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Posted: 8/17/2012 8:31:20 AM EDT
[#1]
From a legal perspective good shoot, really feel bad that the officers had to do that (as in killing a human being justified or not will take a toll on them), but the guy made his choice. More than likely they were hamstrung by a lack of less lethal options (i.e. Bean bag/Flexible baton rounds).
ETA: You would never find me advocating a Tazer in that situation. Have to get too close to stabby mcstabberson there. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:14:46 AM EDT
[#2]
i go ham on jive turkeys
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:26:47 AM EDT
[#3]
I would have shot him too if he told me to Go Meat!
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:28:21 AM EDT
[#4]
I think the shots while he was on the ground were excessive.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:30:29 AM EDT
[#5]
lmfao 46 shots
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:36:05 AM EDT
[#6]
An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times.
I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:36:46 AM EDT
[#7]
Why couldn't they just shoot him in the leg...
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:39:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Because 47 shots would be considered too excessive.. 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:40:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
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46 shots was it too many or not enough? 9mm? Shoot a handicap man 46 times for turning and trying to leave the scene of well whatever crime scene that was. are we reading the same article? Why what am i missing here amigo? I didn't read the arrticle just watched the fucked up video. man does not drop knife.....flees officers....gets shot till he drops knife... |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:41:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. Okay then, tell me "what other means" you would use to subdue a violent crazy man with a knife. Does it involve unicorns? |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:44:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Somewhere on YouTube there is a clip of an IMI Negev being tested in the snow and they dump over 1100 rounds through it in one burst. I need to find that video now. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:45:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. By all means, sign up for the job, then show us all how to subdue someone armed with a knife and let us know how that works out for you.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:45:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. Okay then, tell me "what other means" you would use to subdue a violent crazy man with a knife. Does it involve unicorns? Run him over with the squad car? |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:49:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I've never understood people's preoccupation with the number of shots fired. If there was reason to shoot him once, there's reason to do a mag dump. It doesn't matter. Agree, generally. However, in this vid, he appeared to be moving away from police when the firing started. And, they continued to shoot when he was on the ground. If he'd had a gun, I could understand continuing. He had a knife and was then immobile and there was no need to continue to fire. If a civilian had continued to fire into a person who was on the ground, possessing only a knife, they would be in deep shit. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:49:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow ..and he dropped And they stopped shooting. Soo.... whats wrong? |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:52:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. Okay then, tell me "what other means" you would use to subdue a violent crazy man with a knife. Does it involve unicorns? Run him over with the squad car? Maybe I should add, "without killing him" 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:53:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. Where was the taunting? And what other means are you thinking of? Remember, the "other means" actually has to be at the scene. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:54:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. How you gonna "subdue" someone who has a knife? What training do you have? Have you seen the other videos where the perp has a knife and manages to kill several people? How is pointing a gun and saying "Drop the knife" taunting? If you were one of the six, would you volunteer to be the one who gets the knife in the subclavian artery? |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:54:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Paranoid black man, wasn't there and can't see what he was moving towards, but I have a few ideas how that might have been de-escalated. Guy probably was assuming they were going to beat, shoot or sic the dog on him even if he surrendered.
Let's just say if I were there, not sure I would have been one of the cops pulling the trigger. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:54:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: An example of pack mentality. One cop opens fire on the perp, and all the robots go into auto-default..... 46 times. I'm usually an advocate for cops to be able to do their jobs without having to concern themselves with PC. Neither do I care much about the rights of perps that rape, kill, and rob my fellow citizens. But this is brainless department programming gone wild. There was enough time to subdue him via other means. But they stand their, surround him, taunt him to react, and them shoot him when he does? You mean 6 cops standing around couldn't use other means to bring him down without shooting him dead? Yea, I know.....pefect texbook procedure and sombody there will get honoraty mention on their transcript for a job well done. Okay then, tell me "what other means" you would use to subdue a violent crazy man with a knife. Does it involve unicorns? Run him over with the squad car? Unless the car has some room to pick up speed, thats not going to do much. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:55:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Paranoid black man, wasn't there and can't see what he was moving towards, but I have a few ideas how that might have been de-escalated. Guy probably was assuming they were going to beat, shoot or sic the dog on him even if he surrendered. Let's just say if I were there, not sure I would have been one of the cops pulling the trigger. Oaky, let's hear these "few ideas" |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:55:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Here's my take on it.
