[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 15 of 142)
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Quoted: How are they non-drop safe? The only way a 1911 firing pin has the energy to set off a primer is if the muzzle lands on a concrete floor. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: AND NOW FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT... It may not have been Safariland. Safariland LE holsters. There have been some things I have stumbled on where it has been observed that the Safariland holsters have a gap due to weapon light holsters design and the "narrow" P320 trigger guard that makes it possible "foreign objects" can get into the holster. Such things as shirt tails, jacket drawstrings, etc. One case (that I cannot provide a link) where a School Resource Officer had a kid walk up and put their finger in that holster gap and the weapon discharged. (No one was injured.) Additionally, at Shot Show 2025 Safariland had a new LE holster that had a soft flexible edging at the holster what closed that area which was designed to prevent "foreign objects" from being dragged into the holster when holstering the pistol. So... this is beyond "it fires uncommanded" issue, which may or may not been corrected with the "voluntary upgrade" and it only has to do with the "I did not touch the pistol but it went bang"... I would say it would have prevented the school student from being to put their finger in the SRO's holster. It was Classic Firearms Shot Show coverage, interview by Erdal Kaya. I would not carry a pistol with no manual or trigger safety. I would never carry a Pistol with a manual safety. You are missing out. Loads of non drop safe 1911s and 2011s out there, that are awesome. To name a few. How are they non-drop safe? The only way a 1911 firing pin has the energy to set off a primer is if the muzzle lands on a concrete floor. Yeah I know, I don't care either... Have you not seen the many Staccato threads? Apparently Ben has trolled a bunch of morons into believing that's some huge issue. |
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Quoted: I don't think it works like that. I don't think there would be a limit to the number of times a FPB can catch a striker. They tend to be pretty solid parts thicker in diameter than the striker. Also, I think that depending upon the gun, there could very easily be a scenario where if the striker falls of the sear and rests on the FPB, and the trigger is subsequently pulled, the striker is released because the trigger bar moves the FPB. Whether or not this would dimple a primer or hit with enough force for ignition likely varies by the gun and the ammo, but that's how I'd expect it to work in a striker fired gun. The P320 firing pin block is a thin piece of sheet metal. Also, the striker is sprung such that it is at rest aft of the firing pin block. So if it hits the block, it then returns to a neutral position aft of it. |
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Quoted: The P320 firing pin block is a thin piece of sheet metal. Also, the striker is sprung such that it is at rest aft of the firing pin block. So if it hits the block, it then returns to a neutral position aft of it. Quoted: Quoted: I don't think it works like that. I don't think there would be a limit to the number of times a FPB can catch a striker. They tend to be pretty solid parts thicker in diameter than the striker. Also, I think that depending upon the gun, there could very easily be a scenario where if the striker falls of the sear and rests on the FPB, and the trigger is subsequently pulled, the striker is released because the trigger bar moves the FPB. Whether or not this would dimple a primer or hit with enough force for ignition likely varies by the gun and the ammo, but that's how I'd expect it to work in a striker fired gun. The P320 firing pin block is a thin piece of sheet metal. Also, the striker is sprung such that it is at rest aft of the firing pin block. So if it hits the block, it then returns to a neutral position aft of it. Interesting. I wonder how standard some of that is. |
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Quoted: Interesting. I wonder how standard some of that is. M&Ps as well as 365s are also fully cocked with spring-supported sears but they have more conventional striker blocks that 1) are chunkier plunger type pieces 2) are activated by the trigger bar and not by a series of levers So I think the P320s single biggest issue is an unconventional firing pin block. |
