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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:10:59 AM EDT
[#1]
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg You talk about how awesome piston driven ar's are, and then post an airsoft gun with a cord hanging out. Fail.  
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:11:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Op forgot to mention to pinnacle of bolt on CAR/M4 douchefuckery. The collapsing AAAAAND folding CAR.
-1 for a score of 9/10. Honestly, I hear you. Its beyond ridiclous. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:11:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Why do you care what people do to their guns?
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:12:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Now I will agree that M4 stocks on most other weapons looks like hammered dog shit. However, the logic and reasoning you used in your rant is just dumb.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:13:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Heat dissipation duh! 
OP is right, there's absolutely no use for a 12 gauge shotgun with an instantly adjustable LOP in a home defense scenario where several residents of different stature may need to use it at a moment's notice. Nope. None at all. 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:13:06 AM EDT
[#6]
8/10
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:13:07 AM EDT
[#7]
We need a "head exploding" .gif. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:13:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Its called making lemonade. Since you have to have a stock built around the buffer tube, you add some holes and try to convince users that its all about the length of pull. Next time you're at a shoot, see how many people –– other than women and children –– are actually using those intermediate settings. Everyone I see uses them fully open or fully closed. And what in the hell is the purpose of this sort of thing on a shotgun? What's really funny is that when you bolt one onto non-ar15 pattern guns, you have to use an adaptor that screws up overall length of the assembly compared to the original stock in any event. I don't have a problem with the stock on M4s, hell... I use mine (though only fully opened or fully closed), but its the ass-tastic effort to kludge these onto everything from WWII era guns to brand new lever action disasters that drives me nuts. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:13:49 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:14:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
excellent rant ... pictures..... use of descriptive language..... A-Team reference..... I agree... 10/10 Agreed |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:15:04 AM EDT
[#11]
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Its called making lemonade. Since you have to have a stock built around the buffer tube, you add some holes and try to convince users that its all about the length of pull. Next time you're at a shoot, see how many people –– other than women and children –– are actually using those intermediate settings. Everyone I see uses them fully open or fully closed. And what in the hell is the purpose of this sort of thing on a shotgun? What's really funny is that when you bolt one onto non-ar15 pattern guns, you have to use an adaptor that screws up overall length of the assembly compared to the original stock in any event. I don't have a problem with the stock on M4s, hell... I use mine (though only fully opened or fully closed), but its the ass-tastic effort to kludge these onto everything from WWII era guns to brand new lever action disasters that drives me nuts. So it's OK to have an adjustable stock on an M4 style gun, but NOT ok to have it on anything else because the sole purpose of any stock that isn't fixed is to give the gun a smaller form factor. Am I doin it rite??? 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:15:38 AM EDT
[#12]
10/10 OP.
The last I checked a B/A rifle, AK, SKS, 10/22, 870, M-500, Mini-14, much less a fucking lever-acton did not have a buffer tube that required those abortions of a stock. That said I guess I'm about as bad as I have a Archangel kit on a 10/22 fun gun but dammit, that is where I draw the line. Shit I would not even have that if Federal Ordnance still made the walnut & steel under-folder for the 10/22.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:17:01 AM EDT
[#13]
8/10
The Knoxx stock makes use of the faux buffer tube space for their recoil mechanism. The adjustable LOP with the M4-style stock after that is just gravy. That and LEO and .mil users who train on M4 and AR15 variants and switch back and forth to shotguns when appropriate will have reinforcement with any muscle memory they've developed through training, and "feel" they're used to. AK's and other non-AR weapons, I agree. They should stick with their own stock "family". Looks like ass. Especially AK's, SKS's, and Mini-14's. 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:17:32 AM EDT
[#14]
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg You talk about how awesome piston driven ar's are, and then post an airsoft gun with a cord hanging out. Fail. It was a google image fail on my part with the copy/paste fuckup. Wrong link. Here's the right one... assuming its not blacked out by wikipedia today –– I know its an xcr, but that's the point... when you get rid of the buffer tube you can get rid of that stock design with its limitations: 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:17:58 AM EDT
[#15]
That guy really hates it that he drew the short straw and had to stand and sell those monstrosities.