Homeboy should have dropped the knife when told. That's it. I can almost guarantee he would be alive today if he had simply dropped the knife and complied. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:59:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Meh, one less loudmouthed aggressive panhandler in Saginaw.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:02:20 AM EDT
[#24]
He was making a move. They had to get it on.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:05:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
"Sergeant PlaneJane, why did the men under your direction fire 46 times at this man?" "Because they ran out of ammunition?" Long live Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd.  That's what he said when his deputies shot a cop killer (guy killed a K9 deputy and his partner) 68 times.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:15:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
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Paranoid black man, wasn't there and can't see what he was moving towards, but I have a few ideas how that might have been de-escalated. Guy probably was assuming they were going to beat, shoot or sic the dog on him even if he surrendered. Let's just say if I were there, not sure I would have been one of the cops pulling the trigger. Oaky, let's hear these "few ideas" Here's a few... Although I don't have a problem with LE shooting people who are armed and refuse to comply. Back in the olden days people with "mental problems" were institutionalized but the modern highly educated progressives fixed that problem back in the 1960's - 1970's... |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:21:03 AM EDT
[#27]
Some comments here about how "I would have done it differently," but no one seems to have any good explanation how. Wonder why that is...
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:22:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Some comments here about how "I would have done it differently," but no one seems to have any good explanation how. Wonder why that is... I would have shot the fucker in the face, once, maybe twice. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:44:29 AM EDT
[#29]
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I've never understood people's preoccupation with the number of shots fired. If there was reason to shoot him once, there's reason to do a mag dump. It doesn't matter. had a guy pull a gun on an officers... officer shoots the guy in the head once killing him... people were not mad because he killed the guy but because it was a head shot...said he could have shot him in the heart as it was more humane.. golden rope and all that.. A few years ago a guy got on a plane, said he had a bomb strapped on. Somehow he gets off the plane and is standing on the tarmac up by the nose of the plane. Threatens to detonate it. Security drops him. As I live and breath, Katie Couric asked if they couldn't have just "winged him", shot him in the arm. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:46:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
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Paranoid black man, wasn't there and can't see what he was moving towards, but I have a few ideas how that might have been de-escalated. Guy probably was assuming they were going to beat, shoot or sic the dog on him even if he surrendered. Let's just say if I were there, not sure I would have been one of the cops pulling the trigger. Oaky, let's hear these "few ideas" Here's a few... Although I don't have a problem with LE shooting people who are armed and refuse to comply. Back in the olden days people with "mental problems" were institutionalized but the modern highly educated progressives fixed that problem back in the 1960's - 1970's... Do you realize one of those ways you are suggesting involves a fall out of a three story window?
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:47:59 AM EDT
[#31]
That was dumb as hell. A skilled officer might have been able to talk him down, instead of screaming at him. Verbal judo people...
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:49:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Verbal judo people... 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#33]
That looked like an execution by a Mexican firing squad.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:52:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
That was dumb as hell. A skilled officer might have been able to talk him down, instead of screaming at him. Verbal judo people... Verbal judo is for sane people. The insane need a different kind of discussion. 40mm is a better solution. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:01:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
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That was dumb as hell. A skilled officer might have been able to talk him down, instead of screaming at him. Verbal judo people... Verbal judo is for sane people. The insane need a different kind of discussion. 40mm is a better solution. When someone is emotional and upset, sticking a gun in their face and yelling at them is the exact opposite of de-escalating the situation. Pretend to empathize, act like you care what they're talking about. Tell them why they need to do what you're asking them to do. Bouncers are the masters of conflict de-escalation. I've never seen a bouncer whip out a weapon and start screaming at someone, have you? |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:08:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Did they try to tazer him or use non lethals before just having a firing squad rain down 40+ shots? Idk if its good shoot or bad shoot. A man comes at you with a deadly weapon, you don't try to taze him and hope it works. You don't want to be explaining to an officer's widow.."well...we tazed him right before he stabbed your husband and killed him...its supposed to work, only sometimes it doesn't". |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:08:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: That was dumb as hell. A skilled officer might have been able to talk him down, instead of screaming at him. Verbal judo people... Verbal judo is for sane people. The insane need a different kind of discussion. 40mm is a better solution. nice! |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:10:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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That was dumb as hell. A skilled officer might have been able to talk him down, instead of screaming at him. Verbal judo people... Verbal judo is for sane people. The insane need a different kind of discussion. 40mm is a better solution. When someone is emotional and upset, sticking a gun in their face and yelling at them is the exact opposite of de-escalating the situation. Pretend to empathize, act like you care what they're talking about. Tell them why they need to do what you're asking them to do. Bouncers are the masters of conflict de-escalation. I've never seen a bouncer whip out a weapon and start screaming at someone, have you? I dunno, if I was being an asshole and threatening people, I'm pretty sure that sticking a gun in my face would make me immediately much more cooperative. Then again, I'm not batshit crazy. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:11:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That was dumb as hell. A skilled officer might have been able to talk him down, instead of screaming at him. Verbal judo people... Verbal judo is for sane people. The insane need a different kind of discussion. 40mm is a better solution. When someone is emotional and upset, sticking a gun in their face and yelling at them is the exact opposite of de-escalating the situation. Pretend to empathize, act like you care what they're talking about. Tell them why they need to do what you're asking them to do. Bouncers are the masters of conflict de-escalation. I've never seen a bouncer whip out a weapon and start screaming at someone, have you? Bouncers have to do their job with out immunity. If you are a bar/strip club bouncer and you kill some one you are prolly going to jail. Cops... they get paid leave till it blows over. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:12:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why would anyone need a magazine with more than 10 rounds? 
