[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 94 of 142)
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Quoted: This could be how it actually ends:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwftalqXkAAqKUl?format=png&name=360x360
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwfvxtaWMAA94gD?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gwfw4l9WgAAOyad?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gwftp2fWcAAx5Df?format=png&name=360x360 Oh boy. I dont envy those Sig Engineers . |
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Quoted: In a poll with over 500 respondents, 93% of Arfcom says the military should ditch the M17/M18. I can’t think of many polls where 90%+ of Arfcom agrees on anything. I don’t know if 90%+ of Arfcom likes getting blowjobs. I don’t know if 90%+ of Arfcom would keep a $100 bill they found blowing across a parking lot. And yet, here we are. thats amazing |
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Quoted: A few of those engineers know what's up and are keeping their mouths shut. Don't have too much sympathy for them. Quoted: Quoted: Oh boy. I dont envy those Sig Engineers. A few of those engineers know what's up and are keeping their mouths shut. Don't have too much sympathy for them. Some of those guys are making life choices driven by fear at this point. Even if Sig hasn't threatened them, stepping forward as whistleblowers or whatever will probably ruin them. |
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Quoted: This video was apparently filmed prior to the news of the death of the Airman:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQl0gmLFBJ8Attached File Interesting comment on that video. Could something be going on with that magazine block device? Seems odd but I’m not intimately familiar with P320 internals. |
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Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581716/IMG_5941_jpeg-3592899.JPG Interesting comment on that video. Could something be going on with that magazine block device? Seems odd but I’m not intimately familiar with P320 internals. Quoted: Quoted: This video was apparently filmed prior to the news of the death of the Airman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQl0gmLFBJ8https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581716/IMG_5941_jpeg-3592899.JPG Interesting comment on that video. Could something be going on with that magazine block device? Seems odd but I’m not intimately familiar with P320 internals. Maybe it's been lost in all the other noise, but I think that's a new one to me. |
SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025  ETA: Two things I'm noting here... 1) "Air Force and Army" - that seems significant. 2) This is the first P320 post I think we've seen from an official Sig channel that wasn't arrogant bloviating. |
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Quoted: Maybe it's been lost in all the other noise, but I think that's a new one to me. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This video was apparently filmed prior to the news of the death of the Airman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQl0gmLFBJ8https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581716/IMG_5941_jpeg-3592899.JPG Interesting comment on that video. Could something be going on with that magazine block device? Seems odd but I’m not intimately familiar with P320 internals. Maybe it's been lost in all the other noise, but I think that's a new one to me. New to me, too, and I’m definitely not endorsing the idea because I don’t know how those parts all interact intentionally or unintentionally. It definitely piqued my curiosity, but it could be complete nonsense. |
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Quoted: SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwksWDbWkAAG3uX?format=jpg&name=large Butt, meet PR covering spin. "no, we really aren't predatory like this, we're humans, not lizard people!"  Fight club - Recall formula "If x is less than the cost of recall, we won't do it." |
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Quoted: Butt, meet PR covering spin. "no, we really aren't predatory like this, we're humans, not lizard people!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2EBWFCULg"If x is less than the cost of recall, we won't do it." Quoted: Quoted: SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwksWDbWkAAG3uX?format=jpg&name=large Butt, meet PR covering spin. "no, we really aren't predatory like this, we're humans, not lizard people!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2EBWFCULg"If x is less than the cost of recall, we won't do it." It's been 138 days since "it ended," and it's been quite the down hill ride since then. I think Sig is facing one hell of a squeeze right now. They're losing huge contracts and consumer sales from this, and the more reports we see from FBI, DHS, and now DOD, the more standing people are going to have taking them to court. Less money is coming in, more money is going out. Somehow, they have to save contracts, save their reputation with the public, and mitigate legal damages. I'm starting to wonder if they'll be able to do that. If they don't navigate this storm, this really could be episode 2 of a trilogy... Episode 1: It Ends Today. Episode 2: It NDs Today. Episode 3: Sig Ends Today. |
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I wonder if any brass in the military or politicians will be held accountable for this. The controversy around the minimal testing for adoption now looks immensely worse. A pistol that is allegedly unsafe resulting in harm also happens to be the most untested before adoption? Kind of hard not to connect any dots at this point. |
