[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 97 of 142)
|
Quoted: That always seemed to me a stupid thing to promote. Id heard that before but didnt know it came from him. Bet he never said that about revolvers. Quoted: Quoted: Cooper used to advocate sending the first round into the dirt during the draw stroke with DA/SA autos. That always seemed to me a stupid thing to promote. Id heard that before but didnt know it came from him. Bet he never said that about revolvers. To a lot of people a revolver was to be cocked first. He also told guys that showed up with revolvers they should just carry 1911s. I dont think he was the first to say it neither was he the last. Some of the more advanced folks with the platforms said you could master the DA at typical ranges and simply cock the gun at longer distances. Got to remember the first popular DA auto came about in the 30s. |
|
Quoted: Frame cracking issue resolved? Quoted: Quoted: Time to start firing up the forges: https://gunsweek.b-cdn.net/sites/default/files/archive/contents/pistols/articles/colt-m45a1-cqbp-semi-automatic-pistol/Colt_M45A1_USMC_FDE_3.JPG Frame cracking issue resolved? Slide not frame and yes resolved. |
|
Quoted: The NASA admin stated risk of death from the shuttle was 1:10,000 vs engineers who quoted, roughly 1:200 (off the top of my head). NASA also pressured Thiokol to endorse the mission after they vetoed it due to temperature issues. Someone at SIG knows what’s happening, but like NASA admin, they’re burying their heads up their asses & hoping it will somehow go away. The problem has been replicated by FBI & is likely a mix of trigger components & “safety components” tolerances that aren’t quite tolerant with a fully cocked striker. So, under certain conditions, the gun fires without trigger action. But it’ll go away…. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This SIG situation reads like NASA & Challenger disaster. SIG being NASA, of course. Even if a “freak mishap” occurs 0.01% when conditions are perfect for failure & unintended discharge, how many millions of M17/18s are in the wild? The NASA admin stated risk of death from the shuttle was 1:10,000 vs engineers who quoted, roughly 1:200 (off the top of my head). NASA also pressured Thiokol to endorse the mission after they vetoed it due to temperature issues. Someone at SIG knows what’s happening, but like NASA admin, they’re burying their heads up their asses & hoping it will somehow go away. The problem has been replicated by FBI & is likely a mix of trigger components & “safety components” tolerances that aren’t quite tolerant with a fully cocked striker. So, under certain conditions, the gun fires without trigger action. But it’ll go away…. Brandon Herrera claims to know "former Sig engineers" that told him people within the company know there's a problem and it's "water cooler talk" there. That statement is a bit darker now. |
|
Quoted: AHT did the same thing. Said 320's were banned from all classes. Months later, several 320s in a class. It sure did generate a lot of clicks though. Quoted: Quoted: LOL let me be cool but still suckle the .gov titty. Get me that letter.  AHT did the same thing. Said 320's were banned from all classes. Months later, several 320s in a class. It sure did generate a lot of clicks though. The grumblings in the community continues. Banning 320's is a huge deal. |
|
Quoted: AHT did the same thing. Said 320's were banned from all classes. Months later, several 320s in a class. It sure did generate a lot of clicks though. Quoted: Quoted: LOL let me be cool but still suckle the .gov titty. Get me that letter. AHT did the same thing. Said 320's were banned from all classes. Months later, several 320s in a class. It sure did generate a lot of clicks though. They've indicated on their social media in posts that what you're saying is false. |
|
Quoted: I have four because for some god awful reason my wife seems to like Sig. We have a P320-M17, P320-M18, another X-Carry, and an actual military issue model M18 which I was keeping unfired. The P320-M17 FCU is SBR’d in a Flux Raider. I really don’t like shooting the P320’s. I much prefer and carry Glock. It’s not just the guns and the fact they’re essentially worthless that bothers me, but also that I have a ton of mags for them. Hopefully Sig does some sort of buy back down the road because they aren’t going to sell for much second hand and I wouldn’t trust them, even if there was a recall and fix. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I own 8 M17/M18 variants...  