Probably a nice guy before the show. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:20:31 AM EDT
[#16]
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That guy really hates it that he drew the short straw and had to stand and sell those monstrosities. Probably a nice guy before the show. I was thinking he must have banged the CEO's wife or something. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:22:39 AM EDT
[#17]
I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE!
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:22:40 AM EDT
[#18]
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It's a good design, so naturally people will use it on other guns. Why you mad OP? No it is not. It is a compromise required by the design of the AR15 platform. First time I've ever heard somebody say that it's a compromise. People don't keep using shit for decades if it's a compromise. Especially in the world we live in where everyone and their dog makes "game-changing" accessories for the AR platform. It is a compromise since a true collapsing stock, or folder cannot be used on the AR15. Why does no other military rifle have this feature? If it was so great the Russians, Chinese, Brits, etc would be using them on their AKs, and what have you. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:23:01 AM EDT
[#19]
NagOrzo15-1 Member Joined: Jan 2011 Meh....you're too new to possibly have an opinion worthy for us to take seriously here yet. Call back in 5 years. 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:23:09 AM EDT
[#20]
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It's a good design, so naturally people will use it on other guns. Why you mad OP? No it is not. It is a compromise required by the design of the AR15 platform. First time I've ever heard somebody say that it's a compromise. People don't keep using shit for decades if it's a compromise. Especially in the world we live in where everyone and their dog makes "game-changing" accessories for the AR platform. Dude, you just... don't get it. In case of the AR, that telescoping stock was the best compact design they could do and still keep the buffer tube. You happen to notice that NO other military rifles use that shitty design? They use either a full size stock or a real folder. Not half and half. Is the AR a great rifle? Yes. Does that fucking stock belong on a 30-30? NO. 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:23:17 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Its called making lemonade. Since you have to have a stock built around the buffer tube, you add some holes and try to convince users that its all about the length of pull. Next time you're at a shoot, see how many people –– other than women and children –– are actually using those intermediate settings. Everyone I see uses them fully open or fully closed. And what in the hell is the purpose of this sort of thing on a shotgun? What's really funny is that when you bolt one onto non-ar15 pattern guns, you have to use an adaptor that screws up overall length of the assembly compared to the original stock in any event. I don't have a problem with the stock on M4s, hell... I use mine (though only fully opened or fully closed), but its the ass-tastic effort to kludge these onto everything from WWII era guns to brand new lever action disasters that drives me nuts. see how many people –– other than women and children –– are actually using those intermediate settings Check the pic I posted of my AK and AR, where is my stock positioned? Not fully opened, or closed. Notice that the length on the homemade AK stock matches that of the AR. So............... |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:24:27 AM EDT
[#22]
My 10/22 has a telescoping stock on it that looks like the M4 style. I did this for length of pull options.
You mentioned other options are available. I'm curious. Which of those options allows me to shoot half a mag worth of .22lr and then hand the rifle to my wife who is 15" shorter than I am and within 3 seconds she can be shooting comfortably? Also, my M4 style stock is also a side folder. So suck it. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:25:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
NagOrzo15-1 Member Joined: Jan 2011 Meh....your too new to possibly have an opinion worthy for us to take seriously here yet. Call back in 5 years. When did it jump to 5 years? Does post count enter in to it? I thought I had earned my interwebz. 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:25:45 AM EDT
[#24]
This rant rates a 10/10
WELL DONE OP!!!! |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:26:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
OP is correct. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:26:47 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
NagOrzo15-1 Member Joined: Jan 2011 Meh....your too new to possibly have an opinion worthy for us to take seriously here yet. Call back in 5 years. When did it jump to 5 years? Does post count enter in to it? I thought I had earned my interwebz. It just sounded like a good solid number at the time. So you can call back in a couple of years too.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:27:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg You talk about how awesome piston driven ar's are, and then post an airsoft gun with a cord hanging out. Fail. It was a google image fail on my part with the copy/paste on my part. Wrong link. Here's the right one... assuming its not blacked out by wikipedia today –– I know its an xcr, but that's the point... when you get rid of the buffer tube you can get rid of that stock design with its limitations: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Xcr_cqb.gif You have redeemed yourself. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:28:40 AM EDT
