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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:05:49 AM EDT
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By brother in law has mild down syndrome and is getting a "b" average in college right now. He had an "a" average in highschool. If those grades are from regular classes, and not from the "special" ones held in the trailer out back, I truly weep for our education system. If you knew how genuinely stupid many of the normal people with college degrees are, you'd take no notice of that allegation. I know vast numbers of normal people with degrees who are as primitive and simple as earthworms. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:06:05 AM EDT
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Jane Lynch asks that you not used the word "retard" Very well. I shall soon de-advance the spark on my automobile. So you are saying some people are "more advanced" than others?  That is the most racist thing I have heard on Arfcom in a while.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:08:57 AM EDT
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If he can attend why shouldn't he have the ability to go to college if its paid for? You don't think college should have standards just slightly higher than retarded? I have run into some pretty damned normal downs people. In fact, if not for their appearance, I'd never have given any thought at all to those people's intellectual wattage. It is tough to judge intelligence in people with just a short conversation, especially when they have reasonably developed linguistic abilities. It is another when you put them in a situation where they have to think for themselves and they can't rely on standard responses from memory. Those kinds of judgments are a specific part of what I do for a living, and I'm pretty successful at what I do. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:14:15 AM EDT
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The Down's syndrome students are different from MANY of the "normal" students in one respect:
The ones with Down's try REALLY HARD.  Yeah...it's just a fact that the local retarded kid could literally be more interested in learning something and doing something than a "normal" kid, and often IS. It's just a damned shame, that so many people who are born with a normal body and a normal brain and a normal range of intellectual capacity simply WASTE IT, while those who were born with handicaps work hard to overcome them and sometimes end up out-achieving the first bunch. Don't talk to me about "potential". Potential that you never put into ACTION is absolutely NOTHING. "Gee, I sure bet you I could run really fast if I wanted to!" won't get you to the finish line. The tortoise that methodically plods his way across the line is the winner while the lazy rabbit is busy congratulating himself on his greatness, but forgets to actually prove it by running. I'm not politically correct. No chance of that. So I'l come out and say it: A retarded person with initiative is greater than a bright person with zero motivation. A slacker. CJ |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:15:03 AM EDT
[#5]
What kind of SAT or ACT score can someone with Down Syndrome get? Can't be high enough to meet entry requirements to any decent university or private college worth attending. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:20:02 AM EDT
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Define "retard." The community college I went to had a placement test to enter. If the subject of the thread was able to pass a placement test to enter college, why the hell not? It's like porn; you know it when you see it.  The weird kid down the street with mild autism/ Asperger's type symptoms probably doesn't fit the bill, but I have yet to meet anyone with Down's who didn't fit the old school, and popular, definition of retarded.
I think if kids with Down's are capable of earning a college diploma, we need to evaluate what that diploma means, because it sure as shit isn't celebrating higher learning. This is true, but not because of anything people with Downs are doing. Their are legions of utter and complete knuckleheaded jackasses with Bachelor's and professional degrees. People who can't recognize quotes from the Bible or Shakespeare or even FDR or the Constitution, and who are incapable of any sort of unguided reasoning routinely receive degrees based on their ability to memorize and regurgitate things that might as well be learned phonetically in Urdu. As far as I am concerned, a degree is precisely the same indicator of a person's qualification for a given job as is wearing pants to the interview: lacking either one will disqualify you from some things, but having either one doesn't qualify you for squat. Except maybe in hard sciences, degrees have no presumptive value beyond their function as irrational gatekeeping devices, a tragedy which can justly be laid at the feet of the academic and political left. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:21:10 AM EDT
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The average IQ of children with Down syndrome is around 50, compared to normal children with an IQ of 100.[5] A small number have a severe to high degree of intellectual disability.