We have three, I have a full sized and compact. Wife liked the full sized so much I made her get her own. Guess I now have the motivation to get a revolver. There were a few she really liked, and they were a lot easier for her to use. I have four because for some god awful reason my wife seems to like Sig. We have a P320-M17, P320-M18, another X-Carry, and an actual military issue model M18 which I was keeping unfired. The P320-M17 FCU is SBR’d in a Flux Raider. I really don’t like shooting the P320’s. I much prefer and carry Glock. It’s not just the guns and the fact they’re essentially worthless that bothers me, but also that I have a ton of mags for them. Hopefully Sig does some sort of buy back down the road because they aren’t going to sell for much second hand and I wouldn’t trust them, even if there was a recall and fix. I'm the one who really liked the Sigs, and my wife hated my 92fs that I just dusted off. Have a few things I need for it to be a regular carry, one of which I already ordered. Strangely I really like the Beretta for how it shoots. |
|
Would like to have more details, who, what , where, when. And if its on video I can't believe it hasn't been put out for viewing. |
|
Quoted: They've indicated on their social media in posts that what you're saying is false. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: LOL let me be cool but still suckle the .gov titty. Get me that letter. AHT did the same thing. Said 320's were banned from all classes. Months later, several 320s in a class. It sure did generate a lot of clicks though. They've indicated on their social media in posts that what you're saying is false. I know they have and it is a lie. It is a fact that there were 320's in a class about 4 weeks ago. They just dont show them on their social media. |
SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for. Gun maker sues to block Washington's police academy ban on Sig Sauer P320s I'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. Attached File |
|
Quoted: SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCW2cGxNpNII'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/Skye_16m_jpg-3593780.JPG We already lost the happy ending when the airman was killed. |
|
Quoted: SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCW2cGxNpNII'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/Skye_16m_jpg-3593780.JPG Three people are dead and over 100 wounded. There is no happy ending. Only Sig Shills that can't come face to face with reality spewing shit for a company that will throw them under a grave marker like they never heard of them just as quick as they did the others. Do you really think Ron Cohen will pay for your funeral because you're such a fan? |
|
Quoted: We already lost the happy ending when the airman was killed. It's a shame the Airman lost his life. May he RIP. If SIG is found to be at fault because of the P320/M18, then SIG should pay and get what's deserved. However until the investigation is complete, throwing the blame on the M18 seems a bit premature. I hope the Air Force can conclude what indeed is the root cause of death, and hold the parties responsible accountable. I personally will stop trusting my P320's when they let me down, not when the echo chamber says to. |
|
Quoted: Oh it's about to. It was just a matter of time before enough of these happened, and enough fatalities started to stack up, for this to explode and end the P320. Very well might end SIG. I recoil away from anything SIG now. Anything with that logo, and I'm out. I'm not the only one. Random's are starting to do the same. Sig blew this hard. But then, their leadership with the golden parachute's and quarterly bonus already made their bank, and will be protected and paid out handsomely; so Mission Accomplished. American corporate culture 101: squeeze, strip mine, then run like hell. Maybe they can take the XM7 with them. |
|
Quoted: I doubt they have a legal leg to stand on It’s just cringe on top of cringe. Which is increasingly on-brand. |
| Eventually the burden of liability is going to shift to include those selling, using and allowing the use of this gun. We're already seeing it move in that direction with PDs, schools and ranges banning the 320. Eventually, even those who refuse to acknowledge the problem are going to be taking the legal risk of carrying a gun that has known issues, should that gun discharge and injure a third party. |
|
Quoted: I'm the one who really liked the Sigs, and my wife hated my 92fs that I just dusted off. Have a few things I need for it to be a regular carry, one of which I already ordered. Strangely I really like the Beretta for how it shoots. I like my P320s. They are a joy to shoot. No way I would carry one in a holster. |
|
Quoted: Time to start firing up the forges: https://gunsweek.b-cdn.net/sites/default/files/archive/contents/pistols/articles/colt-m45a1-cqbp-semi-automatic-pistol/Colt_M45A1_USMC_FDE_3.JPG Man I wish I would've bought one of those when they were available.  _______________ I am taking a pistol training class later this year. I really hope they come out and ban this gun like many others have. 