[#28]
You have way too much free time. You should get back out with the occupiers.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:29:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I'm asking because I honestly don't know: can the first AK pictured actually be held/fired in that configuration? It looks like the stock obstructs the grip and trigger. I'm talking ergos here, not mechanics. It was a bad grab / copy-paste from my google image searching. I've put up better examples in the OP. Thanks for pointing that out. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:29:56 AM EDT
[#30]
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It's a good design, so naturally people will use it on other guns. Why you mad OP? No it is not. It is a compromise required by the design of the AR15 platform. First time I've ever heard somebody say that it's a compromise. People don't keep using shit for decades if it's a compromise. Especially in the world we live in where everyone and their dog makes "game-changing" accessories for the AR platform. It is a compromise since a true collapsing stock, or folder cannot be used on the AR15. Why does no other military rifle have this feature? If it was so great the Russians, Chinese, Brits, etc would be using them on their AKs, and what have you. On my cell or I would link you but the Russians are using M4 stocks on AKs atleast the special guys do. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:30:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
excellent rant ... pictures..... use of descriptive language..... A-Team reference..... I agree... 10/10 |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:31:11 AM EDT
[#32]
You know what this all boils down to?
Tacticoolness used as decoration is just corny, phony marketing scam And tacticool-o-gized guns are technically inferior to their "boring" commercial counterparts. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:31:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: It's a good design, so naturally people will use it on other guns. Why you mad OP? First post and all that. With the exception of the lever action, the m4 style stock makes those guns that much more ergonomic and function-able. I don't know if you ever handled an underfolder ak or top folding shotgun stock, but they aren't comfortable to say the least. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:36:30 AM EDT
[#34]
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/colt-scw-carbine-coming-to-civilians/
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:42:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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The M4 style is designed to adjust the stock to make the shooter more comfortable and accurate, as well as give it a slightly smaller form factor. Ah, actually no. The stock design was originated with the CAR-15 carbine with the specific intent of providing soldiers with a more compact rifle (the retracted stock and shorter barrel) so it could be more easily carried in helicopters, etc. Its a consequence of the buffer tube that it can't be more compact, which is why one of the "selling" features of some of the piston driven AR15 derivatives is that you can use a true folding stock. Check out this lovely lady: http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/willhemh/PDW%20Review/IMG_1621.jpg If it ONLY had an open and closed setting, I'd agree. In reality, it has 4-6 settings, so it's pretty easy to see that it's designed for adjusting LOP to each shooter. For 20 or so years it was 2 position. It was eventually adapted to adjust LOP but not designed that way. 
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:42:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Meh opinions are like assholes..... Everyone has one.......
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:50:56 AM EDT
[#37]
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Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Heat dissipation duh!
OP is right, there's absolutely no use for a 12 gauge shotgun with an instantly adjustable LOP in a home defense scenario where several residents of different stature may need to use it at a moment's notice. Nope. None at all.
Right, because in a defense scenario the person who gets a hold of the 12 gauge ought to be sitting there fucking around with length of pull before actually, you know, engaging the threat. Are you fucking serious? |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:51:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Capitalism.. How does it work?
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:06:23 AM EDT
[#39]
I agree they look silly on most "other" guns....
So, uh, don't buy one.  It's nothing to get so mad about.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:08:54 AM EDT
[#40]
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Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Heat dissipation duh!
OP is right, there's absolutely no use for a 12 gauge shotgun with an instantly adjustable LOP in a home defense scenario where several residents of different stature may need to use it at a moment's notice. Nope. None at all.
Right, because in a defense scenario the person who gets a hold of the 12 gauge ought to be sitting there fucking around with length of pull before actually, you know, engaging the threat. Are you fucking serious? My Mossberg 500 with a collapsible stock stays in the position I need it in while it's on duty. Did you hit your head this morning?
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:10:03 AM EDT
[#41]
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Oh really? Why are there so many holes? http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k233005_k187093_ctrcommeciavsmilspec.jpg Heat dissipation duh!
