Real or fake? (Pic) - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Real or fake? (Pic) (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:48:44 AM EDT

[#1]

Oh Nooo! It's a Ghost Deer!

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:53:34 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:53:38 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My vote is fake - the pose of the deer looks more like it came from a photo of a deer lying on the ground, and not a deer in motion.

Have you ever shot a deer? Animals move in funny ways when they get shot.
Also what set off the camera? The deer tail to the far right? The deer muscle is also very prominent. Not a dead at lifeless relaxed animal.

Not with an arrow I haven't

, but I do know and agree about the freaky ways that deer can move when shot/startled/shocked. I considered that, but my vote/guess is still fake.

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:56:23 AM EDT

[#4]

Just tested it with software - It's 99% most likely real.

There is nothing cloned or superimposed in that picture( at least with any normal jpg compression), because there are no double compression artifacts or cloned sections. I highly doubt someone would have two RAW images that they shopped together then converted, so I'm going with real.

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:56:37 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My vote is fake - the pose of the deer looks more like it came from a photo of a deer lying on the ground, and not a deer in motion.

Have you ever shot a deer? Animals move in funny ways when they get shot.
Also what set off the camera? The deer tail to the far right? The deer muscle is also very prominent. Not a dead at lifeless relaxed animal.

Not with an arrow I haven't

, but I do know and agree about the freaky ways that deer can move when shot/startled/shocked. I considered that, but my vote/guess is still fake.

Is there anyway we can know for certain? Or is this thread just going to be bunch of us jabbering back and forth about who's right and who's wrong?

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:57:29 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Just tested it with software - It's 99% most likely real.

There is nothing cloned or superimposed in that picture( at least with any normal jpg compression), because there are no double compression artifacts or cloned sections. I highly doubt someone would have two RAW images that they shopped together then converted, so I'm going with real.

For those of us that dont work for geek squad?

Posted: 10/17/2008 7:58:10 AM EDT

[#7]

What I did is probably as close as you'll probably ever come without actually having seen it yourself, or asking the person that shot it.

ETA: basically when you photoshop jpg images, the original image is compressed, and what you're shopping it into is compressed. Software can detect subtle changes in compression artifacts and separate the two parts, if there are any. It can also look for cloned sections of the photo that indicate that someone cleaned up or smoothed it out behind themselves.

This image has none of those telltale signs.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:08:28 AM EDT

[#8]

Real, the slight imperfections in the photo, like the apparent transparency are caused by the flash being slightly out of sync with the lens. Its pretty common for a deer to jump like that when they are hit, no matter if its a bullet or an arrow, its a fight or flight reflex.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:09:13 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
arrow stopped because it hit the off side leg/shoulder bone. you can even see where it hit because on the opposite side of the deer, in line with the leg and belly line, more blood is coming out. i say again, real.

Too much arrow showing...........

Looks to me like the arrow hit the off shoulder and came back.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:10:42 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
...Or is this thread just going to be bunch of us jabbering back and forth about who's right and who's wrong?

In proud ARFCOM tradition, I'm guessing it'll be that!

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:12:19 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

Not saying you're wrong or that it couldn't happen, but with what kind of draw weight? The weakest bow I've ever shot a deer with was 55# and it would split a scapula clean.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:12:22 AM EDT

[#12]

NEVER underestimate the power of "HOVER DEER"

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:12:42 AM EDT

[#13]

I'm guessing fake - and if it was taken in TN, it's also illegal.

Where was the photo taken?

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:13:33 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I understand the exposure issue making the animal appear transparent on game cameras, but I think it's fake because of the position. It looks to me like a someone took a pic of a dead animal on the ground and superimposed it, giving it the transparent look of a game camera.

I'm no CSI but the blood appears to be gushing.

As in, at that moment. Not a picture of dried blood, taken later.

That's my take as well. That blood is gushing, not dried.

It looks dried to me because there are some light spots in the pool area just behind the arrow. I would think it would be covered better if blood were gushing. Also, the whole position of the body, and the ears, look like a dead animal on the ground to me.

The ears do look a little weird to me, but I've seen a buck tuck its ears as it jumped a fence before.

IMO, the legs look more questionable to me than anything, but it could just be at the beginning of the jump, before its tucked the rear legs forward.

