Quoted:

Perfectly legal in California

So will same sex marriage, someday soon, but who gives a shiite?

So in California, a motorcyclist can 'improve his position' at a redlight by moving between the stopped cars?

What asshat thought up that piece of traffic bullshiite?

Eric The(SoundsLikeBSToMe)Hun

Quoted: Quoted: Sportbikes are somewhat analagous to black rifles.   - They are often seen as illegitimate and sacrifical by others involved in the overall hobby - They attract younger people entering the hobbies - They are often used and handled in a dangerous fashion due to immaturity, stupidity, and sometimes, flat out crazyness - Bad press seems to attach itself to them - They are seen as significantly more dangerous than 'regular' product Use care in how you approach arguments against them, as they can easily be used against you in the future.  +1 If they were riding Harley's would you feel the same way?

Hmmm... Not sure if I'm reading you correctly here. Obviously, most people who ride harleys are decent people, just as are most people who ride sport bikes, so it's a good idea to watch out about giving _any_ bikes a worse image than they already have. I mean... harleys got their bad name among the general public because of some 1950's movies showing "those bad motorcycle gangs" raping and pillaging innocent people. Great for selling movie tickets, but not good for the image of the average rider. Unless you count the guys who only ride harleys 'cause they want to live out their "biker/WWE" fantasy image. In that case, I guess those guys enjoy being thought of as "bad". Those types aren't helping things at all. They're as bad for the over all image of motorcycles as the stuntaz and other squidly types on sport bikes.

- On the subject of comparing sportbikes to black rifles though, I think that's a good comparison in that they are truely high performance machines. They sorta make harleys look like a beat up old .22 single shot rifle from 1912 compared to a brand new M-4.

I'm not advocating doing what that John Parks guy is doing.  Thats reckless and irresponsable as well.

All I'm saying, is these guys, and girls, want me to just go out of my way to look out for their well being, because they are on the roads acting foolishly.  They want me to put up with their idicoies of giving people the finger because they were only doing the speed limit, or in excess, but the excess wasnt fast enough in their opinion.  I dont understand.  I am already very very cautious on the roadways.  Its paid off by not being in a wreck that was my fault.

I dont look at them as organ donors, but I can sure see why some would.  I dont hate them, but I do hate the way alot of them act.

It dosnt help matters any that I've seen three motorcycle fatalities occur right in front of me.  Only one had to do with another vehicle, and the motor cycle T-boned the car.  The other two were when these bikers didnt buy into the 40MPH overpass speed limit and went the ramps at 100MPH+ and pluged to their deaths.

But thats right, you cars and trucks drive more safer to compensate our st00pidity.

Quoted: So in California, a motorcyclist can 'improve his position' at a redlight by moving between the stopped cars? Eric The(SoundsLikeBSToMe)Hun

Do they want the same "rights of the road", but not the responsibilities????

Quoted: Quoted: Perfectly legal in California So will same sex marriage, someday soon, but who gives a shiite? So in California, a motorcyclist can 'improve his position' at a redlight by moving between the stopped cars? What asshat thought up that piece of traffic bullshiite? Eric The(SoundsLikeBSToMe)Hun

CA Dept of Mot Veh as far as I know.  It was once attempted to be made illegal but then the CHiPs would have to use their lights, siren, etc ...

It was easier to leave it as is.



When I rode a bike in CA (CBR600F3 ).  Lane splitting was the only way to go and perfectly safe in my experience.

Those who say it is unsafe are the same kind of people who dis-allow rapid fire at a shooting range (and I don't mean bumpfiring)

Quoted: I'm not advocating doing what that John Parks guy is doing.  Thats reckless and irresponsable as well. All I'm saying, is these guys, and girls, want me to just go out of my way to look out for their well being, because they are on the roads acting foolishly.  They want me to put up with their idicoies of giving people the finger because they were only doing the speed limit, or in excess, but the excess wasnt fast enough in their opinion.  I dont understand.  I am already very very cautious on the roadways.  Its paid off by not being in a wreck that was my fault. I dont look at them as organ donors, but I can sure see why some would.  I dont hate them, but I do hate the way alot of them act. It dosnt help matters any that I've seen three motorcycle fatalities occur right in front of me.  Only one had to do with another vehicle, and the motor cycle T-boned the car.  The other two were when these bikers didnt buy into the 40MPH overpass speed limit and went the ramps at 100MPH+ and pluged to their deaths. But thats right, you cars and trucks drive more safer to compensate our st00pidity.

