Prison term for 'broken gun' case ends - David Olofson released - Page 2

General » General Discussion

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Prison term for 'broken gun' case ends - David Olofson released (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 4/21/2011 8:58:56 AM EDT

[#1]

It's great that he's out. It's an outrage that this clusterfuck was allowed to go on in the first place.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:00:58 AM EDT

[#2]

fix your guns, dont loan out (which i wouldnt anyways) your guns (not even for family) , get a lawyer. Thats what this story has taught me.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:12:26 AM EDT

[#3]

The prosecutor in that case and the BATF agents that manipulated the testing of the rifle are the ones that should be in prison. They ruined David Olfson's life, bankrupted his family, and tortured him for 30 months. Knowingly committing such an injustice on a fellow US citizens should, by law, carry the death penalty for all parties directly involved in pursuing Olfson's conviction. If this isn't "tyranny", I don't know what is.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:18:25 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Then the government reported a change in the type of ammunition used, and the rifle loosed off several shots and jammed.

I think it was that mythical 'fully automatic ammuntion' I have heard so much about.

Filing down the primer?

Soft primers, IIRC, the alloy is harder for mil-spec ammo, as opposed to some types of match grade ammo.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:18:50 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

Sure, but that doesn't change my response. Fuck the ATF.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:28:30 AM EDT

[#6]

According to what his friend, Kiernicki, told the police, Olofson was a deliberately engaged in blatant criminal activity.

Including running a firearm retail business with someone else's FFL number.

Read the Nov. 17 2006 complaint. It basically describes a bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-olofsons-off-to-jail-and-suns.html

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:32:59 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

If this is what you believe then you need to turn in all of your semi-auto AR15's to the BATF, because according to the law the BATF used on David Olfson, any AR15 with a bolt carrier that has the firing pin shrouded is an illegal machine gun.

In less than one minute you can readily convert an AR15 to fire full auto by simply removing the disconnecter from the trigger. If you use the same soft primer ammo that the BATF used, then there is no reason that the gun wouldn't fire full-auto and be defined as a machine gun by the BATF. Remember, "readily converted" also applies in the legal definition of a machine gun.

In addition, nearly any semi-auto can be converted to have the hammer follow the bolt home by removing the disconnecter. If soft primer ammo is used, you will likely get an occasional 2 round burst from the gun. Basically all semi-auto firearms under this interpretation of the law can be "readily converted" into a machine gun.

If the BATF applied the same criteria as in the Olfson case, they could get a illegal machine gun conviction against nearly any US citizen that owns a semi-auto firearm.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:34:32 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

If this is what you believe then you need to turn in all of your semi-auto AR15's to the BATF, because according to the law the BATF used on David Olfson, any AR15 with a bolt carrier that has the firing pin shrouded is an illegal machine gun.

In less than one minute you can readily convert an AR15 to fire full auto by simply removing the disconnecter from the trigger. If you use the same soft primer ammo that the BATF used, then there is no reason that the gun wouldn't fire full-auto and be defined as a machine gun by the BATF. Remember, "readily converted" also applies in the legal definition of a machine gun.

In addition, nearly any semi-auto can be converted to have the hammer follow the bolt home by removing the disconnecter. If soft primer ammo is used, you will likely get an occasional 2 round burst from the gun. Basically all semi-auto firearms under this interpretation of the law can be "readily converted" into a machine gun.

If the BATF applied the same criteria as in the Olfson case, they could get a illegal machine gun conviction against nearly any US citizen that owns a semi-auto firearm.

Well said...

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:35:33 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

According to what his friend, Kiernicki, told the police, Olofson was a deliberately engaged in blatant criminal activity.

Including running a firearm retail business with someone else's FFL number.

Read the Nov. 17 2006 complaint. It basically describes a bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-olofsons-off-to-jail-and-suns.html

Anyone recall what Mr. Kiernicki's motivation for cooperation was? Hmmmm?

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:36:13 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

The NRA did nothing for this guy ,and i now do nothing for the NRA

The NRA is NOT a legal defense fund/organization.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:38:44 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

If this is what you believe then you need to turn in all of your semi-auto AR15's to the BATF, because according to the law the BATF used on David Olfson, any AR15 with a bolt carrier that has the firing pin shrouded is an illegal machine gun.

In less than one minute you can readily convert an AR15 to fire full auto by simply removing the disconnecter from the trigger. If you use the same soft primer ammo that the BATF used, then there is no reason that the gun wouldn't fire full-auto and be defined as a machine gun by the BATF. Remember, "readily converted" also applies in the legal definition of a machine gun.