Others have mentioned the transparency, but if it really was a fake, I probably could have made that look more realistic using GIMP, and not had to use any transparency.

IMO, the transparency calls attention to the photo, something a faker would be reticent to do.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:23:36 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I'm guessing fake - and if it was taken in TN, it's also illegal.

Where was the photo taken?

I have no idea where the picture was taken. Like I said, someone just sent it to me. And yes I know, baiting is illegal in TN.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:24:51 AM EDT

[#16]

Normally I stay out of GD, but have to chime in on this.

Absolutely fake.

Photography 101:

Fast shutter speed can effectively "freeze" a moving subject. Slow shutter speed creates blur and trailing when taking a picture of a moving subject. You can't have both shutter speeds in 1 image without some fakery (Photoshop, superimposition, etc).

Slow shutter speed could explain the "ghosting" of the background through the deer however it is impossible to freeze a moving subject at such a slow speed. If the deer were jumping after being shot, and the camera went off with a slow enough shutter to ghost the background, there would absolutely have to be some motion blur, there isn't any, the deer is crisp and static. If the speed was fast enough to freeze the deer, there would be no ghosting.

--DPMS Web Guy

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:28:08 AM EDT

[#17]

Blood on right front leg!

Fake!!!

How would there be blood on that leg before the arrow even exits?!?!?!?

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:33:10 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Photography 101:

Photography 102:

Strobes!

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:34:35 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

Not saying you're wrong or that it couldn't happen, but with what kind of draw weight? The weakest bow I've ever shot a deer with was 55# and it would split a scapula clean.

Std 60-70 lb compounds, with a std 400 gr on up arrows...plently of pop. Will probably have better luck with a cut on contact 2 blade, but most people use a Thunderhead/muzzy-type BH anyway. Ask on the bow-hunting portion of ARFCOM...

You might be alright with hitting in a certain place or 2 with a cut-on-contact in the scapula, I think the worst part is near the ball & knuckle...However, after looking at this picture again, it looks like the arrow hit the OTHER SIDE shoulder and "bounced back" or was maybe yanked out by the deer right beforehand or something...look for a little blood in the right-hand side "armpit"

Arrow is in the wrong place("I think") in the pic to hit the bad part of the left hand shoulder anyway...too far back

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:34:38 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Fake, too transparent in the back region.

This

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:36:41 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
no way

How can the deer's back be transparent enough to see the trees through it?
I don't think that's due to shutter speed.

Looks like the picture was composited from a photo of the deer laying down after it was shot and then pasted on a background of trees to make it look as though either the deer jumped after it was shot or in mid air. Maybe the compositor of this did take the time to make sure there was some shadow on the trees in the background from the flash.

The blood doesn't make sense. If it's spurting out - it has no 'blur', if it's flat on the deer - why (especially if this is supposed to be a mid-air shot)?

I'd take a closer look at the whole thing but at a glance it looks like a chop.

And I suppose the shooter took the pic too.

was going to say the same thing, great post

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:39:15 AM EDT

[#22]

Weird, I just received the same image without the transparency in my email. Looks like someone forgot to fix the transparency on their first attempt... still fake.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:39:50 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Oh Nooo! It's a Ghost Deer!

Gonna need a proton pack to get this one.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:42:23 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

That arrow is not in the 'shoulder'.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:43:46 AM EDT

[#25]

it's real fake

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:44:17 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
folder.by/hypnotoad.gif img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/APSU/Trailcampic.jpg

This explains why it froze in mid-air.

I don't understand your post at all. It doesn't explALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:44:33 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Weird, I just received the same image without the transparency in my email. Looks like someone forgot to fix the transparency on their first attempt... still fake.

i170.photobucket.com/albums/u277/dpmsinc/cdy.jpg

Interesting

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:47:05 AM EDT

[#28]

muscles are flexed, a dead deer does not show this, they are relaxed when dead

tis real

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:50:32 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

That arrow is not in the 'shoulder'.

Should have clarified, not necessarily talking about specific picture, see couple posts above...just the quote about arrows always going all the way thru...

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:51:44 AM EDT

[#30]

I vote rake....uhhhh freal?

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:53:11 AM EDT

[#31]

Not real.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:53:37 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

That arrow is not in the 'shoulder'.

Should have clarified, not necessarily talking about specific picture, see couple posts above...just the quote about arrows always going all the way thru...