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Quoted: It's weird. The guns seem to go off on video without people touching them yet nobody can reproduce it. Even the guns that have gone off don't do it again when examined. The wrong holster/light bearing holster with giant opening theory makes the most logical sense but it doesn't seem to explain everything. Factually there have been a number of documented discharges but nobody can figure out exactly what happens. It's bizarre. I have heard this theory, but my question is why dont we hear of this happening with other handguns with WMLs in the same style of holster? |
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Quoted: I have heard this theory, but my question is why dont we hear of this happening with other handguns with WMLs in the same style of holster? Quoted: Quoted: It's weird. The guns seem to go off on video without people touching them yet nobody can reproduce it. Even the guns that have gone off don't do it again when examined. The wrong holster/light bearing holster with giant opening theory makes the most logical sense but it doesn't seem to explain everything. Factually there have been a number of documented discharges but nobody can figure out exactly what happens. It's bizarre. I have heard this theory, but my question is why dont we hear of this happening with other handguns with WMLs in the same style of holster? In a previous thread a member here posted pictures of his 320 w/ light and G17 w/ light in the correct Safariland holsters and the cut was much lower on the 320, when combined with the thinner trigger guard it allowed significantly more room to access the trigger. I think Safariland updated the 320 holster at some point. I don't know that this is the cause of ALL of the claims but it certainly seems plausible that it could be the cause for some of them. |
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Quoted: I don't think it works like that. I don't think there would be a limit to the number of times a FPB can catch a striker. They tend to be pretty solid parts thicker in diameter than the striker. Also, I think that depending upon the gun, there could very easily be a scenario where if the striker falls of the sear and rests on the FPB, and the trigger is subsequently pulled, the striker is released because the trigger bar moves the FPB. Whether or not this would dimple a primer or hit with enough force for ignition likely varies by the gun and the ammo, but that's how I'd expect it to work in a striker fired gun. Quoted: Quoted: Here's a thought. How do you know the firing pin block is working in your gun? That goes for any gun, not just a 320. Have you tested it by using a punch to push on the back of the firing pin or striker to see if it is stopped by the block? It seems like it would be super easy to check a 320 by removing the slide and manually retracting the striker and letting it go to hit the block. If the block stops it, you know it's working. It also seems like someone should test the number of times the block can catch the striker until it fails. Another question might be whether anyone has experienced a dead trigger with a 320. This would indicate the sear let go without a trigger pull, and the firing pin block worked. I don't think it works like that. I don't think there would be a limit to the number of times a FPB can catch a striker. They tend to be pretty solid parts thicker in diameter than the striker. Also, I think that depending upon the gun, there could very easily be a scenario where if the striker falls of the sear and rests on the FPB, and the trigger is subsequently pulled, the striker is released because the trigger bar moves the FPB. Whether or not this would dimple a primer or hit with enough force for ignition likely varies by the gun and the ammo, but that's how I'd expect it to work in a striker fired gun. There *shouldn't* be a limit to the number of times a striker can catch a firing pin. But I think it's worth testing. |
 The Sig fire continues to grow |
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Even though I’m not 100% convinced this is a pure mechanical problem, I think Sig’s only option is to kill the 320. I think there’s too much smoke around the model to recover from at this point. I don’t believe there is anything they could publish to “prove” it’s mechanically safe (assuming it is). The longer they wait the more it will damage the overall Sig brand. I’m sure that process is complicated with the military & LE contracts. I’m also sure the lawyers would try and twist it into some kind of admission of guilt….I’m not sure there is a clean path out for them at this point. |
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Quoted: You are missing out. Loads of non drop safe 1911s and 2011s out there, that are awesome. To name a few. Quoted: Quoted: I would never carry a Pistol with a manual safety. You are missing out. Loads of non drop safe 1911s and 2011s out there, that are awesome. To name a few. Well, he did say 'carry' and not 'own.' One could own a gun and not want to carry it. I have a gun I specifically bought to carry. It's not the best at anything, but it's the best carry gun for my purposes. If I had a 1911/2011, I wouldn't carry it, but I wouldn't mind owning a nice one. |