In addition, nearly any semi-auto can be converted to have the hammer follow the bolt home by removing the disconnecter. If soft primer ammo is used, you will likely get an occasional 2 round burst from the gun. Basically all semi-auto firearms under this interpretation of the law can be "readily converted" into a machine gun.

If the BATF applied the same criteria as in the Olfson case, they could get a illegal machine gun conviction against nearly any US citizen that owns a semi-auto firearm.

WELL SAID!

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:41:36 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

Sure, but that doesn't change my response. Fuck the ATF.

According to what his friend told the cops, Olofson was standing in the middle of the minefield juggling some mines in exchange for profit.

Setting aside all the breathless internet yakkety yak, it would appear that you've got your money on a bad pony.

Posted: 4/21/2011 9:59:06 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

According to what his friend, Kiernicki, told the police, Olofson was a deliberately engaged in blatant criminal activity.

Including running a firearm retail business with someone else's FFL number.

Read the Nov. 17 2006 complaint. It basically describes a bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-olofsons-off-to-jail-and-suns.html

If that is true, then why didn't the BATF charge Olfson for this "bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity"?????? Is that how justice works in this country; a person commits a crime, so the police charge him with some other crime that is a false allegation????

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:05:28 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

According to what his friend, Kiernicki, told the police, Olofson was a deliberately engaged in blatant criminal activity.

Including running a firearm retail business with someone else's FFL number.

Read the Nov. 17 2006 complaint. It basically describes a bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-olofsons-off-to-jail-and-suns.html

Anyone recall what Mr. Kiernicki's motivation for cooperation was? Hmmmm?

Yes, we understand that. However there's the matter of also leaving under a cloud of suspicion for misuse of .mil computer systems/property etc. and other things in his past as well.

Those of us pointing out Olofson did A LOT to garner the attention he received, aren't arguing the legal or constitutional merits of the case. There are two threads of discussion going on here. 1. The merits of the case, and 2., the day-to-day pragmatic issues of what he did to bring this all on himself.

Did the courts and ATF screw him in the case? Yes.

Did he bend over backwards to get the fed.gov's attention? Yes.

If Olofson was just some poor guy with a clean record who'd been railroaded for a malfunctioning AR, I think the board would be behind him 100%. However, that's not who he is.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:06:34 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

If this is what you believe then you need to turn in all of your semi-auto AR15's to the BATF, because according to the law the BATF used on David Olfson, any AR15 with a bolt carrier that has the firing pin shrouded is an illegal machine gun.

In less than one minute you can readily convert an AR15 to fire full auto by simply removing the disconnecter from the trigger. If you use the same soft primer ammo that the BATF used, then there is no reason that the gun wouldn't fire full-auto and be defined as a machine gun by the BATF. Remember, "readily converted" also applies in the legal definition of a machine gun.

In addition, nearly any semi-auto can be converted to have the hammer follow the bolt home by removing the disconnecter. If soft primer ammo is used, you will likely get an occasional 2 round burst from the gun. Basically all semi-auto firearms under this interpretation of the law can be "readily converted" into a machine gun.

If the BATF applied the same criteria as in the Olfson case, they could get a illegal machine gun conviction against nearly any US citizen that owns a semi-auto firearm.

What I've found out over the years is that most people will not devote enough mental energy to find out enough about a topic to have a valid opinion. Most people just cherry pick superficial facts that support an emotionally based opinion.

Well, i'm not emotional about it and I'm just trying to figure out how Olofson landed in jail.

The guy keirnicki's statements to the cops would land anyone in jail. If the guy's statements are truthful, then Olofson blatantly broke the law.

Look at #8 and #12 on the complaint. What do you make of it? A simple worn out part malfunctioning during an innocent trip to the range?