I think those stickers mean "motorcycles in general". They're not specifically telling you to be extra careful for dumbasses.

The person with that bumpersticker probably shook their head at the squids and cursed them for giving responsible riders a bad name.  I ride, and every time I see some idiot wheelie on a public street, I want to smack him in the head.

SQUIDs

Stupidly
QUick
and
Inevitably
Dead


Don't worry, most bikers don't like them either, thats why they're called squids.

I started out riding dirt as a kid and then got on the rockets as a teen.
Rode like a complete asshole.
Won't kid anyone, I was no Ghostrider, but I was a red-lining traffic weaving blow-past-you-like-you're-standing-still hot shot.
Always always racing.
Always pushing myself, the machine, and the tires.

LOTS of close calls.

One day I tried to count up how many times I almost bit it, and looked at the number of crashes per year, and thought about what I was doing, and decided that if I kept it up, it was only a matter of time until I got my share of the pavement.

SO, I promised myself that I would knock it off and ride nice.
That'd work great until someone in front of me was fucking around too much, I'd kick it down two gears and rocket around them ..... then cruise that way for a minute to blow off the steam .... and then I'd ride like an asshole for the rest of the day.

Another introspective moment convinced me that I didn't have the discipline to ride that sort of machine without being a fuckhead.
I went Harley.
Holy fucking nightmare mistake.
Those unreliable, cult following, breaking down, clunkity peices of shit are fun when they work, but way too much headache for me.
Buy bye you shiney scrap heap.

Now I ride upright jap machines.
Cruiser type bikes.
It doesn't have the handling and weight distribution that I was addicted to in the rockets, and it isn't a mechanical failure money pit either.

I don't ride like an asshole anymore, but my hand still tightens around an imaginary throttle and the air-bike still pivots underneath me when I watch the Kawasaki commercials.
I'm still an adrenaline junky, but I'm in enough control to manage my addiction.

As to the original poster and the topic, people in cars run into motorcycles becasue they don't 'see' them. Your mind is expecting to see a car or truck when you check if an area is clear. The smaller object is sometimes filtered right the fuck out. You don't perceive it at all.
Happens ALL the time.

Quoted: I started out riding dirt as a kid and then got on the rockets as a teen. Rode like a complete asshole. Won't kid anyone, I was no Ghostrider, but I was a red-lining traffic weaving blow-past-you-like-you're-standing-still hot shot. Always always racing. Always pushing myself, the machine, and the tires. LOTS of close calls. One day I tried to count up how many times I almost bit it, and looked at the number of crashes per year, and thought about what I was doing, and decided that if I kept it up, it was only a matter of time until I got my share of the pavement. SO, I promised myself that I would knock it off and ride nice. That'd work great until someone in front of me was fucking around too much, I'd kick it down two gears and rocket around them ..... then cruise that way for a minute to blow off the steam .... and then I'd ride like an asshole for the rest of the day. Another introspective moment convinced me that I didn't have the discipline to ride that sort of machine without being a fuckhead. I went Harley. Holy fucking nightmare mistake. Those unreliable, cult following, breaking down, clunkity peices of shit are fun when they work, but way too much headache for me. Buy bye you shiney scrap heap. Now I ride upright jap machines. Cruiser type bikes. It doesn't have the handling and weight distribution that I was addicted to in the rockets, and it isn't a mechanical failure money pit either. I don't ride like an asshole anymore, but my hand still tightens around an imaginary throttle and the air-bike still pivots underneath me when I watch the Kawasaki commercials. I'm still an adrenaline junky, but I'm in enough control to manage my addiction. As to the original poster and the topic, people in cars run into motorcycles becasue they don't 'see' them. Your mind is expecting to see a car or truck when you check if an area is clear. The smaller object is sometimes filtered right the fuck out. You don't perceive it at all. Happens ALL the time.

