[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIGUSA responds. (Page 3 of 8)
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That’s a good one.  |
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Quoted: Fuck that. Need to go buy some random guns from a gun store. Quoted: Quoted: Sig, do everything like blame holsters, buckles, shirts, etc.....rather than send a dozen randomly selected guns to an independent to test them and provide unbiased input. Sig has the money to do this.... Fuck that. Need to go buy some random guns from a gun store. Attached File |
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Quoted: Yes, he did. To illicit a failure. That was part of his "durability" test that he oddly, never did before or since. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: MAC should throw a 320 at some steel plates, like his VP9 video. He did that? What a retard. The VP9 is far superior to the P320 in every way. Yes, he did. To illicit a failure. That was part of his "durability" test that he oddly, never did before or since. Damn. I need to watch that stupidity. Of all of the striker fired guns, the VP9 has to be the best out of the box. |
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Quoted: Just to be Devils advocate here, Glock has historically been number one for NDs because of the pull the trigger on takedown part of the manual of arms. Nobody really thinks anything about it because it's very clearly user error. To claim it doesn't happen at all, though, is a little disingenuous. Everyone seems to forget “Glock leg” which was very much a thing years ago. |
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Quoted: Thank you for posting the video. That settles it for me. Sig’s position was extremely persuasive. I’m good with Sig and the P320. There really is no problem; just a bunch of social-media nonsense to try to slander Sig. No problem. I don't do social media other than arfcom. The SIG rep even admitted that when they started having 320 drop issues it was found by testing they never did. Its in the video I posted in the OP. Maybe you missed it. It is possible this is a issue they have never found. But instead they want to gaslight gun owners. If I am correct, SIGUSA has over 100 lawsuits pending. There is a problem if you want to admit it or not. |
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Safariland Ballast Holster mentioned in the video. From Safariland... Decades of feedback and design improvements have shaped Ballast’s functionality. Ballast’s lightweight and durable design stands up to the toughest conditions. A proprietary crush-resistant design shields Ballast’s internal components and Safariland’s new Ingress Guard further protects the trigger inside the holster. |
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Quoted: Looks about the same as the dimple you get chambering a round in an AR. Quoted: Quoted: Sig performed a vibration test on ten random P320s, and acknowledged (simply by disclosing test results) three of the ten pistols failed by allowing, “light strikes.” Sig never disclosed whether primers detonated in the failed guns, but it appeared in the low-res photos, those “light strikes” were enough to detonate primers. Sig, I believe, maintains that these guns functioned normally. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91362/IMG_0601-3539138.jpg Looks about the same as the dimple you get chambering a round in an AR. Yes. Which is normal on an AR. The P320 striker isn’t free-floating, and under no circumstance should a pistol dimple a primer without a trigger pull. |
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Quoted: As a Sig (classics) fan and 3x 320 owner I do too. Unlike most here I'm not sold on the video GD believes is the grail. I want definitive proof that says this is/are the parts that are bad/failed and it causes a UD and can be repeated. Until that is PROVEN its speculation. I've said this since the video came out with the "long pokey" if this is indeed the grail it will shortly become a point of reference in the next court case, we will see if it is convincing or not. Quoted: Quoted: I'm looking forward to Garand Thumb's video on it. As a Sig (classics) fan and 3x 320 owner I do too. Unlike most here I'm not sold on the video GD believes is the grail. I want definitive proof that says this is/are the parts that are bad/failed and it causes a UD and can be repeated. Until that is PROVEN its speculation. I've said this since the video came out with the "long pokey" if this is indeed the grail it will shortly become a point of reference in the next court case, we will see if it is convincing or not. Well, there's more than one video, a whole bunch of people on this site and elsewhere on the internet have reproduced the tests, and dozens of examples have failed. The latest video in the series explains why the firing pin block is being disengaged without the trigger pulled, why it wasn't a problem in the original design of the P320, and how to DIY mitigate the problem:  How to fix a P320 that fails the Sear Movement Test The reason the UDs are so rare is because this system has to fail AND something has to cause the sear to drop. The second part seems especially hard to diagnose, but it's effectively been proven that the striker block system is failing, and why. |
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When did MAC become a SIG Shill? I remember when the SIG Rattler and MCX came out, he was pretty damn critical of SIG about those first gens and I thought he had even made it on their @#$* list during that period. Now, I haven't really followed him closely since that point, but if he's a SIG Shill he must have done a serious 180 change. |