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:12:15 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
*snip*
My problem with this is that there is a law on the books that makes absolutely no fucking sense where the mechanical operation of a gun may be deemed illegal. It's not a situation where a real crime has been committed where someone has been harmed or money taken, a gun fired more than one round during a trigger pull. Given what I've seen of the case I tend to lean towards David's side of the argument. I also think that BATFE's efforts would be better spent focusing on real issues vs. manufactured ones like Olofson or project gun walker.
*snip*

why doesn't the government go after "real criminals"? because "real criminals" fight back. real criminals will kill agents and firebomb offices. real criminals will beat officials and take their car, just because. real criminals are not to be trifled with, and for all their grandstanding, up-armoring, and "if it saves just one child" bullshit, all government knows this.

sure, they'll "put tough new laws on the books to ensure our society is safer, and our schools are blah, blah, fucking blah". but in the end they'll turn a blind eye to the gang-bangers and drug dealers murdering college kids for fun, and they'll fuck you instead for a owning something you are allowed to own. they'll take your life, literally if need be, and run stories about it all over the country. they'll do it because they know you won't fight back, and they'll do it to broadcast to others who won't fight back.

we're no different than a pack of dogs. the .gov will snap and bite at you and i while we cower around and show our bellies. but they too roll over when they come across someone they know will fight.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:12:16 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

It really doesn't matter what the exact story is here. It's patently obvious that justice was not served.

Welcome home David.

30 months over a $200 tax. I agree.

Not what he was charged with or convicted of.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

From annoying the first judge ('gold fringed flag crap) to having a less than competent public defender, and pissing off the ATF.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

In the beginning, he handled pretty much everything the opposite of the way that one should.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:13:11 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

According to what his friend, Kiernicki, told the police, Olofson was a deliberately engaged in blatant criminal activity.

Including running a firearm retail business with someone else's FFL number.

Read the Nov. 17 2006 complaint. It basically describes a bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-olofsons-off-to-jail-and-suns.html

If that is true, then why didn't the BATF charge Olfson for this "bunch of genuinely stupid criminal activity"?????? Is that how justice works in this country; a person commits a crime, so the police charge him with some other crime that is a false allegation????

Take a few deep breaths and read the complaint.

What his friend said to the police would put Mother Theresa in jail.

Unless it's all a vast conspiracy? NRA and reviewing judges in on it too?

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:15:24 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.

I'd say it was a combination of both. He knew of the problem and refused to fix it, but the ATF put in a lot of effort to reproduce the condition, even going as far as producing poorly made ammunition.

This is a good summary, much fail by all parties involved.

This.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:15:49 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Glad he's out but I sure wish he'd have listened to the lawyers here who told him that his defense strategy was destined to fail.

I was one of them IIRC.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:17:56 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

not possible.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:19:32 AM EDT

[#22]

I believe his first "attorney" who was "assisting" had actually been disbarred. Which makes sense, because it's generally not proper for an attorney to help a non-attorney represent himself.

Also, he was spouting this kind of drivel in the beginning:

Title 18 USC sec 5 sec7 States that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT only has
jurisdiction in District of Columbia, Porto Rico, Guam and insular
possessions. Rule 53c of the rules of criminal procedure states that the
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT only has jurisdiction without the states and not
within the states. PEREZ vs. US states that commerce is irrelevant. BATF
is not a federal agency, they are not found in Title 31 under federal
agencies.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:19:33 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

The NRA did nothing for this guy ,and i now do nothing for the NRA

The NRA is pushing a law which would have helped prevent "railroadings" such as this one.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=271&issue=28

Guess who doesn't even mention it on their legislative action page?

http://capwiz.com/gunowners/home/

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:20:44 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

If this is what you believe then you need to turn in all of your semi-auto AR15's to the BATF, because according to the law the BATF used on David Olfson, any AR15 with a bolt carrier that has the firing pin shrouded is an illegal machine gun.

In less than one minute you can readily convert an AR15 to fire full auto by simply removing the disconnecter from the trigger. If you use the same soft primer ammo that the BATF used, then there is no reason that the gun wouldn't fire full-auto and be defined as a machine gun by the BATF. Remember, "readily converted" also applies in the legal definition of a machine gun.

In addition, nearly any semi-auto can be converted to have the hammer follow the bolt home by removing the disconnecter. If soft primer ammo is used, you will likely get an occasional 2 round burst from the gun. Basically all semi-auto firearms under this interpretation of the law can be "readily converted" into a machine gun.

If the BATF applied the same criteria as in the Olfson case, they could get a illegal machine gun conviction against nearly any US citizen that owns a semi-auto firearm.

What I've found out over the years is that most people will not devote enough mental energy to find out enough about a topic to have a valid opinion. Most people just cherry pick superficial facts that support an emotionally based opinion.

Well, i'm not emotional about it and I'm just trying to figure out how Olofson landed in jail.

The guy keirnicki's statements to the cops would land anyone in jail. If the guy's statements are truthful, then Olofson blatantly broke the law.

Look at #8 and #12 on the complaint. What do you make of it? A simple worn out part malfunctioning during an innocent trip to the range?