Those high/normal-cap magazines held about two years worth of range practice apparently! Why would anyone practice a skill needed to save one's life to the point where they can put bullets into the center of mass from a reasonable distance under stressful conditions? 
(hint: because your life might depend on it?) I am always amazed when I see how poorly some folks are able to shoot. Unfortunately 2:10 is about as well as trained cops and soldiers shoot under stress. Only about 4% of cops practise off the clock. Even less seek out additional training other than that provided by their employer. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:12:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Waiting for video of Kilroy putting his gun away, then walking up and quietly engaging the knife swinging, agitated maniac in conversation.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:13:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
The chief is not doing himself any favors http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/16/tonight-on-ac360-police-accused-of-shooting-30-bullets-at-homeless-man/?iref=allsearch Did he really give an interview dressed like that? That video was not "graphic" as those reporters keep saying, unless those reporters think that the American public cannot stand the sound of gunfire and the sight of someone falling down edit: Whats wrong with the Chiefs clothing? is he supposed to wear a uniform 24/7? The camera crew may have caught him in an off-duty moment while seeking a comment on camera. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:13:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Bouncers are the masters of conflict de-escalation. I've never seen a bouncer whip out a weapon and start screaming at someone, have you? 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:15:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
46 shots How amny cops on scene? how many fired their weapons. Cops used to be trained to fire doubletabs. Fire two rounds and assess. Turns out two is rarely enough to stop the threat. So now they are trying really hard to deprogram the doubletap response. instead its fire 5-7 rounds and assess AKA the NSR, aka Non-Standard-Response. which is an ironic name as its becomming standard response. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:18:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
46 shots How amny cops on scene? how many fired their weapons. Cops used to be trained to fire doubletabs. Fire two rounds and assess. Turns out two is rarely enough to stop the threat. So now they are trying really hard to deprogram the doubletap response. instead its fire 5-7 rounds and assess AKA the NSR, aka Non-Standard-Response. which is an ironic name as its becomming standard response. Good point here. Training to do double taps and then assess is a good way to get yourself hurt if the first two shots don't stop the threat. You can easily end up with a guy with two bullet holes in him stabbing the shit out of you while you're "assessing". Keep shooting until the threat has ended. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:18:56 PM EDT
[#46]
How long did the shots take to fire? 2-3 seconds. By the time you decide to fire on someone and then your brain registers that you are making hits that are effective and you can now stop shooting you can very easily empty a magazine.
You shoot to stop a threat. When you have neutralized that threat, then you can stop shooting. People with mental issues do not always make good decisions and it can cost them their life. Sorry folks but that's how things are. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
How long did the shots take to fire? 2-3 seconds. By the time you decide to fire on someone and then your brain registers that you are making hits that are effective and you can now stop shooting you can very easily empty a magazine. You shoot to stop a threat. When you have neutralized that threat, then you can stop shooting. People with mental issues do not always make good decisions and it can cost them their life. Sorry folks but that's how things are. Stop talking sense on a Friday night. Some of these guys are probably already hitting the bottle. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:27:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
I think the shots while he was on the ground were excessive. I counted about 8 too many.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:29:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the shots while he was on the ground were excessive. I counted about 8 too many. Agreed. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 12:34:03 PM EDT
[#50]
If they knew he was a nut job, call in animal control to dart gun him and put him to sleep. In the video, the nut case did not appear to be threating the officers.
I was not there so I dont know everything in the situation. |
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