Quoted: Quoted: Dog, Simple logic has been wasted on you in the past,  let's try again, though I don't hold out much hope.   1.People see  specific guns used in crime. 2.People will  think  specific guns are bad.  People will not give a rat's ass whether the weapon nomenclature is incorrect. 3.People WILL see these specific guns as a problem and vote to take those same guns away from you  AGAIN.  AWB sound familiar? 4.Sticking your head in the sand will practically guarantee #3.  Where YOU want the focus is completely beside the point.  The people don't care. 5.  Want to keep your guns?  Admit that criminals with shooting off "Assault Weapons" in a quickee mart are a problem.   Want to place a bet?  How many of the witnesses or victims (or their friends and relatives) who never gave it a thought before,  thanks to this little incident are now anti-gun in general and  anti- "assault weapon" specifically? Prove me wrong on my previous opinion of you.  Show me you have a 5th grade comprehension level.   you're claiming that criminals without so called 'assault weapons' are somehow less problematic/dangerous than those with? remember, buddy, that cosmetic features have nothing to do with functionality. a remington 700 is just as deadly as an AR as an AK as a 1911.

 
I claimed nothing of the kind. You,  like dog,  read what you wanted to see.  YOU and I know the differences, (or lack of) between all those weapons.  It completely irrevelant.  The folks that are going to take all them away could not care less.

Criminals get guns because a vast majority of them are supplied by gun owners.   Either thru neglect, (leaving them unsecured) greed, (cash on the barrel is all I need) or downright stupidity  (Let's give my meth addict brother-in-law a shotgun).

Granted,  if someone jacks your safe thru the wall while you are at work, you are not at fault there,  but what about the guy that leaves a pistol on the front seat of his car?   In plain view on the nightstand when the carpet cleaners are in the house?  forgets his CHL piece on the toilet lid in a restroom?  (that happens a lot guys)

Ever sold a gun over the internet?  Ever sold a gun thru a newspaper ad?  To a guy in the parking lot at a gunshow?  What steps did you take to determine the trustworthiness of the buyer?  Can you even tell me what he looks like now?

You are a rare gun owner if you verify the receiver to the extent you should.

This is not a new problem.  It's always existed.  Now,  it involves the guns we collect and not just .38 revolvers.  

Quoted: you're claiming that criminals without so called 'assault weapons' are somehow less problematic/dangerous than those with? remember, buddy, that cosmetic features have nothing to do with functionality. a remington 700 is just as deadly as an AR as an AK as a 1911.

I would agree that a Remmy 700 is deadly (at longer distances) but in close ranges it will not stand up to an AK or an AR.

BigDozer66

Quoted: So now somehow this is our fault, thanks John. I understand you quite well. I also understand that the "justice"system and the government in this country is broken. I don't worry about soccer moms or other mythical figures taking away our guns. I worry about feds that spend 90 quadrillion dollars to put Martha Stewart away and leave rapists and child murderers alone. I worry about people like you that have stated that somehow it is our fault when something like this happens, or blame us for the incompetant  fucktards in public office that are trying to make sure that no one has a right to defend themselves. Taking an AK from me has nothing to do with crime, I am not robbing a quikie mart. Once again we have the feds looking at reducing the rights of citizens because of the actions of criminals. Thanks, but that song and dance doesn't play around here. As for your stories about criminals buying guns, I would be more than happy to rat some banger out, Do you know an agency that will not fuck me if I involve myself in such a matter? I don't and I am sure that everyone here can back me up in saying that and I am also positive that we could collect stories for days on people that have tried.

Actually,  dog. It IS the "soccer moms" who are going to take your guns away.  That and their "Soccer husbands"  and other "soccer voters" along with the "Soccer politicians".

Thats okay,  you can still bitch on an internet board and make up cute little "bunny" names to stoke your ego.  

No john, it is actually people in power that will do that. People like your chief of police, people like George W. Bush, People like Kay Bailey Granger and Laura Miller. People that have armed guards while telling me that people like you will protect me. We have gotten far beyond the ability to effectively choose our leaders. We only have the choice between bad and worse. And everytime we have a police chief stand up for something like  the AWB, we loose more. The power is on your side, your organization has the money, the guns and the PR. And when you and your organization says that I am the reason for crime, then obviously there is something wrong. Do you tell rape victims to dress more respectfully?