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Quoted: A few of those engineers know what's up and are keeping their mouths shut. Don't have too much sympathy for them. Quoted: Quoted: Oh boy. I dont envy those Sig Engineers. A few of those engineers know what's up and are keeping their mouths shut. Don't have too much sympathy for them. They should be seeing how much evidence of fraud they can smuggle out in their lunchboxes and finding a lawyer. Kharn |
| I wonder if literally every email or correspondence within Sig about the P320 has "Legally privileged" in the header along with some corporate attorney cc'd, no matter how minor the issue is, or they are only doing in person communication (i.e. nothing in writing)? |
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Quoted: SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwksWDbWkAAG3uX?format=jpg&name=large ETA: Two things I'm noting here... 1) "Air Force and Army" - that seems significant. 2) This is the first P320 post I think we've seen from an official Sig channel that wasn't arrogant bloviating. One service is the lead in joint procurements and that's the Army for this one. Their program manager, their contacting officer. Kharn |
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Quoted: New to me, too, and I’m definitely not endorsing the idea because I don’t know how those parts all interact intentionally or unintentionally. It definitely piqued my curiosity, but it could be complete nonsense. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This video was apparently filmed prior to the news of the death of the Airman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQl0gmLFBJ8https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581716/IMG_5941_jpeg-3592899.JPG Interesting comment on that video. Could something be going on with that magazine block device? Seems odd but I’m not intimately familiar with P320 internals. Maybe it's been lost in all the other noise, but I think that's a new one to me. New to me, too, and I’m definitely not endorsing the idea because I don’t know how those parts all interact intentionally or unintentionally. It definitely piqued my curiosity, but it could be complete nonsense. Well... We know the Takedown Safety Lever should block a magazine if it's out of position, and the sear doesn't go to full engagement after reassembly until the slide release is pushed up. Maybe there's unintentional feedback, the same way between the sear and the Striker Safety Block? |
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Quoted: I wonder if any brass in the military or politicians will be held accountable for this. Attached File |
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Quoted: It's been 138 days since "it ended," and it's been quite the down hill ride since then. I think Sig is facing one hell of a squeeze right now. They're losing huge contracts and consumer sales from this, and the more reports we see from FBI, DHS, and now DOD, the more standing people are going to have taking them to court. Less money is coming in, more money is going out. Somehow, they have to save contracts, save their reputation with the public, and mitigate legal damages. I'm starting to wonder if they'll be able to do that. If they don't navigate this storm, this really could be episode 2 of a trilogy... Episode 1: It Ends Today. Episode 2: It NDs Today. Episode 3: Sig Ends Today. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwksWDbWkAAG3uX?format=jpg&name=large Butt, meet PR covering spin. "no, we really aren't predatory like this, we're humans, not lizard people!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2EBWFCULg"If x is less than the cost of recall, we won't do it." It's been 138 days since "it ended," and it's been quite the down hill ride since then. I think Sig is facing one hell of a squeeze right now. They're losing huge contracts and consumer sales from this, and the more reports we see from FBI, DHS, and now DOD, the more standing people are going to have taking them to court. Less money is coming in, more money is going out. Somehow, they have to save contracts, save their reputation with the public, and mitigate legal damages. I'm starting to wonder if they'll be able to do that. If they don't navigate this storm, this really could be episode 2 of a trilogy... Episode 1: It Ends Today. Episode 2: It NDs Today. Episode 3: Sig Ends Today. Cohen goes somewhere else and starts runing that place. |
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Quoted: It's been 138 days since "it ended," and it's been quite the down hill ride since then. I think Sig is facing one hell of a squeeze right now. They're losing huge contracts and consumer sales from this, and the more reports we see from FBI, DHS, and now DOD, the more standing people are going to have taking them to court. Less money is coming in, more money is going out. Somehow, they have to save contracts, save their reputation with the public, and mitigate legal damages. I'm starting to wonder if they'll be able to do that. If they don't navigate this storm, this really could be episode 2 of a trilogy... Episode 1: It Ends Today. Episode 2: It NDs Today. Episode 3: Sig Ends Today. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwksWDbWkAAG3uX?format=jpg&name=large Butt, meet PR covering spin. "no, we really aren't predatory like this, we're humans, not lizard people!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2EBWFCULg"If x is less than the cost of recall, we won't do it." It's been 138 days since "it ended," and it's been quite the down hill ride since then. I think Sig is facing one hell of a squeeze right now. They're losing huge contracts and consumer sales from this, and the more reports we see from FBI, DHS, and now DOD, the more standing people are going to have taking them to court. Less money is coming in, more money is going out. Somehow, they have to save contracts, save their reputation with the public, and mitigate legal damages. I'm starting to wonder if they'll be able to do that. If they don't navigate this storm, this really could be episode 2 of a trilogy... Episode 1: It Ends Today. Episode 2: It NDs Today. Episode 3: Sig Ends Today. this has been going on for months they are cooked |