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Quoted: S&W got jokes https://x.com/smith_wessoninc/status/1899523547984204180 Honestly - M&P's are pretty unappreciated. They aren't really my favorite, but I have one that I use as a beater, and it runs pretty much anything. I can't get one to jam, and recoil is pretty pleasant. I use it to dispose of random shit and off-spec ammo. It runs it all just fine. |
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SIG continues to show good decision making skills. https://fox59.com/business/press-releases/cision/20250310NE37478/bagnell-law-firm-demands-retraction-from-sig-sauer-over-defamatory-p320-remarks/ |
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Attached File Quoted: SIG continues to show good decision making skills. https://fox59.com/business/press-releases/cision/20250310NE37478/bagnell-law-firm-demands-retraction-from-sig-sauer-over-defamatory-p320-remarks/ Attached File |
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Quoted: Buddy of mine messaged me yesterday, wanting to know if I would buy his Sig P320 Tacops with holster, 4 x 21rd mags, and 1 x 17rd mag for $600. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Sig_P320-3487540.jpg I responded back and asked will it fire while holstered? I don't have anyone I hate that much to recommend this gun to. That gun unironically will fire if dropped |
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Quoted: That gun unironically will fire if dropped Quoted: Quoted: Buddy of mine messaged me yesterday, wanting to know if I would buy his Sig P320 Tacops with holster, 4 x 21rd mags, and 1 x 17rd mag for $600. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Sig_P320-3487540.jpg I responded back and asked will it fire while holstered? I don't have anyone I hate that much to recommend this gun to. That gun unironically will fire if dropped Well it’s a 320, so.. |
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Quoted: Honestly - M&P's are pretty unappreciated. They aren't really my favorite, but I have one that I use as a beater, and it runs pretty much anything. I can't get one to jam, and recoil is pretty pleasant. I use it to dispose of random shit and off-spec ammo. It runs it all just fine. Quoted: Quoted: S&W got jokes https://x.com/smith_wessoninc/status/1899523547984204180 Honestly - M&P's are pretty unappreciated. They aren't really my favorite, but I have one that I use as a beater, and it runs pretty much anything. I can't get one to jam, and recoil is pretty pleasant. I use it to dispose of random shit and off-spec ammo. It runs it all just fine. Mine have been exemplary. |
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Quoted: Well it’s a 320, so.. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Buddy of mine messaged me yesterday, wanting to know if I would buy his Sig P320 Tacops with holster, 4 x 21rd mags, and 1 x 17rd mag for $600. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Sig_P320-3487540.jpg I responded back and asked will it fire while holstered? I don't have anyone I hate that much to recommend this gun to. That gun unironically will fire if dropped Well it’s a 320, so.. It's got the pre "voluntary upgrade" trigger @drobs  Sig Sauer P320 Fails Drop Test |
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His big build up is that Gray Guns couldn't get the P320 to fire without the trigger being acctuated. Then went on to say they are lieing because the Original trigger was not drop safe. Well to be clear the weight of the trigger was causing the is kinetic energy from the fall to ""ACCTUATE"" the trigger. So? Technically.they are correct |
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Quoted: I have zero respect for Bruce Gray, outside of gunsmithing. He's been caught shilling for bad products a few times. Agreed - I think he was one of the “Team Sig” members that was arguing up and down about Sig 320 safety during the first REAL drop safety issue back in the day. tHe SiG 320 iS sAfE |
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Quoted: Agreed - I think he was one of the “Team Sig” members that was arguing up and down about Sig 320 safety during the first REAL drop safety issue back in the day. tHe SiG 320 iS sAfE Quoted: Quoted: I have zero respect for Bruce Gray, outside of gunsmithing. He's been caught shilling for bad products a few times. Agreed - I think he was one of the “Team Sig” members that was arguing up and down about Sig 320 safety during the first REAL drop safety issue back in the day. tHe SiG 320 iS sAfE Ouch. brutal. Clicked and read what he wrote in at the time. Credibility retention storage cabinet. 