Quoted: I would take myself and two buddies armed with AK's against anyone on this board armed with a normal concealed carry pistol. Anybody that would willfully enter a gun fight while knowing that they are obviously out gunned is an idiot with a death wish. If the guys had started shooting then it's a whole 'nother ballgame. But personally, I'm not going to face a significant chance of great bodily harm or death to save Kroger's insurance company a little money.

I sure wouldn't want to go it alone against 3 guys with AK's, there would be little margin for error or a malfunction...

But I have seen some top IPSC/IDPA shooters that are more than likely fast and accurate enough to drop 3 armed men in close quarters if they had the element of surprise and a clear line of fire.

I agree, do something. Start shooting back.  Today it is robbing a grocery store, then carjacking, home invasion, rape, murder, etc.  By not shooting back, by not taking an active stand when you see a crime being committed, you're enabling it.

Quoted: No john, it is actually people in power that will do that. People like your chief of police, people like George W. Bush, People like Kay Bailey Granger and Laura Miller. People that have armed guards while telling me that people like you will protect me. We have gotten far beyond the ability to effectively choose our leaders. We only have the choice between bad and worse. And everytime we have a police chief stand up for something like  the AWB, we loose more. The power is on your side, your organization has the money, the guns and the PR. And when you and your organization says that I am the reason for crime, then obviously there is something wrong. Do you tell rape victims to dress more respectfully?

I don't tell anyone how to dress.  I DO on occasion tell people to bathe.  Now.  As far as the names you mentioned,  They will do what the public at large clamors for them to do.  it's called "Pandering to the masses".  

Unless they started shooting people, my gun would stay in the holster.   They are after the money.  Getting into a shootout with two perps armed with AKs is just plain stupid.  

Quoted: Quoted: One of our grocery stores ALWAYS has a police escort to the bank every night. CR It's not that uncommon for any corporation owned or larger businesses to have a police escort for the bank run. My buddy is a manager for a small Chili's restaraunt and they have police escort their bank runs and it isn't what I'd call a huge amount of money. We live in a time when people die over $10 or a pair of shoes, so it's cheaper to pay for an escort than to take the risk of having an employee injured or killed, or possibly running away with the money. It's all just business...

The one I'm referring to is dispatched over the radio.  It's not a paid escort.  And it's the only business in town that calls in the request.  It may not be a huge amount of money - I don't know.  All I know is they're the only ones that ask for it and they do it EVERY night.
CR

John somewhere you got this idea that people in office actually do what their voters tell them to do. Haven't you been keeping up with current events? Several recent public referendums have been overturned because the people in power decided that they knew better than 75% of the people. Laura MIller decided to penalize homeless people and charge them with theft of shopping carts...not real big on what her constituency wanted. GWB finally decided to do what ANN Richards would not--even though TEXANS wanted it--but gave us a horrendous charge for the right to carry.The whole TSA scandal is one big power grab. We could have followed the only nation on earth to have decent airline security and put armed gaurds on every plane. The AWB wasn't a popular thing, it was seen by people in power as a way to reduce the threats to their power. Power is a zero sum game. When the elected officials take it, we don't have it.

Quoted: Perhaps the reporter actually knows somethign about firearms.  Not everyone outside of ARFCOM is ignorant about weapons.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha*gasp*wheeze*hahahahahahahaha!

Thanks!  I needed a good laugh today!

*wipes laugh-tears from eyes*

Quoted: You are a rare gun owner if you verify the receiver to the extent you should.

And the government is at fault here.  Most of us are convinced that 4473s are a backdoor registration scheme.  Some states (I believe Michigan is one) even takes it further and requires that all transfers be brought to the police for a "safety inspection" where they record the serial number.  

I would be happy to run an NICS check on a transfer if it was made available to me in a simple method.  

As it stands, the best I can do without creating a paper trail that leads to 4473s and FFL fees is check the guys DL to make sure he's from instate, and ask him to sign a receipt stating he's not a felon (protecting me more than the general public).  

I will take down someone's CCW info if I happen to sell a gun to a CCW holder (and they're willing to surrender that information) but that's as far as the gov't has made it easy for me to go.