| I picked up a 320 AXG Pro at the start of this year to get into shooting matches. The gun is a laser beam just like my wife's Legion. Unfortunately they are both stashed in the safe for the foreseeable future. Probably going to dump my 365 for Shield as well. Sig and their shills are absolutely disgusting in their handling of this. |
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Quoted: Is it ended yet? Oh it's about to. It was just a matter of time before enough of these happened, and enough fatalities started to stack up, for this to explode and end the P320. Very well might end SIG. I recoil away from anything SIG now. Anything with that logo, and I'm out. I'm not the only one. Random's are starting to do the same. Sig blew this hard. But then, their leadership with the golden parachute's and quarterly bonus already made their bank, and will be protected and paid out handsomely; so Mission Accomplished. |
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But how will I wave a P320? |
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Quoted: thats amazing Quoted: Quoted: In a poll with over 500 respondents, 93% of Arfcom says the military should ditch the M17/M18. I can’t think of many polls where 90%+ of Arfcom agrees on anything. I don’t know if 90%+ of Arfcom likes getting blowjobs. I don’t know if 90%+ of Arfcom would keep a $100 bill they found blowing across a parking lot. And yet, here we are. thats amazing X2 |
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Quoted: Oh it's about to. It was just a matter of time before enough of these happened, and enough fatalities started to stack up, for this to explode and end the P320. Very well might end SIG. I recoil away from anything SIG now. Anything with that logo, and I'm out. I'm not the only one. Random's are starting to do the same. Sig blew this hard. But then, their leadership with the golden parachute's and quarterly bonus already made their bank, and will be protected and paid out handsomely; so Mission Accomplished. Quoted: Quoted: Is it ended yet? Oh it's about to. It was just a matter of time before enough of these happened, and enough fatalities started to stack up, for this to explode and end the P320. Very well might end SIG. I recoil away from anything SIG now. Anything with that logo, and I'm out. I'm not the only one. Random's are starting to do the same. Sig blew this hard. But then, their leadership with the golden parachute's and quarterly bonus already made their bank, and will be protected and paid out handsomely; so Mission Accomplished. On the surface, that seems really far fetched. It's hard to know how much it would take for Sig to sink. But then I think about the current liability situation and the market, and it seems a bit less far fetched. If we consider just the liability of the P320s themselves, not including lawsuits, it seems like the paths are: 1) Sig continues to deflect and deny, and no changes are made or offered for existing guns. Based on current events, this path is losing viability very quickly. They're losing huge contracts, and consumer sales have dropped off hard. But maybe this is the way it goes? 2) Sig identifies a way to retrofit existing guns. Problem here is, there's 3.5M units in circulation. Let's be super generous and say these guns can be fixed with a $1 part. But it takes labor to log the guns, swap the parts, and box up the guns. Let's continue to be conservative and call that $20 per gun. And the guns have to be shipped back to customers. Let's call that $30 per gun. Just like that, you're at $180M just to swap a $1 part. 3) There is no retrofit. The guns have to be bought back or replaced with something. Even if Sig can build a new gun at a cost of $150 each, that's over half a billion dollars. And even with these horror show numbers, we haven't accounted for expenses due to lawsuits, and we haven't addressed the lost contracts or sales. Sig has lost some big contracts here already, those aren't coming back easily, and I don't think there are any big conquests up for them to grab. What major military or LE doesn't have an existing relationship with Sig and is thinking about adopting their pistols with everything going on? It's going to be really interesting to see how this cookie crumbles. |
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I was watching a video about Browning the other day... Apparently multiple designs he made had safety issues. But that was about a century ago. |
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Quoted: So you're saying we can expect a new post from them Quoted: Quoted: Highly doubt the goobers will post about it at all if they are smart. So you're saying we can expect a new post from them Attached File |
FTFY
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I think the "Sig Sauer GmBh" is to be read together, exempting the old German made P-series guns from the issue. 