I read every word of this case 3 years ago when it was going on. As I recall Keirnicki wasn't charged with any crime, yet Olfson was charged with transferring a machine gun to Keirnicki. So why wasn't Keirnicki charged with possession of an unregistered machine gun? Keirnicki was a BATF stooge and said anything they told him to say.

Here's a question for you. Why did the BATF originally state that the rifle WAS NOT a machine gun when they did their first round of tests????

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:22:11 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.

Refer to the original documents. The Constitution of the United States.

That should let you know if he deserved be in jail.

TXL

Okay, we all agree that FA weapons shouldn't be banned because the Constitution says so.

Now that we've decided that issue, when are you going to start offering your Perfectly Constitutional full auto receivers that you made in your garage to the members of ARFCOM?

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:22:16 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.

I know enough to know fuck the ATF.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:24:01 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details. Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.

Sure, but that doesn't change my response. Fuck the ATF.

According to what his friend told the cops, Olofson was standing in the middle of the minefield juggling some mines in exchange for profit.

Setting aside all the breathless internet yakkety yak, it would appear that you've got your money on a bad pony.

Wouldn't be the first time we've done that. Anyone got a link to the CavArms thread?

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:24:50 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Glad he's out but I sure wish he'd have listened to the lawyers here who told him that his defense strategy was destined to fail.

I was one of them IIRC.

And, IIRC, you got crucified for it.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:25:25 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.

I'd say it was a combination of both. He knew of the problem and refused to fix it, but the ATF put in a lot of effort to reproduce the condition, even going as far as producing poorly made ammunition.

This is a good summary, much fail by all parties involved.

This.

His friend said that Olafson was running a retail firearm business with some else's FFL number and that the gun in question was a demo. olafson said the gun was a demo.

The friend said that he told Olafson not to modify his new gun to make it burst fire. He also said that Olafson told him not to turn the selector into the burst postion.

Either the friend is hugely and totally lying or Olafson was guilty. That's what it comes down to.

The dizzy, screechy third version that you guys are sticking in this thread with doesn't even fit what Olafson himself said.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:30:26 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.

Well, Olofson wasn't some "random citizen." He had been a thorn in the ATF's side for some time.

However, there can be little doubt that the ATF went after him.. and in the end convicted him of something that probably a great many of the people on this board would be guilty of. Why did they go after Olofson and not the rest of us? Because they didn't like him, plain and simple.

The word "conspire" accurately describes what the ATF did in this case.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:36:42 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I read every word of this case 3 years ago when it was going on. As I recall Keirnicki wasn't charged with any crime, yet Olfson was charged with transferring a machine gun to Keirnicki. So why wasn't Keirnicki charged with possession of an unregistered machine gun? Keirnicki was a BATF stooge and said anything they told him to say.

Here's a question for you. Why did the BATF originally state that the rifle WAS NOT a machine gun when they did their first round of tests????

EXACTLY. And the answer is: the ATF couldn't have cared less about the "machine gun." It was all about the man.

Olofson was convicted of transferring a machine gun that was not manufactured by him nor possessed by the guy he transferred it to...

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:40:45 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Land of the free.*

*Void where prohibited.

Land of the free my ass.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:41:57 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I read every word of this case 3 years ago when it was going on. As I recall Keirnicki wasn't charged with any crime, yet Olfson was charged with transferring a machine gun to Keirnicki. So why wasn't Keirnicki charged with possession of an unregistered machine gun? Keirnicki was a BATF stooge and said anything they told him to say.

Here's a question for you. Why did the BATF originally state that the rifle WAS NOT a machine gun when they did their first round of tests????

EXACTLY. And the answer is: the ATF couldn't have cared less about the "machine gun." It was all about the man.

Olofson was convicted of transferring a machine gun that was not manufactured by him nor possessed by the guy he transferred it to...

And that (along with a million other reasons) is why the ATF is completely and utterly full of shit in my book...

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:47:11 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.

Well, Olofson wasn't some "random citizen." He had been a thorn in the ATF's side for some time.

However, there can be little doubt that the ATF went after him.. and in the end convicted him of something that probably a great many of the people on this board would be guilty of. Why did they go after Olofson and not the rest of us? Because they didn't like him, plain and simple.

The word "conspire" accurately describes what the ATF did in this case.

The word "conspire" is the seed corn of most emotionally gratifying internet yak.