Bell curve says some kids with down syndrome will have an IQ > 100, so they would be smarter than half the retards in this country  That would only be the case if others could have an IQ of 0 Zero is not the only thing smaller than 100. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:23:23 AM EDT
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Some of you guys are pathetic.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:25:06 AM EDT
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Who said anything about them not learning a skill? I just said if the standards are so low that anyone can pass then why even bother, it's like pee wee sports where everyone wins but worse. In my experience, a college degree means very, very little. You don't have to be intelligent to receive an education. Some of the stupidest people I know have college degrees and made good grades but that doesn't mean that they can apply anything that they've learned to real life situations. Hell, look at Obama. He went to Columbia and Harvard and he's a bumbling idiot. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:27:22 AM EDT
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My cousin is a highly functioning Down Syndrome. He's 29, and I think he's currently at a 5th or 6th grade education level. When I see him doing work, I can tell it's a challenge. He does it, and usually gets it right, but it isn't very easy for him. I can't honestly say I know how the whole school thing works for them. I know he graduated high school, I just can't figure how. I wanted to ask, but I didn't want to upset anyone. He's married and lives alone [with the wife] now (under light supervision). As far as his maturity and intelligence level, I'd say he's at about 13-15 years old. Not to be mean, but if being 29 and having the educational level of a 12 year old is "high functioning", then I also wonder what the hell they're doing at college. In dead earnest, being 29 and having the educational level of a 12 year old is as common as dirt. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:31:17 AM EDT
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Some of you guys are pathetic. Ups Syndrome. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:32:18 AM EDT
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Who said anything about them not learning a skill? I just said if the standards are so low that anyone can pass then why even bother, it's like pee wee sports where everyone wins but worse. In my experience, a college degree means very, very little. You don't have to be intelligent to receive an education. Some of the stupidest people I know have college degrees and made good grades but that doesn't mean that they can apply anything that they've learned to real life situations. Hell, look at Obama. He went to Columbia and Harvard and he's a bumbling idiot. Politics aside, he's actually a pretty good example. He has exceptional credentials but is otherwise completely ordinary - on a good day. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:38:14 AM EDT
[#13]
I believe that babies with issues this severe, when identified prior to birth, should be aborted.
It isn't a popular standpoint, and there are plenty of folks that get all butthurt thinking about it. If parents choose to bring a disabled child into the world, then they should be responsible for the increased costs of educating (or pretending to educate) it. The above does not apply to disabilities identified or manifested after birth. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:39:38 AM EDT
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Promoting infertility is one of the Planks of the Left.
Impeach Obama for the Good of the Children. 
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:44:23 AM EDT
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Skotko also found that among siblings ages 12 and older, 97 percent expressed feelings of pride about their brother or sister with Down syndrome and 88 percent were convinced they were better people because of their sibling with Down syndrome. A third study evaluating how adults with Down syndrome felt about themselves reports 99 percent responded they were happy with their lives, 97 percent liked who they are, and 96 percent liked how they looked.
