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Posted: 3/19/2019 10:44:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many lives have actually been saved by RATS tourniquets? No comparison to the CAT. I still prefer the SOF-T. 
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Posted: 3/19/2019 10:45:06 PM EDT
[#2]
which one looks cooler?
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Posted: 3/19/2019 10:46:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get a CAT Tq pulled down very small. For back up on Peds we carry SWAT-Ts. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/75521/RATS_TQ_jpg-883903.JPG 20 
Just because something is widely issued doesn't mean it's good. |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 10:51:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL RATS is a joke to many people. Maybe, maybe for pediatric cases...but even then... Since this will inevitably turn into a tourniquet thread and the associated dick measuring contest, has anyone used the TMT? It’s one of the ones that I haven’t gotten my hands on yet but just learned about them... |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 10:53:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have one but havent used it. upon inspection its like a softt-w made with the same material cats are, meaning plastic. Its footprint is bigger than a sofft-w in my opinion. the sofft-w is clearly better in quality compared to the tmt. I feel like i would break the tmt if i practiced with it a few times |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 11:03:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, you aren’t supposed to use any CAT that you trained with either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have one but havent used it. upon inspection its like a softt-w made with the same material cats are, meaning plastic. Its footprint is bigger than a sofft-w in my opinion. the sofft-w is clearly better in quality compared to the tmt. I feel like i would break the tmt if i practiced with it a few times |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 11:14:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've had some where I thought the windlass was going to break. No way I'd use one I tightened like that in training on someone who needed one. Not to mention that if you tighten them that much, it gets super hurty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one but havent used it. upon inspection its like a softt-w made with the same material cats are, meaning plastic. Its footprint is bigger than a sofft-w in my opinion. the sofft-w is clearly better in quality compared to the tmt. I feel like i would break the tmt if i practiced with it a few times I have a RATS somewhere I bought to use as a demo when teaching, when people actually get hands on with a RATS vs a CAT or SOFTT-W they realize, on their own I might add, that the RATS is absolute garbage. ETA: it's on my portable projector screen. I used it as a bungee so the legs won't rattle, it's actually pretty good for that. |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 11:17:36 PM EDT
[#8]
I don't know one single person that carries a RATS with them on patrol.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 12:03:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't care. Jeff Kirkham is a good guy. Former SF too. Don't blame him for pimping his product. I think I'll buy a couple of RATS for my bag. 
1. SF guys can be shitbirds, too. 2. The evidence thus far presented indicates that he may have a significant integrity problem. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 12:11:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go check out the Readyman YT channel, watch some videos, then come back and tell me he's not a good guy. Check out the TwistRate channel too while you're at it. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 12:22:49 AM EDT
[#11]
I’m not familiar with either, and I also realize this is an apples to oranges comparison, but in the OR our tourniquets are always at least 3-4” wide. Granted, they are pneumatic, but the tissue injury is much less and the amount of time the tourniquet can be “up” is 2 hours without contraindications with regards to tissue ischemia or nerve damage. I will inflate my thigh tourniquets to 350mmHg for 2 continuous hours without second thought. In my mind, wider is better, so long as sufficient compression can be achieved and will allow for longer tourniquet time before having to release pressure. Also, no matter what, tourniquet pain will occur, but distributing that pressure over a greater surface area will allow for longer compression before the pain becomes too great.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 12:25:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? Sent me this article today: https://www.funker530.com/military-tourniquets/?fbclid=IwAR2ru0H2wPCUeSkj7DN_MaqAW0C6cY8bvY7XyNT38OPpcyquWA_lufzE17o Said, “Some problems with the study but good things to consider when packing tourniquets. I always keep two styles.” The CAT and SWAT-T Said the same thing about windlass breaking in older ones and the lack of people getting them tighter. Plus what Footdoc said above. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 12:48:52 AM EDT
[#13]
No one likes a fucking rat!
