; who do you think owns/carries guns here? I’m a retired LE/Detective from the Atlanta area, SWAT, Dept Firearms Instructor, and former USAR Small Arms Readiness Group Instructor/Instructor Developer, and former 75th Regiment with a CIB. Again, they’ve/whoever has picked over the gun; I have only seen a few holsters picked over, and only one who’s admitted in court he screwed up, more or less lied. And yes, Glock Leg is a thing. And yes, all the “free upgrades Glock fielded over the years were fixes to problems and defects, improvements what ever. Flame on, dog pile me, don’t care. I’m still watching, the jury is still out, but I’m still carrying Sig. I just haven’t seen the all convincing evidence yet. So you admit you will carry a fully cocked gun with no safety? No sane man will carry a fully cocked gun without a safety. Throw in out of spec parts and wear. Its only a matter of time. Good luck. Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: I’m still not convinced it’s the 320. Nobody has been able to replicate, or prove otherwise. Lots of supposition. I’ve watched all the YT’s, read all of it. Nobody goes over in detail the holsters. Everybody here cusses the mindless brain dead pieces of shit we see in traffic; who do you think owns/carries guns here? I’m a retired LE/Detective from the Atlanta area, SWAT, Dept Firearms Instructor, and former USAR Small Arms Readiness Group Instructor/Instructor Developer, and former 75th Regiment with a CIB. Again, they’ve/whoever has picked over the gun; I have only seen a few holsters picked over, and only one who’s admitted in court he screwed up, more or less lied. And yes, Glock Leg is a thing. And yes, all the “free upgrades Glock fielded over the years were fixes to problems and defects, improvements what ever. Flame on, dog pile me, don’t care. I’m still watching, the jury is still out, but I’m still carrying Sig. I just haven’t seen the all convincing evidence yet. Glock leg was hold over from old ass cops using revolvers It was training issue plain and simple No "recall" or "upgrade" has changed the fundamental way it works from a safety perspective Pull trigger gun goes pew No external safety for them (save special runs) Too many questions around JUST the 320 to make any sane rational person second guess carrying it Don't hear about Glocks/HK/SW, etc occuring at this rate, only the 320 |
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Quoted: I'm not saying any issues Glock has had are as bad as as the P320's issues, but it's been quite a bit more than that. They had the gen 1 striker update, what else? The gen 4 9mm's getting shipped with .40 cal recoil springs is a low level QC issue, not a "voluntary upgrade" |
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Todays p320 uncommanded discharges is yesterdays glock leg. History might not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme. Pepperidge farms remember glock redesigning their striker assembly in the gen 1’s and 2’s, but of course, it was a training issue. Must be why glock had to redesign their striker assembly to be safer. Glock 6 part upgrade GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 is very similar to sigs voluntary upgrade. Eventually this will be forgotten just like Glock leg, and there will be a new handgun that becomes popular and the same demographic from glock leg and p320 ud’s will start blaming the new gun for their incompetence. |
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Quoted: If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. So was this one of the replacement guns that went off in the holster with the safety on? Attached File |
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Quoted: Sig will never admit the 320 is defective. They 'd be destroyed by lawsuits and God knows what the Army would do to them https://www.thetrace.org/2024/12/sig-sauer-p320-safety-lawsuit-death/ Roman Neshin, 41, died October 1 in his Bucks County home after a bullet fired from his SIG Sauer P320 pistol pierced his groin and punctured his femoral artery, according to the lawsuit and an interview with his widow's attorney. Neighbors found him lying unresponsive in his basement hours later with an unused tourniquet in his lap and a cellphone by his side. The lawsuit indicates that plastic fragments were found in Neshin's wound, suggesting that the gun fired while at least partially seated in its holster. In an email to The Trace, SIG Sauer did not comment on the new lawsuit. The company said it provides "printed materials with every pistol with numerous warnings," and that the safety manual advises "against carrying a round in the chamber until ready to fire." Jurors concluded that SIG Sauer was liable for Abrahams's shooting because it had not designed the P320 with an external safety like that used on Glocks and other pistols. External safeties generally prevent a gun's trigger from moving backward when dropped, or when indirect pressure, like that from a holster, is applied. Neshin's death deepens the controversy embroiling SIG Sauer as its flagship handgun is tied to an increasing number of unintentional shooting injuries. On November 20, a Philadelphia jury awarded $11 million in damages to Army veteran George Abrahams, who suffered a gunshot wound to his leg while descending a staircase at his home with a P320 zipped into his pants pocket. |