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:55:53 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've never shot a deer with a bow where the arrow didn't go all the way through. What kind of wimpy bow would you have to shoot to get only 3-4" of penetration (at most) like that, unless maybe the arrow glanced off a tree or something (I'd expect a wierd penetration angle in that case)?

ETA: Transparent back, wierd droopy ears... looks like a doctored shot of a dead deer superimposed on a game-cam pic to me.

You pop the right spot in the shoulder, and there are A LOT of bow/arrow combos that are stopping RIGHT THERE...3-4 in of penetration max...have seen it a few times before.

That arrow is not in the 'shoulder'.

Should have clarified, not necessarily talking about specific picture, see couple posts above...just the quote about arrows always going all the way thru...

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:56:09 AM EDT

[#34]

Looks real to me.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:57:13 AM EDT

[#35]

A word on deer and arrows:

No, the guy didn't hit the deer in the near shoulder - but it's entirely possible that he hit the off shoulder on the way out, causing the arrow to stop and bounce back, leaving the shaft embedded in the deer, explaining the blood under the far armpit, and yes, even fast bows with sharp broadheads will sometimes do that. I've shot through the thin part of a deer shoulder before, but it's not the optimum spot to hit. The thicker part, lower on the shoulder blade, is quite tough, especially if hit by a broadhead that has been dulled by its passage through a couple of ribs and whatnot.

Posted: 10/17/2008 8:58:16 AM EDT

[#36]

Did I miss it or did nobody notice the dear in the back left running away? It's partially transparent also... Also I have seen jump like that when shot in the heart or in the general area of. I vote real.

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:04:06 AM EDT

[#37]

I have never failed to hit a deer in the heart/lung region that the arrow didn't pass all the way through the animal.
Looks like more blood on the right leg and right hoof making a pass through shot more likely.

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:05:25 AM EDT

[#38]

Real The dear was shot from a tree stand positioned above the game cam. If you look closer at the photo the arrow is still traveling thought the body and starting to come out by the right front leg. It just pierced the hide and you can see some blood coming out already. Also the pile of bait and angle the arrow is traveling tells me that it was shot from a stand.

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:07:27 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
A word on deer and arrows:

No, the guy didn't hit the deer in the near shoulder - but it's entirely possible that he hit the off shoulder on the way out, causing the arrow to stop and bounce back, leaving the shaft embedded in the deer, explaining the blood under the far armpit, and yes, even fast bows with sharp broadheads will sometimes do that. I've shot through the thin part of a deer shoulder before, but it's not the optimum spot to hit. The thicker part, lower on the shoulder blade, is quite tough, especially if hit by a broadhead that has been dulled by its passage through a couple of ribs and whatnot.

Look at the angle of the arrow. The only way blood would be present on the off side is if the arrow made an exit wound, negating the 'bounce back'. If it made an exit wound, and there is nothing to make it 'bounce back', why is so much shaft showing?

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:12:38 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Fake.

Yes again.

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:12:43 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Real The dear was shot from a tree stand positioned above the game cam. If you look closer at the photo the arrow is still traveling thought the body and starting to come out by the right front leg. It just pierced the hide and you can see some blood coming out already. Also the pile of bait and angle the arrow is traveling tells me that it was shot from a stand.

Mighty slow arrow for that to happen.......................

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:23:38 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A word on deer and arrows:

No, the guy didn't hit the deer in the near shoulder - but it's entirely possible that he hit the off shoulder on the way out, causing the arrow to stop and bounce back, leaving the shaft embedded in the deer, explaining the blood under the far armpit, and yes, even fast bows with sharp broadheads will sometimes do that. I've shot through the thin part of a deer shoulder before, but it's not the optimum spot to hit. The thicker part, lower on the shoulder blade, is quite tough, especially if hit by a broadhead that has been dulled by its passage through a couple of ribs and whatnot.

Look at the angle of the arrow. The only way blood would be present on the off side is if the arrow made an exit wound, negating the 'bounce back'. If it made an exit wound, and there is nothing to make it 'bounce back', why is so much shaft showing?

Look closely under the armpits of the next deer your shoot. If you go through at the right angle, it's entirely possible for the arrow to exit the chest cavity, exit the skin, and re-enter the skin a quarter-inch further along its path, before hitting the shoulder/leg bone.