You sound a lot like me. I started on dirt bikes in 1972 when I was 8 years old. Did some motocross and harescrambles and loads of trail and dual-sport riding over the next 10-15 years. Then In the mid '80's I got a Suzuki GS550ES, which was one of the early sport bikes (4 cyl, unlike the later gs500) along the lines of the Kawasaki Gpz 550. I rode like a complete fool up around Deal's Gap (great place on the TN/NC state line) and all over theTN, western NC and northern GA areas. Sometimes I find it amazing that I lived through it. Anyhow, I finally had the same realization that you did, but I just couldn't bring myself to get a cruiser style bike (much less one of those sorry ass harleys), 'cause the main thing I like about riding is pushing myself to become better/faster. So I started just doing track rides and occational races on sport bikes, and also doing some dirt riding again. That way, I get to ride like I want without creating a hazard for other people on the road. And I don't have to worry about soccer moms in SUV's coming over the yellow line and running head on into me in the curves. I've seen that shit happen waaay too often.

Anyhow, you should try doing track rides. You're never too old to have fun.

Quoted: Quoted: Perfectly legal in California So in California, a motorcyclist can 'improve his position' at a redlight by moving between the stopped cars? What asshat thought up that piece of traffic bullshiite? Eric The(SoundsLikeBSToMe)Hun

Not just at red lights, but while moving on multi-lane roads as well.  Probably the only thing I like about CA. I wish it were legal here in the PRoMA, but it isn't, so I don't do it. In my 29 years of licensed riding, I have split lanes, but I'm too cautious now.

I would still do it, illegal or not, if I thought my safety were in jeopardy, like of the guy behind me was going to hit me or something.

Quoted: The person with that bumpersticker probably shook their head at the squids and cursed them for giving responsible riders a bad name.  I ride, and every time I see some idiot wheelie on a public street, I want to smack him in the head.

Actually the driver and passenger stuck their arms out the window and pumped their fists.  When I passed them, they were laughing like it was the coolest thing ever.

Also, the decal on the had a lil drawing of a KawaSuziHonda something, popping a wheelie, under the words.

It also had the lil Calvin esque drawing pissing on the Harley Davidson and OCC logos.  No not both at the sametime, you filthy minded crazies.

Quoted: Quoted: The person with that bumpersticker probably shook their head at the squids and cursed them for giving responsible riders a bad name.  I ride, and every time I see some idiot wheelie on a public street, I want to smack him in the head. Actually the driver and passenger stuck their arms out the window and pumped their fists.  When I passed them, they were laughing like it was the coolest thing ever. Also, the decal on the had a lil drawing of a KawaSuziHonda something, popping a wheelie, under the words. It also had the lil Calvin esque drawing pissing on the Harley Davidson and OCC logos.  No not both at the sametime, you filthy minded crazies.

Well, there is no shortage of idiots.

I think the thing that keeps me in check on my "crotch rocket" is that I'm absolutely terrified of it's power and potential. I still haven't brought my R1 past 75mph.

Quoted: I think the thing that keeps me in check on my "crotch rocket" is that I'm absolutely terrified of it's power and potential. I still haven't brought my R1 past 75mph.

yeah right...

Bring it on!

Quoted: Quoted: I think the thing that keeps me in check on my "crotch rocket" is that I'm absolutely terrified of it's power and potential. I still haven't brought my R1 past 75mph. yeah right...

+1

A motorcycle must ride faster than the flow of traffic to avoid being killed because cage (car) drivers do not see bikes and do not pay attention. What is a minor inconvenience accident for a car can be fatal for a bike.

Rarely, I will lane split or filter to the front of a line of cars. Everyone that has a problem with that, I ask why? I am not holding you up in any way, are you so petty you can’t stand someone getting ahead because you cannot? It is far safer to ride between stopped cars than to hope that the idiot soccer mom behind you in stop and go traffic that is on her cell phone, eating, putting on makeup, and beating her kids in the back seat doesn’t rear end and kill you. Lane splitting and filtering are legal and encouraged almost everywhere on the planet except the US (California does allow lane splitting – one of the few laws they got right, there is simply no law against it).

Things that seem dangerous from the perspective of someone driving a car are not always so with a motorcycle. You are a fraction of the size width and length wise, have a power to weight ratio far exceeding almost any super car, and incredible maneuverability at lower speeds.

And to those that insinuate trying to injure or kill bikers… I think it would be a public service to remove such ignorant mentally deficient animals from the gene pool by slitting your throats.