What they aren't telling us is that 94% of adults with Downs Syndrome also believe that a candy bar is worth a thousand dollars, and their favorite color is Rootbeer. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:45:47 AM EDT
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This is true, but not because of anything people with Downs are doing. Their are legions of utter and complete knuckleheaded jackasses with Bachelor's and professional degrees. People who can't recognize quotes from the Bible or Shakespeare or even FDR or the Constitution, and who are incapable of any sort of unguided reasoning routinely receive degrees based on their ability to memorize and regurgitate things that might as well be learned phonetically in Urdu. As far as I am concerned, a degree is precisely the same indicator of a person's qualification for a given job as is wearing pants to the interview: lacking either one will disqualify you from some things, but having either one doesn't qualify you for squat. Except maybe in hard sciences, degrees have no presumptive value beyond their function as irrational gatekeeping devices, a tragedy which can justly be laid at the feet of the academic and political left. What I find interesting about so many college graduates these days is they completely lack in deductive reasoning and common sense. Barely smart enough to come in out of the rain as they say. The funny thing is this is exactly one condition of being "retarded". |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:10:00 AM EDT
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It isn't a popular standpoint, and there are plenty of folks that get all butthurt thinking about it. If parents choose to bring a disabled child into the world, then they should be responsible for the increased costs of educating (or pretending to educate) it. Anybody who chooses to fuck should be completely responsible for the welfare and training of whatever children result. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:24:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: It isn't a popular standpoint, and there are plenty of folks that get all butthurt thinking about it. If parents choose to bring a disabled child into the world, then they should be responsible for the increased costs of educating (or pretending to educate) it. Anybody who chooses to fuck should be completely responsible for the welfare and training of whatever children result. I agree. However, when certain conditions pop up, such as autism or a car accident or anything else that leaves the need for special attention, at no fault of the parents, I can swallow the educational system needing to provide. Hell, I spent a number of years working with such situations. But there are some folks that choose to proceed with reproduction when they know damn well the kid aint right. That is a problem. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:37:31 AM EDT
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It isn't a popular standpoint, and there are plenty of folks that get all butthurt thinking about it. If parents choose to bring a disabled child into the world, then they should be responsible for the increased costs of educating (or pretending to educate) it. Anybody who chooses to fuck should be completely responsible for the welfare and training of whatever children result. I agree. However, when certain conditions pop up, such as autism or a car accident or anything else that leaves the need for special attention, at no fault of the parents, I can swallow the educational system needing to provide. Hell, I spent a number of years working with such situations. But there are some folks that choose to proceed with reproduction when they know damn well the kid aint right. That is a problem. Not me. When you start swapping body fluids, every possibility from genius to anencephalic cypher is on the table. Your problem, not mine, and while I am often voluntarily charitable I consider it an outrage to be compelled to pay for the consequences of your decisions. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:39:50 AM EDT
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and god forbid a person with down syndrome that is semi capable of learning get a skill set and not become a drain on society Who said anything about them not learning a skill? I just said if the standards are so low that anyone can pass then why even bother, it's like pee wee sports where everyone wins but worse. They won't be able to obtain a degree in physics obviously but there are other things they can learn obviously. I would think any "(insert gender, sexuality or ethnicity) studies" degree would be handily achievable. That or journalism. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 4:16:07 PM EDT
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Define "retard." The community college I went to had a placement test to enter. If the subject of the thread was able to pass a placement test to enter college, why the hell not? It's like porn; you know it when you see it. The weird kid down the street with mild autism/ Asperger's type symptoms probably doesn't fit the bill, but I have yet to meet anyone with Down's who didn't fit the old school, and popular, definition of retarded.
I think if kids with Down's are capable of earning a college diploma, we need to evaluate what that diploma means, because it sure as shit isn't celebrating higher learning. This is true, but not because of anything people with Downs are doing. Their are legions of utter and complete knuckleheaded jackasses with Bachelor's and professional degrees. People who can't recognize quotes from the Bible or Shakespeare or even FDR or the Constitution, and who are incapable of any sort of unguided reasoning routinely receive degrees based on their ability to memorize and regurgitate things that might as well be learned phonetically in Urdu. As far as I am concerned, a degree is precisely the same indicator of a person's qualification for a given job as is wearing pants to the interview: lacking either one will disqualify you from some things, but having either one doesn't qualify you for squat. Except maybe in hard sciences, degrees have no presumptive value beyond their function as irrational gatekeeping devices, a tragedy which can justly be laid at the feet of the academic and political left. One of my friends is an elementary school teacher. She has actually asked me if The Vietnam War was before, or after WWII. She is also a die hard Democrat, because they care about the environment. I won't say which state university she went to... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 6:28:39 PM EDT