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Quoted: Even though I’m not 100% convinced this is a pure mechanical problem, I think Sig’s only option is to kill the 320. I think there’s too much smoke around the model to recover from at this point. I don’t believe there is anything they could publish to “prove” it’s mechanically safe (assuming it is). The longer they wait the more it will damage the overall Sig brand. I’m sure that process is complicated with the military & LE contracts. I’m also sure the lawyers would try and twist it into some kind of admission of guilt….I’m not sure there is a clean path out for them at this point. They own the sole sidearm contract for the entirety of regular DoD (outside of some small time specialized stuff). There’s a 0.0% chance they voluntarily kill the 320. |
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Quoted: Even though I’m not 100% convinced this is a pure mechanical problem, I think Sig’s only option is to kill the 320. I think there’s too much smoke around the model to recover from at this point. I don’t believe there is anything they could publish to “prove” it’s mechanically safe (assuming it is). The longer they wait the more it will damage the overall Sig brand. I’m sure that process is complicated with the military & LE contracts. I’m also sure the lawyers would try and twist it into some kind of admission of guilt….I’m not sure there is a clean path out for them at this point. Given the whole US military contract, doing so would likely bankrupt them. |
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Quoted: Given the whole US military contract, doing so would likely bankrupt them. What if they just kill off civilian sales? Blame it on engagement hacking grifters or something if you want to avoid saying it’s for technical difficulties. I think the only thing that will ultimately move this thing out of a stalemate is if the military does something that forces sig’s hand. The real question is if the military is going to prioritize saving face over the safety of their equipment. I have no military experience but I that seems like a tall order. |
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Quoted: Honestly - M&P's are pretty unappreciated. They aren't really my favorite, but I have one that I use as a beater, and it runs pretty much anything. I can't get one to jam, and recoil is pretty pleasant. I use it to dispose of random shit and off-spec ammo. It runs it all just fine. Quoted: Quoted: S&W got jokes https://x.com/smith_wessoninc/status/1899523547984204180 |
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Quoted: What if they just kill off civilian sales? Blame it on engagement hacking grifters or something if you want to avoid saying it’s for technical difficulties. I think the only thing that will ultimately move this thing out of a stalemate is if the military does something that forces sig’s hand. The real question is if the military is going to prioritize saving face over the safety of their equipment. I have no military experience but I that seems like a tall order. Quoted: Quoted: Given the whole US military contract, doing so would likely bankrupt them. What if they just kill off civilian sales? Blame it on engagement hacking grifters or something if you want to avoid saying it’s for technical difficulties. I think the only thing that will ultimately move this thing out of a stalemate is if the military does something that forces sig’s hand. The real question is if the military is going to prioritize saving face over the safety of their equipment. I have no military experience but I that seems like a tall order. The problem would have to become a lot more widespread before anything starts happening DoD wise, IMO. Simply put, even IF the problem can be attributed to mechanical failures, the occurrence rate is so low that it’s likely not much of a blip on the radar. As for civilian sales, why would they kill them off? Nothing has been conclusively proven. We can’t even get anywhere close to an agreement on a website filled with comparative firearm experts (to the general public) as to what the problem is, or if there even IS a problem. Sure, Sig’s settled a few lawsuits and it looks like maybe lost one (which I’m sure they’ll appeal). All in all, a proverbial drop in the bucket in comparison to the money they’re making off the platform. My prediction? Short of some bombshell report/finding that identifies/proves a no-shit root cause mechanical deficiency, we’ll likely see a slow move away from the P320 within the civilian LE realm, although I wouldn’t be shocked to still see some use. They’ll likely see commercial market sales taper off to some extent as well, but once again, I highly doubt those numbers will plummet to zero. Things will go on as normal with the occasional story/video of a 320 going off. How long was the Remington 700 on the market with a defective trigger design? Something like 50-60 years? Anyone sitting here thinking a firearm manufacturer is going to kill off one of their most profitable products over what can best be described as an “optics” issue (at least at this point) is smoking some really good shit. |