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Quoted: When did MAC become a SIG Shill? I remember when the SIG Rattler and MCX came out, he was pretty damn critical of SIG about those first gens and I thought he had even made it on their @#$* list during that period. Now, I haven't really followed him closely since that point, but if he's a SIG Shill he must have done a serious 180 change. MAC loves money. Sig has money. MAC loves Sig. |
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Quoted: When did MAC become a SIG Shill? I remember when the SIG Rattler and MCX came out, he was pretty damn critical of SIG about those first gens and I thought he had even made it on their @#$* list during that period. Now, I haven't really followed him closely since that point, but if he's a SIG Shill he must have done a serious 180 change. He did awhile back. His EDC is a P365 he says as much in the video. |
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Quoted: Has there been any commonality in holsters for these discharges? It would be interesting to take a bunch of 320's, put them in holsters and then attach them to some kind of machine that vibrates and jostles them around to see if the problem could be reproduced in a controlled environment. Yes, all the holsters that had uncommanded discharges had 320s in them. |
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Quoted: He did awhile back. His EDC is a P365 he says as much in the video. Didn't he do several videos shitting all over the P365 when they came out? Dude think he's a smooth talking politician and the people he's talking to have the memory of a goldfish. In reality, he comes across more like a used car salesman. Like Danny Devito in Matilda. |
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Quoted: SP2022 Gen 2 with an optics mount! Quoted: Quoted: Sig should just bring back the SP2022 until it fixes the 320 issues. SP2022 Gen 2 with an optics mount! The 2022 was most underrated sig ever. I had 1 in 9 and 357, along with a 229 in 357 and 228 in 9mm. The 2022s outshot the metal sigs. |
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Quoted: Didn't he do several videos shitting all over the P365 when they came out? Dude think he's a smooth talking politician and the people he's talking to have the memory of a goldfish. In reality, he comes across more like a used car salesman. Like Danny Devito in Matilda. That's him. He trashed the P365. In this video he praises them for making the changes he wanted. Meanwhile Carry Trainer (youtuber) had another P365 go down in one of his classes last week. That's the second one in two weeks. Both broken trigger return springs. The same thing I've said for the last 3 years. Carry Trainer loves the P365 but he carries a Glock 48. |
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Quoted: Oh boy. That would break the interwebs. Quoted: Quoted: Have the SIG president sit down with Herrera, uncensored, and then I'll watch. Oh boy. That would break the interwebs. It was one thing to ignore video evidence and make bullshit claims about their reliability, but once SIG tripled down on calling anyone talking negatively about the P320 as "anti-gun grifter shills", they shit in their own punchbowl for the last time with me. There are SO many other good options right now, arguably the most solid full-size 9mm lineup in history.. there's ZERO reason to fuck with the P320 unless you're chasing a sunk-cost fallacy, or trying to salvage your government contracts. |
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Quoted: Morgan Freeman voice: But it didn't end that day, for the internet got the best of Sig and there was no end in sight... Quoted: Quoted: "It ends today" Narrator: It didn't. Morgan Freeman voice: But it didn't end that day, for the internet got the best of Sig and there was no end in sight... 
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Quoted: Didn't he do several videos shitting all over the P365 when they came out? Dude think he's a smooth talking politician and the people he's talking to have the memory of a goldfish. In reality, he comes across more like a used car salesman. Like Danny Devito in Matilda. Quoted: Quoted: He did awhile back. His EDC is a P365 he says as much in the video. Didn't he do several videos shitting all over the P365 when they came out? Dude think he's a smooth talking politician and the people he's talking to have the memory of a goldfish. In reality, he comes across more like a used car salesman. Like Danny Devito in Matilda. To be fair, the P365 has change A LOT since introduction. They had a lot of striker failures early on, and the original 10 round configuration isn't very popular. Most people go for the X, the XL, or something fancier. |
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Quoted: I agree, the SP2022 is a good pistol. Quoted: Quoted: Sig should just bring back the SP2022 until it fixes the 320 issues. I agree, the SP2022 is a good pistol. The Sig Pro was a stellar gun, and one I wished I had purchased before Sig USA smothered them in favor of pushing the 250. I think they were a design from the Europe side of the house? |
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Quoted: If they admitted the guns were bad people would probably start getting whacked. There’s a lot of high up pockets that probably got lined for that shit show. Love him or hate him, Paul Howe was talking about the 320 in a recent video and pretty much said a bunch of Retired Army Officers sold out and took jobs at Sig and it's one of a long-lost of why the military and gun world has gone to shit. |