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If he can attend why shouldn't he have the ability to go to college if its paid for? You don't think college should have standards just slightly higher than retarded? You're shitting me, right? Here's a fact. I suffered two strokes when I was a baby. The doctors told my parents, when I was 10 days old, that I'd never be able to walk, talk or do anything. Guess fucking what, I went to college, and walked across the stage last May to accept my Associates. I knew quite a few people in college that had disabilities, some physical, some learning. So chew on that for a while.  That's a heck of an inspirational story.  Good job, man. Let me tell you one about someone I knew in college. She came to this country from Poland 10+ years ago. She had cerebral palsy and used crutches to get around(or a walker when it was snowy or rainy), but was able to drive and work. Her family became citizens and she graduated a year before I did. Last I heard she was going off to get a four year law degree. CP cannot be compared to Downs. CP is primarily a physical disability and the intellectual abilities are just about as wide ranging as the general population....plenty of retards. I wasn't trying to compare it at all. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 6:51:45 PM EDT
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If he can attend why shouldn't he have the ability to go to college if its paid for? You don't think college should have standards just slightly higher than retarded? You're shitting me, right? Here's a fact. I suffered two strokes when I was a baby. The doctors told my parents, when I was 10 days old, that I'd never be able to walk, talk or do anything. Guess fucking what, I went to college, and walked across the stage last May to accept my Associates. I knew quite a few people in college that had disabilities, some physical, some learning. So chew on that for a while. So hows that associates degree working out for you? Did you get a job in the field you went to school for? Any kind of job? |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:14:23 PM EDT
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If he can attend why shouldn't he have the ability to go to college if its paid for? You don't think college should have standards just slightly higher than retarded? You're shitting me, right? Here's a fact. I suffered two strokes when I was a baby. The doctors told my parents, when I was 10 days old, that I'd never be able to walk, talk or do anything. Guess fucking what, I went to college, and walked across the stage last May to accept my Associates. I knew quite a few people in college that had disabilities, some physical, some learning. So chew on that for a while. So hows that associates degree working out for you? Did you get a job in the field you went to school for? Any kind of job? No. no and no, but I'm looking.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:45:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Wow. The stupid is thick in this one. My stepbrother had downs. Drs tried telling my dad and stepmom to just institutionalize him. Really. Lock him away and foget about it. He ended up being a total asset to his community. A powerlifter and mentor to others with disabilities. But I realize that all the mental giants in this thread know whats really going on and my judgement is clouded by emotion. If you had any fucking firsthand knowledge of the sacrifices these families make to provide for these kids you would STFU with some of this nonsense. Really.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 11:38:16 PM EDT
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Wow. The stupid is thick in this one. My stepbrother had downs. Drs tried telling my dad and stepmom to just institutionalize him. Yup. My uncle Cliff (RIP) had Downs, and all the doctors at the time wanted to institutionalize him, told my grandma and grandpa to put him in a home and never have anything to do with him ever again, since he'd never amount to anything. My grandparents weren't having any of that bullshit, and they raised him just like their other son and their daughters. He worked the farm alongside his brothers and sisters, went to school, played sports, and was an asset to the community his whole life. His funeral was attended by hundreds of people, because he was a good man. So the fuck what if a university awards the kid an honorary degree? |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 3:27:40 AM EDT
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Hey is this the kind of retard that drools and rubs shit in his hair and all that, 'cause I'm gonna have a hard time eatin' 'round that kind of thing now. Just like I am with antique furniture and midgets. You know that, I can't so much as drink a damn glass of water around a midget or a piece of antique furniture. Awesome movie. Dwight Yokam was so good in that roll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx4v6iU0TxI |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:48:26 AM EDT
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My cousin is a highly functioning Down Syndrome. He's 29, and I think he's currently at a 5th or 6th grade education level. When I see him doing work, I can tell it's a challenge. He does it, and usually gets it right, but it isn't very easy for him. I can't honestly say I know how the whole school thing works for them. I know he graduated high school, I just can't figure how. I wanted to ask, but I didn't want to upset anyone. He's married and lives alone [with the wife] now (under light supervision). As far as his maturity and intelligence level, I'd say he's at about 13-15 years old. Not to be mean, but if being 29 and having the educational level of a 12 year old is "high functioning", then I also wonder what the hell they're doing at college. In dead earnest, being 29 and having the educational level of a 12 year old is as common as dirt. Fair enough, but I'd hope that our colleges and universities have higher expectations than just a 6th grade education. |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:48:50 AM EDT
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Some of you guys are pathetic. Ups Syndrome. 