It's like the word "racism", an elastic concept that makes the books balance when the available facts don't do the job.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:51:45 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I read every word of this case 3 years ago when it was going on. As I recall Keirnicki wasn't charged with any crime, yet Olfson was charged with transferring a machine gun to Keirnicki. So why wasn't Keirnicki charged with possession of an unregistered machine gun? Keirnicki was a BATF stooge and said anything they told him to say.

Here's a question for you. Why did the BATF originally state that the rifle WAS NOT a machine gun when they did their first round of tests????

EXACTLY. And the answer is: the ATF couldn't have cared less about the "machine gun." It was all about the man.

Olofson was convicted of transferring a machine gun that was not manufactured by him nor possessed by the guy he transferred it to...

And that (along with a million other reasons) is why the ATF is completely and utterly full of shit in my book...

Don't leave out the judiciary that allows them to carry on with the shenanigans. Not really concerned with "justice" at all.

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:52:20 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
FUCK THE AFT

Aft? is that the back door?

Fixed: FUCK THE ATF :D

Posted: 4/21/2011 10:58:32 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.

Well, Olofson wasn't some "random citizen." He had been a thorn in the ATF's side for some time.

However, there can be little doubt that the ATF went after him.. and in the end convicted him of something that probably a great many of the people on this board would be guilty of. Why did they go after Olofson and not the rest of us? Because they didn't like him, plain and simple.

The word "conspire" accurately describes what the ATF did in this case.

The word "conspire" is the seed corn of most emotionally gratifying internet yak.

It's like the word "racism", an elastic concept that makes the books balance when the available facts don't do the job.

I'm sorry, did you have anything to offer other than "shut up" ?

Lack of facts seems to be your problem. You've wasted no time insulting me and others in this very thread, but have been just a tad light on the facts of the case.

I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. Why was Olofson not convicted of manufacturing a machine gun? Why was Keirnicki not convicted of possessing a machine gun?

Or just call me a yak again. I hear an awful lot of self-gratifying yakking coming from one guy in this thread and it ain't me.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:02:13 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

If you know your gun has a problem that makes it go full auto sometimes, maybe you should get it fixed instead of ignoring it and loaning it to strangers to use at a public range.

This..

NEVER INVITE THE MAN INTO YOUR LIFE.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:05:04 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.

Refer to the original documents. The Constitution of the United States.

That should let you know if he deserved be in jail.

TXL

Okay, we all agree that FA weapons shouldn't be banned because the Constitution says so.

Now that we've decided that issue, when are you going to start offering your Perfectly Constitutional full auto receivers that you made in your garage to the members of ARFCOM?

The really cool thing about this country, is we can specialize in pretty much anything we want, unless your an ignorant lazy bastard, then you're stuck in a union.

I can sell you some reasonably prices MW's if you want, but I am not a machinist, so I don't make or machine parts in my garage.

TXL

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:06:03 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

If you know your gun has a problem that makes it go full auto sometimes, maybe you should get it fixed instead of ignoring it and loaning it to strangers to use at a public range.

This..

NEVER INVITE THE MAN INTO YOUR LIFE.

Very true.

My wife and I were watching a special episode of "Intervention" the other night. A couple had both been arrested for selling opiates and both were out on pre trial release. They committed themselves to becoming clean and tried to empty their house of all drugs and paraphernalia. They then invited a cop in to inspect the house so he could tell the court that it was clean. Well, after 2 minutes he finds a syringe. The couple begged him to just let them throw it out, but he said he was required by law to log it into evidence.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:07:48 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
The NRA did nothing for this guy ,and i now do nothing for the NRA

There was nothing the NRA could do for him, I'am sure if you dug around in the NRA gunsafety literature you would find something about what to do if your gun malfunctions and goes full auto and I'am sure its not to continue to shoot it and loan it to your buddies to monkey fire like idiots infront of LEO's....

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:09:11 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Glad he's out but I sure wish he'd have listened to the lawyers here who told him that his defense strategy was destined to fail.

I was one of them IIRC.

And, IIRC, you got crucified for it.

I'm often crucified for posting unpopular - albeit correct - legal opinions, especially in matters of divorce and family law.

Hence my user title.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:12:34 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I believe his first "attorney" who was "assisting" had actually been disbarred. Which makes sense, because it's generally not proper for an attorney to help a non-attorney represent himself.