If you don't have a dead deer handy to observe this with, try this:

Hold your left arm up. with the fingers of your right hand extended flat, place your right hand under your left arm, in the pit, and fold your left arm back to a resting position. You'll observe that part of your hand is surrounded on both sides by your skin - one side is arm skin, the other is chest skin. An arrow placed through your hand in that area (from the right side) would indeed exit the chest, causing bleeding, before re-entering the arm, where it could (theoretically) bounce back off the bone it encountered.

As a matter of fact, I did this very thing with the last deer I killed - a 6.8 SPC kill, by the way - but the bullet didn't bounce, of course.

Another word on the 'bounce back' thing: It appears that the front of the arrow is almost through the deer's chest - that's probably normal for a bounce-back situation. It's possible for the arrow to bounce far enough that it eventually falls out of the entrance side, but if it bounced back through the armpit, I doubt it would go much further back than what the photo reflects.

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:44:11 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Real The dear was shot from a tree stand positioned above the game cam. If you look closer at the photo the arrow is still traveling thought the body and starting to come out by the right front leg. It just pierced the hide and you can see some blood coming out already. Also the pile of bait and angle the arrow is traveling tells me that it was shot from a stand.

So he shot it while it was jumping in mid air? Deer can jump fast, but not that fast, can they?

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:52:30 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Real The dear was shot from a tree stand positioned above the game cam. If you look closer at the photo the arrow is still traveling thought the body and starting to come out by the right front leg. It just pierced the hide and you can see some blood coming out already. Also the pile of bait and angle the arrow is traveling tells me that it was shot from a stand.

So he shot it while it was jumping in mid air? Deer can jump fast, but not that fast, can they?

Some people refer to it as jumping an arrow, but it is actually when a deer jumps at the sound of the string. I have read conflicting stuff on this, but I believe a deer that jumps at the sound of a string letting loose will cause the arrow to go under. Deer have also been know to squat at the sound, thus the arrow travels over.

Posted: 10/17/2008 9:57:51 AM EDT

[#45]

It's real and 2/3's of that arrow is in the deer.

Posted: 10/17/2008 10:07:48 AM EDT

[#46]

It's real. I knew those deer hid in the trees, but I never had any proof until now.

NR, actually it's photoshoped, tell your your buddy to increase Opacity on the deer layer to create the desired effect.

Posted: 10/17/2008 10:17:08 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Real The dear was shot from a tree stand positioned above the game cam. If you look closer at the photo the arrow is still traveling thought the body and starting to come out by the right front leg. It just pierced the hide and you can see some blood coming out already. Also the pile of bait and angle the arrow is traveling tells me that it was shot from a stand.

So he shot it while it was jumping in mid air? Deer can jump fast, but not that fast, can they?

Some people refer to it as jumping an arrow, but it is actually when a deer jumps at the sound of the string. I have read conflicting stuff on this, but I believe a deer that jumps at the sound of a string letting loose will cause the arrow to go under. Deer have also been know to squat at the sound, thus the arrow travels over.

I know about that part, but for the guy to hit it there (at the same time its in the air), he would have to have been aiming 2 ft over its back when it was standing there...that's why I say the arrow is not still moving thru.

The deer squat at the sound b/c they are getting ready to jump..."you have to go down to go up" kinda thing...most ppl will tell you to aim a little low if you think that is a good possibility.

Posted: 10/17/2008 10:18:47 AM EDT

[#48]

compare the two photos and look at the white tree bark under the rear leg. Some type of editing is happening here.

Posted: 10/17/2008 10:19:27 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
no way

How can the deer's back be transparent enough to see the trees through it?
I don't think that's due to shutter speed.

Looks like the picture was composited from a photo of the deer laying down after it was shot and then pasted on a background of trees to make it look as though either the deer jumped after it was shot or in mid air. Maybe the compositor of this did take the time to make sure there was some shadow on the trees in the background from the flash.

The blood doesn't make sense. If it's spurting out - it has no 'blur', if it's flat on the deer - why (especially if this is supposed to be a mid-air shot)?

I'd take a closer look at the whole thing but at a glance it looks like a chop.

Yep.

Posted: 10/17/2008 10:21:12 AM EDT

[#50]

real

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Real or fake? (Pic) (Page 2 of 3)

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