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Posted: 10/2/2011 12:11:57 PM EDT
[#30]
I've worked with the special needs population for about 14 years. I've never counted but I know I've worked with well over 100 different folks. Only 1 in all that time has had Down's Syndrome. In my experience, parents are much more likely to keep their DS kids at home into adulthood. Many of my folks have horrible family backgrounds which often times is the source of the disability to begin with. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or mommy used drugs while pregnant or daddy pushed mommy down the stairs, etc. Not normal "well adjusted" loving parents who just happen to give birth to a special child.
I've lost a lot of my faith in humanity because of my job.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 12:31:32 PM EDT
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If he can attend why shouldn't he have the ability to go to college if its paid for? You don't think college should have standards just slightly higher than retarded? You're shitting me, right? Here's a fact. I suffered two strokes when I was a baby. The doctors told my parents, when I was 10 days old, that I'd never be able to walk, talk or do anything. Guess fucking what, I went to college, and walked across the stage last May to accept my Associates. I knew quite a few people in college that had disabilities, some physical, some learning. So chew on that for a while. Well said Deej....... 
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Posted: 10/2/2011 12:38:28 PM EDT
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Wow. The stupid is thick in this one. My stepbrother had downs. Drs tried telling my dad and stepmom to just institutionalize him. Really. Lock him away and foget about it. He ended up being a total asset to his community. A powerlifter and mentor to others with disabilities. But I realize that all the mental giants in this thread know whats really going on and my judgement is clouded by emotion. If you had any fucking firsthand knowledge of the sacrifices these families make to provide for these kids you would STFU with some of this nonsense. Really. Except for one person advocating aborting them I don't see anyone saying they are or can not be productive members of society or that they are some how sub human. I and others like me only questioned that if the entrance exam and standards at colleges are so low that a person with the mental capabilities of a child can pass there is something wrong. Yes people and children with Down syndrome do tend to be very nice people, yes they do tend to be very hard working and yes they should be applauded for those attributes that people of normal ability often don't possess but if schools standards are low enough or reduced enough to allow people with Downs syndrome to attend and succeed in college the whole point of higher education seems lost. |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 1:38:28 PM EDT
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Wow. The stupid is thick in this one. My stepbrother had downs. Drs tried telling my dad and stepmom to just institutionalize him. Really. Lock him away and foget about it. He ended up being a total asset to his community. A powerlifter and mentor to others with disabilities. But I realize that all the mental giants in this thread know whats really going on and my judgement is clouded by emotion. If you had any fucking firsthand knowledge of the sacrifices these families make to provide for these kids you would STFU with some of this nonsense. Really. Except for one person advocating aborting them I don't see anyone saying they are or can not be productive members of society or that they are some how sub human. I and others like me only questioned that if the entrance exam and standards at colleges are so low that a person with the mental capabilities of a child can pass there is something wrong. Yes people and children with Down syndrome do tend to be very nice people, yes they do tend to be very hard working and yes they should be applauded for those attributes that people of normal ability often don't possess but if schools standards are low enough or reduced enough to allow people with Downs syndrome to attend and succeed in college the whole point of higher education seems lost. Sorry. It had been a long day. The aborting thing got me.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 1:44:15 PM EDT
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If he can attend why shouldn't he have the ability to go to college if its paid for? You don't think college should have standards just slightly higher than retarded? They don't go to class with normal folks. They usually are in some sort of life skills program, where they work on campus at say the cafeteria and also possibly pursue some other limited classroom schooling. It's helps them and gives the education students some real world experience. At least I thinks that's how it worked at my alma mater, I didn't interact with those folks much outside of the cafeteria since I wasn't an Ed major. I'd imagine the parents like to say their kids go/went to college to make themselves feel more "normal". |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 1:53:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Once again,