|
|
Quoted: Man I wish I would've bought one of those when they were available. _______________ I am taking a pistol training class later this year. I really hope they come out and ban this gun like many others have. I haven't seen a run of Colt railguns in the past 5 years. CCUs, DEs, or M45A1s. I've been patiently waiting for a CCU Government railgun .45 for some time now. Of course they'll probably sell out as soon as they hit distributors and I won't get one when they finally do. Arms Unlimited has the non railed CCU but it's not the same. |
|
Quoted: How long until Academy Sports and Bass Pro pull them? That has to be some liability exposure at this point. The final report on this incident. This has made national news. It's more exposure than ever before. If it comes out that the Air Force puts the blame on the gun, then at that point I think the dam breaks. |
|
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2025/07/24/airman-who-died-in-air-force-gunshot-incident-identified-as-kentucky-21-year-old/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&_kx=eoKQF6QLMrMg2Jzp8cxc76ZdfR13LLnQgZJGvVvY2uw.UXPtrV The airman who died in an on-duty incident Sunday at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne has been identified as a 21-year-old from Kentucky. In a Thursday statement, the U.S. Air Force also confirms his death involved a gunshot and a Sig M18 pistol. The airman who died in an on-duty incident with a gun Sunday at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne has been identified as a 21-year-old from Kentucky, according to an Air Force statement and his obituary. The Air Force wing overseeing the base also confirmed that the man’s death involved a gunshot. Brayden Lovan, 21, was a defender assigned to the 90th Security Forces Squadron, 90th Security Forces Group, said the 90th Missile Wing in a Thursday statement, adding that he died around 1:30 a.m. Sunday. Reports of unintentional firings by Sig P320 firearms have compounded nationally in recent months. Security Forces Combat Arms airmen at all AFGSC bases will conduct 100% inspections of the M18 handguns to identify any immediate safety concerns, the statement says. “At this time, no determination has been made regarding the nature of the discharge,” it adds. |
|
I'll assume the retired GOs who work for Sig are currently going hands on with Sig leadership behind closed doors over this, demanding a public accounting and a plan to wind down this product. If they're not, they have no honor. So I'll assume they're doing the right thing. |
|
Quoted: I'll assume the retired GOs who work for Sig are currently going hands on with Sig leadership behind closed doors over this, demanding a public accounting and a plan to wind down this product. If they're not, they have no honor. So I'll assume they're doing the right thing. Lol that's cute They are going behind doors asking for more $$ to stay quiet or to support sig |
|
Quoted: It's a shame the Airman lost his life. May he RIP. If SIG is found to be at fault because of the P320/M18, then SIG should pay and get what's deserved. However until the investigation is complete, throwing the blame on the M18 seems a bit premature. I hope the Air Force can conclude what indeed is the root cause of death, and hold the parties responsible accountable. I personally will stop trusting my P320's when they let me down, not when the echo chamber says to. 3 dead, 100+ wounded State and City Academy's banning them. an FBI report on them. Private Academy's and Ranges banning them. I would hardly call that an Echo Chamber |
|
Quoted: I'll assume the retired GOs who work for Sig are currently going hands on with Sig leadership behind closed doors over this, demanding a public accounting and a plan to wind down this product. If they're not, they have no honor. So I'll assume they're doing the right thing. Yes, Honor is the primary personality trait that I would attribute to the individuals who picked sigs shit pistol and silly rifle in exchange for a cushy paycheck immediately after they retired |
|
Quoted: How often does throwing a legal temper tantrum to force a police academy to allow your company’s gun actually work? Not sating it hasn't happened but to my knowledge I haven't heard of a police academy banning a particular firearm before. A department ran academy will only allow their issued pistol if they have one. There was a 100+ in my academy class. It was a state wide academy so every type of LEA was there. I saw all kinds of stuff back then. Including a Taurus. |
|
Quoted: I'll assume the retired GOs who work for Sig are currently going hands on with Sig leadership behind closed doors over this, demanding a public accounting and a plan to wind down this product. If they're not, they have no honor. So I'll assume they're doing the right thing. If they had ANY say in the selection process which resulted in Sig getting the contract they should have not applied for or accepted any type of post-retirement employment with the same company. It would be interesting to know if any members of the military who were involved in the procurement/selection process now work for Sig. |