I don’t care who this guy used to be, but now he is someone putting people at risk by pimping garbage and also talking shit about proven devices. Fuck him. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:01:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not an expert, but here goes... RATS applies pressure over a very narrow area (the width of the string) and relies on the user to correctly stack it and apply enough force while wrapping it around the limb to spread the pressure out over the artery and stop bleeding. The CAT and SOFTT both apply pressure over a much wider area (the width of the strap) which is better for both occlusion of blood flow and preventing nerve and tissue damage. They also don't require the user to wrap them around the limb numerous times, decreasing the chance of making a mistake when putting it on. They're faster and easier to use correctly, which is what you want when seconds count. @Exp44 |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:07:20 AM EDT
[#15]
I have two saves with CAT tourniquets, one full amputation from a chainsaw and another gunshot wound to the femoral artery.
I carry one daily off duty and one on my duty belt. I trust them with my life and those I love. The medical guys who trained me who are some of the best in the country say that RATs are junk. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:18:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Fuck that guy.
CATs work. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:21:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My ER doc buddy uses SWAT-Ts in his personal kits for small children. Sent me this article today: https://www.funker530.com/military-tourniquets/?fbclid=IwAR2ru0H2wPCUeSkj7DN_MaqAW0C6cY8bvY7XyNT38OPpcyquWA_lufzE17o Said, “Some problems with the study but good things to consider when packing tourniquets. I always keep two styles.” The CAT and SWAT-T Said the same thing about windlass breaking in older ones and the lack of people getting them tighter. Plus what Footdoc said above. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:22:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Cat style TQ's for the win.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:24:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:25:56 AM EDT
[#20]
My best shooting bud is an ER doc who spent 13 years as a life flight paramedic before going to med school.
He chose the CAT to put in my blow out kit and his. I’ll stick with that over what some ass on YouTube pimps while trashing his competition. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:26:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference between the 2? Is the rats junk or is the cat just better? Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:31:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get a CAT Tq pulled down very small. For back up on Peds we carry SWAT-Ts. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/75521/RATS_TQ_jpg-883903.JPG 20 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/75521/RATS_TQ_jpg-883903.JPG 20 |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:43:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:53:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. Quote HistoryQuoted: You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. OBJECTIVES: Previously, we reported on the use of emergency tourniquets to stop bleeding in war casualties, but virtually all the data were from adults. Because no pediatric-specific cohort of casualties receiving emergency tourniquets existed, we aimed to fill knowledge gaps on the care and outcomes of this group by surveying data from a trauma registry to refine device designs and clinical training.
METHODS: A retrospective review of data from a trauma registry yielded an observational cohort of 88 pediatric casualties at US military hospitals in theater on whom tourniquets were used from May 17, 2003, to December 25, 2009. CONCLUSIONS: The survival rate of the present study's casualties is similar to that of 3 recent large nonpediatric-specific studies. Although current emergency tourniquets were ostensibly designed for modern adult soldiers, tourniquet makers, perhaps unknowingly, produced tourniquets that fit children. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:55:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same here, plus the SWAT-T is great for compression bandages. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 1:56:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 2:00:58 AM EDT
[#27]
I think the issue of TQ's on small kids is over blown. If you need to TQ a kid, just grab a few rolls of gauze and shove it under the TQ before you tighten it.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 2:05:44 AM EDT
[#28]
My thoughts,
Rat is junk compared to others. If I get that fucked up, I can makes rats on the spot with a hank of paracord and an improvised windlass. Swat t. I have some but they do not do enough to earn a spot in my main bags. They are slippery when bloody and hard to manage as well as the the tuck to secure doesn’t work that well when wet either. If a kid has tiny arms too small for a cat or SOF, I can put a roll gauze or a muslin bandage against the arm before I crank down. I do have space for those in my kits because they have multiple uses, including making one type of TQ work on everything. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 2:06:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the issue of TQ's on small kids is over blown. If you need to TQ a kid, just grab a few rolls of gauze and shove it under the TQ before you tighten it. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:48:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:32:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SOF-T Tourniquet is a windlass tourniquet. Cat and sof-t are similar and have a windlass. The original sof-t had a thinner band and the newer generation is often referred to as SOF-t-w (wide) Every time they upgrade the name changes a bit. SOF-tt, SOF tt-w, now generation 4... CAT tq’s just up the number on their generations. Rat is a shoestring and the swat-t is the big rubber band. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:41:11 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used a CAT from my IFAK on a motorcycle rider who was T-boned and had his lower right leg damn-near traumatically amputated. His wife said the med flight guys told her it saved his life. ETA, I used a SOFFT T... |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:42:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SOF-T Tourniquet is a windlass tourniquet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:42:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. OBJECTIVES: Previously, we reported on the use of emergency tourniquets to stop bleeding in war casualties, but virtually all the data were from adults. Because no pediatric-specific cohort of casualties receiving emergency tourniquets existed, we aimed to fill knowledge gaps on the care and outcomes of this group by surveying data from a trauma registry to refine device designs and clinical training.