Also, he was spouting this kind of drivel in the beginning:

Title 18 USC sec 5 sec7 States that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT only has jurisdiction in District of Columbia, Porto Rico, Guam and insular possessions. Rule 53c of the rules of criminal procedure states that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT only has jurisdiction without the states and not within the states. PEREZ vs. US states that commerce is irrelevant. BATF is not a federal agency, they are not found in Title 31 under federal agencies.

Yeah, he seemed to be sticking to that stupid shit while failing to address stuff like the ATF's claim that the informant had to specifically request that he not drill a third hole in the reciever and convert it to an illegal machinegun.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:16:29 AM EDT

[#44]

I looked up the original thread:

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=507483

I really am not going to give an oppinion one way or the other as I just never did figure this mess out...

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:19:02 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Lack of facts seems to be your problem. You've wasted no time insulting me and others in this very thread, but have been just a tad light on the facts of the case.

There have been very few facts in this thread.

He knew his gun was malfunctioning and producing automatic fire.
He did nothing about.
He bragged to other people about it.
He loaned it out to somebody who did it at a range where LE was.

As was said before, ATF fucked him, but he sure bent over and spread 'em for them.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:22:36 AM EDT

[#46]

Right or Wrong, fair or not, there are TWO agencies you don't fuck around with when it comes to "the rules" and it's best to avoid confrontation with them at all cost...

The BATF and the IRS.

Proceed with caution...

ETA: Some of you guys act like this fella was out at the range with his factory built AR15 when it "just happened to fuck up" and all of a sudden the AFT was all over his ass like a fat man on a pizza.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:28:52 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
ETA: Some of you guys act like this fella was out at the range with his factory built AR15 when it "just happened to fuck up" and all of a sudden the AFT was all over his ass like a fat man on a pizza.

GD isn't exactly the place to get calm, well-reasoned, well-thought out responses.

Posted: 4/21/2011 11:36:42 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.

Well, Olofson wasn't some "random citizen." He had been a thorn in the ATF's side for some time.

However, there can be little doubt that the ATF went after him.. and in the end convicted him of something that probably a great many of the people on this board would be guilty of. Why did they go after Olofson and not the rest of us? Because they didn't like him, plain and simple.

The word "conspire" accurately describes what the ATF did in this case.

The word "conspire" is the seed corn of most emotionally gratifying internet yak.

It's like the word "racism", an elastic concept that makes the books balance when the available facts don't do the job.

I'm sorry, did you have anything to offer other than "shut up" ?

Lack of facts seems to be your problem. You've wasted no time insulting me and others in this very thread, but have been just a tad light on the facts of the case.

I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. Why was Olofson not convicted of manufacturing a machine gun? Why was Keirnicki not convicted of possessing a machine gun?

Or just call me a yak again. I hear an awful lot of self-gratifying yakking coming from one guy in this thread and it ain't me.

Occam's Razor says the best thing to do is select the theory that makes the fewest number of assumptions.

I'm offered two theories to pick from:

1. The conspiracy theory.

2. The stuff that his friend Kiernicki said on the complaint.

The conspiracy theory you guys are offering in this thread doesn't even match up with what Olofson said to the police.

I'll write this yet again: what his friend said to the police describes flagrantly illegal activity.

Either his friend is telling gigantic, completely untrue lies, or Olofson was doing crooked stuff.

Most of the entries in this thread are just angry speculation. Look at it, it's just random.

If the above is insulting or incoherent to you, there's nothing i can do about that.

Posted: 4/21/2011 12:09:59 PM EDT

[#49]

The man has a set of stones on him,

Since I was at the trial, I was there when the US attorney offered him a deal to make it all go away...

What was the deal you ask?

To become a confidential informant for the ATF for 24 months.

That's right he rotted in prison instead of snitching on possible members of arfcom...think about that for minute.

His politics, theories and all bullshit aside, how many folks would risk prison for his fellow man?

It's one thing to "talk the talk, another to "walk the walk".

Now a convicted felon and a parolee he most likely can not comment or even visit this board until his parole is up. In my opinion bad mouthing him is like beating the shit out someone while they are handcuffed....

Flame away if you choose, but remember, there is nothing you can do to me the ATF has not already tried!

Len Savage

Posted: 4/21/2011 12:22:00 PM EDT

[#50]

Thanks Len!

Lots of new members and we all need to remember it was one of us regardless if he had any prior knowledge that the gun would sometimes malfunction or not. I always use this example when anyone posts how cool it was when their gun started shooting doubles. It's just never 30-months in jail cool!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Prison term for 'broken gun' case ends - David Olofson released (Page 2 of 4)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us