Oops. Local police almost get into a shoot out with local sheriff deputies during drug raid. - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Oops. Local police almost get into a shoot out with local sheriff deputies during drug raid. (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 3/27/2006 9:47:43 AM EDT

[#1]

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Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No.

Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction.

So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city.

But they could not set-up a raid in some other city in the state right? As a state sworn law enforcement officer they can arrest anytime they see a crime commited in the state but they can not conduct operations outside thier jurisdiction was my understanding.

Yes, they can conduct operations outside of their normal AO.

ETA: Again state laws vary. YMMV.

Wow. That's interesting. Learn something new every day. I'll have to ask more about that around here. I could swear the paper here was reporting on a little feud where a judge was tossing out vehicle tickets because the trap itself was being conducted outside the jurisdiction of the officers involved.

I don't know our state laws on this well so you could be dead on for all I know.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:00:27 AM EDT

[#2]

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Define "superior."

The fact is you coordinate down, not up. Should the local police have coordinated with the SD, the State Police, the FBI, the DEA and the ATF? No, that's silly.

What should happen is the agency with the larger jurisdiction should coordinate with the "lesser" jurisdictions when applicable.

In most states the county sherriff is, by statute, the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the county. He is superior to anyone in his jurisdiction. Thus while his organization may be lesser in terms of size and budget, in terms of legal power he is a five star general in his county.

Let's say that is indeed the case here. Then why wasn't he coordinating with the lesser agency? A superior coordinates the actions of lessers, not vice versa.

Part of that problem falls into the fact that the agencies are seperate entities, and, within the law, the police simply don't have to follow along with what the Sheriff sets up if they choose not to.

Another part of the problem is the fact that, whether they like it or not, the police are within the jurisdiction of the Sheriff, and with that fact, comes the responsibility of notifying the Sheriff's Office of major actions such as this.

Now, you are correct though, after the deputies are aware of the intentions of the police, I think the supreme responsibility falls to the Sheriff's Office to coordinate between the two, or to designate somebody from one of the agencies to do so.

I don't think the PD has to notify the SD. That's bassackwards of how every effective organization runs.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:04:28 AM EDT

[#3]

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Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No.

Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction.

So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city.

Really? Outside of hot pursuit? So you could be rolling in your car in a neighboring town, see someone run a stop sign and pull them over?

However, most states I have lived in that is not the case. You get your commission in a city or county and that's where your jurisdiction lies. Not outside of those borders.

What the smaller jurisdictions would do is have PD officers as reserve deputies in the SD, so they could take on duties outside the town's lines. It was very effective for coordination, small jurisdictions can get away with that better. And it gave both the city and the county a bigger bang for the taxpayers buck.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:07:07 AM EDT

[#4]

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Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No.

Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction.

So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city.

But they could not set-up a raid in some other city in the state right? As a state sworn law enforcement officer they can arrest anytime they see a crime commited in the state but they can not conduct operations outside thier jurisdiction was my understanding.

Yes, they can conduct operations outside of their normal AO.

ETA: Again state laws vary. YMMV.

Wow. That's interesting. Learn something new every day. I'll have to ask more about that around here. I could swear the paper here was reporting on a little feud where a judge was tossing out vehicle tickets because the trap itself was being conducted outside the jurisdiction of the officers involved.

I don't know our state laws on this well so you could be dead on for all I know.

Technically, yes it can be done. But I've never seen it done. I take that back. I do remember a case where I beileve the Hoover PD did a raid inside Birmingham PD's area. Caused a stink.

And normal procedure would have the SD notifying a local PD if they do a raid in their city even though the SD does not have to let them know.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:12:31 AM EDT

[#5]

They shouldve punched each other in the face!

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:20:22 AM EDT

[#6]

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Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No.

Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction.

So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city.

Really? Outside of hot pursuit? So you could be rolling in your car in a neighboring town, see someone run a stop sign and pull them over?However, most states I have lived in that is not the case. You get your commission in a city or county and that's where your jurisdiction lies. Not outside of those borders.

What the smaller jurisdictions would do is have PD officers as reserve deputies in the SD, so they could take on duties outside the town's lines. It was very effective for coordination, small jurisdictions can get away with that better. And it gave both the city and the county a bigger bang for the taxpayers buck.

Yes. But most don't, they let the local person handle it. I could write tickets in neighboring cities, you just have to put that case in their court system.

I once had a meeting at a neighboring PD's office on the way back to my city, I clocked a car at 70 or something in a 45. I stopped the car wrote the ticket and put it the case in their court. They got the fine money.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:20:49 AM EDT

[#7]

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The idiocy is in your inability to read, not in my statement. I said that LEGALLY the sherriff is superior, meaning that he is the boss, not more qualified. I find this to be a good thing because it is an extra democratic check on the system.