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Quoted: The problem would have to become a lot more widespread before anything starts happening DoD wise, IMO. Simply put, even IF the problem can be attributed to mechanical failures, the occurrence rate is so low that it’s likely not much of a blip on the radar. As for civilian sales, why would they kill them off? Nothing has been conclusively proven. We can’t even get anywhere close to an agreement on a website filled with comparative firearm experts (to the general public) as to what the problem is, or if there even IS a problem. Sure, Sig’s settled a few lawsuits and it looks like maybe lost one (which I’m sure they’ll appeal). All in all, a proverbial drop in the bucket in comparison to the money they’re making off the platform. My prediction? Short of some bombshell report/finding that identifies/proves a no-shit root cause mechanical deficiency, we’ll likely see a slow move away from the P320 within the civilian LE realm, although I wouldn’t be shocked to still see some use. They’ll likely see commercial market sales taper off to some extent as well, but once again, I highly doubt those numbers will plummet to zero. Things will go on as normal with the occasional story/video of a 320 going off. How long was the Remington 700 on the market with a defective trigger design? Something like 50-60 years? Anyone sitting here thinking a firearm manufacturer is going to kill off one of their most profitable products over what can best be described as an “optics” issue (at least at this point) is smoking some really good shit. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Given the whole US military contract, doing so would likely bankrupt them. What if they just kill off civilian sales? Blame it on engagement hacking grifters or something if you want to avoid saying it’s for technical difficulties. I think the only thing that will ultimately move this thing out of a stalemate is if the military does something that forces sig’s hand. The real question is if the military is going to prioritize saving face over the safety of their equipment. I have no military experience but I that seems like a tall order. The problem would have to become a lot more widespread before anything starts happening DoD wise, IMO. Simply put, even IF the problem can be attributed to mechanical failures, the occurrence rate is so low that it’s likely not much of a blip on the radar. As for civilian sales, why would they kill them off? Nothing has been conclusively proven. We can’t even get anywhere close to an agreement on a website filled with comparative firearm experts (to the general public) as to what the problem is, or if there even IS a problem. Sure, Sig’s settled a few lawsuits and it looks like maybe lost one (which I’m sure they’ll appeal). All in all, a proverbial drop in the bucket in comparison to the money they’re making off the platform. My prediction? Short of some bombshell report/finding that identifies/proves a no-shit root cause mechanical deficiency, we’ll likely see a slow move away from the P320 within the civilian LE realm, although I wouldn’t be shocked to still see some use. They’ll likely see commercial market sales taper off to some extent as well, but once again, I highly doubt those numbers will plummet to zero. Things will go on as normal with the occasional story/video of a 320 going off. How long was the Remington 700 on the market with a defective trigger design? Something like 50-60 years? Anyone sitting here thinking a firearm manufacturer is going to kill off one of their most profitable products over what can best be described as an “optics” issue (at least at this point) is smoking some really good shit. This pretty much mirrors my thoughts. Why would an agency select the 320 these days? There's half a dozen different alternate choices that are in widespread use, don't have major smoke around their reputation, have comparable duty gear options, and work just fine. Agencies will slowly start to move away from the 320. Sig will continue to deny that there's a problem. In another few years they'll announce a major platform upgrade/redesign, that quietly removes the issues inherent to the 320. Sig fans will continue to deny that there ever was a problem. The earth will continue spinning... |