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Quoted: SIG SAUER (@sigsauerinc) July 23, 2025 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwksWDbWkAAG3uX?format=jpg&name=large ETA: Two things I'm noting here... 1) "Air Force and Army" - that seems significant. 2) This is the first P320 post I think we've seen from an official Sig channel that wasn't arrogant bloviating. “We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. Military as they investigate the incident and remain willing to help in furtherance of their ongoing inquiry.” Translation: “we’re trying to put a guy on the inside of the investigation.” |
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GmbH is roughly equivalent to LLC, but in German. The meme is that German Sig didn't make guns that go off in holsters. It's a problem unique to American/Ron Cohen Sig. Sig Sauer GmbH gets to stay. |
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Quoted: GmbH is roughly equivalent to LLC, but in German. The meme is that German Sig didn't make guns that go off in holsters. It's a problem unique to American/Ron Cohen Sig. Sig Sauer GmbH gets to stay. I saw "GmbH" and thought "some of us understood the assignment", lol... |
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I'll take a little credit for this. I talked to Ken Campbell yesterday morning about their policy on the P320 or its variants. Ken told me there was a ban, with few exceptions, such as, that is their agency issued firearm, and in that case, they would discourage its use. I mentioned to him, that we were discussing banning P320's and all its variants from our ranges, and that our public firearms training center next to our ranges already had an outright ban as of June 2025. Edit: Not A Total Ban: Same Policy As Yesterday. Yesterday, it was decided we were going to ban them from our ranges and range classroom, and all of our employees will be told to not bring any P320 onto Town property, and that we discourage its use or carry when off duty. Agencies and organizations that use our ranges will also be notified. We don't get many Cops visiting our building who carry P320's or its variants, but if that P320 is their agency issued pistol, we won't refuse them access to our building, but we will discourage them from carrying their P320 into our building. Jay |
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Quoted: Maybe they'll post that they will ONLY be allowing P320s at their training classes. As well as demonstrated knowledge transfer reception of the criss-cross-applesauce technique. Anyone have an original reference for this? I keep seeing "criss cross applesauce" but I have no idea where it came from other than some general sense it emerged from the Gerbus group. |
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Quoted: Anyone have an original reference for this? I keep seeing "criss cross applesauce" but I have no idea where it came from other than some general sense it emerged from the Gerbus group. |
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Quoted: It was in their video they did defending the gun a few months ago after the Achilles Heel incident. Goober Actual said he needed to see a 4K HD video of one going off in a holster with the shooters hands not touching it, folded in their chest even, before he'd believe there was a problem with the gun. Ive been shooting pistols a lot of years. Been around a lot of pistol shooters. I have never, not once seen or heard of someone doing that. Not even a newb. |
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Quoted: Didnt they they also show a close up slo mo video of a guy on the range holstering a gun with his finger still in the trigger guard? Claiming it was a random video of a "professional" screwing up? The claim was it isnt the p320 its the shooter. Ive been shooting pistols a lot of years. Been around a lot of pistol shooters. I have never, not once seen or heard of someone doing that. Not even a newb.  Sig Sauer P320 Concerns and Jumping to Conclusions The finger on the trigger while reholstering is a thing but isnt a cause for all the 320 issues |