Quoted: Quoted: Perfectly legal in California So will same sex marriage, someday soon, but who gives a shiite? So in California, a motorcyclist can 'improve his position' at a redlight by moving between the stopped cars? What asshat thought up that piece of traffic bullshiite? Eric The(SoundsLikeBSToMe)Hun

The cali vehicle code allows for two vehicles to share the same lane and that is where lane splitting comes from. "Improving" his position is no inconvenience to the drivers on either side and is safer for the rider. If we were forced to sit in traffic the chances of becoming a car sandwich increases greatly because most cage driving, phone talking, eating kid slapping assholes rarely pay attention and rear ending accidents are probably the most common accidents in heavy traffic.
While you may not like it I do use it and enjoy not becoming a hood ornament because some asshat was too important yapping on his phone while sucking a latte down to notice traffic has stopped.

When I was working the streets as a Medic we called them DONOR CYCLES.
The head and neck are in the proper position to beak the neck in a low speed wreck. Organs were still good Donor farm.

They are making these new crotch rockets so beautiful that I'm not sure how much longer I can resist one.  Those things are black rifles on wheels!  Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I'm stupid.  I would kill myself on one of those things.  

Question - could you buy one and just look at it or never take it out on the open highway?  Would that be a sin against normalcy, decency or whatever?

Quoted: Sportbikes are somewhat analagous to black rifles.   - They are often seen as illegitimate and sacrifical by others involved in the overall hobby - They attract younger people entering the hobbies - They are often used and handled in a dangerous fashion due to immaturity, stupidity, and sometimes, flat out crazyness - Bad press seems to attach itself to them - They are seen as significantly more dangerous than 'regular' product Use care in how you approach arguments against them, as they can easily be used against you in the future.

Points very well taken!!!

As an owner of BOTH Black Rifles   and a sportbike YES even at nearly 50 years old I can't give up either.

You won't find me wheelying down the freeway though or doing stoppies.  I'm actually alergic to "Road Rash" and avoid it at all cost......  

Quoted: Quoted: The proper name for those guys who do stunts is "Stuntaz". Negative the proper name for those guys are squids, I like to go fast, but on a track.  Those guys are the reason my insurance is as expensive as it is.

From the "SoCal" motorcycle slang dictonary:

A Squid is someone who is all over their motorcycle, arms and legs flailing around like a squid (Motorcyclist Architeuthis).
The squid is more often than not just on the ragged edge of their riding abilities and are often a breath away from crashing.
Squids can be found on public streets riding the canyons (or on/off ramps if they live in Texas or Florida) or on the racetrack participating in either track days or amatur roadracing.

A Crotch Rocket is the nickname of all Japanese sport bike type motorcycles (and some Italian made sport bikes). A crotch rocket rider can be found racing on city streets stoplight to stoplight, or if they are serious on long open stretches of deserted road humiliating car drivers.

Stuntaz are riders that do motorcycle tricks on public streets, block long wheelies, stoppies, burnouts, standing on the seat, basicly "stupid human motorcycle tricks".



 

Quoted: Quoted: Perfectly legal in California So will same sex marriage, someday soon, but who gives a shiite? So in California, a motorcyclist can 'improve his position' at a redlight by moving between the stopped cars? What asshat thought up that piece of traffic bullshiite? Eric The(SoundsLikeBSToMe)Hun

Actually Eric, it has been proven by both the CHP and USC (by the Hurt Report) that splitting lanes in SoCal is SAFER for the motorcyclist than sitting in traffic.

I used to follow CHP bike cops splitting lanes all the time, and more than once I had CHP's behind me who passed me up when they were able too.

In Europe where motorcycles are king stop light lane position is done all the time.

Even here in Washington motorcycles get to go to the head of the line on the ferrys.

Those of you who either own or want to own a sport bike, but are "afraid" of it's power need to do two things:

1) Relax. It's an inamimate object and will only do what you direct it to do by your control inputs.

2) ... and this is the serious part... Go take multiple riding/racing schools. That way you will have no need to be afraid of the bike. Most accidents happen because people don't know how to properly ride. And I'm icluding a lot of riders who've been riding for decades in that statement. If you're not the type person who can put their ego aside and _learn_ how to properly use your brakes and how to steer properly, you WILL crash in short order. - If you take the time and make the effort to learn how to expertly use everything a sport bike offers, and you use it wisely, you're actually much safer on a sport bike than you could ever be on a cruiser. Sport bikes not only can go faster in a straight line than a cruiser style bike... they can also _stop_ faster (better brakes), corner faster/better (more cornering clearance), and just generally do anything better than a cruiser because they're build with compettition in mind. First, take your local MSF courses (beginning and advanced), then check out any of these riding schools (or any of several other good ones): www.classrides.com/ , www.starmotorcycle.com/ , www.cornerspeed.net/ , www.edbargyracingschool.com/ , www.superbikeschool.com/ , www.schwantzschool.com/ ... etc, etc, etc. Note that some of the racing schools might tell you some things that will be a little different from what MSF says, but that's because MSF is geared more toward beginners and average everyday riding, where racing schools are more advanced. That's not to say that MSF isn't good. It is. Very.