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I would have to say as an adult I'm pretty much tired of all the QA/QC crap across the universe as you see it in so many industries and items. Pick your dozen donuts - Boeing, aerospace, Dodge (big 3) Pharmaceuticals, shoes - all are cutting corners for higher profits and CEO bonuses. It's beyond out of balance, and the excuses with acceptability are BS! Had a buddy just run his 365 AXG Legion thru 600 rounds. 350+ ish where at a 2 - day Gunsite offsite course. Mag release just broke during dry fire. Really? No matter how good your customer service responds, it doesn't matter, it shouldn't happen. I won't comment on the stacking issue as I'm not privy to the design specs or tolerances but the mfg should sure have clear answers. Transparency never hurt anyone who's ever been in a PR crisis in a professional capacity. Yesterday I grabbed multiple 320's and Glocks because I was curious. Sample of 4 or more of each. 2 AXGs, a legion and a specter comp vs Gens 2-3-4-5 Glocks. What stuck out to me about the trigger pull commentary and my prior post saying its a 1911 with the safety off or more precise a 2011 with the safety off and no grip safety. That's the narrative internally and externally. Glocks had shorter take up, hit the wall hard and broke like a femur. Easily 5.5# range from my finger test (no it's not scientific but if you shoot, you have a ballpark like visual speeding.) The reset was also shorter. Glock - you need your finger on that trigger as you already know. Doesn't move otherwise but I can't say the D-word  (No you swallow! lol.)One AXG in particular, pressed to the wall fast and easy. They all do way more the I recalled. It would hold the wall in the 4# range say 4.5# from my non scientific finger but a much softer break. And I could make it happen with more pressure from the side of the trigger. Not as easy as a finger on flat trigger but three quarters trigger/ side of the trigger, I can get you to the wall. Whether gamer to fighter, advance skillset is prepping that trigger on the draw stroke presentation to truly know your weapon before you decide to send it. I'm not talking single action here, I'm saying it prepped fast to the wall, ready to break. Imagine believiing you're trained on a striker gun and switching into this design. Then add things like how many rounds are departments training. Quarterly quals, bi-annual, annual? Even MP's for that matter. Personally, I was surprised the AF was not using the safety on a loaded round. But I'll bring that up later. Second part, the reset was longer than the Glocks. The reset on the specter comp was really long, think 3-Mississippi's for posting purposes and it seemed the dumbest one to be different as it's the most gaming style gun of the 4. I haven't pulled it apart to see why its so much longer then the other 3 as these were all custom shop guns vs plain PD contract runs. But how can it be that different from the other 3 using similar FCU's? I spent 45 minutes or more going thru the samples, notes, watching, listening, feeling the triggers, press to wall, wall, break, reset until I could say out-loud the behavior each pistols would trait knowing they all have slight variations. So the narrative is triggers being pressed: Airforce thigh holster bump, PD on belt over shoulder into door frame, lobby PD was wrestling with suspect etc. Well if I can get that trigger to the wall inside the holster thru movement how much more pressure do I need for an ND? It's the only story that has consistency. Then we have how many different models in the 320 line up and how many different holster types to fit a grip frame? Just focus on the M17/18 or Tacops style PD contract level as the majority of reports listed in the thread. Why is it not repeatable? every holster is in perfect condition? I know I searched for exact holsters to fit my frame, then my new frame, then my thumb rest on the sport take down lever, then my Surefire light 300 U Turbo etc etc. And I ate several holsters who claimed to have what I wanted but didn't meet my expectations or requirements. I know its not as much fun as pitchforks and piss poor social media releases but the perfect storm of a trigger movement toward the wall and holster designs brings a possibility of truth to a design flaw as part of a wholistic system. The safariland holster that pops up for the basic 320 didn't even exist a few years ago and it you've ever had to pay for dies for a new mold its neither cheap nor fast. Now add multiple product lines. Especially in this genre of weapon retention. I don't think I have "The Answer". But my observations, and my experience tell me, narratives happen for a reason inside a company based upon some truths. My thoughts also have the most commonality across the different cases: pistol jostle in holster, trigger creep, boom ND. My goal is not to change your opinion; haters want more pitchforks, supporters say not repeatable with neither likely swayed. Thanks to John_Wayne777 and other great posters for some of their insights. I get pissed off enough inside my own industry issues, let alone to see the same behaviors with lifesaving tools! Stay safe! |
| SIG has done a remarkably successful job of putting out a fire with gasoline. I think we're pretty much in agreement that this will not kill the 320 but police and civilian sales will be substantially affected. As others have said, there are competing designs that do not have these issues swirling around them and non-military users will simply choose a competitor. |