|
Quoted: 3 dead, 100+ wounded State and City Academy's banning them. an FBI report on them. Private Academy's and Ranges banning them. I would hardly call that an Echo Chamber The people still defending this piece of shit gun are ridiculous. I guess they won't understand until they blow their own dick off. |
|
Quoted: SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCW2cGxNpNII'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/Skye_16m_jpg-3593780.JPG Pitbull….Opinion discarded. |
|
Quoted: It's a shame the Airman lost his life. May he RIP. If SIG is found to be at fault because of the P320/M18, then SIG should pay and get what's deserved. However until the investigation is complete, throwing the blame on the M18 seems a bit premature. I hope the Air Force can conclude what indeed is the root cause of death, and hold the parties responsible accountable. I personally will stop trusting my P320's when they let me down, not when the echo chamber says to. Quoted: Quoted: We already lost the happy ending when the airman was killed. It's a shame the Airman lost his life. May he RIP. If SIG is found to be at fault because of the P320/M18, then SIG should pay and get what's deserved. However until the investigation is complete, throwing the blame on the M18 seems a bit premature. I hope the Air Force can conclude what indeed is the root cause of death, and hold the parties responsible accountable. I personally will stop trusting my P320's when they let me down, not when the echo chamber says to. Good luck with that |
|
Quoted: No way bro, until someone can really prove it to me, I think it’s still user error…  Quoted: Quoted: 3 dead, 100+ wounded State and City Academy's banning them. an FBI report on them. Private Academy's and Ranges banning them. I would hardly call that an Echo Chamber No way bro, until someone can really prove it to me, I think it’s still user error… That has gotten so insufferable. That's not even how safety decison-making works. If the correlation is there, the burden of proof is on the explanation of why it can be safe moving forward. Coming up with the "why" is not the requirement to do a safety-stop. The "why" and corrective action, is the requirement to remove the safety stop. "We don't know, and don't think it's happening", so very isn't it. |
|
Quoted: SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCW2cGxNpNII'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/Skye_16m_jpg-3593780.JPG  Here's the full text of the lawsuit for anyone who wants to read it: https://www.scribd.com/document/892776011/Sig-Sauer-Lawsuit#fullscreen&from_embed The TL;DR is, as expected, a bunch of nonsensical bullshit. Sig makes a laundry list of claims and accusations, but the only one that might have some merit is the accusation that the WSCJTC policy didn't follow Washington's Administrative Procedures Act. I'm not digging into those weeds, but maybe. The rest is derp. Highlights include: -WSCJTC is somehow prejudiced against Sig Sauer even though the policy only applies to specific models and other Sigs are still authorized. -The WSCJTC is violating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms somehow despite the fact that the WSCJTC policy only applies to government personnel in their official duties, not the citizenry the RKBA actually protects. -The numerous Sigcidents, in Washington and elsewhere, referenced in the WSCJTC documents haven't been definitively proven to be the fault of the gun, therefore they can't be used in consideration of safety policy. Or something. -The WSCJTC Director shouldn't be allowed to make public statements about the P320. Seriously, Sig says this. |
|
Quoted: SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCW2cGxNpNII'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/Skye_16m_jpg-3593780.JPG Wow. As part of the lawsuit, Sig is asking that the executive director of the WA state police training commission be barred from making public statements about the P320. Attached File |
|
Quoted: Eventually the burden of liability is going to shift to include those selling, using and allowing the use of this gun. We're already seeing it move in that direction with PDs, schools and ranges banning the 320. Eventually, even those who refuse to acknowledge the problem are going to be taking the legal risk of carrying a gun that has known issues, should that gun discharge and injure a third party. I don't think we're far from this happening. If an average Joe buys a P320 in, let's say September 2025, and then he experiences a UD, the conditions might exist where a lawyer could articulate that the retailer that sold him the gun should have known about the problems with the P320, and they never should have recommended one to a customer. FFLs that want to protect themselves should probably stop selling P320s entirely or require customers to sign a waiver when they do the 4473. |
|