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Quoted: Sig, do everything like blame holsters, buckles, shirts, etc.....rather than send a dozen randomly selected guns to an independent to test them and provide unbiased input. Sig has the money to do this.... The Sig rep claims in the video that there have been third party testing companies hired by law firms suing Sig that have done extensive testing and can’t replicate the problem. If that’s true or not I don’t know but the rep in the video was pretty convincing. I say this as someone who doesn’t own a striker fired handgun and have talked friends out of purchasing Sig 320s. |
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Quoted: Yeah. They all had a P320 in them. Quoted: Quoted: Has there been any commonality in holsters for these discharges? Yeah. They all had a P320 in them. Attached File |
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Quoted: Just to be Devils advocate here, Glock has historically been number one for NDs because of the pull the trigger on takedown part of the manual of arms. Nobody really thinks anything about it because it's very clearly user error. To claim it doesn't happen at all, though, is a little disingenuous. Fair but to be honest the issues with the 320 are pretty much the building hostory of ones where there appears to be no operator error or safety violation. Im old enough to remember Ayoob in the press internet days talking about all the NDs with glocks due to fingers going on on the trigger too early or staying on the trigger while under stress with the short trigger pull being unforgiving. Glocks were never going off in holsters. Stack any histories of Glock or M&Ps versus sig in the same time frame and contested (was not operator error with some proof available) claims will be practically non existent compared to the 320s. |
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Quoted: The Sig rep claims in the video that there have been third party testing companies hired by law firms suing Sig that have done extensive testing and can’t replicate the problem. If that’s true or not I don’t know but the rep in the video was pretty convincing. I say this as someone who doesn’t own a striker fired handgun and have talked friends out of purchasing Sig 320s. He also speculated that it was keys that fired the Mountville PD holstered gun. SIG before said the gun was not fully holstered. Now they changed their tune. Which is it? |
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Succinct, and figuratively accurate. |
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Quoted: He also speculated that it was keys that fired the Mountville PD holstered gun. SIG before said the gun was not fully holstered. Now they changed their tune. Which is it? Quoted: Quoted: The Sig rep claims in the video that there have been third party testing companies hired by law firms suing Sig that have done extensive testing and can’t replicate the problem. If that’s true or not I don’t know but the rep in the video was pretty convincing. I say this as someone who doesn’t own a striker fired handgun and have talked friends out of purchasing Sig 320s. He also speculated that it was keys that fired the Mountville PD holstered gun. SIG before said the gun was not fully holstered. Now they changed their tune. Which is it? They’re going to be deploying their “selling ice to eskimos” talent at this point, so all of the above coupled with categorical denials! |
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Quoted: IIRC he was aggressively anti NRA back when such thoughts were considered wrong think here. Though I think he also generally showed his ass enough to warrant it Quoted: Quoted: Why was he banned? I think what did him in was the big thread with the SVD importation stuff where he got called out on his unethical business practices and blew a gasket on the membership. |
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Quoted: Fair but to be honest the issues with the 320 are pretty much the building hostory of ones where there appears to be no operator error or safety violation. Im old enough to remember Ayoob in the press internet days talking about all the NDs with glocks due to fingers going on on the trigger too early or staying on the trigger while under stress with the short trigger pull being unforgiving. Glocks were never going off in holsters. Stack any histories of Glock or M&Ps versus sig in the same time frame and contested (was not operator error with some proof available) claims will be practically non existent compared to the 320s. I hear what you're saying, but it just isn't accurate. I've known people, cops in fact, that shot the effin floor with a Glock, in a holster, and the story is always the same ... "It just went off by itself, like a wizard commanded it from afar with a wand." In reality the example I'm thinking of was keys hanging off a bag. Snuck inside a light bearing holster, boom, and that was like 15+ years ago. All this has happened before, and will happen again. I'm not sure why everyone's so emotionally charged about it like the two sides of Covid, but they are, and both want to gloss over stuff that's important so their side 'wins' ?? |
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Quoted: I hear what you're saying, but it just isn't accurate. I've known people, cops in fact, that shot the effin floor with a Glock, in a holster, and the story is always the same ... "It just went off by itself, like a wizard commanded it from afar with a wand." In reality the example I'm thinking of was keys hanging off a bag. Snuck inside a light bearing holster, boom, and that was like 15+ years ago. All this has happened before, and will happen again. I'm not sure why everyone's so emotionally charged about it like the two sides of Covid, but they are, and both want to gloss over stuff that's important so their side 'wins' ?? Please me know when you carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked with the back strap safety taped down. I'll wait. If people could see a fully cocked striker with no safety they would not carry it. |