She is taking community college classes and working at a hospital in a volunteer capacity as a clerk. She is NOT in COLLEGE MSNBC is referring to her as "Melissa, now 25, is successful by any measure. The college student is a speaker invited to inspire others around the country." The reality is: What is the Transition Program? The Transition Program... Is a two-year non-credit certificate program designed for students with significant learning disabilitieswho would find college level academics too challenging, even with extensive supports.Prepares students for Office and Business Support occupations through specialized coursework. Provides on-the-job training through internship placements in competitive business settings. Focuses on good work habits and personal development and communication skills. Teaches Job Seeking and Job Survival Skills. Is nationally recognized and the only program of its kind located on a community college in Massachusetts. |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 3:44:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Never mind.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 3:54:31 PM EDT
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I've worked with the special needs population for about 14 years. I've never counted but I know I've worked with well over 100 different folks. Only 1 in all that time has had Down's Syndrome. In my experience, parents are much more likely to keep their DS kids at home into adulthood. Many of my folks have horrible family backgrounds which often times is the source of the disability to begin with. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or mommy used drugs while pregnant or daddy pushed mommy down the stairs, etc. Not normal "well adjusted" loving parents who just happen to give birth to a special child. I've lost a lot of my faith in humanity because of my job. This is a common effect of work involving contact with specimens of humanity. |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 4:18:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My cousin is a highly functioning Down Syndrome. He's 29, and I think he's currently at a 5th or 6th grade education level. When I see him doing work, I can tell it's a challenge. He does it, and usually gets it right, but it isn't very easy for him. I can't honestly say I know how the whole school thing works for them. I know he graduated high school, I just can't figure how. I wanted to ask, but I didn't want to upset anyone. He's married and lives alone [with the wife] now (under light supervision). As far as his maturity and intelligence level, I'd say he's at about 13-15 years old. Not to be mean, but if being 29 and having the educational level of a 12 year old is "high functioning", then I also wonder what the hell they're doing at college. In dead earnest, being 29 and having the educational level of a 12 year old is as common as dirt. Fair enough, but I'd hope that our colleges and universities have higher expectations than just a 6th grade education. Well, here's one way of looking at it. I learned to read by the time I was 3. By 5, I was at a post-secondary level. However, I see kids that graduate high school not being able to read (at least not well). They stumble over "big" (greater than 5-letter) words, and couldn't read a high school level book to save their lives. It's absolutely pathetic. Many of these kids went on to college, and graduated THAT. |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 4:35:58 PM EDT
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and god forbid a person with down syndrome that is semi capable of learning get a skill set and not become a drain on society Who said anything about them not learning a skill? I just said if the standards are so low that anyone can pass then why even bother, it's like pee wee sports where everyone wins but worse. They won't be able to obtain a degree in physics obviously but there are other things they can learn obviously. They can get a MSW (Master's in Social Work) and go to work for a county government, distributing welfare cheese and helping the underprivileged secure the handouts that they are entitled to. Yay. Social Justice FTW. |
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Posted: 10/2/2011 5:06:08 PM EDT
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What kind of SAT or ACT score can someone with Down Syndrome get? Can't be high enough to meet entry requirements to any decent university or private college worth attending. Some colleges or universities have to accept a certain number of students who have ACT scores lower than their requirements. A good friend of mine has always struggled with school, especially when it came to math and taking tests. Her ACT score was 11, and she still got into a state university (not community college), but was on academic probation because of the details of the lower-than-required-ACT-score program or whatever it is. She struggled with college as well, but as far as I know, was not given any special treatment because of it. She took the same math class multiple times (4 or 5) before she finally passed it to fulfill the degree requirements. |
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