OP is right, there's absolutely no use for a 12 gauge shotgun with an instantly adjustable LOP in a home defense scenario where several residents of different stature may need to use it at a moment's notice. Nope. None at all.
Right, because in a defense scenario the person who gets a hold of the 12 gauge ought to be sitting there fucking around with length of pull before actually, you know, engaging the threat. Are you fucking serious? Right, because if I'm not home (6'6" with corresponding reach) it's inconceivable that my GF (5'6" with correspondingly much shorter reach) might flick the stock on the bedroom shotgun to "her" length before going to sleep, and prefer that to breaking out tools? Are you fucking serious? |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:14:42 AM EDT
[#42]
I actually like that 10/22 stock. It's light and adjustable, plus it gets your hand closer to the trigger for those who have problems with that. Also accomodates bull barrels with no problem.
I've set it up on a 10/22 for the kids, who can actually shoot the gun now. The Butler Creek folding stock was a non-starter for them. Add the Butler Creek "carbon fiber" barrel and you have a 3 pound .22 suitable for small hands. Putting it on everything else, I see your point. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:18:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I actually like that 10/22 stock. It's light and adjustable, plus it gets your hand closer to the trigger for those who have problems with that. Also accomodates bull barrels with no problem. I've set it up on a 10/22 for the kids, who can actually shoot the gun now. The Butler Creek folding stock was a non-starter for them. Add the Butler Creek "carbon fiber" barrel and you have a 3 pound .22 suitable for small hands. Putting it on everything else, I see your point. When I see them on the 10-22 the axis line for the tube (and thus the rifle's position on one's shoulder) seems all farged up. Maybe it varies with the brand. Do you have a cheek extender or something so those kiddos can see the sights, or do they float their head up off the stock to aim? I guess that would be my concern there. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:19:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Agree with your assessment that it is dumb.
Quoted:
Why do you care what people do to their guns? Agree with this assessment more. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:19:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Capitalism.. How does it work? The value of something offered in the market gets tested in the marketplace of ideas. If the emperor has no clothes, the free and open debate makes sure consumers get to make an informed choice. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:25:33 AM EDT
[#46]
I don't own a CAR/M4 style stock. Not a one. I don't like them, that's all.
I really don't give a shit who puts them on what, but I'll tell you this... I'll never purchase a gun of any sort with a CAR/M4 stock on it. An AR might be the exception, but it'll be coming off. As for anything else, it looks stupid. Looks stupid on shotguns, looks stupid on AKs, stupid on MP5s, stupid on 10/22s... Most of all, the stupidest thing I've ever seen, is the Tacticool Levergun. That's just fucked. That goes out from the realm of my personal opinion, and just insults everyone's common sense as a whole. Whoever did that is a bad, stupid person, and they should feel bad, and stupid. Bad. And stupid. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:27:32 AM EDT
[#47]
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I actually like that 10/22 stock. It's light and adjustable, plus it gets your hand closer to the trigger for those who have problems with that. Also accomodates bull barrels with no problem. I've set it up on a 10/22 for the kids, who can actually shoot the gun now. The Butler Creek folding stock was a non-starter for them. Add the Butler Creek "carbon fiber" barrel and you have a 3 pound .22 suitable for small hands. Putting it on everything else, I see your point. When I see them on the 10-22 the axis line for the tube (and thus the rifle's position on one's shoulder) seems all farged up. Maybe it varies with the brand. Do you have a cheek extender or something so those kiddos can see the sights, or do they float their head up off the stock to aim? I guess that would be my concern there. The iron sights are still on the gun, and you can easily get plenty low enough for a good cheekweld, since there is some drop between the top of the receiver and the tube. |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:27:50 AM EDT
[#48]
As far as the AK goes, allow me to retort:
Russian AKs The collapsing stock on the lever gun is immoral.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:34:08 AM EDT
[#49]
I agree. That stock does not belong on anything that doesn't have an AR-type buffer tube. When this does occur, it is usually pointless, gimmicky marketing or tapco-fucking.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 10:36:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE! They are so overdun I was ashamed to have an AR with one. |
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