The real issue when riding is not so much the bike as the nut that connects the footpegs to the handlebars.  Rider education and responsibility is everything. Don't listen to "conventional wisdom" about riding. Go to the schools where you'll learn for _yourself_ how to do it right. - You might say, "Well, I don't want to race, so why should I go to a racing school?" The answer to that is: Because racing school will teach you how to handle your bike at the "ragged edge" of it's performance capabilities. Once you know how to steer and brake at that level of competence, you'll be 1000 times more likely to be able to successfully avoid t-boning the next little old blue haired lady in an SUV who pulls out in front of you in a blind curve, etc. Enough said. Don't put off taking riding school. Do it now. Your _ass_ will thank you for it.

Damn... I sound like a public service ad.

Oops. Forgot to link to MSF:
www.msf-usa.org/

And in related news...

Meridian woman falls off motorcycle, killed by semi
09:58 AM PST on Wednesday, March 8, 2006
KTVB.com

Jason O'Brien/KTVB

NAMPA, Idaho - A female passenger fell off a motorcycle on Interstate 84 near the Ada-Canyon county line last night and was run over by a semi-truck. Forty-year-old Donna Franks of Meridian pronounced dead the scene. An eyewitness said that the motorcycle cut in front of the semi.

The driver of the bike fled from the scene. Fifty-year-old William Wheeler of Boise was later arrested and charged with felony manslaughter and leaving the scene of an accident.

The accident happened around 7:30 p.m. near Black Cat Road on eastbound I-84. The interstate was closed from Garrity Boulevard to the Meridian Road exit, causing traffic back ups for about three hours.

"He cut in front of cars ahead of us, and then they cut in front of the semi," witness Jeff Lindbloom said. "She came off (the motorcycle), then the semi ran her over. He pulled to the side of the road. He was talking like he was starting to get mad, and he said 'I've gotta go tell her daughter,' then he said 'do me a favor and get the "f" out of my face,' I got his license plate number and he took off."

Police were able to track that license plate number back to Wheeler's home, and took him in to custody without incident.

The woman's personal effects were scattered across the highway. Police carefully combed the scene during their initial investigation.

Officers continue to investigate what happened, and would not say whether or not this was an accident or intentional.


William Wheeler, 50, of Boise, has been charged with felony manslaughter and leaving the scene of an accident.

Quoted: JFP, I advise you to read the sentence below the one you quoted in red.   A large portion of these bikers do indeed drive like fools.  I live in north Dallas, around LBJ, and every Thursday night, starting at midnight, they race around 635.  God knows what speeds they are going, but its got to be around 125-150, maybe more.  Why?

I used to be a part of that scene. As ssuch I very much do know to what percentage of the bikers are careless...

BTW, I remember reading a study that was done in Kali back in the late eighties that showed the Harley crowd was way over represented in fatality motorcycle accidents.  

Quoted: A motorcycle must ride faster than the flow of traffic to avoid being killed because cage (car) drivers do not see bikes and do not pay attention. What is a minor inconvenience accident for a car can be fatal for a bike. Rarely, I will lane split or filter to the front of a line of cars. Everyone that has a problem with that, I ask why? I am not holding you up in any way, are you so petty you can’t stand someone getting ahead because you cannot? It is far safer to ride between stopped cars than to hope that the idiot soccer mom behind you in stop and go traffic that is on her cell phone, eating, putting on makeup, and beating her kids in the back seat doesn’t rear end and kill you. Lane splitting and filtering are legal and encouraged almost everywhere on the planet except the US (California does allow lane splitting – one of the few laws they got right, there is simply no law against it). Things that seem dangerous from the perspective of someone driving a car are not always so with a motorcycle. You are a fraction of the size width and length wise, have a power to weight ratio far exceeding almost any super car, and incredible maneuverability at lower speeds. And to those that insinuate trying to injure or kill bikers… I think it would be a public service to remove such ignorant mentally deficient animals from the gene pool by slitting your throats.

+1