METHODS: A retrospective review of data from a trauma registry yielded an observational cohort of 88 pediatric casualties at US military hospitals in theater on whom tourniquets were used from May 17, 2003, to December 25, 2009. CONCLUSIONS: The survival rate of the present study's casualties is similar to that of 3 recent large nonpediatric-specific studies. Although current emergency tourniquets were ostensibly designed for modern adult soldiers, tourniquet makers, perhaps unknowingly, produced tourniquets that fit children. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:44:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't care. Jeff Kirkham is a good guy. Former SF too. Don't blame him for pimping his product. I think I'll buy a couple of RATS for my bag.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:44:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll remember this when my platoon of 6 year olds go to combat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 5:20:40 AM EDT
[#37]
I don’t know what to tell you other than try again. I have skinny bitch fingers, and hopefully this teaches something because jacking my knuckles together really fucking hurt.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 5:27:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL RATS is a joke to many people. Maybe, maybe for pediatric cases...but even then... Since this will inevitably turn into a tourniquet thread and the associated dick measuring contest, has anyone used the TMT? It’s one of the ones that I haven’t gotten my hands on yet but just learned about them... |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 5:34:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TK4L is the only non-windlass TK I’ll use or recommend to students. It actually works when applied correctly, and it can be done with one hand. Carry a CAT or a SOF-T anytime you can. Carry a TK4L when you can’t Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is the RATS better than TK4L? Carry a CAT or a SOF-T anytime you can. Carry a TK4L when you can’t |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:03:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you guys think of the swat t once it gets bloody? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Same here, plus the SWAT-T is great for compression bandages. Better than nothing, but that’s about all I can say about it. TK4L works better, carries smaller, and is more reliable. ALWAYS use a proven windlass type TK first if possible. I have used the SOF-T multiple times with success. They WORK CAT is proven too, I just don’t have first hand experience with it on actual casualties |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:05:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Best place/deal on genuine CAT?
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:07:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best place/deal on genuine CAT? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:10:26 AM EDT
[#43]
There’s some in the EE right now, about 10 bucks off retail.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/NAR-Gen-7-CAT-tourniquets/126-1861713/ |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:36:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:37:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Used cats multiple times in the real world.....never even gave a rat a look
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:49:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
550 cord and M16 or M4 cleaning kit rod 
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Posted: 3/20/2019 7:32:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best place/deal on genuine CAT? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 7:41:05 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
550 cord and M16 or M4 cleaning kit rod Gun people should learn to use a CAT or SOFTW, a Pressure Bandage (Israeli Bandage or OLAES), an Occlusive Dressing (Hyfin or petrolatum gauze and tape), and a Nasopharyngeal Airway(NPA). Add a space blanket and pouch and you have a proper trauma kit. There are many Youtube videos explaining how to use them. It's simple and you don't have to take a class, but that is still recommended. These items should be in your range bag and another set in your car and another in your house. CAT or SOFTW - $30 Israeli Bandage - $8 NPA - $6 space blanket - $6 Hyfin twin pack - $16 |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 9:12:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can tell most of the haters have never researched kid injuries or actually used them on kids. The RAT and SOF T are the best for young kids where the windless ones are to large. For adults the windless ones are far superior. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what’s the best tq for 6 year old girl limbs? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 9:18:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference between the 2? Is the rats junk or is the cat just better? Thanks. |
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