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Quoted: SIG has done a remarkably successful job of putting out a fire with gasoline. I think we're pretty much in agreement that this will not kill the 320 but police and civilian sales will be substantially affected. As others have said, there are competing designs that do not have these issues swirling around them and non-military users will simply choose a competitor. I don't think it will. Sig lovers will continue to use Sig. Sig haters will continue to not use Sig. |
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Quoted: SIG has done a remarkably successful job of putting out a fire with gasoline. I think we're pretty much in agreement that this will not kill the 320 but police and civilian sales will be substantially affected. As others have said, there are competing designs that do not have these issues swirling around them and non-military users will simply choose a competitor. Publicity. SIG has been echoing through the net since their post. It shows SIG's confidence in the platform. It's only good advertising. The kicker is no one can say for certainly what is happening. The only certain thing is, it is happening. What ever it is. Even if the P320 didn't have this "ISSUE". I love the X-Macro more than any other handgun so? |
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Quoted: I would have to say as an adult I'm pretty much tired of all the QA/QC crap across the universe as you see it in so many industries and items. Pick your dozen donuts - Boeing, aerospace, Dodge (big 3) Pharmaceuticals, shoes - all are cutting corners for higher profits and CEO bonuses. It's beyond out of balance, and the excuses with acceptability are BS! Had a buddy just run his 365 AXG Legion thru 600 rounds. 350+ ish where at a 2 - day Gunsite offsite course. Mag release just broke during dry fire. Really? No matter how good your customer service responds, it doesn't matter, it shouldn't happen. I won't comment on the stacking issue as I'm not privy to the design specs or tolerances but the mfg should sure have clear answers. Transparency never hurt anyone who's ever been in a PR crisis in a professional capacity. Yesterday I grabbed multiple 320's and Glocks because I was curious. Sample of 4 or more of each. 2 AXGs, a legion and a specter comp vs Gens 2-3-4-5 Glocks. What stuck out to me about the trigger pull commentary and my prior post saying its a 1911 with the safety off or more precise a 2011 with the safety off and no grip safety. That's the narrative internally and externally. Glocks had shorter take up, hit the wall hard and broke like a femur. Easily 5.5# range from my finger test (no it's not scientific but if you shoot, you have a ballpark like visual speeding.) The reset was also shorter. Glock - you need your finger on that trigger as you already know. Doesn't move otherwise but I can't say the D-word (No you swallow! lol.)One AXG in particular, pressed to the wall fast and easy. They all do way more the I recalled. It would hold the wall in the 4# range say 4.5# from my non scientific finger but a much softer break. And I could make it happen with more pressure from the side of the trigger. Not as easy as a finger on flat trigger but three quarters trigger/ side of the trigger, I can get you to the wall. Whether gamer to fighter, advance skillset is prepping that trigger on the draw stroke presentation to truly know your weapon before you decide to send it. I'm not talking single action here, I'm saying it prepped fast to the wall, ready to break. Imagine believiing you're trained on a striker gun and switching into this design. Then add things like how many rounds are departments training. Quarterly quals, bi-annual, annual? Even MP's for that matter. Personally, I was surprised the AF was not using the safety on a loaded round. But I'll bring that up later. Second part, the reset was longer than the Glocks. The reset on the specter comp was really long, think 3-Mississippi's for posting purposes and it seemed the dumbest one to be different as it's the most gaming style gun of the 4. I haven't pulled it apart to see why its so much longer then the other 3 as these were all custom shop guns vs plain PD contract runs. But how can it be that different from the other 3 using similar FCU's? I spent 45 minutes or more going thru the samples, notes, watching, listening, feeling the triggers, press to wall, wall, break, reset until I could say out-loud the behavior each pistols would trait knowing they all have slight variations. So the narrative is triggers being pressed: Airforce thigh holster bump, PD on belt over shoulder into door frame, lobby PD was wrestling with suspect etc. Well if I can get that trigger to the wall inside the holster thru movement how much more pressure do I need for an ND? It's the only story that has consistency. Then we have how many different models in the 320 line up and how many different holster types to fit a grip frame? Just focus on the M17/18 or Tacops style PD contract level as the majority of reports listed in the thread. Why is it not repeatable? every holster is in perfect condition? I know I searched for exact holsters to fit my frame, then my new frame, then my thumb rest on the sport