A sheriff is legally superior only to his deputies. The Sheriff has no jurisdiction or control over local law enforcement. He has no more authority other than a chief of police except for jurisdiction size and for state mandated duties such as running the county jail, serving certain warrants, etc. Also in Texas, city officers have county wide arrest jurisdiction, even for traffic and statewide for anything other than traffic. The only law is that must turn an arrested person over to a law enforcement agency having jurisdiction to file charges.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:27:28 AM EDT

[#8]

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Yes. But most don't, they let the local person handle it. I could write tickets in neighboring cities, you just have to put that case in their court system.

I once had a meeting at a neighboring PD's office on the way back to my city, I clocked a car at 70 or something in a 45. I stopped the car wrote the ticket and put it the case in their court. They got the fine money.

That's interesting. I described the work arounds we took. It would have been handy on a couple of occassions.

Interestingly, the University Police claimed they had state-wide jurisdiction because they were commissioned by the state, not by any of the local governments. They, BTW, did a pretty good job of coordinating with the local PD and SD. In fact, that county was pretty good about having professional officers throughout the local LE agencies.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:39:51 AM EDT

[#9]

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"Sheriff (Ken) Mascara

So when this guy runs for re-election will his campaign signs read:

Your Mascara is running again!

That's funny, right there.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:42:24 AM EDT

[#10]

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The idiocy is in your inability to read, not in my statement. I said that LEGALLY the sherriff is superior, meaning that he is the boss, not more qualified. I find this to be a good thing because it is an extra democratic check on the system.

A sheriff is legally superior only to his deputies. The Sheriff has no jurisdiction or control over local law enforcement. He has no more authority other than a chief of police except for jurisdiction size and for state mandated duties such as running the county jail, serving certain warrants, etc. Also in Texas, city officers have county wide arrest jurisdiction, even for traffic and statewide for anything other than traffic. The only law is that must turn an arrested person over to a law enforcement agency having jurisdiction to file charges.

That wouldn't surprise me. The authority is more technical than anthing I believe. I don't know specifically for Texas, but in most states the county sherriff is the chief LEO, which doesn't mean that he can order others around, but what it does mean is that if he tells the city police chief that "he is under arrest" and the city police chief says "no" the sherriff wins, but the reverse is not true. Its been too long since I heard them to find a source, but there are stories floating around of alphabet soup agencies running afoul of local sherriffs and being surprise to find themselves as the ones in jail.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:48:52 AM EDT

[#11]

Here's a tidbit for you. In my area the coroner is the only ocal person who can arrest the sheriff. Does not include state officers and feds of course.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:53:08 AM EDT

[#12]

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I think all LE agencies should coordinate with whatever local LE agencies to prevent such screw-ups. Someone could have very easily gotten killed.

Most do. This is some type of my dick is bigger than your dick deal. There is back story to all of this somewhere.

I am sure you are right, and willing to bet a fight over forfiture $$$ is part of it........

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:33:53 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
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The idiocy is in your inability to read, not in my statement. I said that LEGALLY the sherriff is superior, meaning that he is the boss, not more qualified. I find this to be a good thing because it is an extra democratic check on the system.

A sheriff is legally superior only to his deputies. The Sheriff has no jurisdiction or control over local law enforcement. He has no more authority other than a chief of police except for jurisdiction size and for state mandated duties such as running the county jail, serving certain warrants, etc. Also in Texas, city officers have county wide arrest jurisdiction, even for traffic and statewide for anything other than traffic. The only law is that must turn an arrested person over to a law enforcement agency having jurisdiction to file charges.

Exactly what he said. I've arrested sheriff's before. (DWI) Where you guys come up with this "sheriff is superior" nonsense is beyond me.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:39:38 PM EDT

[#14]

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The idiocy is in your inability to read, not in my statement. I said that LEGALLY the sherriff is superior, meaning that he is the boss, not more qualified. I find this to be a good thing because it is an extra democratic check on the system.

A sheriff is legally superior only to his deputies. The Sheriff has no jurisdiction or control over local law enforcement. He has no more authority other than a chief of police except for jurisdiction size and for state mandated duties such as running the county jail, serving certain warrants, etc. Also in Texas, city officers have county wide arrest jurisdiction, even for traffic and statewide for anything other than traffic. The only law is that must turn an arrested person over to a law enforcement agency having jurisdiction to file charges.

Exactly what he said. I've arrested sheriff's before. (DWI) Where you guys come up with this "sheriff is superior" nonsense is beyond me.

You arrested a duly elected Texas county Sheriff, while he was still in office? Or a Deputy Sheriff?

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:53:35 PM EDT

[#15]

Looks like the Cops of ARF are going toe to toe now.

Hide your dogs folks.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Oops. Local police almost get into a shoot out with local sheriff deputies during drug raid. (Page 2 of 2)

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