Quoted: The people still defending this piece of shit gun are ridiculous. I guess they won't understand until they blow their own dick off. Quoted: Quoted: 3 dead, 100+ wounded State and City Academy's banning them. an FBI report on them. Private Academy's and Ranges banning them. I would hardly call that an Echo Chamber The people still defending this piece of shit gun are ridiculous. I guess they won't understand until they blow their own dick off. They sell for thousands in CA. It's the latest and greatest on our "roster" and DJ Shipley so the kids love em. Every gun store in CA has a couple in stock with all the Sig frames you can by to change them up. |
|
Quoted: I doubt they have a legal leg to stand on Quoted: Quoted: How often does throwing a legal temper tantrum to force a police academy to allow your company’s gun actually work? Thurston County Courts are full of anti gun douchebags. This will go no where. Its Sig trying to save face. |
|
Quoted: I haven't seen a run of Colt railguns in the past 5 years. CCUs, DEs, or M45A1s. I've been patiently waiting for a CCU Government railgun .45 for some time now. Of course they'll probably sell out as soon as they hit distributors and I won't get one when they finally do. Arms Unlimited has the non railed CCU but it's not the same. Quoted: Quoted: Man I wish I would've bought one of those when they were available. _______________ I am taking a pistol training class later this year. I really hope they come out and ban this gun like many others have. I haven't seen a run of Colt railguns in the past 5 years. CCUs, DEs, or M45A1s. I've been patiently waiting for a CCU Government railgun .45 for some time now. Of course they'll probably sell out as soon as they hit distributors and I won't get one when they finally do. Arms Unlimited has the non railed CCU but it's not the same. Would be pretty amazing if they released the CCU Railgun with an optics cut and cowitness front sight and irons on the plates. |
|
Quoted: I don't think we're far from this happening. If an average Joe buys a P320 in, let's say September 2025, and then he experiences a UD, the conditions might exist where a lawyer could articulate that the retailer that sold him the gun should have known about the problems with the P320, and they never should have recommended one to a customer. FFLs that want to protect themselves should probably stop selling P320s entirely or require customers to sign a waiver when they do the 4473. I just act like they don't exist. Customer: Hey, I'd like to see some different guns to buy. Me: Sure! Here are some S&Ws, Berettas, Rugers, Taurus,a few HKs....and uhhh....some Springfields, Walthers, Glocks.. |
|
Quoted: I wouldn’t think so. Sounds like the corporate equivalent of stalking a girl because she broke up with you in hopes that she somehow regains interest. It’s just cringe on top of cringe. Which is increasingly on-brand. Quoted: Quoted: I doubt they have a legal leg to stand on It’s just cringe on top of cringe. Which is increasingly on-brand. Sig being like Biff in Back To The Future: You're MIIINE Loraine, you hear me, YOU'RE MIIIIINE!!! |
|
Quoted: I don't understand why Sig has not come up with a fix at this point. They have know this has been a problem for a while now! If they could have, they would have. The implication is that fixing the problem would require an engineering change big enough to create legal and contractual problems. |
|
Quoted: SIG is not going down without a fight! This may upset the Me-Too movement you fellas got going on but I don't think this has the happy ending you all are hoping for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCW2cGxNpNII'm fucked all the way by ARF standards... I own several P320's and SIG's and I even got the PitBull. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/Skye_16m_jpg-3593780.JPG LOL Bought into Sig the lifestyle brand wholesale, haven’t you? |
|
Quoted: I just act like they don't exist. Customer: Hey, I'd like to see some different guns to buy. Me: Sure! Here are some S&Ws, Berettas, Rugers, Taurus,a few HKs....and uhhh....some Springfields, Walthers, Glocks.. Quoted: Quoted: I don't think we're far from this happening. If an average Joe buys a P320 in, let's say September 2025, and then he experiences a UD, the conditions might exist where a lawyer could articulate that the retailer that sold him the gun should have known about the problems with the P320, and they never should have recommended one to a customer. FFLs that want to protect themselves should probably stop selling P320s entirely or require customers to sign a waiver when they do the 4473. I just act like they don't exist. Customer: Hey, I'd like to see some different guns to buy. Me: Sure! Here are some S&Ws, Berettas, Rugers, Taurus,a few HKs....and uhhh....some Springfields, Walthers, Glocks.. I'm pretty sure my LGS has done the same. They used to sell a good number of P320s. People asked for them, and indecisive customers could get interested simply by saying "this is the Army's new service pistol." P320 sales were already in decline, but the "it ends today" social media campaign legit killed them. There are two new P320s left in stock, and both have been sitting there since before it ended. Nobody asks for them, and nobody suggests them. |