take down lever, then my Surefire light 300 U Turbo etc etc. And I ate several holsters who claimed to have what I wanted but didn't meet my expectations or requirements. I know its not as much fun as pitchforks and piss poor social media releases but the perfect storm of a trigger movement toward the wall and holster designs brings a possibility of truth to a design flaw as part of a wholistic system. The safariland holster that pops up for the basic 320 didn't even exist a few years ago and it you've ever had to pay for dies for a new mold its neither cheap nor fast. Now add multiple product lines. Especially in this genre of weapon retention. I don't think I have "The Answer". But my observations, and my experience tell me, narratives happen for a reason inside a company based upon some truths. My thoughts also have the most commonality across the different cases: pistol jostle in holster, trigger creep, boom ND. My goal is not to change your opinion; haters want more pitchforks, supporters say not repeatable with neither likely swayed. Thanks to John_Wayne777 and other great posters for some of their insights. I get pissed off enough inside my own industry issues, let alone to see the same behaviors with lifesaving tools! Stay safe! I've usually found that if I shoot my P320 for a few strings then switch to the Glock, I'll often fail to pull the Glock trigger since I land high with the trigger finger and don't activate the blade safety. Just an anecdote, but pretty immediate feedback about effectiveness I guess. |
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Quoted: Quoted: It's a joke man. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/17974/1000023738_jpg-3488332.JPG What's the story behind that gun? |
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Sig lawyers: Due to the overwhelming amount anti 2A shills and Engagement Hacking Grifters, and standing firmly behind the fact that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the P320, we at Sig are reluctantly dropping the 100% safe P320 model and replacing it with our brand new P170. We implore you to ignore any slanderous Nazi drivel originating from Austria. Attached File |
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Quoted: Publicity. SIG has been echoing through the net since their post. It shows SIG's confidence in the platform. It's only good advertising. The kicker is no one can say for certainly what is happening. The only certain thing is, it is happening. What ever it is. Even if the P320 didn't have this "ISSUE". I love the X-Macro more than any other handgun so? Quoted: Quoted: SIG has done a remarkably successful job of putting out a fire with gasoline. I think we're pretty much in agreement that this will not kill the 320 but police and civilian sales will be substantially affected. As others have said, there are competing designs that do not have these issues swirling around them and non-military users will simply choose a competitor. Publicity. SIG has been echoing through the net since their post. It shows SIG's confidence in the platform. It's only good advertising. The kicker is no one can say for certainly what is happening. The only certain thing is, it is happening. What ever it is. Even if the P320 didn't have this "ISSUE". I love the X-Macro more than any other handgun so? lol The post reeks of desperation, and it puts giant spotlights on both the problem and the company's poor handling thereof. |
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Quoted: Sig lawyers: Due to the overwhelming amount anti 2A shills and Engagement Hacking Grifters, and standing firmly behind the fact that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the P320, we at Sig are reluctantly dropping the 100% safe P320 model and replacing it with our brand new P170. We implore you to ignore any slanderous Nazi drivel originating from Austria. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309598/IMG_1162_jpeg-3488336.JPG I mean, that's what Ruger did. Ruger had poor sales on the American, figgered if you can't beat em, join em, and introduced the Gluger. |
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Quoted: That gun unironically will fire if dropped Quoted: Quoted: Buddy of mine messaged me yesterday, wanting to know if I would buy his Sig P320 Tacops with holster, 4 x 21rd mags, and 1 x 17rd mag for $600. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Sig_P320-3487540.jpg I responded back and asked will it fire while holstered? I don't have anyone I hate that much to recommend this gun to. That gun unironically will fire if dropped CA has it approved as it passed the drop safe test 
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Quoted: What's the story behind that gun? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a joke man. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/17974/1000023738_jpg-3488332.JPG What's the story behind that gun? Detonation from a reload, I think was the original story. P320s have a rare issue with their barrels firing out of battery and blowing up, though. |